Does vaping at lower temps. increase susceptibility for complications

^ I remember that programme from when it was on TV. She got stoned every day for a month, and then afterwards said how 'terrifying it was'. Note 'Fortunately, after the end of the month-long experiment, she has suffered no long-term effects, but has vowed to try to keep her children away from the drug.'

Bear in mind it was for BBC 3, which is more geared towards youth and entertainment programming, and not as hard more serious BBC channels. The same channel has attempted to 'inform the youth' in the same way since with a couple of similar programes reaching the same conclusions. I think they see this as their civic duty.

I did appreciate with this researchers views though (from the same show on youtube), which pretty much critisises both sides for letting this become a polemical debate wrt mental health. It's neither the evil drug politicians spew about, nor the miracale panacea with zero negativities that some in the 'pro' camp would like to believe. Some evidence seems to be emerging. I wouldn't doubt it on principle, to be honest. So far in my experience theres been nothing 'fun' (ie a noticeable effect) you can do that alters your biochemistry and physiology, without some negative effects if used chronically- it's just how the body has evolved. But I question the relative significance of these wrt MJ. An evidence based non politicised understanding of any of these potential effects are what I want.

I suppose perhaps that is what the bbc tried to provide with that documentary, albeit in a rather sensationalist way as happens on TV. It just wasn't an answer that I agreed with.

Excuse the consecutive post, I figured it had been long enough for those on the ball, and wanted to share this with those interested.

Looking online I came accross the short report from the original study that suggested this THC-CBD interaction that Charliedontsurf referred to. It's not the best sample size (140) but far from the worst. Those studied were also participants in another longditudinal study on ketamine and attention, and divided into groups of current and former ketamine users, other drug users and non drug users. Not sure how that might confound results, but they kind of touch on it in the discussion and decide it maybe doesn't. They don't really claim any conclusiveness- in fact no conclusion at all, just the discussion.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/192/4/306

i saw that "documentary" as well (and many others like it) and honestly, she got what she deserved to a point (not meant negative, simply just). i dont think she prepared herself properly to accept the amounts she took, she really needed someone (modern day shaman if you will) to "show her" what this sacred herb is all about as opposed to her diving deep in an analytical and sterile type environment and acting too much like someone who gets on a carnival ride having no idea if it has loops or is just an up and down coaster.

it was merely a snapshot of one persons' perspective and i was actually upset that she handled the herb as such. there is a reason previous peoples called it sacred, it wasnt just for recreation or enjoyment (i think we mostly agree here on that), it can/will unlock shit in you and alter your perception of the environment around you; its like a magnifying glass, kaleidoscope and book of knowledge all wrapped up in one for the mind.

i might be OT, sorry about that.

The bbc documentary showed a few positive and negative things based on how you saw it. The first time she puffed they gave her a spliff with too much tobacco and she smoked it too fast so that was probably why she felt the way she did the first time. I know I felt bad when I smoked a cigarette too fast and didn't have much food in my system.

There was another time she had smoke some black hash and she liked it a lot because she was enjoying her walk and her tour of the hemp museum while laughing continuously.

The last one where she had the injections showed, to me, cannabis is not meant to be alone because when she had just the thc is was too much of a stimulant but with the cbd it became balanced and she enjoyed it and was positive. This just affirmed what I was leaning towards which is thta cannabis is an herb which is an addition to FOOD and helps you become and stay healthy based on the food you eat with it. We just happen to smoke it for quicker affects.

Like I stated in other threads if you want to have an upbeat day you eat some high protein foods with equal to a little less carbs and greens, and some coffee/strong tea before you puff so you can be relaxed but still have enough energy to keep things getting done. If you want a nice relaxed night, eat a low protein high carb meal with some greens before you puff to keep things smooth and have deep, relaxing sleep with nice dreams.

I think we have to remember cannabis is still a food and treat it as such and blend it into our diet even though we ingest it by smoking or vaping. I think the problems occur because we may go over board with taking too much cannabis and not enough of the right foods that should go along with it and it stresses our body out and hence the problems that may come down the line. Even if it's short term memory loss, that is still a problem that shouldn't be there.

I ran across this. Very relevant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J7cZf2tFCQ

Edit: Sorry about the title of the video, but it actually is very relevant. Injected with pure THC and then the natural mixture of THC and CBDs, etc.

mrfloopa, i think we are referring to that and its been posted on page 1.

