Discontinued Thermovape Cera

watsonjoshd said:

I don't doubt it, but I am still not getting results. Realistically how much herb do I need to throw at this trying before I give up?

Warm up times tried: 30,45,60,90 seconds. Have tried warming up the core without packing it, also have tried packing firmly, loosely, filled to the top, filled halfway, barely filled.

Have tried fine grind (through an herb grinder) and medium and rough grinds done with an herb grinder and with fingers. Have not tried a whole contiguous bud, that seems totally counterintuitive; though at this point nothing else is working either so I'm not sure what is logical or not in this case.

Have tried slow mouth/cheek draw (think of the way you would smoke a cigarette or e-cig, filling your mouth first), have tried slow long deep chest draw (like a spliff or bubbler, but easy and slow)

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I'm having a similar problem to you with my LL cart. It just didn't work at first and I was getting absolutely no vapor. When I checked the heating core to see if it was lighting up, it wasn't. My Cera is brand new and I understand that TV is very careful with checking their products and what not, but there's always room for error. I don't know if either or both of us were sent faulty carts, but the fact of the matter, at least on my end, is it's not working as intended and I plan on shipping the cart back to have it fixed. I've heard they have great customer service though and should fix it up for us in no time. I've emailed them for guidance as to the best way to clean the cart and safely send it to them, but I haven't had any reply yet. If anyone has any tips or info on that it would be great because I want to get this thing shipped, fixed, and back to rip the right way as soon as possible!

EDIT: One thing I do have to say is as unlikely as it is made out to be to receive a defective unit, I was shipped a package missing a battery that I ordered, the cart being stuck in the body almost impossible to remove, and a LL heating core that won't heat up. I can't lie and say that's not extremely frustrating, and if it weren't for the performance of my EO cart and the promise of great customer service, I'd be pretty pissed.

Wubleton said:

I'm having a similar problem to you with my LL cart. It just didn't work at first and I was getting absolutely no vapor. When I checked the heating core to see if it was lighting up, it wasn't. My Cera is brand new and I understand that TV is very careful with checking their products and what not, but there's always room for error. I don't know if either or both of us were sent faulty carts, but the fact of the matter, at least on my end, is it's not working as intended and I plan on shipping the cart back to have it fixed. I've heard they have great customer service though and should fix it up for us in no time. I've emailed them for guidance as to the best way to clean the cart and safely send it to them, but I haven't had any reply yet. If anyone has any tips or info on that it would be great because I want to get this thing shipped, fixed, and back to rip the right way as soon as possible!

EDIT: One thing I do have to say is as unlikely as it is made out to be to receive a defective unit, I was shipped a package missing a battery that I ordered, the cart being stuck in the body almost impossible to remove, and a LL heating core that won't heat up. I can't lie and say that's not extremely frustrating, and if it weren't for the performance of my EO cart and the promise of great customer service, I'd be pretty pissed.

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LL doesnt get too dirty. A quick cotton swab with Iso should clean it up fine. If theres a brown circle in the middle still, dont worry its almost impossible to get rid of

I'd like to amend my last post. The temp outside last night was -9 degrees!! Cara EO still performed flawlessly

Wubleton said:

I'm having a similar problem to you with my LL cart. It just didn't work at first and I was getting absolutely no vapor. When I checked the heating core to see if it was lighting up, it wasn't. My Cera is brand new and I understand that TV is very careful with checking their products and what not, but there's always room for error.

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First off, bummer you seem to have a defective LL. At one point (about 6 months back) I asked and there had been no such failures as of that time. Not only no 'open' carts out of the box, but none had gone open in service. They are definitely 'run up' several times in the process to check heating time and centering of the heater (which needs to be fully hot to check), strap contact and so on. I've not only watched it happen, but done it myself (under supervision of course) making heaters for LL cores. It's not possible to build a core without running it up to full power several times. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it should be extremely rare.

This points to a very important point however: every owner should have already watched his core come to full temperature in order to understand step 1. Before ever putting any bud in the bowl. Full saturation of the core is the end of step 1 and the only way to know that's happened is to watch it a few times. Every time I read 'I let it warm up XX seconds then......' I know it's a guy not with the program. Step 1 is not about time. It's about heat, meaning core, battery, contacts, switch and all the rest that goes with heat. You really should be watching the core heat when first learning and as often as necessary afterwards to stay 'calibrated' to the preheat stage (step 1).

