Discontinued Thermovape Cera

kushcabbage

kushcabbage

vapor nerd
mephisto said:
There seems to be quite the waiting period for rebuilds in re to the Cera EO carts. Its been 3 weeks since my carts were to be rebuilt and still waiting.....Glad I still have the Dart(s) to tide me over.
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I ordered a luna on april 3, and was told a lot of orders were on hold due to a delay on the silver plater. Longing for the day to get a shipping notice, I've never tried the eo core. Same here brother sipping on my dart too,cheers
 
kushcabbage,
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btka

btka

Well-Known Member
Mynameismud said:
@Cerapops You definitely do not want to use NiCd or NiMH batteries...

There are 3 recommended batteries for the cera.

1) the Panasonic CGR18650CH 2250 mah batteries. These have a quicker heat up time but dont last as long. They were also discontinued so might have trouble finding them.
2) panasonic NCR18650PD or NCR18650PF 2900 mah batteries. These are the ones the currently sell.
3) the sony 18650VTC4 The battery is supposedly the best for LL.


You dont need to get them from TV but i would stick with those 3 for best results
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i want to buy batteries (i am using cera LL) but tet recommends protectet batteries... and the sony batteries you recommend i only found unprotectet... I have to say i don t know the difference from protected and unprotected... can maybe some one tell me... thanks... and can you use also the new sony vtc5... i am from europe can you recommend me also where to order...
 
btka,
Mynameismud

Mynameismud

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
btka said:
i want to buy batteries (i am using cera LL) but tet recommends protectet batteries... and the sony batteries you recommend i only found unprotectet... I have to say i don t know the difference from protected and unprotected... can maybe some one tell me... thanks... and can you use also the new sony vtc5... i am from europe can you recommend me also where to order...
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I could be wrong, but both the cgr18650ch and Ncr 18650pdPanasonic batteries they recommend and sold for the cera are unprotected.
 
Mynameismud,
btka

btka

Well-Known Member
the battery i got with my cera from tet is ncr18650pf and is protected... hmmm... what does protected unprotected mean---
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
btka said:
the battery i got with my cera from tet is ncr18650pf and is protected... hmmm... what does protected unprotected mean---
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Protected ones have a circuit board included (usually on the top or bottom under the wrap) to protect the battery from over charging (shouldn't be an issue for this application since the charger hopefully stops the charge in time.....) but critical perhaps is protection from too much discharge. Take the basic battery under 2.5 Volts, even once, and it's toast. The protection circuit disconnects it to prevent this. Without the circuit you could easily push one 'running a little cold' over the edge to 'useless forever land'.

This is for Li-ions. IMRs, generally, don't need this protection, they usually come back from a deep discharge fine (don't short one, or drive it to zero Volts though).

All the Beat test batteries I was given have boards except one that turned out to be and IMR and one that was a 'never used' custom battery that was supposed to have the PCB added 'stateside'. I've marked that one well and tend to pull it out and recharge early.

I'd stick with protected batteries, hard to go wrong with the specific ones TV recommends.

OF
 
nopartofme

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
I just realized that the new EL cart has four extra intake holes around the middle of the cart, just below the second o-ring from the top. Very interesting. I think the cart is also very slightly (1 or 2mm) taller than any of the other Cera carts, as the ceramic mouthpiece doesn't sit flush against the body. That leaves an air path open for those extra vent holes. Clever.

I'm not sure how to take advantage of the advertised 'reservoir' inside this cart. TET's website advertises 4 times the capacity of the old cart, but it doesn't take more than 2 or 3 drops for me to start hearing a gurgling sound when I draw, even when I space out the drops. Maybe the oil usage that this cart saw has blocked off more than I thought?

On the upside, I've yet to see any juice come out the bottom of the cart when I hear that gurgling sound.
 
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R

Ricardooayee

Active Member
nopartofme said:
I just realized that the new EL cart has four extra intake holes around the middle of the cart, just below the second o-ring from the top. Very interesting. I think the cart is also very slightly (1 or 2mm) taller than any of the other Cera carts, as the ceramic mouthpiece doesn't sit flush against the body. That leaves an air path open for those extra vent holes. Clever.

I'm not sure how to take advantage of the advertised 'reservoir' inside this cart. TET's website advertises 4 times the capacity of the old cart, but it doesn't take more than 2 or 3 drops for me to start hearing a gurgling sound when I draw, even when I space out the drops. Maybe the oil usage that this cart saw has blocked off more than I thought?

