7th Floor - WFCM vs Ice Chamber

i have a ssv and i've been looking at the various water pipes and bongs they have. i was looking at either just getting a simple water pipe mouthpiece but they also have a 17 inch bong with multiple water chambers and an ice catcher for the same price. i was just wondering if it'd even be worth having something like that bong. since it's vapor and not smoke is there really any point in having it go through multiple water chambers? thanks

A lot of people might disagree with me, but I think multiple filtration chambers are unnecessary when vaporizing. Unless you really want something fancy (in which case, I can't blame you) I'd stick to something more simple. I haven't seen these 'multiple chamber' bongs, but I'm assuming by your description they have percolators.

I just find it unnecessary because of the potential for lost flavor/potency. I have a simple 12" bong with an ice ring.... I think it's perfect.

I'm sure others will chime in soon,
Let us know what you decide on....

My view would be to go with the single bong due to vaporizers being much better health wise the benefit of multiple chambers is not a big deal but then again im not really into the all nuances of complex bongs and the like so my view is slightly shortsighted.

Perhaps someone can give more reasons for complex bong or the like in vaping.

My :

Only the outside surface of a bubble is coming into contact with the water through which it passes. Therefore, alternative developments of filtration systems may increase the efficiency of this filtration process by increasing the amount of vaopr that comes into direct contact with water. Simultaneously, similar (not the same) processes are taking place which result in the condensation of the vapors the vaporist is trying to inhale. Many prefer filtration systems that maximize the filtration of undesired particles and provide a desirable degree of cooling (personal preference), yet contribute to a minimal amount of vapor loss due to condensation. The factors that impact this filtration process and inform a decision regarding ones selection of a water tool (bong or water pipe) are too diverse and complex to begin to list in their entirety, but include drag/flow/action/filtration/cooling/water-contact/concentration/dilution/etc. (which is attached to the individual's draw-speed/size-preference/temp-preference/heat-tolerance/herb-selection/etc).

Basically, ther are many factors, but ultimately it is your decision/personal preference.

Hope this helps.

Do I understand that just because it goes through the water one time only a portion of the actual vapor/smoke actually comes into contact with the water and is filtrated. If so generically what type of percentage would you say is filtered from one pass through the water.

Thank your for time.

In my anecdotal experience, the vapor that has passed through one water chamber is as filtered as I could ever need it. On top of that, the less air you have in your vapor path, the air you have to displace. This gives you a better air/vapor ratio, making for potentially thicker hits. fyi, where I'm from, water pipe is just another word for bong.

B - Do I understand that just because it goes through the water one time only a portion of the actual vapor/smoke actually comes into contact with the water and is filtrated.

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Sort of...Yes, the more times a gas travels through water, the more contact that gas is likely to have with the water due to time spent (hence more particle filtration). However, others factors, like the size of the bubbles may have more of an effect on particle filtration efficiency than time spent traveling through (larger bubbles have more gas in the center that isn't likely to come into contact with the water.

B - If so generically what type of percentage would you say is filtered from one pass through the water.

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Depends on many factors (action, bubble size, travel speed, temperatures, etc.) However, in general more contact with each molecule of vaporized material = more efficient filtration (twice as much contact = twice as much filtration?...)

Y - In my anecdotal experience, the vapor that has passed through one water chamber is as filtered as I could ever need it.

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As stated previously, (IMO) how to best cool/filter your vapor DOES come down to personal preference (some don't even like to use water filtration at all for various reasons)

Y - On top of that, the less air you have in your vapor path, the air you have to displace. This gives you a better air/vapor ratio, making for potentially thicker hits.

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I agree...My ideal set-up involves a great deal of mixing between the vapor and the water and as little mixing of the vapor and the air it is displacing in the tool (in as little space as is necessary to do this). I prefer this due to my interest in cooling the vapor to a comfortable temperature and filtering out dust/etc. particles that travel within the clouds of vapor that the individual is trying to inhale. The difficult part of creating such technology is figuring out a way to both create and contain such a degree of action (without becoming too large of a tool or splashing water into the mouth of the individual using it).

Y - fyi, where I'm from, water pipe is just another word for bong.

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Even hand-help waterpipes (we call them bubblers, shubblers, chubblers, etc.)?

I won't reiterate my preference for harmonic in-lines/etc., but will (rather) ask a rhetorical question...In your experiences which pieces create and contain this 'action' most effectively in the smallest space possible?

Hope this helps.

