Discontinued Thermovape Cera
- Thread starter SameOldTim
- Start date
btka
Well-Known Member
you are right more surface is better, but i have discovered with very fine grinds, that all the herb is pressed against the sides of the core when you are drawing, hmmm it s hard to describe... at the end you have empty space in the middle of the core and all herb pressed against the wall of the core... maybe you can work arround this issue with a screen.. and press the herb down (i think there is the same problem with the ff)... if the herb is more coarse its not pushed as much against the core sides... but as i mentioned before this is all up to you techniqe so maybe if you have another draw (faster, slower) it will change the reults... my cera doesn t work otherwise i would experiment now...
OF
Well-Known Member
This has been discussed a fair bit since it first showed up with T1. I think the cause is the herb shrinks some as it heat up. I find that keeping it dry and snug but evenly packed is key. I found that opening up and peeking inside helps get a handle on things. You can dump it out and mix again, just stir it in place or just put it back together and vape on.
Moister herb behaves differently. So, in the end, I guess as the Brits would say, "suck it and see"?
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
I'd boil it in a couple inches of water for 10 minutes or so, dry it out, soak it in ISO for a while and then briefly boil again to remove the ISO (same as normal 'serious' cleaning).
If that's still not enough, do a 20-20-20 burn off (fresh battery, empty bowl, 20 seconds on, 20 off 20 times).
OF
btka
Well-Known Member
thank you for your fast reply... i have forgotten to say i have the LL cera... i asked here once if you can boil it... and as i can remember someone told me if necesary you can but on the tet info for the cera there is only recommended a dry whipe, i don t want to get troubles regarding warranty...because i soaked it in water and iso... and i can t make any burn off as the unit is not working...
With my material, warming with a lighter makes it fluff up and go a bit sticky, whereas a good grind instead keeps it dry enough to get the test puff instead of the usual vaporless drip feed.
OF
Well-Known Member
You're welcome. Normally wiping is plenty for LL cores, but the reason I didn't ask which type you had is because it doesn't matter......the materials are the same.
TV doesn't promote boiling for LL cores because some guys refuse to follow inconvenient instructions. Despite warnings not to they insist on firing up wet cores 'to dry them out', often because they're in a hurry (go figure.....). This can wreck a core with water flashing to steam inside. Then they gripe and insist on replacements. Faced with that, what would you do?
No worries, go for it.
OF
Dopapod
The Phish
Today I received my Thermovape Cera. Today is the day I finally became a man. Lol.
Here is my post after 30 minutes of using the LL. Incredible. Followed the 3 steps, and Cera did the rest. The best part was, my friend who thought I was crazy enough to get one, tried it and complete was taken back with surprise.
Really enjoying this product. Took me a while to pull the trigger. Thank you OF and everyone who put valuable input as it all helped me discover a new way to enjoy life.
Here is my post after 30 minutes of using the LL. Incredible. Followed the 3 steps, and Cera did the rest. The best part was, my friend who thought I was crazy enough to get one, tried it and complete was taken back with surprise.
Really enjoying this product. Took me a while to pull the trigger. Thank you OF and everyone who put valuable input as it all helped me discover a new way to enjoy life.
OF
Well-Known Member
You're quite welcome, glad you broke the code and got on board. I'm sure we both wish it'd been faster (you more than me of course) but that pales compared missing the boat all together (a 'better late than never' kinda deal).
One thing sure, I doubt any of us are going back any time soon.
Thanks for the update. Just in time for the Holiday.
OF
Mini Bones
Member
I have to say I bloomed late as well. Its been a few days with the LL Cera and Ive been feeling great. Not sure if it makes a difference but Im getting super light clouds... Should i be looking for thicker clouds?
OF
Well-Known Member
I don't think so, if you're happy with the results you're happy with the results......the original goal? This is sure to draw fire from the guys for whom 'big clouds' is part (or all) of the goal, of course.
IMO what you like may well change as your experience and skills grow, but I'd let that happen naturally, not rush headlong into it?
OF
caporoot
Vapor > Smoke
Well that's what I purchased mine for!.. MONSTER clouds!
Some of the review videos blew my mind and my current Persei + Herc SR-74 setup just doesn't do the job (I'm greedy). Mine should be here next week!
I have a half oz of Blue Cheese budder and an oz of Grape God x Purple Kush budder waiting for the Cera + EO!
Dopapod
The Phish
Here we are a morning later and still so happy with the LL and Cera. The taste is great, clean, and I am able to produce consistent results.
I am not sure if this helps, (I approach things somewhat more unique than others) but as I am doing Step 1, I just honestly relax, breath slow, and actually close my eyes. I am very figidy, so this helps me relax when I take these epic slow draws. That "relaxation" process makes me pull very slow. CONSISTENTLY SLOW.