On the upside, I've yet to see any juice come out the bottom of the cart when I hear that gurgling sound.
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I think the oil may have done something but I didn't even get to run more than about .8 through it. I kept using my herc lol. I also tried using it for ejuice when I first got it but like you said I only put about 2 drops and I could hear bubbling.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
Ricardooayee said:
I think the oil may have done something but I didn't even get to run more than about .8 through it. I kept using my herc lol. I also tried using it for ejuice when I first got it but like you said I only put about 2 drops and I could hear bubbling.
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I'm not so sure about that 'oil and water' thing? Isn't the classic problem with using e-cigs to dispense THC leaden oils the fact that the normal e-cig bases 'separate out'? My bet is it's kind of a surface tension thing, like water beading up on wax paper. You can put pin holes in the paper (like the pores in the ceramic) but the water drops won't go through them.......

Consider oil cloth.

Have you tried a serious boil and soak routine to try to get as much as possible out? Followed by a couple 20/20/20 burns maybe.

Hopefully it doesn't need a rebuild, but that would for sure make it 'good as new'.

Good luck with it.

OF
 
nopartofme

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
Well I gave the EL a real thorough cleaning, multiple boils and ISO soaks.

I made the mistake of finishing with ISO before the 20/20/20, rather than boiling a final time and then drying in the oven beforehand. I figured that going through the 20/20/20 would get the rest of the ISO out real easy, being careful to do it with ventilation to deal with ISO fumes.

It seemed to go well. It stopped sizzling after a little while and I then counted the 20 cycles from there so that it got the proper dry burn treatment. Afterward the ceramic looked a shade grayer than black in some parts. I figured it might not be a bad idea to do a final boil to get rid of anything that I had burnt up and possibly separated from the ceramic.

That's when I realized the cart was stuck! I think it might have had to do something with the fact that I placed an o-ring on the bottom rung, where there hadn't been one before. I'd thought there was an o-ring missing, but maybe there shouldn't have been one there in the first place? It required just a bit more effort to get it to screw in at the time, and now it's stuck in good.

My initial attempts at twisting ended with the o-rings spinning in place under my hand, so I took it off. That's when I discovered that the o-ring slots have a bit of an edge to them; I managed to scrape my skin while trying to unscrew the thing.

Frustrated, I decided to fire it up with some juice to see if it would perform better after all that. It seemed to soak in marginally better. The first drop just sat on top of the ceramic at first. I gave it some pulses of heat and I think that's what helped it in. I'd think e-juice would have an easier time soaking into the ceramic than that, but it is pure VG so it's thicker than your average PG juice.

After getting two drops in (and missing with the third, hit the metal rim at the bottom instead, which the juice just seems to cling to…), I went to give it a pull and was surprised to be met with restriction. No air was coming through. I gave it a harder pull and discovered the taste of ISO fumes in my mouth. There's still some in the damn thing, after well over 20 cycles of 20/20!

I really botched it up in the home stretch, very embarrassing. And the cart is still stuck. I did a search here and all I could find was someone managing to get a cart out by torching the ceramic where the cart screws in. Unfortunately I don't have a torch… Any other ideas?
 
nopartofme,
Quetzalcoatl

Quetzalcoatl

DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
nopartofme said:
Well I gave the EL a real thorough cleaning, multiple boils and ISO soaks.

I made the mistake of finishing with ISO before the 20/20/20, rather than boiling a final time and then drying in the oven beforehand. I figured that going through the 20/20/20 would get the rest of the ISO out real easy, being careful to do it with ventilation to deal with ISO fumes.

It seemed to go well. It stopped sizzling after a little while and I then counted the 20 cycles from there so that it got the proper dry burn treatment. Afterward the ceramic looked a shade grayer than black in some parts. I figured it might not be a bad idea to do a final boil to get rid of anything that I had burnt up and possibly separated from the ceramic.

That's when I realized the cart was stuck! I think it might have had to do something with the fact that I placed an o-ring on the bottom rung, where there hadn't been one before. I'd thought there was an o-ring missing, but maybe there shouldn't have been one there in the first place? It required just a bit more effort to get it to screw in at the time, and now it's stuck in good.

My initial attempts at twisting ended with the o-rings spinning in place under my hand, so I took it off. That's when I discovered that the o-ring slots have a bit of an edge to them; I managed to scrape my skin while trying to unscrew the thing.

Frustrated, I decided to fire it up with some juice to see if it would perform better after all that. It seemed to soak in marginally better. The first drop just sat on top of the ceramic at first. I gave it some pulses of heat and I think that's what helped it in. I'd think e-juice would have an easier time soaking into the ceramic than that, but it is pure VG so it's thicker than your average PG juice.

