The Magic-Flight Launch Box (Beta)

I can't compare the Box to the VG because I don't have one. [actually, now that I think about it, I DO have a VG in my stash draw. I didn't like it much, but I don't think I gave it much of a chance. I can't remember for sure, but I think it was (1) too heavy, and (2) I burned the load as often I didn't.]

I have noticed a few things about the Box that still befuddle me. I think that understanding the "why" is harder for me as a vape "expert", because I expect things that don't turn out to be relevant to the Box. Like denser vapor is better than less dense vapor.

1) I always get whacked when I use the Box. Every single time. It always works.

2) I rarely see any vapor at all when I exhale. When I do, it's pretty faint. If I am really "overusing" a given load, I get way more visible vapor with the final one or two hits than I did with the first few hits.

3) I do get a fair amount of flavor in the first hit or two from a load.

4) Turning the Box over and tapping it and shaking it while I'm holding in hit two or three always makes the remaining hits better.

Now that all said, MF has been telling me the right way to use the Box all along, so it's not like they don't know... I just finished a load, and I swear I thought that the @#!&* Box wasn't working. No visible vapor to speak of, the inhaled stream was just warm, not hot, and so I was starting to get pissed off. Then #1 above happened.

So I don't really get it, I mostly feel like the Box isn't working properly. "Did I use a partially charged battery instead of a full one? Is the battery not making good contact with the terminals in the Box? Why can't my using experience be consistent?" Then I get whacked, and mostly don't care about the why (but I still do).

Oh, and a few messages ago I mentioned that I use my Volcano 100% of the time when I'm home. That's no longer precisely correct. I'm finding that there are times at home that I don't want to take the five minutes to wait for the Volcano; I just want a fast hit. So I push the battery into the Box, and in two minutes I'm done. I never think it worked, but somehow it always does.

I really love the Box too, though I am still at a loss as to why I feel like it's not working properly all the time even though it is.

Haywood

Haywood said:

I can't compare the Box to the VG because I don't have one.
1) I always get whacked when I use the Box. Every single time. It always works.

2) I rarely see any vapor at all when I exhale. When I do, it's pretty faint. If I am really "overusing" a given load, I get way more visible vapor with the final one or two hits than I did with the first few hits.

3) I do get a fair amount of flavor in the first hit or two from a load.

4) Turning the Box over and tapping it and shaking it while I'm holding in hit two or three always makes the remaining hits better.



....minutes I'm done. I never think it worked, but somehow it always does.

I really love the Box too, though I am still at a loss as to why I feel like it's not working properly all the time even though it is.

Haywood

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Thats odd, that is exactly how I feel about the II, in that I can never really exhale a cloud though at times I can get some good vapor, and I never feel like its worked until minutes after I've stopped smoking and the 'wow im fucking lit' hits me.

The box can give me a huge cloudy hit if you really want, though you are correct again I get bigger (grosser ones) when overusing a boxload.

I also love the shake n bake method, and the flavor is always best on the first one/two hits. I love to just pack single hits and taste the fire again and again. Same batt goes further too which is good cause after reading some comments in this thread I feel like I am sinning with the fast charger, lol but 8 batteries in roto serve me just fine, plenty.

As some others said the batteries that came w/the box are a much tighter fit but I like that, with my energizers I feel like I don't get a proper connection unless I apply some leverage of some sort to the shell while its in.

And the numbers on the batteries is a great way to tell them apart but how about stopping potential discharge during transport or even on a table where they're liable to roll and make contact with one another? I don't know if its as big a problem as Im am thinking but I still like my wooden battery holder idea, I just gotta snag me a proper sized bit.

I don't know if its already been asked/suggested. But the idea of a sort of 'dummy' battery with a cord that you could plug into the wall that worked the same as a normal bat. for when you didn't need the box to be portable as a purchasable option, would be absolutely phenominal. I imagine in reality as opposed to my stoney ideas that the concept is much easier than the practice and premade easily charged batteries are the cheap no brainer way to go.

kingcrimson said:

I could sing the praises for this delightful box for hours, and will get around to that when I've time. For now I just want to say thanks for allowing me to replace combustion MF.

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You are most welcome!

kingcrimson said:

Might I suggest/request a wooden strip similar in size to the launch box, maybe slightly longer, with holes drilled in it, for a battery holder?

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We actually do have plans to try a wooden battery holder. It would hold two batteries and would be similar in size to the Box. It will probably be about a month before these are ready. I will post here when they become available.

kingcrimson said:

the plastic case is fine and all but I am paranoid about the small space between batteries allowing them to come in contact in discharge...

