Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud EVO

Quetzalcoatl said:

Dark ABV is nice to see, but I have to agree with you. ABV color isn't entirely important. It's the chlorophyll that's being browned, as most of the cannabinoids are in the trichome glands and some in the plant matter. I like dark ABV for the CBD's and whatever CBN's I can get.

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Since I got my EVO I've been getting better and better about getting dark ABV out of it. I don't like emptying a bowl if I don't have my CBN and CBDs

kimura said:

.... ABV color may not have as direct a correlation to "functional extraction" as I have been lead to believe...

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Actually, I have been going trying to figure this out lately too... between the other New Vape I got and now EVO too, my abv is all light brown/blond

But there's as much a feeling of extraction (if not moreso as others have said so far) as there ever was with the Tick/OG or +.

Tip of the Spear ladies and gentlemen.

Thought I was dry tonight, only to open my old sharpstone and find a TON of kief and ground weed in there. Don't even care that's it's been sitting in there a month, it's dry, still got crystals, and the EVO milks the shit out of anything anyways.

This went from a dry sad night to a glorious cloudy night.

Dr. Plutonious said:

Thought I was dry tonight, only to open my old sharpstone and find a TON of kief and ground weed in there. Don't even care that's it's been sitting in there a month, it's dry, still got crystals, and the EVO milks the shit out of anything anyways.

This went from a dry sad night to a glorious cloudy night.

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Today I was driving around hitting my Solo thinking of how if I was trapped in a bomb shelter for months with only an 8th an Evo MIGHT be able to make me survive the wait

Oh well. high thoughts. hope i have a couple ounces if thats ever the case

3 fat hits in with the M&M Tech and I'm feeling it. 1/3 filled ELB with a good helping of kief on top.

I have never seen a piece more milked. Even by the sub. This was solid white for multiple hits so far, and M&M Tech is usually a bowl hog with vapes to to it's size. First time I've really loaded the kief into the EVO and results are feeling close to dab like.

I did a few more hits while writing this. The 5th hit finally thinned out. My rips were each quite large. The EVO does Kief better than anything I've ever tried by FAR. I find it better when you mix it with ground weed though rather than all kief.

Oh gosh i am willing to have an experience on the EVO to place it in my theory of vaporization!

Dr. Plutonious said:

The EVO does Kief better than anything I've ever tried by FAR.

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I LOVE the EVO for kief. It whitewalls the glass quite a few times with just a little bit on the bottom of the ELB. I can nurse an ELB of kief for quite a while, and I absolutely love the high.

My new ritual has been to start off my Saturday doing some grinding and enjoying a couple ELBs of the kief I get.

Saturdays are a lot of fun now

I agree with Kimura, even if he says he doesn't know what he is talking about. I have found darker abv to be a function of more conduction rather than more extraction. All of my conduction vapes get the load darker, and they get it there quicker. They also feel sleepier due to the higher amount of thc being converted to cbn.

The herbalizer gets better extraction with lighter abv due to it hitting the load immediately at the desired temp. My guess is that the EVO can do something similar to this if the elb is dropped into the unit once heated and hit immediately. But I think the turbulence is key. Alan has dropped some valuable nuggets here and there about thermal/fluid dynamics and how a roughed up air path that causes more turbulence causes the entire air stream to be heated and not just the edges (the air along the edges of a smooth air path can get 'stuck' on the side and stay hot while cooler air travels up the center). So the turbulence in the EVO's air path allows all the air to hit the elb at the right temp immediately instead of cooler air that takes longer to do its job, resulting in more conduction taking place. Also, since the thermocouples are on the outside of the air path, we get a more accurate reading of the air that is actually coming out of the EVO when there is turbulence instead of reading the air that is stuck to the insides of the air path.

End result with turbulence is a more consistently heated air path that can be more accurately sensed and read, which can result in better/more complete extraction of thc.

I am not a scientist.

stickstones said:

I have found darker abv to be a function of more conduction rather than more extraction. All of my conduction vapes get the load darker, and they get it there quicker. They also feel sleepier due to the higher amount of thc being converted to cbn.

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I totally agree. I would like to add to that thought though.

I think when we are talking about darker abv, not only has the above mentioned effect going on. but the plant material itself is getting taken closer and closer to the point of combustion. as a result, other things (not necessarily plant material) could in fact burn off at a lower temp. things have different combustion temperatures right?

I think this is why those vapes that give me an abv that looks spotted (having dark and sometimes even black bits) rather than evenly vaped abv can leave me burnt out. that is something that doesn't normally happen when i vape with lower temps. (or a vape that colours the herb evenly throughout the session)

because of this, I am also a big fan of stirring my herbs in almost all my vapes too.

The load is going to turn black for one of two reasons:

1 -- conduction heating through physical touch
2 -- being too close to the heat source and getting scorched

Either way, I believe it is damaging to the actives we are looking for. My LSV heats unevenly compared to the Cloud, so I continually get dark spots and require stirring to keep it even. However, all I am doing is moving the scorched material around so as to bring unharmed material into the scorch zone to get a more even, scorched color. More accurate temp control and more even distribution of evenly heated air remedies this. None of this, however, addresses the issue of reported higher highs from users.

