Why do millions love vapes, but some hate them ?

From the article:

"The results also showed similar effects of WP smoking and deep inspiration of cigarette smoke on respiratory status, which is another important finding from the present study. These findings indicate that the beliefs of most users, and even physicians, regarding the filtering of toxic components of tobacco smoke by water and the less harmful effects of this type of smoking compared with cigarette smoking,6–8should be changed. In fact, several studies have reported the effects of WP smoke on pulmonary function,9,13–15 small airways function16and the tonicity of the bronchial tree;17 however, this is the first report indicating a similar effect of WP smoking to deep inspiration of cigarette smoke."

These findings may apply to cannabis as well, but until that study is done there's no reason to assume that they do. Also, the water pipes referred to in the study were hookahs (narghile), which are heated by a hunk of burning charcoal on top of the bowl. Any additional nastiness found in the WP smoke could have come from that

Good points, but even if you don't take those things into consideration, I still don't understand how you can infer that "smoking though water is actually less healthy then a joint" from that article, even if you were just talking about tobacco for the article states that they are on parity, not that water filtration is more toxic than non-water filtration.

So when you say, DBW, that "i dont make crap up", in this particular instance, I think you did, or at best, misunderstood the findings of the article.

Sometimes omission is the greater sin.

lwien said:

Good points, but even if you don't take those things into consideration, I still don't understand how you can infer that "smoking though water is actually less healthy then a joint" from that article, even if you were just talking about tobacco for the article states that they are on parity, not that water filtration is more toxic than non-water filtration.

So when you say, DBW, that "i dont make crap up", in this particular instance, I think you did, or at best, misunderstood the findings of the article.

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http://voices.yahoo.com/do-bongs-really-filter-marijuana-smoke-180405.html

lwien said:

I read your link (not quite sure I understand it all) but from what I do understand, I don't see the above link supporting your statement that, "smoking though water is actually less healthy then a joint".

Secondly, when a mod asks for qualification to substantiate anything that you may say, he/she is NOT implying that you are making anything up but rather, just asking for clarification. And it's not just the mods here that do that, but members here as well, so if you want to make your stay here a bit more enjoyable, you may want to get used to being challenged. It's kinda what this site is all about. Just thank your lucky stars that you're not a manufacturer.

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i got no problem be challenged.. i only mentioned what i had read.. you might want to send them a msg and tell them they are misunderstood or full of crap .. and my stay here is just fine so far.. brush up on your reading dude..

I may have missed someone's point completely,but bong vs joint....
With a joint your also smoking bleached paper,or rice paper,or hemp paper,flavorings,or un-bleached paper.....

Let's avoid the paper all together

Converting someone from smoking to vaping (at least in my experience) can be difficult just because of the stimuli associated with smoking vs. vaping. Smoking gives the user the visual/sensational queues that they are getting medicated, at least from their brain's perspective. "Oh look! Thick clouds and the sensation of burning and tingling in my throat, lungs. I'm about to get high." Whereas when you allow a smoker to hit your vaporizer, they are most likely already thinking, "wow this thing gives light wispy hits, I must not be getting high." And I think this kind of mindset going into it gives the user no reason to continue vaping in their eyes.
If smokers would just give it a shot, I think they'd really enjoy this wonderful invention.

DirtyBongWater said:

http://voices.yahoo.com/do-bongs-really-filter-marijuana-smoke-180405.html


i got no problem be challenged.. i only mentioned what i had read.. you might want to send them a msg and tell them they are misunderstood or full of crap .. and my stay here is just fine so far.. brush up on your reading dude..

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Disclaimer: I am not the moderator you said might be full of crap, nor am I the one who gave you a point for saying that. I just want to clear something up.

This is a great example of reading something someone else said, taking it as being correct, and then repeating it without understanding what you're saying or doing the homework to find the truth of the matter. It is always wise to investigate when dealing with something that contradicts conventional wisdom. Your Yahoo reference draws incorrect conclusions from the NORML/MAPS study, which is much better summarized in the article The California NORML/MAPS Smoking Device Study by Dale Gieringer. He writes:

Surprisingly, the unfiltered joint outperformed all devices except the vaporizers, with a ratio of about 1 part cannabinoids to 13 parts tar. This disturbingly poor ratio may be explained by the low potency of the NIDA-supplied marijuana used in the study, which was around 2.3%.