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It is ok for the batteries in the case to touch side to side -- no chance for any problems there. It is when the nipple end of the battery touches the side that there can be "premature-discharge" problems.

kingcrimson said:

... I frequently have a hard time remembering which batteries are charged and which arent.

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The way that I keep track of which are charged vs spent is to orient the battery in the case. I always open the case towards the left with the rounded side as the lid. I put the nipple end of the battery upright when it is charged. Discharged batteries I put with the nipple end down. As long as the case stays closed, the batteries never move, and there is no chance of confusion.

kingcrimson said:

I am just waiting for ya'll to launch of tabletop device. This thing keeps me satisfied all day for sure but I imagine in my stoney haze that you folks have some interesting setups that have been tinkered with...

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We do have some interesting bench setups -- mostly lab type stuff -- too complicated for home use. Also, the market for desktop units is very crouded -- there is very little chance that we would be able to compete with the many more established vendors. As such, we have no plans towards benchtop units for the near term.

-- Magic-Flight

Yea Haywood, I was know what you mean about determining if your getting draws. Its certainly a leap of faith as I rarely get vapor and the flavor is nothing like my Da Budda but it works perfectly.

For veteran vapist I think the learning curve is more than for new users with the LB as we have conceptions on how to operate a vape but this one pushes those conceptions. I am used to seeing big vapor clouds, LB I get barely visible and for the first time I have to go by viewing the abv to determine when its done.

Really after about the 3rd draw it all taste the same to me but it certainly does what it supposed to do and does it very well. When I travel, I will be glad to have it by side.

wow, thanks for the reply MF... and the battery info totally cures my irrational contact paranoia. the batteriest can touch paralell, just not perpendicular nipple to sleeve. check.
Awesome about the holders, awesome about the simple remembering method. I use standing for charged and on side for dead, but sometime I forget to follow the rule lol, either way its no huge problem.

and as for the bench setups, and no plants in the near term for a tabletop model. I wont pretend I know more or have done anywhere near the level of research you folk have likely undertaken in this endeavor, but a simple MF version of the verdamper, IE, a heatscreen/bowl that pulls directly into a small pot of h20, that utilized your heating principiples as opposed to the ones in the extrememly expensive aformentioned stickman, well I guess what Im saying is, Im likely wrong but also please don't underestimate your product and the niche that might be fillable in terms of serious, cheap(er), hand crafted tabletop beauties.

Haywood said:

I have noticed a few things about the Box that still befuddle me. I think that understanding the "why" is harder for me as a vape "expert", because I expect things that don't turn out to be relevant to the Box. Like denser vapor is better than less dense vapor.

1) I always get whacked when I use the Box. Every single time. It always works.
2) I rarely see any vapor at all when I exhale. When I do, it's pretty faint...

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I must admit that I enjoy a certain perverse pleasure in blowing peoples minds

Its like a good joke: it starts with common everyday ideas and then goes in a totally unexpected direction. Our usual accepted ways of thinking are turned totally upside down and if we are very lucky, enlightenment occurs.

In regards to vapor, I would like to point out that any vapor that is visable on exhale is wasted. Therefore, by definition, any device that produces visable vapor on exhale is catagorically less efficient than one that does not. As such then, the ideal vapor density is exactly that which can be adsorbed by the lungs in a natural/comfortable interval of time -- usually between 3 to 5 seconds. As long as one breaths deeply, lungs are fairly efficient at adsorbtion (for most people, better than 95% uptake in 5 seconds). However, there is a limit, and vapor densities higher than that simply do not achieve as much for the volume of materials consumed.

Given the choice between having something look good vs building something that actually works, we definately prefer the "works" option. Having visable vapor is also particularly a disadvantage if one is trying to be stealthy. Further, visability is especially bad since it also implies higher levels of smell as well -- even less stealthy, and in a worse way. We find it especially ironic to find people asking if the Box can produce visable vapor on exhale -- as if that was a good thing! We worked hard to optimize the Box to make it easy to deliver results without that sort of ephemera.

Also, I should point out that the degree of visability of vapor is also dependant on how hot the material was heated to (ie, which components are extracted and/or created). Hotter may create more visability, but this is also not always a good thing since it usually implies either some degree of free condensation (mist) and/or the creation of particulate matter (smoke) -- both of which are bad. True vapor is like a gasious solution -- it should be clear, and therefore invisable. People who speak of seeing a "milky white vapor" are actually talking about a mist that shares space with a vapor -- a result of changes in temperature more than anything else (like fog at night).