Regards to all.

OF

OF, I have to confess I hadn`t watched the glow time since my new switch arrived and was quite surprised to find a 20 second start up time on a fresh battery while closer to a minute on a semi depleted one. Are you saying there is an optimum moment to start inhaling or just make sure it is hot enough to go ? I`m still struggling with the elusive test puff and find it disturbs my rhythm trying to find it. I like to think I have progressed to the master technique, breathing from low down, but inconsistent results at times suggest otherwise. Sometimes, as with searching for the test puff, the airways get too tight to draw through. My method of inhaling until I feel resistance, and managing this resistance seems the only way to counteract this vacuum. Sometimes I get good vapour and sometimes I don`t. I do realise the name of the game is `consistent results` and not `hit and miss`. Still get medicated whatever happens but feel there is room for improvement in technique. Is there any other way to describe, as in 3 steps of the test puff, what should be going on at this stage ? I`ve read all the reviews but without a watching a close up video of man and machine in harmony I`m still not sure how and when to replicate what you say. Any help would be appreciated ! After 2 months of owning a cera I`m starting to wonder why some hits are more forthcoming than others.

Not sure if this helps, but with the EO cart I take the top off and press in the battery and watch it. After a little while I can hear it starting to gurgle. Then a tiny cloud begins to form in the ceramic bowl, which tells me that my concentrate is melting enough to plop a little more onto the bowl. Top goes back on and I start to inhale. I dont time it at all. I cant say if that will work for anyone else, but it seems to work for me.

hoptimum said:

Not sure if this helps, but with the EO cart I take the top off and press in the battery and watch it. After a little while I can hear it starting to gurgle. Then a tiny cloud begins to form in the ceramic bowl, which tells me that my concentrate is melting enough to plop a little more onto the bowl. Top goes back on and I start to inhale. I dont time it at all. I cant say if that will work for anyone else, but it seems to work for me.

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The LL cart is a different animal and not necessarily designed for heavy stoners. It`s selling point is its clean smooth delivery and ability to accommodate hash. Getting it to dance requires practice !

Nimrod said:

OF, I have to confess I hadn`t watched the glow time since my new switch arrived and was quite surprised to find a 20 second start up time on a fresh battery while closer to a minute on a semi depleted one. Are you saying there is an optimum moment to start inhaling or just make sure it is hot enough to go ? I`m still struggling with the elusive test puff and find it disturbs my rhythm trying to find it. I like to think I have progressed to the master technique, breathing from low down, but inconsistent results at times suggest otherwise. Sometimes, as with searching for the test puff, the airways get too tight to draw through. My method of inhaling until I feel resistance, and managing this resistance seems the only way to counteract this vacuum. Sometimes I get good vapour and sometimes I don`t. I do realise the name of the game is `consistent results` and not `hit and miss`. Still get medicated whatever happens but feel there is room for improvement in technique. Is there any other way to describe, as in 3 steps of the test puff, what should be going on at this stage ? I`ve read all the reviews but without a watching a close up video of man and machine in harmony I`m still not sure how and when to replicate what you say. Any help would be appreciated ! After 2 months of owning a cera I`m starting to wonder why some hits are more forthcoming than others.

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Sounds to me like a few things could be causing your issue.

For one, i was getting inconsistent results similar to what you described. Especially with the depleted batteries. Turned out my LL was out of spec. First thing you should do is get a dmm (digital multimeter) (cheap sub $20 dollar one is fine and is a must for all cera owners imo). Check the core with a dmm, place one prong in the threads and the other on the end that comes in contact with battery, and it should read about 1.0 ohm give or take.

If thats not the issue than it seems to me like you may be packing it too tightly and not getting good airflow as a result which will lead to inconsistent results.

What does your abv look like after a session?

Nimrod said:

OF, I have to confess I hadn`t watched the glow time since my new switch arrived and was quite surprised to find a 20 second start up time on a fresh battery while closer to a minute on a semi depleted one. Are you saying there is an optimum moment to start inhaling or just make sure it is hot enough to go ?