After getting two drops in (and missing with the third, hit the metal rim at the bottom instead, which the juice just seems to cling to…), I went to give it a pull and was surprised to be met with restriction. No air was coming through. I gave it a harder pull and discovered the taste of ISO fumes in my mouth. There's still some in the damn thing, after well over 20 cycles of 20/20!

I really botched it up in the home stretch, very embarrassing. And the cart is still stuck. I did a search here and all I could find was someone managing to get a cart out by torching the ceramic where the cart screws in. Unfortunately I don't have a torch… Any other ideas?
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Let it cool down, seems like metal might have expanded a bit?

Maybe a rebuild too? If you cleaned it and it plugged the airflow it's probably still not clean.
 
Quetzalcoatl,
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OF

OF

Well-Known Member
nopartofme said:
And the cart is still stuck.

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...

Once again the Q man is there with first rate advice at bargain prices. Try cold, but I doubt it. My guess is it's now glued in pretty well since it was 'wet' with slightly oil contaminated ISO. This spread the oil into a very thin layer in the threads (thinner than otherwise possible) then hardened it in place. It should not sizzle at all, it's supposed to be dry before you start and water used last means you don't have a solvent thinning the oil out and carrying it into the threads.

My bet is it's not going to come out unless it's hot, but I'd try cold first (it's easier).

Wrap several largish rubber bands around the cart body above the tube, it will improve your 'grip' on it a LOT. On really though ones I've used rubber bands on the body as well when it started turning.

A red o-ring belongs on the bottom no matter, it seals things. The black ones aren't up to the heat I think. If it's black, that could be a problem.

Worst case, box it up and send it in, TV can set it right when they rebuild the cart. They have torches and know how to do it without goofing up the ground strap.......and have the parts to fix it if they do.

Good luck.

OF
 
nopartofme

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
Thanks much, guys. A little objective reason is an invaluable resource when frustration hits. It really helps to "hear your voices" around here (hearing voices, hmm…) in a time like that.

I didn't think I had any big rubber bands around but I went digging through some drawers anyways and… Eureka! I managed to get the cart out while it was cold.

That black o-ring I put at the bottom was toast (torn). I'm not sure about the idea regarding ISO-dissolved oil gumming up in the threads, since I soaked and boiled the cart until the ISO came out clean looking twice over. I'm thinking the o-ring shifted out of place while I screwed it in, and jammed it up? These o-rings are faaar more pliable than the red ones I'm familiar with. They can easily be removed simply by squeezing them around the cart until a little arch sticks out that I can grab onto. I'd never be able to manage that with the usual red ones.

Unfortunately I'm out of replacement o-rings after repeatedly goofing up while removing the ones from my LL cart. I'll be ordering a replacement set or two from TET in short order.

I've got the cart in for a boil right now, after which I'll give it a (hopefully final) ISO soak, check the color of the ISO, boil it, and then throw it in oven for a go at 300º on the convection setting (wish I had a toaster oven). After that I figure I'll give it the 20/20/20 again, seeing as it clearly wasn't really dry the first time?

Thanks again.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
nopartofme said:
and then throw it in oven for a go at 300º on the convection setting (wish I had a toaster oven).
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Glad to hear you're getting it sorted out, but check your fire on that "go at 300' degree stuff. That's WAY TOO HOT!!! Has anyone ever recommended that high before? They definitely should not have IMO. And more importantly in the opinion of the maker:

"*Do not to force dry using ovens or internal heating element, as this may damage the heating element."

http://static.squarespace.com/static/50a81e35e4b05bdedbd6e621/t/52211ebce4b0db0027e74b7d/1377902268644/User manual .pdf

Cores have been wrecked this way. Boil a tiny drop of water to steam inside the ceramic and it's very likely to crack, it's mostly open holes and very fragile.

My advice is to follow the instructions and not put it in an oven.......and for sure not at such a high temperature when it's wet deep inside.

OF
 
Severmore

Severmore

Well-Known Member
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nopartofme

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
OF said:
Glad to hear you're getting it sorted out, but check your fire on that "go at 300' degree stuff. That's WAY TOO HOT!!! Has anyone ever recommended that high before? They definitely should not have IMO. And more importantly in the opinion of the maker:

"*Do not to force dry using ovens or internal heating element, as this may damage the heating element."

http://static.squarespace.com/static/50a81e35e4b05bdedbd6e621/t/52211ebce4b0db0027e74b7d/1377902268644/User manual .pdf

Cores have been wrecked this way. Boil a tiny drop of water to steam inside the ceramic and it's very likely to crack, it's mostly open holes and very fragile.