Haywood said:

I'm finding that there are times at home that I don't want to take the five minutes to wait for the Volcano; I just want a fast hit. So I push the battery into the Box, and in two minutes I'm done. I never think it worked, but somehow it always does.

I really love the Box too, though I am still at a loss as to why I feel like it's not working properly all the time even though it is.

Haywood

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That it works is good -- we like to hear that. Thank you again for some excellent and interesting comments/questions!

-- Magic-Flight

I think the option for a home battery would be awesome....considering it wouldn't be more than $15-$25 it seems like the investment would be worth while. The reason I (and I'm sure many other LB owners) want the at home plug-in is because sometimes we want to kick back with this wooden lil beauty and get the vapors at all times. I get tired of dealing with batteries when im at home/dealing with recharging them all the time...but for now its still worthwhile. just my

For the record this thing is on the same level of efficiency as the so it is worth the investment if you could call it that

Hennessy1414 said:

I think the option for a home battery would be awesome... The reason I (and I'm sure many other LB owners) want the at home plug-in is because sometimes we want to kick back with this wooden lil beauty and get the vapors at all times....

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Understood. It is a good reason -- and therefore bears looking into. I will be sure to see that some engineering time gets allocated to it. No promises at this point.

Hennessy1414 said:

... considering it [a home battery unit] wouldn't be more than $15-$25 ...

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This is a little stickier -- the actual price of such item would be definitely northwards -- most likely enough so that most users (having similar expectations) would be unlikely to buy it (creating problems on our end). I have some respect for makers of desktop units, which for reasons that I understand, are more likely to need to charge more than that. It is unlikely that anyone would be able to hit this price point and survive for very long (ie, be sustainable) -- that is my opinion though -- there may people around who perhaps know more about it than I do.

-- Magic-Flight

well noted thanks for the reply.

MF~ We do have some interesting bench setups -- mostly lab type stuff -- too complicated for home use

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God knows what vapes you have experimented with...I wish I could experiment like you

Hennessy1414 said:

For the record this thing is on the same level of efficiency as the ;pd

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Wow, that is as close to the good vape-keeping seal of approval as you can get! I also feel a bit vindicated when I had compared the LB to a desktop vape and was almost run off the board! Glad 'true vapor always wins' on that one!

The visible thing is awesome as I had never heard the pyrotechnics of the vapor cloud explained before, but it also jives w/my own experience. My line about vaping isn't an art project for me holds true w/taste as well. Isn't the goal to go from , , , or into , , , , or sometimes ?

The upside of smell, taste is that you enjoy/recognize the plant more. Obviously, this is not as as was pointed out. It's really simple - just re-trench earlier/later depending on your taste or mood.

Regarding the home battery, it's called a "battery eliminator", and I brought this up back on post 79, w/a similar response from MF in post 88. What is going on w/this thread, is it turning into one of those 100+ pagers that repeat??! "You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie..."

A little bit of googling turned up this: the QCAvionix Pilot Shop BE-AA 1-6 AA Cell Batt. Eliminator http://www.qcavionix.com/be-aa.php. It's $50. What does everyone think?

It looked like that device would still need you to have a 12V power source. Great for the car, but you would have to buy something else to power it. Seems like a lot of work and wires and $ to make it all work.

duh said:

Regarding the home battery, it's called a "battery eliminator", and I brought this up back on post 79...
A little bit of googling turned up this: the QCAvionix Pilot Shop BE-AA 1-6 AA Cell Batt. Eliminator http://www.qcavionix.com/be-aa.php. It's $50.

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Hi,

The trouble occurs at the specifications: "Output: 1.5 to 9 Volts - up to 1 Ampere"

Perhaps someone out there knows of one that might read "Output: 1.0 Volts, up to 12 Amp"?
Beyond this, the details get a little cumbersome to discuss here -- probably belongs in its own thread.

-- Magic-Flight

PS: If I had a prize for best use of most emoticons in one sentence, you would win!

Rats! Well, the point is that is some more enterprising FCer than me can google the right formula, maybe there is a path towards the ever-burning candle aka the aa that shall not die aka a battery eliminator that would have the right characteristics for the LB...

I am working on a way to power it directly via usb from my laptop. I don't know if it will work, but I am going to give it a shot over the next couple of weeks.