Nosferatu said:

Iv'e THOUROUGHLY thought through that same idea PhishCactus. Iv'e concluded that too low a temp of vaporizing where you dont get any or enough CBD/CBN is indeed against the plants intent. But vaping at anything over about 380F is fine and delivers an equal amount of each so that they can complement each other corectly. But its also important to smoke organic preferably outdoor medecine. That top shelf 65 dollar an eitht red and purple bullshit is way to strong in a vape. That stuff is made so strong so it can be efficent and enjoyable taken in in the crude way of smoking. But with the excelent extraction of the vaporizer it is much more enjoyable to hit the natural medecine.

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This is a series of strong opinions that you are more or less stating as fact. Suggesting that outdoor is better than indoor, or that some strains are too strong to vape, are incredibly subjective. If I could find stronger stuff to vape, I would. I would simply use less if necessary.

darkrom said:

Suggesting that outdoor is better than indoor, or that some strains are too strong to vape, are incredibly subjective. If I could find stronger stuff to vape, I would. I would simply use less if necessary.

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i have done that, i have fairly potent (least to me) and use very tiny amounts to achieve a very vaped experience...its wonderful.

High temps are debilitating not damaging

Im not going to read the thread but just turn your vape up more, there is no need to be scared of a 420f sorta temp level and it will give you a fuller gamut of cannabis

Unconnected said:

Im not going to read the thread but just turn your vape up more, there is no need to be scared of a 420f sorta temp level and it will give you a fuller gamut of cannabis

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Wrong wrong wrong, that's fine if you want to get stoned and choke. But If your trying to get medicated and still be able to function, you want barely visible vapor.

PhishCactus said:

I will provide some articles tomorrow

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How about those articles then??

Before you post anything, let me say this. I've been using cannabis now for roughly 30 years, tern of those years where recreational, I didnt really care anything about the medical aspect...but when I was confronted with a situation that had limited choices, I turned to MMJ as a alternative to what seemed like a very dismal future..So I take my medicine with much seriousness, even if others dont...I used to post my progress to this forum dally, I wasnt sure what difference I was making, but hopefully someone out there was inspired by my posts...then one day I posted a recipe on here or another forum called peanutbutter fuck you up's. Ten lbs later I came to the conclusion, I had concocted a weight gaining artery clogging recipe. And I thought my god what have I done, all I could hope for was that not to many people tried it...Anyway, I quit posting, I got concerned that something I might post would result in injury or death..in the years I didnt post I sprent much time on finding what works best (or at least, what worked best for me) So what I say here, is something that works for me...But anyway as far as the heat goes, it's different for every user. Just like every user needs a different strain..But as for the neuromuscular part I'm finding high heat debilitating, setting 3 on a solo for 25-35 mins.

THC seems less confusing, with more ability to focus by itself.

Actually I can somehow confirm the initial posting by my personal experience.. tried some low temp vaping the past weeks, and while it never gave me a high in the range of 130-159°C I had a noticeable amount of moments feeling weird, in a not so good way..

That's expected of low temp vaping. CBD and CBN balance it out, CBD dictates how THC acts, and CBN is the sedating sleepy aspect of it. Lower temps = more THC/less CBD and CBN, more of a "psychedelic" high. After a while you get this weird constant déjà vu feeling (see: derealization and depersonalization). Personally too much sativa or too low temps for a while starts to work against my anxiety and in turn depression and then that exacerbates my physical pain... So I try to balance my doses with CBD and CBN. This isn't really like I vape a stem of some haze and I'm freaking out for weeks, but for me I can start noticing myself going out of it, mentally dissociating so to speak from one aspect of life, then another, in about a week of vaping strictly low temps/strong sativas. At least at the rate that I vape. I don't think it would be a problem for me if I vaped once or twice a week, but then for me that would be recreational use instead of medical and I lose the overall benefits.

Just gotta find the right balance. I promise it feels really weird and maybe even a little scary when you start to see through a "pane" but it goes away. I think it's just the body's response, the "hey this is a little too much dude" action.

PhishCactus said:

My main point: I've seen several times that CBD cancels out POSSIBLE neurologically "altering" effects of THC. When we vape, were getting more THC and less CBD, depending on temperatures. So if this amazing plant "intended" for both chemicals to be consumed simultaneously, might we be doing harm by circumventing the natural order?