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Exactly so. You should definitely let it build until it reaches saturation, so that heat is being delivered (and carried away) as fast as conditions will allow. Waiting longer makes the whole body hotter without helping in vapor making and depletes the battery. Starting early, as I think most do, means you have less heat left to work with when the time comes.

You need to store heat energy before hand. Trying to use it as it's developed won't cut it.

Stick with it, step by step, it'll all come together. Even when you've 'developed your own personal technique' I think it's worth while going back and doing it 'by the numbers' is worth while.

For me, my big breakthrough came in the T1 days when Tim suggested the test puff. Making getting a solid test puff (not 'big clouds') the goal made all the difference. I think as long as a guy stays focused on big clouds he condemns himself to ignore other, better, techniques.

Your call, of course. You buy it to use after all.

OF

Mynameismud said:

Sounds to me like a few things could be causing your issue.

For one, i was getting inconsistent results similar to what you described. Especially with the depleted batteries. Turned out my LL was out of spec. First thing you should do is get a dmm (digital multimeter) (cheap sub $20 dollar one is fine and is a must for all cera owners imo). Check the core with a dmm, place one prong in the threads and the other on the end that comes in contact with battery, and it should read about 1.0 ohm give or take.

If thats not the issue than it seems to me like you may be packing it too tightly and not getting good airflow as a result which will lead to inconsistent results.

What does your abv look like after a session

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Will get it checked out. Packing and fuel seem to be the only variant. I do find it doesn`t seem to be as tight after boiling the cart and mouthpiece. After experimenting again with pure bud and having no problems, I think I can safely say it is the differing oil content in the different batches of hash/pollen I use that causes the variation !

OF said:

Exactly so. You should definitely let it build until it reaches saturation, so that heat is being delivered (and carried away) as fast as conditions will allow. Waiting longer makes the whole body hotter without helping in vapor making and depletes the battery. Starting early, as I think most do, means you have less heat left to work with when the time comes.

You need to store heat energy before hand. Trying to use it as it's developed won't cut it.

Stick with it, step by step, it'll all come together. Even when you've 'developed your own personal technique' I think it's worth while going back and doing it 'by the numbers' is worth while.

For me, my big breakthrough came in the T1 days when Tim suggested the test puff. Making getting a solid test puff (not 'big clouds') the goal made all the difference. I think as long as a guy stays focused on big clouds he condemns himself to ignore other, better, techniques.

Your call, of course. You buy it to use after all.

OF

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I think I finally get what you mean by the test puff, sort of sucking all the air out of the system keeping the vapour at full pressure ready to go. Wow, doing this before each draw really gets cera`s juices flowing on demand. The eagle has landed !

Nimrod said:

I think I finally get what you mean by the test puff, sort of sucking all the air out of the system keeping the vapour at full pressure ready to go. Wow, doing this before each draw really gets cera`s juices flowing on demand. The eagle has landed !

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Yup, that's it. When you can take a mouthful in and puff it out right away like you were working on a cigar and get a dense puff of vapor out you're there. That puff was the last thing to come off, the heat is right, time to honk on it. Most guys stop short of the mark.

As Spock would say, "Live long, and prosper". Congrats. Worth the effort, isn't it?

OF

Hey guys, with the LL cart I found using it with a bong helped with my draw technique a lot. Interesting tidbit of info, a full LL cart a bit packed is equal to a full trench in the MFLB. It takes me three to four pulls on the LL to cash the bowl and with the MFLB that trench would take me maybe 8 pulls to result in the same ABV color. Not saying one is better than the other, just thought I share my recent findings. I personally like to get medicated as quickly as possible.

Also I picked up a pair of the Sony 30A high drain batteries and can say that they last longer than the stock recommended ones and seems to give a better kick at start. These are just my initial findings and it should also be noted that my original batteries were used.

OF said:

Yup, that's it. When you can take a mouthful in and puff it out right away like you were working on a cigar and get a dense puff of vapor out you're there. That puff was the last thing to come off, the heat is right, time to honk on it. Most guys stop short of the mark.

As Spock would say, "Live long, and prosper". Congrats. Worth the effort, isn't it?