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Notice that he casts doubt on the outcome due to the quality of the cannabis. The reason for this is that the study only considered the ratio of tars to THC, which would obviously be affected by low quality cannabis. It is not justified to conclude that therefor bongs are less healthy than joints, since there are many other unhealthy products of combustion that aren't taken into account.

i agree.. i am sorry..i may have been misunderstood.. i only ment to share what i have read..for years i also thought water was a great filter..just not nearly as good as i was under the impression..and yes it does remove some things being filtered,,but not a considerable about as i once thought..now my question being,, if vaped through a bong does it just cool? because there would be nothing bad for it to remove ,,right? and to lwien .. i am very sorry..did'nt mean to get off on the wrong foot..i only ment to help ,,but came off wrong.. (peace) and gr8 vaping

DirtyBongWater said:

i agree.. i am sorry..i may have been misunderstood.. i only ment to share what i have read..for years i also thought water was a great filter..just not nearly as good as i was under the impression..and yes it does remove some things being filtered,,but not a considerable about as i once thought..now my question being,, if vaped through a bong does it just cool? because there would be nothing bad for it to remove ,,right? and to lwien .. i am very sorry..did'nt mean to get off on the wrong foot..i only ment to help ,,but came off wrong.. (peace) and gr8 vaping

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There is still particulate in vapour. The amount depends on the temperature you use, with higher temperatures producing more particles. People who vapourize through water devices still find the water getting dirty.

DirtyBongWater said:

...if vaped through a bong does it just cool?

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For me, the even more important thing when vaping through water is that it moisturizes. I only vape through very warm, almost hot water, to increase that moisturizing affect.

DirtyBongWater said:

and to lwien .. i am very sorry..did'nt mean to get off on the wrong foot..i only ment to help ,,but came off wrong.. (peace) and gr8 vaping

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We're good.....

lwien said:

For me, the even more important thing when vaping through water is that it moisturizes. I only vape through very warm, almost hot water, to increase that moisturizing affect.

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Since only vaping reg for a week..i have noticed a dryness ( still not as bad as mung mouth) lol . i am trying to figure a way to and how i would hook up this style vape , to one of my water pipes also i have to say i am hooked on vaping..i love it hehehe ..

mod note: Please take care to place your response outside the QUOTE tags. Fixed.

In regard to the original question, we dealt with this a lot when we started. Nobody knew what a vaporizer was or that they needed it. I think a lot of people don't vape because they feel it 1) adds complication 2) is a weak hit and waste of time and 3) doesn't give the satisfaction of smoking. We got past a lot of this reluctance by plowing vapor hits into people until they couldn't help but see its powerful effects. Eventually they realized the longer lasting high, easy come-down, extraordinary taste, useful byproducts etc that seals the deal.

Regarding complication, I've seen people reject the notion of handling a tricky machine & easily broken components. Many non-technical people don't want to be juggling analytical thoughts at the moment they just want to chill. If we can get them over the learning curve and stuff becomes automatic so this is less of an issue. But if the vaporizer gets dirty&clogged or something breaks or goes missing... we lose people back to smoking.

About vapor being weaker, all of us pros KNOW this is not the case. We can get huge hits and impress anyone. But when a person is just starting out on their own, they might get really lame hits and never want to try again.

As for satisfaction- this is just my opinion until i can get some corroboration- but it's all about varying the vaping temperatures and letting the herb experience a high temperature for at least part of the rip. All the focus on setting specific temperatures to extract THC discounts all the other components that make a well rounded head space. The best temperature controlled forced air machines leave me with a narrow high and a disappointing feeling of wanting to smoke. It doesn't help that bag systems need to run moderate temperatures or else the vapor will taste horribly stale. I much prefer packing a whip and taking a thick rip and see how close to smoking I can get.

could not agree more.. i would have started vaporizer use 2 years ago ,if not for the bad experience i had with the vaporizers and users themselves.. lame weak hits..didn't actually know if i got a hit or not,,mentally & physically not feeling satisfied ,,and that bad bad taste after the first hit.... if not for getting sick from traditional smoking ( joints& bongs) and this forum to educate.. i would still be using those methods.. so so glad i switched..me & my vape are buddies lol . oh.. i do notice quite a different in taste from materials to materials . some tasting amazing others tasting good but different .. i will assume the strain and the dryness and fineness of the grind have to do with this

I heard, that some people inhale the smoke or vapour that deep, that it goes to their legs ( smoker´s leg ? ).

Vaping takes more time than smoking and you inhale it more long and deep.
May be it goes to body areas, where it is not absorbed, and wasted, like legs, arms or toes.

The bioavailability ( thc in blood ) of the thc is between 20 and 90 %. Depends on
how you vape and how long you keep it in your lung.