Almost everyone feels higher with a new vape due to its change in vape signature...it acts like a tolerance change that your system is not used to. However, I think these two new vapes (the EVO when used correctly, and the Herbalizer) offer something additional by going from room temp to the desired temp instantly and changing the actives released. There is something with the terps, I believe, that changes the chemical reaction when they are included in the thc release at higher temps.

I know dark ABV is not the only indicator when herb is thoroughly vaporized. The thing is that I can put the light green/tan ABV from the EVO on max into the Plus set at 3 and get one thick rip and one wispy hit out of it. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean there is still some goodies left in a "spent" EVO ELB?

DrPiff said:

I know dark ABV is not the only indicator when herb is thoroughly vaporized. The thing is that I can put the light green/tan ABV from the EVO on max into the Plus set at 3 and get one thick rip and one wispy hit out of it. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean there is still some goodies left in a "spent" EVO ELB?

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We aren't talking about your unit per se (did I even use that correctly, it's early ) but postulating and hypothesizing on the physics involved in vaporization and variables that are now just coming to light.

stickstones said:

However, I think these two new vapes (the EVO when used correctly, and the Herbalizer) offer something additional by going from room temp to the desired temp instantly and changing the actives released. There is something with the terps, I believe, that changes the chemical reaction when they are included in the thc release at higher temps.

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I think you are on to something here, focusing on the rate at which the entire load is brought up to operating temps. bringing the entire contents of the ELB up to targeted temps extremely quickly may reduce the % of actives that get converted into less desirable compounds before they are liberated into your lungs. also I agree that fewer terpenes are lost in an extremely rapid extraction. I have noticed that if I drop an ELB into the EVO, it will start to smell delicious in a few seconds. this is lost medicine. as you know, some of the good terpenes have a very low boiling point. and I believe it is pretty well established that some terpenes act as THC agonists, increasing desired effects.

keeping this in mind, I have made a habit of inserting the ELB at the VERY last second, hitting it immediately, and removing it as soon as I am done with the hit. when I use my bubbler, I will literally hold the ELB upside down over the dewaar joint, hold the inverted EVO over the ELB, and in almost one motion, lower the EVO onto the ELB and into the joint. and then I hit it immediately. this method does not produce as dark ABV as when I was "lazier" with the ELB, however it gets me profoundly medicated. even at 3:00, the ABV is not always very dark (strain dependent). and I can hit it to the point at which absolutely no more vapor is being produced, but with no burnt popcorn taste (which I am theorizing is a product of conduction/too much decarb).

DrPiff said:

I know dark ABV is not the only indicator when herb is thoroughly vaporized. The thing is that I can put the light green/tan ABV from the EVO on max into the Plus set at 3 and get one thick rip and one wispy hit out of it. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean there is still some goodies left in a "spent" EVO ELB?

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can you actually measure the temperatures of both of your units on max? also, and this might be changing the subject, but are we sure that all visible vapor is actually desirable medicine?

EDIT: oops, two in a row. sorry, MODs: please merge

kimura, to further support our claim anecdotally, SliM noticed a difference in the hit the Sublimator produced and he thinks it is due to the lost terps. The Sub is designed such that you drop your herb into a heated metal chamber, cover it and hit it. You can always smell the terps before putting the top on it. SliM noticed that he didn't get the high temp effects he was looking for (near combustion effects) and he surmised that the lost terps were changing the effect. It's taken us a long time and lots of trials, but I think we are onto something big here...

@DrPiff -- Does the color of your abv become significantly darker after you run it a second time through the Cloud+?

stonemonkey55 said:

We aren't talking about your unit per se (did I even use that correctly, it's early ) but postulating and hypothesizing on the physics involved in vaporization and variables that are now just coming to light.

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I know it wasn't about my unit. Just chiming in with my experience

stickstones said:

@DrPiff -- Does the color of your abv become significantly darker after you run it a second time through the Cloud+?

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Yes color changes from tan to dark brown after one hit.

It seems I can get super dark ABV or tan, dust like ABV depending on the heat settings I use.

I find that sometimes I can get dark ABV and sometimes I can't. However, I would say I am equally medicated. I think and this is a big I think, if I leave the ELB and let it heat soak for a bit and then take a hit, I can get the ABV darker, and if I pull out between hits, I can't get it as dark.
Again, this could just be a fluke. Also, I think it really depends on the strain. I use multiple strains and some strains I can get darker than other ones. It's interesting.

Either way, this thing is amazing. Oh, and I just kept using the original cord, now it's easy to come out for me. Everything is fine. (I did buy another cord, but I haven't needed it).

FedEx surprised me with an early 10am delivery!

Just had my first session with the EVO, and am loving it so far. Did one small 1/3 ELB, and then one large 3/4 ELB.

I'm very pleased with the unit so far, will report back in a day or two after I can experiment with it some more.