OF

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The trick seems to be to suck the air out of the system from high up, (like trying to blow up a nearly fully inflated balloon or beachball in reverse) for a few seconds to prime, before draining your lungs and then inhale from low down. Doing this before every draw seems to keep cera primed and ready to go !

Nimrod said:

The trick seems to be to suck the air out of the system from high up, (like trying to blow up a nearly fully inflated balloon or beachball in reverse) for a few seconds to prime, before draining your lungs and then inhale from low down. Doing this before every draw seems to keep cera primed and ready to go !

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I don't think how or 'where you draw from' matters in step 2, the idea is to move air to transfer heat. A fan could do it.

The 'trick' is to ignore the partial hit you have at that point. Blow it out, don't waste time once it's at temperature.

When you get the solid test puff, blow it and everything in your lungs out immediately and start the real hit (step 3). At that point you should be on the edge of production in the entire load with plenty of heat still stored in the core to tap. This too it a common failure point for new guys, they fiddle around wasting the heat at step 2. My advice is if you don't make step 3 in two tries, give up and go back to one and build the heat again.

Once you really arrive at step 3 with enough heat still left in the core, the world's your oyster. Hit at will and expect outstanding results......you've paid for/earned them.

OF

I LOVE my Cera!

jpdnkstr said:

I LOVE my Cera!

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Yer not alone there, Bro....and that's for sure.

Not a very well kept secret is it?

Gives a guy something to look forward to with the Luna.

OF

OF said:

I don't think how or 'where you draw from' matters in step 2, the idea is to move air to transfer heat. A fan could do it.

The 'trick' is to ignore the partial hit you have at that point. Blow it out, don't waste time once it's at temperature.

When you get the solid test puff, blow it and everything in your lungs out immediately and start the real hit (step 3). At that point you should be on the edge of production in the entire load with plenty of heat still stored in the core to tap. This too it a common failure point for new guys, they fiddle around wasting the heat at step 2. My advice is if you don't make step 3 in two tries, give up and go back to one and build the heat again.

Once you really arrive at step 3 with enough heat still left in the core, the world's your oyster. Hit at will and expect outstanding results......you've paid for/earned them.

OF

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OF, are you saying step two primes cera for the whole session or just for the first big hit ? Not sure what I have stumbled across here trying to maintain a vacuum at all times but I am getting better hits and consistent results. You say yourself that cera is a very flexible instrument and I am trying to discover all her possibilities. Just had another read of vaporpedia. Am I correct in understanding that the start up puffing technique for the advanced method is different from the long slow draw for the beginners ? If this is so I think I`m beginning to understand where all the confusion is coming from.

Nimrod said:

OF, are you saying step two primes cera for the whole session or just for the first big hit ? Not sure what I have stumbled across here trying to maintain a vacuum at all times but I am getting better hits and consistent results.

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Not really. I never said "prime" did I? Step 1 and 2 are steps you need to go through to get it to work in a serious manner. Like getting into your car and starting the engine. Both are important, must be done in some way, are not interchangeable and you can't compensate for one with the other. You need to handle the heat, you can draw it off faster than it's produced never making 400F if you really try.

It's a time issue. You need to wait long enough to build full heat at step 1 (but not be wasteful or heat the body more than needed), transfer some of that heat quickly to the load so there's enough left over for the hit and get it done before stuff can cool off in the bowl.

Hitting it again before it can cool enough to drop out of production is fine, wait too long and you should go back to step 2 if you want to avoid lots of wimpy hits.

I think your 'vacuum technique' is keeping you focused on the process and timing (the missing element before?). Although, as you say, if the results are what you want they are what you want.

OF

OF said:

Not really. I never said "prime" did I? Step 1 and 2 are steps you need to go through to get it to work in a serious manner. Like getting into your car and starting the engine. Both are important, must be done in some way, are not interchangeable and you can't compensate for one with the other. You need to handle the heat, you can draw it off faster than it's produced never making 400F if you really try.

It's a time issue. You need to wait long enough to build full heat at step 1 (but not be wasteful or heat the body more than needed), transfer some of that heat quickly to the load so there's enough left over for the hit and get it done before stuff can cool off in the bowl.