Thats why inhale slowly with mouth nearly closed.
It goes not too deep and i can keep it in my lung for a while, not in my legs.

I have had very little resistance to my arizer solo. I think some of the problem is people advocating complicated or expensive vapes to newbies. I say they should try the solo or something simple. Also the solo has no learning curve (ie I hand it to them and say inhale).

So far I have gotten 5 people to buy the solo and maybe 50+ (parties) have been very impressed with it, no idea if they bought one or not. There has only been one case where someone wasnt down with the solo and he was a chronic user (basically smoking 24X7) and a moron.

Vapewithfire said:

I heard, that some people inhale the smoke or vapour that deep, that it goes to their legs ( smoker´s leg ? ).

Vaping takes more time than smoking and you inhale it more long and deep.
May be it goes to body areas, where it is not absorbed, and wasted, like legs, arms or toes.

The bioavailability ( thc in blood ) of the thc is between 20 and 90 %. Depends on
how you vape and how long you keep it in your lung.

Thats why inhale slowly with mouth nearly closed.
It goes not too deep and i can keep it in my lung for a while, not in my legs.

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I think this might be me. I love having monster hits & I like to hold it in till my toes curl a bit.
I have been scoring my hash lately from under my toenails, which explains why the dog passes out when she sniffs my socks.

I must admit Im not sure what concentrate has been oozing from 'mr floppy' lately, it must be potent cause it sure tastes terrible, but sure smokes up very nicely.

I have considered getting a prosthetic leg, (think volcano bags) for parties, but that creates all sorts of problems by not having an extra shoe, plus I drive an auto as well.

However I do manage to keep most of my left over vapor in my lower colon, but peeps sure look at you funny when you appear to be inhaling yr own farts and they really get weird when you do it thru a bubbler.

Dont even bother asking them if they want a toke?
stuck up fuckers

chicks get really weirded out when i drop my pants and ask if they wanna hit offa my whip?
I tell em its ok and just to toke on it as hard as they can.
Doesnt seem to help when I offer them to suck my toes instead?

Come to think of it, some of the dudes dont go for it much either?
But of course a few of them do & they love it.

Just ask @Stu, his beard couldnt get his face up to the hole in the wall fast enuff.

I think I may have smokers balls... or perhaps Im getting this confused with the blue variety?

I had smokers burp this morning I'm gonna change my name to windy thc

only read the abstract, but it says water pipe is less healthy (reduced respiratory function) than smoking with non-deep inhale. i think that's what it said. but probably tobacco ... my guess is that cannabis is different ... more tests are needed.

edit ... sorry, i was responding to a post several weeks ago ... didn't realize i wasn't at the end of the thread, yet ... yes, a nice buzz this morning.

Vapewithfire said:

I heard, that some people inhale the smoke or vapour that deep, that it goes to their legs ( smoker´s leg ? ).

Thats why inhale slowly with mouth nearly closed.
It goes not too deep and i can keep it in my lung for a while, not in my legs.

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Fuck. I was wondering why my toes were turning brown. Now giving my feet an ISO wash to see if I can get enough resin for some tootsie QWISO.

Gotta question though. Do ya think that clipped toe nails will fuck up my grinder?

lwien said:

Fuck. I was wondering why my toes were turning brown. Now giving my feet an ISO wash to see if I can get enough resin for some tootsie QWISO.

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Oh shit... I was wondering about that! Am I too far gone?

Caligula said:

Oh shit... I was wondering about that! Am I too far gone?

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You might want to ask your doctor about that...

Caligula said:

Oh shit... I was wondering about that! Am I too far gone?

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No, you're not too far gone, but I am, but just look at all that reclaimable resin. I'm soooo stoked. ;

I think Adam Sandler might have the worst case of all...

Vapewithfire said:

I heard, that some people inhale the smoke or vapour that deep, that it goes to their legs ( smoker´s leg ? ).

Vaping takes more time than smoking and you inhale it more long and deep.
May be it goes to body areas, where it is not absorbed, and wasted, like legs, arms or toes.

The bioavailability ( thc in blood ) of the thc is between 20 and 90 %. Depends on
how you vape and how long you keep it in your lung.

Thats why inhale slowly with mouth nearly closed.
It goes not too deep and i can keep it in my lung for a while, not in my legs.

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Can you even find a source for this "smoker's leg" thing? It makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. Your lungs don't extend to your legs. Your blood circulates to your legs but it has to otherwise it wouldn't be able to go to your brain...?