Thanks VapeXhale!

newVaper420:
I think browning is a slower proccess than actual vaporizing and I believe the EVO is capable of extracting it all before it gets browned. Even my Cloud+ was able to do this. But when I continued to hit it and get nothing and it will get browned eventualy. So I could get light brown ABV on 3 if I only hit it once or medium brown on 1 if I hit it many times until less than nothing comes out. Both ABVs would be fully extracted, but if I hit the light ABV on 3 some more it would get darker than the 1hrs dial.

I believe the EVO is even more capable of this effect of extracting it all before browning starts.
That, plus the hot max dials on some EVOs, could also fit how the EVO combusts. You can dial a combusting temp, but not combust at it until the load is super dry. Because there are no hotspots the Cloud is able to deliver an intense VAPOR hit at combustion temp and still keep it from combusting. But when it gets dry enough, BAM, the whole bowl ignites at once! With other vapes this is impossible as the hotspot easily ignites even the fresh load wheh you are nearing these temps. You can combust at the hotspot with the EQ yet on the edges the load will remain green. This is the difference between the Cloud combustion and a regular convection vape combustion imo.

Seek said:

newVaper420:
I think browning is a slower proccess than actual vaporizing and I believe the EVO is capable of extracting it all before it gets browned. Even my Cloud+ was able to do this. But when I continued to hit it and get nothing and it will get browned eventualy. So I could get light brown ABV on 3 if I only hit it once or medium brown on 1 if I hit it many times until less than nothing comes out. Both ABVs would be fully extracted, but if I hit the light ABV on 3 some more it would get darker than the 1hrs dial.

I believe the EVO is even more capable of this effect of extracting it all before browning starts.
That, plus the hot max dials on some EVOs, could also fit how the EVO combusts. You can dial a combusting temp, but not combust at it until the load is super dry. Because there are no hotspots the Cloud is able to deliver an intense VAPOR hit at combustion temp and still keep it from combusting. But when it gets dry enough, BAM, the whole bowl ignites at once! With other vapes this is impossible as the hotspot easily ignites even the fresh load wheh you are nearing these temps. You can combust at the hotspot with the EQ yet on the edges the load will remain green. This is the difference between the Cloud combustion and a regular convection vape combustion imo.

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Completely understand what you are saying. However, what I'm saying is that let's say I put an ELB in, and take 5 hits. The 6 hit, I get nothing out, no vapor, nothing. When I pull it out, it's tan. In between hits, I take the ELB out.

Now let's say in between hits I leave the ELB in, and I'm taking the same amount of hits. By the end, I believe this material will be darker material.

Of course, this is all conjecture. I have yet to figure out how to get it to brown all the time, but again, I'm not even sure that's necessary

stickstones said:

kimura, to further support our claim anecdotally, SliM noticed a difference in the hit the Sublimator produced and he thinks it is due to the lost terps. The Sub is designed such that you drop your herb into a heated metal chamber, cover it and hit it. You can always smell the terps before putting the top on it. SliM noticed that he didn't get the high temp effects he was looking for (near combustion effects) and he surmised that the lost terps were changing the effect. It's taken us a long time and lots of trials, but I think we are onto something big here...

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As somebody that's lucky enough to have both of these fantastic vapes atm, I have noticed that the sublimator gets abv the darkest, followed by the cloud and then the herbalizer. The sub has a couple of other unique characteristics however. The first has been discussed, that it offers more of a hammer2daHead thc buzz, by leaving much of the cbn/cbd effects behind in the sublimate for later consumption.

But what I thought might be appropriate to this conversation,
is the second unique characteristic of the sub.

The avb puck that it leaves behind, which is consistently dark brown throughout, is encrusted in a lighter more golden color. This leads me to surmise that the sublimator does not just vaporize via convection and conduction, but radiant heat as well, since the darker color is indicative of higher heat being applied to the center of the puck.

Anyone have any combustion issues with the EVO lately? Since I've got mine back it's been rock steady. Haven't come close to combusting once.

That's honestly my biggest pet peeve with a lot of my friends is they make my vapes combust and then I have to clean glass and stems. Not with the EVO though

Dr. Plutonious said:

Anyone have any combustion issues with the EVO lately? Since I've got mine back it's been rock steady. Haven't come close to combusting once.

That's honestly my biggest pet peeve with a lot of my friends is they make my vapes combust and then I have to clean glass and stems. Not with the EVO though

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I have not reached combustion. At any point. Is this unit supposed to have that ability somewhere along the dial?

Dr. Plutonious said:

3 fat hits in with the M&M Tech and I'm feeling it. 1/3 filled ELB with a good helping of kief on top.

I have never seen a piece more milked. Even by the sub. This was solid white for multiple hits so far, and M&M Tech is usually a bowl hog with vapes to to it's size. First time I've really loaded the kief into the EVO and results are feeling close to dab like.

I did a few more hits while writing this. The 5th hit finally thinned out. My rips were each quite large. The EVO does Kief better than anything I've ever tried by FAR. I find it better when you mix it with ground weed though rather than all kief.

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Hell yea!! Check out my vids I posted a kief only hit.