Toke it easy

thanks a lot guys i think i'm leaning towards the water pipe. here's pictures of the two.
and with the multiple filtrations is there really a point to it with vapor? wouldn't all the various small particles collect in the first water it comes into contact with sort of like an ash catcher if you were smoking?

wouldn't all the various small particles collect in the first water it comes into contact with sort of like an ash catcher if you were smoking?

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That's the idea, yes. Multiple chambers, percs, etc. aren't necessary for removing particulate matter. A single filtration should catch basically everything.

Hope you don't mind, I changed the title of this thread; "bong vs water pipe" could be a bit confusing.

V - That's the idea, yes. Multiple chambers, percs, etc. aren't necessary for removing particulate matter.

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I agree. Water filtration isn't even necessary at all to remove particulate matter (the elbow of the Extreme seems to do a pretty good job without water, right?)

V - A single filtration should catch basically everything.

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I disagree. It may remove all of the particles that are visible to the naked eye, but definitely not all afaik. IMO, the best ways to do this are by squeezing the vapor through as small/thin of an area as possible (a slit?) to increase the contact area of the vapor passing through the water and decreasing the amount of vapor inside of the walls of the bubble that does not have contact with the water through which it is passing (repeated passes help as well IMO/E).

Squeezing the vapor through a small/thin hole/slit may be effective for increasing surface area to remove more particulate matter, but will probably make the draw too tight for the individual (hence, the common use of multiple slits/holes).

TJ - thanks a lot guys i think i'm leaning towards the water pipe. here's pictures of the two.

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As far as your decision...I like to have a variety of different style tools (or sometimes none at all ). My question would be which to get first (small to large, extremely-filtered to unfiltered, dilution/concentration of vapor, cold vs. manual cooling). Time available, company, mood, cleanliness, etc. usually dictate which tool(s) I choose to take out.

Hope this helps you identify your preferences and find the most appropriate tool(s) for yourself.

basically
adv.
1.In a basic way; fundamentally or essentially
2. For the most part; chiefly

/smartass

It may remove all of the particles that are visible to the naked eye, but definitely not all afaik.

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Can you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested.

V - basically adv. 1.In a basic way; fundamentally or essentially 2. For the most part; chiefly /smartass

It may remove all of the particles that are visible to the naked eye, but definitely not all afaik.

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Can you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested.

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Yes, maybe we have different ideas of what 'basically everything' means. In particular, even the most advanced filtration system may not remove 100% of the undesired components from a body of vapor (which would be the 'everything' of 'basically everything'). The fact that I can feel/taste the difference between the de-verdamper with it's large-bubble-creating down-stem and filled with small beads (applies to many other vapes too) leads me to believe that the original filtration system (single filtration) does not remove 'basically everything' (after all, I can detect the difference with out any scientific equipment--using only my 5 senses). Personally, due to these factors, I would phrase the comment in question as, "a single filtration should catch a large portion of the undesired particles that may be found in vapor, which may be enough filtration for most (IMO) vaporists (with the rare exception of spoiled and picky 'fuckers' like that Progress guy )

Hope this helps.

edit:
Response to comments below:

TJ - i'm going to go with the water pipe and see how i like it and go from there. progress i really appreciate hearing all those explanations i had wondered about a lot of that stuff for a while.
B - Thank you progress your explanations and time is greatly apprecriated and helpful.

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You're both welcome, and thank you both for your kind words

TJ - 'm curious what do you use when you're vaping? or if there's too many what are your favorites

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If you read some of my posts in this thread http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=451 they should give you an idea (you may enjoy the thread too). Additionally, I enjoy using innovative creations that meet the preferences referenced (some of the most memorable were actually made with pieces and spare vape tubing, etc. (10' of barely-slitted tubing in the base of an old 70's vase style bong ). My favorite actual piece ATM would have to be the mirror-inline harmonic (two inlines with slits facing each other inside of one with the slits facing down) because it is so effective yet tiny . I also really like the simple yet novel and very effective technology of channels used with a round bead in each (as the vapor passes the beads they move towards the top of the channel where they'd get stopped, therefore allowing for a splash-free 'power-clear' in a small, action-packed piece)

i'm going to go with the water pipe and see how i like it and go from there. progress i really appreciate hearing all those explanations i had wondered about a lot of that stuff for a while. i'm curious what do you use when you're vaping? or if there's too many what are your favorites

Thank you progress your explanations and time is greatly apprecriated and helpful.