I started to be a little bold and take a little bit of a faster draw after my test puff. Pretty awesome. I can feel my throat slowly taking in more smoke. Good solid hits. Not clouds, but it's cloudy lol. If that makes sense. The high is just the best. A nice body experience.
I am not sure if this helps, (I approach things somewhat more unique than others) but as I am doing Step 1, I just honestly relax, breath slow, and actually close my eyes. I am very figidy, so this helps me relax when I take these epic slow draws. That "relaxation" process makes me pull very slow. CONSISTENTLY SLOW.
I started to be a little bold and take a little bit of a faster draw after my test puff. Pretty awesome. I can feel my throat slowly taking in more smoke. Good solid hits. Not clouds, but it's cloudy lol. If that makes sense. The high is just the best. A nice body experience.
OF
Well-Known Member
Outstanding! Great idea about 'mental preparation for the upcoming hit'. Most guys, I think, get too anxious and rush step 1 and especially step 2. It's natural, trying to get to the good part, but you can easily shortchange yourself that way. IMO solid building on steps 1 and 2 sets up to expand on step 3 results. That's the place to 'get brave' for sure. You're reaping what you've sown......and good on ya.
One minor quibble, it's vapor, not smoke? Avoiding smoke was the original idea.
Thanks for the update. Looks like a memorable Memorial day is in store for you......
OF
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Patrick Hughes
Stoneman
hey, what ever happened with that water tool you were making for cera?
OF
Well-Known Member
Gentle Friends,
After all the chat about the Sony VTC5 and it's potential superiority as a battery for Cera/Luna I broke down and ordered two (minimum order from Orbtronics), which just got here. I built a little processor driven test fixture to load test:
I've modified it a bit since then (improved the holder) but you can see the load resistors (8 total) that are used. They provide a 'pretty average' Cera load of about .1.1 Ohms total. I think it's an accurate analog.
The tester checks the voltage at rest, if it's still over 3.5 Volts it applies the load for 15 seconds (representing a serious EO hit in this test). It samples the loaded voltage at 10 seconds into the cycle. It then rests the battery for 45 seconds before testing again. You can watch the voltages on the little meter or the computer. I can then cut and paste them into a spreadsheet but I'm stalled at how far to go with that and how to post the results.
More runs are needed to confirm, but right now here's what I see looking at the range from 4.1 to 3.5 Volts: The Sony battery has a slight (about 1%) advantage in loaded voltage (say .03 Volts?) at any given point. IMO quite minor and easily overcome by either the NCR1650PD or CGR18650CH with 8 or 10 fewer cycles on it. The NCR went 129 cycles, the VTC went 116 and the CGR 114.
This needs more testing to firm up, but since the VTC is brand new and the other two my kind of beat up 'test batteries' I expect the modest difference to get smaller.
I've no doubt these guys have amazing capacity at very high currents, we just can't take advantage of that and. It would seem the NCR might offer a better compromise for us, giving over 10% more hits per charge?
OF
After all the chat about the Sony VTC5 and it's potential superiority as a battery for Cera/Luna I broke down and ordered two (minimum order from Orbtronics), which just got here. I built a little processor driven test fixture to load test:
I've modified it a bit since then (improved the holder) but you can see the load resistors (8 total) that are used. They provide a 'pretty average' Cera load of about .1.1 Ohms total. I think it's an accurate analog.
The tester checks the voltage at rest, if it's still over 3.5 Volts it applies the load for 15 seconds (representing a serious EO hit in this test). It samples the loaded voltage at 10 seconds into the cycle. It then rests the battery for 45 seconds before testing again. You can watch the voltages on the little meter or the computer. I can then cut and paste them into a spreadsheet but I'm stalled at how far to go with that and how to post the results.
More runs are needed to confirm, but right now here's what I see looking at the range from 4.1 to 3.5 Volts: The Sony battery has a slight (about 1%) advantage in loaded voltage (say .03 Volts?) at any given point. IMO quite minor and easily overcome by either the NCR1650PD or CGR18650CH with 8 or 10 fewer cycles on it. The NCR went 129 cycles, the VTC went 116 and the CGR 114.
This needs more testing to firm up, but since the VTC is brand new and the other two my kind of beat up 'test batteries' I expect the modest difference to get smaller.
I've no doubt these guys have amazing capacity at very high currents, we just can't take advantage of that and. It would seem the NCR might offer a better compromise for us, giving over 10% more hits per charge?
OF
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
Not a super benefit with an oil/liquid core and the test parameters (nor should one be expected, and I am NOT implying that the test parameters are improperly designed for oil/liquid cores). I would put a half dozen charge discharge cycles on the new cells before testing them as well...
I think a test simulating typical LL core usage might show a greater benefit. Oh, and there are a couple of new cells showing up, so your work, now that you've started, is just beginning.
Oh, and what gauge wire are you currently using between your new battery holder and the test rig? It's hard to tell from the picture, but I wouldn't want to be using less than 18gauge wire. (Not that it will make much difference between different batteries, but it will make a difference in the absolute voltage getting to the test circuit).