My advice is to follow the instructions and not put it in an oven.......and for sure not at such a high temperature when it's wet deep inside.

OF
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Just in time! The oven was heating up as I read your post. Guess I'll just be leaving it out on some paper for a while?

Hopefully my little bout of drying (some) of the ISO out with the heating element last night didn't do any damage.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
nopartofme said:
Just in time! The oven was heating up as I read your post. Guess I'll just be leaving it out on some paper for a while?
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That should do just fine. I put mine on top of the router where it's warm and has lots of airflow. I generally clean in the evening and it's ready to go the next morning.

FWIW, I also think it dries faster laid on it's side.

OF
 
nopartofme

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
Does anyone know if pulsing heat to get pure vegetable glycerine to soak into the ceramic is a 'common thing'? I know it's surely common for cannabis oils, but I expected e-juice to be less temperamental. If it's normal then that's no issue, I'm just trying to gauge if it's a sign of fouled ceramic or not.

Either way, I've got some PG-based juice on the way so I'll get to see how that handles.

I've got the cart laying on its side on my router for now; gonna wait 'til morning to check in on it. I'm going 'by the book' on this one…
 
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nopartofme

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
It's looking good, friends. It took only the barest pulses (and only about 2 at that) to get the VG to soak in this time, and I managed to get 4 drops in there (I read somewhere on TET's site that they recommend only 3-4 drops at a time) without any gurgling going on. Also, though I'm not 100% sure how much of this is me coming back to it after returning to snus for 2 days while getting this cleaning sorted out, it really seems to be hitting harder, quicker, and more flavorfully!

The only thing I'm not too keen on with this cart is that metal rim at the bottom, just above the ceramic plate. It would be awesome if it was sloped instead of level, to make missing with the drops (and holding the Cera dead vertically while filling) more of a non-issue. I think the PG-based juice will help there, presumably being less clingy on the metal due to its lower viscosity.

Success.
 
stickstones

stickstones

Vapor concierge
I just had what I consider to be my first good session with the Cera...only three sessions in. I thought the taste/feel was just a little bit harsh, but miraculously smooth if you consider the shortness of the air path. I had good success with the three step method...thanks! Once it is up to heat can I hit it hard, or do you guys find it gets overwhelmed? I was keeping it at a slow sip to get thick hits.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
stickstones said:
I had good success with the three step method...thanks! Once it is up to heat can I hit it hard, or do you guys find it gets overwhelmed? I was keeping it at a slow sip to get thick hits.
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Great! Glad to hear you've broken the code, thanks for passing the good word.

I too find you can honk on it at step 3 with good results. I think the key here is really in step 2. If you can control the heat well you'll have plenty still stored in the core when you make magic temperature to support LOTS of vapor production. They had to tweak the design to get there using less power than T1(which can replace heat at a faster rate), but if you do step 2 well you should be Jake on 3.

You know the old joke about 'How do I get to Carnegie Hall?' "Practice, practice, practice". Time to get to practicing Brother Stones.......

Best wishes.

OF
 
darkrom

darkrom

Great Scott!
Yeah really @stickstones you made it through the hard part. Post a pic of your loaded bowl before you vape if you can. I find better vapor less full. Its hard getting out of those conduction ways of pack the thing crazy.

Its got its own draw speed. You almost have to draw what I'd describe as "forceful, consistent but not fast."

I've gotten crazy clouds out of my cera. It is coming back from rebuild soon, just got shipping notification today. I got it when it was brand new, so $50 to have both carts, the handle, the switch...EVERYTHING rebuilt is a good deal to me.

I bet anything I fall back in love with it.
 
stickstones

stickstones

Vapor concierge
Thanks @darkrom -- I just had a fourth session that was underwhelming, but it was with a different battery. I've got seven batteries, so I'm sure I'll find several I favor.

If you don't get the hang of that Vap2 in the next couple of sessions I'll have to return the favor!
 
darkrom

darkrom

Great Scott!
Which batteries do you have? I was having issues with the sony one, but I think it was because it has a flat top, and it seemed to not make good contact.

I swear I've made a thick fog in a parked car with the cera before. One little tiny bowl and I could barely find the handles LOL..
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
darkrom said:
I swear I've made a thick fog in a parked car with the cera before. One little tiny bowl and I could barely find the handles LOL..
Click to expand...

So you know it's possible, the trick is to get back into that groove long enough for it to become routine?

Most top end batteries should do fine (especially when freshly charged), I'd spend some time watching the core come up, perhaps you're shorting step 1 so there's not enough stored heat at the end of step 2? I think it's important, at least at first, to not rush from step to step. Treat each one a a project itself.

OF
 
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