Hitting it again before it can cool enough to drop out of production is fine, wait too long and you should go back to step 2 if you want to avoid lots of wimpy hits.

I think your 'vacuum technique' is keeping you focused on the process and timing (the missing element before?). Although, as you say, if the results are what you want they are what you want.

OF

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OF, the difference here is you were shown how to use yours from a guy from the factory while newbies have only your instructions to work with ! I presume everybody here knows how to press a button so the ambiguity must lie in the draw/puffing technique at step two. For those of us unfamiliar with the technique used for puffing on a cigar, this is not as straightforward as you make out. Your vaporpedia instructions seem to indicate two different drawing techniques. So far I have been using the slow draw beginners guide using the diaphragmatic breathing recommended by Douchee. This works well even with small amounts of hash. Getting cera to dance is a bit more tricky and I am getting repeatable results but not visible thick test puff vapour after a few seconds or whatever. A comprehensive guide from the moment your lips touch the mouthpiece until thick (test puff) vapour is exhaled would be helpful. I`m sure this `forbidden knowledge` would save TET the hassle of having to deal with many so called duff units.

Nimrod said:

OF, the difference here is you were shown how to use yours from a guy from the factory while newbies have only your instructions to work with ! I presume everybody here knows how to press a button so the ambiguity must lie in the draw/puffing technique at step two. For those of us unfamiliar with the technique used for puffing on a cigar, this is not as straightforward as you make out. Your vaporpedia instructions seem to indicate two different drawing techniques. So far I have been using the slow draw beginners guide using the diaphragmatic breathing recommended by Douchee. This works well even with small amounts of hash. Getting cera to dance is a bit more tricky and I am getting repeatable results but not visible thick test puff vapour after a few seconds or whatever. A comprehensive guide from the moment your lips touch the mouthpiece until thick (test puff) vapour is exhaled would be helpful. I`m sure this `forbidden knowledge` would save TET the hassle of having to deal with many so called duff units.

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Or a video demonstrating technique?

Nimrod said:

OF, the difference here is you were shown how to use yours from a guy from the factory while newbies have only your instructions to work with

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Actually that's not true. I was never "shown how to use" Cera any more than any of the other TV products. It would not be legal for them to do so I expect. Same as you, I got some verbal instructions as a starting point. And I understood the theory of operation of each unit from the start. Skills with T1 transferred to Evolution to Cera LL same as Revolution went to DART to Cera EO. I basically knew how to drive Cera long before there were Ceras. As did a goodly number of T1 and Evolution owners you'll find hanging about here. If anything, Cera LL is easier I think even though less powerful.

As with other vapes I worked it out for myself and make no claim past my suggested techniques working if followed. Be that here, with Omicron carts (or other W9 stuff), Ascent, VB or any others I suggest techniques on.

I suggested the 3 steps as a teaching tool, you'll notice they don't officially embrace it? The test puff suggestion from Tim was just that, a description of what he did with his. He also suggested Revolution/DART with the mini Ultra. No demos, just description.

I'm simply trying to help others out as best I can and feel in no way responsible to do so.

Nimrod said:

A comprehensive guide from the moment your lips touch the mouthpiece until thick (test puff) vapour is exhaled would be helpful. I`m sure this `forbidden knowledge` would save TET the hassle of having to deal with many so called duff units.

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hoptimum said:

Or a video demonstrating technique?

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Gentlemen, the job is open. Please feel free to proceed. Some will no doubt thank you for the effort, a few might even say so.

TV put a lot of effort in videos early on, they pulled some of them and stopped making more. I would not expect them to do it at this point.

Regards.

OF

OF said:

Actually that's not true. I was never "shown how to use" Cera any more than any of the other TV products. It would not be legal for them to do so I expect. Same as you, I got some verbal instructions as a starting point. And I understood the theory of operation of each unit from the start. Skills with T1 transferred to Evolution to Cera LL same as Revolution went to DART to Cera EO. I basically knew how to drive Cera long before there were Ceras. As did a goodly number of T1 and Evolution owners you'll find hanging about here. If anything, Cera LL is easier I think even though less powerful.

As with other vapes I worked it out for myself and make no claim past my suggested techniques working if followed. Be that here, with Omicron carts (or other W9 stuff), Ascent, VB or any others I suggest techniques on.