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Just my two cents on the subject. I have a slight suspicion most people don't vape their material thoroughly enough and hot enough at the end of the session. If this suspicion is correct then that explains why some people might get less cbd out of their vaping sessions.

After experiencing good thc but not enough cbd in my personal vaping, I developed a system of vaping that allows you to basically strip the material bare of all active elements including terpenes that vaporize at over 400 degrees farenheit, without combusting it. But damn nearly so. lol

I basically start at very low temperatures (270F believe it or not) and get as much vape as will vaporize at those temperatures (usually 6-7 very rich and long draws on my Vapor Brothers unit). Then I'll turn the temperature up to 336F and get 2-3 good clouds at that temp. Finally turn it up to 396F and get 1-2 decent clouds to finish the session. The temperature of the coil does not represent the temperature of the material. This is why combustion can and does happen even with coils set to 365F. The temperature of the material depends more with how fast or slow the draw is. I think the trick is to make sure and take it to the very verge of combustion. Hell even if it combusts a little on the corners every once in a while, not that big of a deal compared to smoking 5 bong loads every day like I used to. Also I stir the material well between each and every draw I take in the session from beginning to end.

Hope this might help someone. Comments or questions are appreciated.

Cheers

MysticVaper said:

Just my two cents on the subject. I have a slight suspicion most people don't vape their material thoroughly enough and hot enough at the end of the session. If this suspicion is correct then that explains why some people might get less cbd out of their vaping sessions.

After experiencing good thc but not enough cbd in my personal vaping, I developed a system of vaping that allows you to basically strip the material bare of all active elements including terpenes that vaporize at over 400 degrees farenheit, without combusting it. But damn nearly so. lol

I basically start at very low temperatures (270F believe it or not) and get as much vape as will vaporize at those temperatures (usually 6-7 very rich and long draws on my Vapor Brothers unit). Then I'll turn the temperature up to 336F and get 2-3 good clouds at that temp. Finally turn it up to 396F and get 1-2 decent clouds to finish the session. The temperature of the coil does not represent the temperature of the material. This is why combustion can and does happen even with coils set to 365F. The temperature of the material depends more with how fast or slow the draw is. I think the trick is to make sure and take it to the very verge of combustion. Hell even if it combusts a little on the corners every once in a while, not that big of a deal compared to smoking 5 bong loads every day like I used to. Also I stir the material well between each and every draw I take in the session from beginning to end.

Hope this might help someone. Comments or questions are appreciated.

Cheers

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That's generally what I do with my solo 2 up to 5 in stages 3 to 4 drags each time 5 to 6 the same stop at 6 if it's tastes done if not 7 until it's done.

Bubblegum or blueberry seem to give a great vape on the sedative front for me.

Sometimes I can't be arsed cram in the heavy hitters and go straight to 7

cityslang said:

That's generally what I do with my solo 2 up to 5 in stages 3 to 4 drags each time 5 to 6 the same stop at 6 if it's tastes done if not 7 until it's done.

Bubblegum or blueberry seem to give a great vape on the sedative front for me.

Sometimes I can't be arsed cram in the heavy hitters and go straight to 7

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Lol gotta love those heavy hitters! I love the sedation I get from bubbas.

9Samurai said:

Does a vape really separate out all the different chemicals so neatly? I'd imagine that, seeing as they are in a mix within the plant, they tend to boil at an average temperature.

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I don't believe temperature response/accuracy has advanced to the point of extracting single cannabinoid components, but am a true believer in the differences and benefits that can be realized by low or high temp vaping. I use the Arizer products, desktop and portable both temp adjustable. I low temp vape in the daytime (mostly), going to approx 175C on my EQ or L2 (185C) on my Solo. I believe the temp on my EQ higher than the displayed value due to the DDave Mod being used. After draining the product of vapor by either low temp session, I store the ABV. Then when time to call it a night, I revape the ABV that I created during my daytime sessions at approx 200C - 230C (strain dependent). This hits me like a monster truck and it's very difficult not to go to sleep soon after.

For the most part, this works across 90% of the strains I've tried.

Love how these really old threads are getting resurrected by newbies. yeah. hey.

Most other herbs are ingested as tea/tissane, or whole herb capsules (or parts, per labels)... so, we vaporize/eat/smoke/make tincture of cannabis. Not that much different from the other plants of the land.