2tiki said:

I am working on a way to power it directly via usb from my laptop. I don't know if it will work, but I am going to give it a shot over the next couple of weeks.

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There are zero ways to power the Box via USB.

Not only do you need 1.2 volts (not 5 volts), you need between 5 and 10 amps (not 1/2 an amp). Even if you locate a reasonably priced power supply that will give you that, you have to take into consideration current limiting and other parameters. One of the wonderful things about the Box's design is that the NiMH AA battery current limits by nature (due to its internal resistance). If it didn't, the screen would glow bright red, the battery would last 10 seconds, and would then probably explode. Quite the rush.

If you really want to get into this, you'll need to get voltage versus current versus time graphs from MF that describe the needs of the screen they use. The resistance of the screen will no doubt change with temperature as well, and this too is part of the wonder of how each part of the Box works with every other part. The inherent current limiting of the battery and the changing resistance of the screen as it heats up must be a marvel to look at when graphed. And I wouldn't be surprised if MF chose to use a different screen size, shape, or material if they were designing the Box to be used with an AC to DC supply instead of a battery.

Oh, and wait until you price a 10 amp supply with programmable current regulation and the ability to supply 1.2 volts rather than a more common voltage... All my cynicism aside, this message is meant in good spirit, not to discourage you (or anyone). I do have a little experience with electronics and power supplies, and 1.2 volts at 10 amps with current regulation ain't cheap or small.

I find that two batteries and the Energizer 15 minute charger is enough that I never have to wait. Since I actually have eight batteries "assigned" to my Box, I can get spaced out at home and forget to pop a battery or two into the charger, and still I never have to wait. Purchasing an Energizer 15 minute charger (which comes with four very nice batteries that work very well with the Box) is WAY cheaper, and is pretty easy to manage.


Haywood

2tiki said:

I am working on a way to power it directly via usb from my laptop. I don't know if it will work, but I am going to give it a shot over the next couple of weeks.

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Hi,

I applaud your initiative! However, it may be good to know that the USB power supply specification calls for only 100 milliamps at 5 volts. With proper circuitry and coding, some computers may be able to supply up to 1 whole amp (this tends to be the exception, however). Even assuming best case, this is about half of the typical power (wattage) used by the Box -- not sure how you would get around that. The advantage of the battery in the USB charger is that it stores up power over time, enabling the Box to work.

-- Magic-Flight

Haywood said:

There are zero ways to power the Box via USB....

...The inherent current limiting of the battery and the changing resistance of the screen as it heats up must be a marvel to look at when graphed...

Haywood

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I posted my reply before I read your comments -- all of which are correct. I remember the first time I began to really understand/appreciate the delicate balance of factors that went into the engineering -- definitely a moment of wonder -- makes me glad to be a part of this project.

-- Magic-flight

Oh, that sounds way more complicated than I thought it would be. I am starting to realize that the MF scientist guys have probably been thru all this already, and have a good reason for not having other methods for powering my new favorite vape.

I like to tinker, so I'll let everyone know if I come up with anything worth knowing about.

Hi Everyone,

As requested; I have created a new thread for the 'official' production version of the Launch Box. People who are commenting on or reviewing the Box are welcome to post (or re-post) there. Thanks everyone for some excellent questions/opinions! May your continued experiences with the Box be the Best ever!

-- Magic-Flight

this isnt really a review so I'll put it here I suppose. I am loving my box and with some heavy usage since I got it have no complaints. I look forward to a possible battery eliminator type deal or making one myself, but thats another post...

Anyways my question was about the center portion of the screen, not the bottom on the trough but the slanted side closest to the battery - the screen right where it meets the wood of the LB is bending away from the wood slightly, or at least not making contact with it enough so that rarely small particles can be sucked under the screen and into the mouth when one pulls hard enough to swirl the material. I know youre not supposed to pull that hard and I dont regularly but the issue remains. Its not big enough to be even qualifiable as a problem but I would love any ideas or suggestions from MF on what to do if anything other than 'dont pull so hard dumbass'.

kingcrimson said:

...the slanted side closest to the battery - the screen right where it meets the wood of the LB is bending away from the wood slightly...

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Hi,

Assuming that there is nothing lodged behind it, you might be able to press the screen back into place using just your finger. If that does not work and it becomes a problem, please send me a direct email and we will ship you a replacement unit free of charge.

-- Magic-Flight

magicflight said:

kingcrimson said:

...the slanted side closest to the battery - the screen right where it meets the wood of the LB is bending away from the wood slightly...