I suggested the 3 steps as a teaching tool, you'll notice they don't officially embrace it? The test puff suggestion from Tim was just that, a description of what he did with his. He also suggested Revolution/DART with the mini Ultra. No demos, just description.

I'm simply trying to help others out as best I can and feel in no way responsible to do so.





Gentlemen, the job is open. Please feel free to proceed. Some will no doubt thank you for the effort, a few might even say so.

TV put a lot of effort in videos early on, they pulled some of them and stopped making more. I would not expect them to do it at this point.

Regards.

OF

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OF, I do appreciate your expertise, I thought this would be understood, but in this one area I think you take for granted that users unaccustomed to the T1 or cigars fully understand the methodology you describe.

Nimrod said:

OF, I do appreciate your expertise, I thought this would be understood, but in this one area I think you take for granted that users unaccustomed to the T1 or cigars fully understand the methodology you describe.

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No, I just don't see my responsibility to repeat the same information over and over and over and over to those who either don't have the experience or figure it's easier to 'just ask it on the web'.......

It's all been spelled out by me dozens of times. Others as well. On several threads. Over a couple of years. Guys promise to research stuff before asking, can you honestly say you did that? That's what I "take for granted". Yes, I know there's lots to read.....but there is a search function and reading it is a whole lot easier than writing.....and it was a condition of joining:
"Lurk before posting. Please search and read before posting to see if your topic is already covered." (emphasis original to the rules)

Ironically one of the reasons these threads are so long is that we seem to repeat the same stuff over and over.

Feel free to avoid my advice if you wish, but please don't try to infer I should do more? TIA. As I said, feel free to do better?

Thanks for saying you appreciate the help I've given you.....good pickup on the hint!

OF

OF said:

No, I just don't see my responsibility to repeat the same information over and over and over and over to those who either don't have the experience or figure it's easier to 'just ask it on the web'.......

It's all been spelled out by me dozens of times. Others as well. On several threads. Over a couple of years. Guys promise to research stuff before asking, can you honestly say you did that? That's what I "take for granted". Yes, I know there's lots to read.....but there is a search function and reading it is a whole lot easier than writing.....and it was a condition of joining:
"Lurk before posting. Please search and read before posting to see if your topic is already covered." (emphasis original to the rules)

Ironically one of the reasons these threads are so long is that we seem to repeat the same stuff over and over.

Feel free to avoid my advice if you wish, but please don't try to infer I should do more? TIA. As I said, feel free to do better?

Thanks for saying you appreciate the help I've given you.....good pickup on the hint!

OF

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After reading about the test puff on vaporpedia, I have kept my eyes peeled for any extra information while reading all this forum. Admittedly at the time I was reading the threads, I had a hot switch and wasn`t always able to act upon information received thread by thread. Sometimes until you have a bit of experience it is hard to fine tune. I`m up to page 60 on the re-read, sure I`ll find some pearls of wisdom that I can relate to eventually ! Sorry you were upset by my terminology but I was inferring that newbies don`t understand the procedure rather than ignore your advice about the test puff. Would appreciate your opinion on whether a test puff is just as accessible with Moroccan Pollen. I do realise that hash is not designed for vaping and will always be a compromise. Hope I am breaking new ground with this line of enquiry !

Nimrod said:

Would appreciate your opinion on whether a test puff is just as accessible with Moroccan Pollen. I do realise that hash is not designed for vaping and will always be a compromise. Hope I am breaking new ground with this line of enquiry !

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I'm not sure what "accessible" is in this context, but yes, the test puff is a valid indication the load is at temperature, after all it's basically the exact same chemical involved, just more concentrated.

You'll find a fair bit of discussion on 'bubble hash' in the LL Cera. It's approved and works quite well. It (Cera LL) actually is designed to do this, it's something we asked for. Pressed mechanical hash is basically the same although you need to shave or grind it up so the hot air can get to it. Pollen comes ready to go but can IMO sometimes be too fine. You might consider a fine or extra fine 5/8 inch screen on top if it's too 'dusty' and wants to jam up the UFO filter. I usually use a screen in those cases.

OF