I think a test simulating typical LL core usage might show a greater benefit. Oh, and there are a couple of new cells showing up, so your work, now that you've started, is just beginning.
Oh, and what gauge wire are you currently using between your new battery holder and the test rig? It's hard to tell from the picture, but I wouldn't want to be using less than 18gauge wire. (Not that it will make much difference between different batteries, but it will make a difference in the absolute voltage getting to the test circuit).
OF
Well-Known Member
I think a test simulating typical LL core usage might show a greater benefit. Oh, and there are a couple of new cells showing up, so your work, now that you've started, is just beginning.
Oh, and what gauge wire are you currently using between your new battery holder and the test rig? It's hard to tell from the picture, but I wouldn't want to be using less than 18gauge wire. (Not that it will make much difference between different batteries, but it will make a difference in the absolute voltage getting to the test circuit).
What timing do you suggest for LL testing? While it may indeed show a bigger difference in battery performance with longer discharges, I think the effect as a user will be much harder to detect. I base this on Beta testing different cart powers. A few Watts change in an EO cart is easy to spot, not so an even larger change in LL power. At least to me. As long as you can saturate the core at step 1 you can make good vapor, lower power just takes longer to get there. I think most owners kind of pick that up?
I'm currently running 20 gauge, IMO totally appropriate for the 'just under four Amps'. In fact, I think I've cut it back too far, losses in my rig are under those in Cera I think. Typical drops under load total about .25 Volts, I typically see closer to .4 in Cera? I cut it back to make the Ri of the battery more apparent. The difference between types is on the order of .01 Ohms it seems, not very much IMO. Not worth giving up 10% capacity for.
I've no intention of getting into the battery testing business. My goal is to get some useable relative value information out for folks to base decisions on. Right now I cannot recommend buying the Sony batteries as replacements and expecting better performance, let alone radically better. I seriously doubt anyone can tell the difference in a proper 'blind test'. When the ones you have pack in they might be an advantage, but objective testing seems to indicate 'save your money' is the best advice otherwise?
TIA for LL timing suggestions, anyone else have one to offer?
OF
PDwasmy1st
Well-Known Member
I am not sure why this is so expensive still (not getting the battery in with the price is a no no for me) is it selling well then? is it better than the rest of the portables?
OF
Well-Known Member
We've been through this a lot, but not for a while I guess. The short answers are, I think, it doesn't come with battery or charger because WE ASKED FOR IT TO BE OFFERED THAT WAY. Many/most already had such batteries and chargers.
The manufacturing costs are high (perhaps higher than any other vape?) due to using unique materials (like the Zirconnia in the body) and extensive use of 'made in US' materials and labor. These combine to make the cost so high that TV doesn't discount them to Dealers, limiting sales.
It's definitely not a 'run of the mill' effort. IMO it's a specialty vape, for those who appreciate such things and can/are willing to pay for it.......definitely not 'everyman's vape'. IMO units like Solo come far closer to that. I think most Cera buyers have experience and expectations behind their purchase, and generally are very satisfied with it?
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
Depending on what (and often more importantly how much) is loaded yes and no (on the same cart, under the same conditions).
I think most guys tend to load too much to get optimum performance (at least as I see performance). Ideally the surface of the ceramic is moist where it faces the heater, but not too saturated. A heavy load improves heat conduction away from the surface, preventing (or slowing a lot) production of vapor. Eventually the entire reservoir will heat up enough of course but the mass of concentrate alone slows that down. Revolution/DART shows this, but not as much I think since the reservoir is so much smaller there. The "load small and often" mantra continues here?
Heat is transferred to the reservoir by radiation mostly, it's a surface thing. If the heat transfer is high enough and the conduction 'drain' on the heat low enough we flash concentrate right there on the surface (rather than from the entire mass later on). This is not only faster but prevents 'cooking' the goods over and over before it's finally vaped off, keeping it 'fresher' I think.
I suggest trying loading it 'leaner'?
Good luck with it, but I think most owners agree that under the right conditions Cera EO produces solid vapor in 15 seconds or less.....and most often less?
OF
Czechyourhead
Well-Known Member
I consistently get vapor after 10 seconds from my Cera. I never need to preheat 15 sec. I've been using a rebuild core for 4 months (vapor production was down a little before rebuild but that was after solid 10 months of use, and a lot of lower quality co2 oil & wax). I've stayed away from waxes and such, and have only needed to clean the core 1 in the last 4 months. If my vapor production is on the light side, it's either the battery or time for a refill. Although like OF mentioned, over-filling will delay vapor production. IMO less>more. I definitely think trying .5 refills is on the heavy side. I add maybe .2 each time. Also cuts down on the mess on the ceramic mp.
Are you using co2 oil, or BHO ? I know that butane related concentrates seemed to take a little longer (and gunk things up faster). I won't put BHO in my cera.