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Hi,

Assuming that there is nothing lodged behind it, you might be able to press the screen back into place using just your finger. If that does not work and it becomes a problem, please send me a direct email and we will ship you a replacement unit free of charge.

-- Magic-Flight

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epic customer service! ty so much, we'll be in contact. I sort of feel bad about getting a replacement though, this is still a perfectly good box, just requires a little extra cleaning and care.
There is definately nothing lodged 'twixt the wood and screen, I've tried brushing it clear and observed the gap with a bright led, I can see the bottom of the box. its just not making full contact for whatever reason. I've tried a few things making sure to be delicate, nothings really worked to well though, and every now and then I take a step back lol. I think my next attempt will involve a small shallow notch in the wood to wedge the screen into, we'll see how it works.

kingcrimson said:

magicflight said:

kingcrimson said:

...the slanted side closest to the battery - the screen right where it meets the wood of the LB is bending away from the wood slightly...

Click to expand...

Hi,

Assuming that there is nothing lodged behind it, you might be able to press the screen back into place using just your finger. If that does not work and it becomes a problem, please send me a direct email and we will ship you a replacement unit free of charge.

-- Magic-Flight

Click to expand...

epic customer service! ty so much, we'll be in contact. I sort of feel bad about getting a replacement though, this is still a perfectly good box, just requires a little extra cleaning and care.
There is definately nothing lodged 'twixt the wood and screen, I've tried brushing it clear and observed the gap with a bright led, I can see the bottom of the box. its just not making full contact for whatever reason. I've tried a few things making sure to be delicate, nothings really worked to well though, and every now and then I take a step back lol. I think my next attempt will involve a small shallow notch in the wood to wedge the screen into, we'll see how it works.

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I have dealt w/the same issue. The workaround you describe is good - I used a glass pick to push/tug the screen back into the wooden notch over the air outtake hole. As long as the gap is cleared before a session and you don't tip over or are shake rigorously, the path should remain clear. Also, you may want to stick w/the bent glass piece w/a slower draw to prevent anything from flying up.

kc, I'm curious if you use a mouthpiece every time and if you add/remove it from the box. I have found the air outtake hole to get an 'impression' of the circle on the screen from the mouthpiece. Pushing in a mouthpiece a little too far in seems to also tug the screen away from the box itself over time. To minimize on wear and tear, I try to leave the mouthpiece in.

I think you're thinking of the opposite screen as mine, the one over my air outtake hole by that end of the box is secure just fine, its the sloped center portion closest to the battery that is slightly separated.




before anyone asks, the black dot is from oil... tehehehe. had no problems w/it other than the discoloration.

As for using the elbow I enjoy the 'nub' much better personally, my elbow is dirty... already cleaned it once is it really glass, no way?
and I just enjoy the nub better, to that end I can leave it it when inverting the box to tumble its contents between hits or on the go for that matter - which is good because I've found that the hole can widen slightly with constant replacing of tubes which allows my elbow piece to wiggle a little, something my ocd brain finds quite annoying. No problem with the nub however - yet another reason I prefer it. I do use it every time, i dislike hitting the bare box immensely, just doesnt feel right. I've definately noticed what youre talking about though while paperclipping around the bottom of the box under the screen, through the mouthpeice hole in an effort to clear out some abv that was caught there, and I was sure to be ultra delecate for fear of pushing anything out of place

magicflight said:

Hennessy1414 said:

I think the option for a home battery would be awesome... The reason I (and I'm sure many other LB owners) want the at home plug-in is because sometimes we want to kick back with this wooden lil beauty and get the vapors at all times....

Click to expand...

Understood. It is a good reason -- and therefore bears looking into. I will be sure to see that some engineering time gets allocated to it. No promises at this point.

Hennessy1414 said:

... considering it [a home battery unit] wouldn't be more than $15-$25 ...

Click to expand...

This is a little stickier -- the actual price of such item would be definitely northwards -- most likely enough so that most users (having similar expectations) would be unlikely to buy it (creating problems on our end). I have some respect for makers of desktop units, which for reasons that I understand, are more likely to need to charge more than that. It is unlikely that anyone would be able to hit this price point and survive for very long (ie, be sustainable) -- that is my opinion though -- there may people around who perhaps know more about it than I do.

-- Magic-Flight

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this is my first post on these forums... just wanted to say ive bought a launch box as my first vape and im very happy with it, thankyou guys!

ive very grateful, it makes me realise how stupid ive been in smoking for 15+ years