Caligula
Maximus
Oh thats what the whole trial use thing is.
David Goldstein's Fritted Disc
- Thread starter MarcellusWiley
- Start date
Caligula
Maximus
So I was on the DG website and I saw this:
http://roosterapparatus.com/sale/
Now im not familiar with his line or how "seconds" work so im wondering if this is worth while and if so which one I should be looking at. Hell it seems some of those just have crooked decals while others have major defects?
I see they reference "convertible" units which come with female adapters but I dont even know which kind this includes? Ideally I want a bent neck bubbler style for vaping flowers.
I hadn't considered GD pieces before but these prices are nice.
http://roosterapparatus.com/sale/
Now im not familiar with his line or how "seconds" work so im wondering if this is worth while and if so which one I should be looking at. Hell it seems some of those just have crooked decals while others have major defects?
I see they reference "convertible" units which come with female adapters but I dont even know which kind this includes? Ideally I want a bent neck bubbler style for vaping flowers.
I hadn't considered GD pieces before but these prices are nice.
VapeNStone
Mark
Damn I want this sidecar!
Just keep in mind there is a lot of details involved in actually using a fritted disc that a simple water test does not reveal. Much more so than with other perc types.Water tested a DG today at piece of mind in u district. Bad idea, I must have one now
Caligula
Maximus
....and thennnnnn?
Vdabber
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I understand they need to be cleaned often or they clog. I'd only be vaping through it and I'm pretty good about cleaning my pieces so I think I'd be fine.
I think I'm going to wait until hempfest to see if there's any deals though.
equatorgringo
Well-Known Member
Could you indulge a bit? Have a frit piece on the way, just never really thought if it had extra details for using it...it just the cleaning aspect?
Yeah, didn't mean anything too sinister. Just the constant cleaning, and with concentrates, you have to use really warm water. No shocking revelations.
equatorgringo
Well-Known Member
Ahhh gotcha thanks. I should be fine vaping with it then...will just make sure to use a screen on the solo to help any escaping bits and hairs getting caught up in the frit to ease the cleaning process.
aj0125
Well-Known Member
I vape and dab out of mine all the time. I don't know what others consider frequent cleaning but it is no big deal at all to me, this is quickly becoming one of my favorite pieces. Just use room temp or a little warmer water and you will be golden. Honestly my mobius stereo matrix bubbler is much more of a pain in the ass to clean than my little rooster, especially if any reclaim is desired, though the rooster does need it more.
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Yeah, I have no special cleaning routines for my dg pieces compared to everything else I own.
Just pbw it whenever the buildup on the sides gets to a point where the piece has a bit of a smell to it...
I use the pre-filter frit when I'm using my LSV, as it lets a fair big of particulates through, and that does seem to collect a fair amount of debris, but even when it's really brown looking and fairly clogged, it doesn't restrict the resistance of the piece that much.
It's noticeable but not uncomfortable.
I have never, ever experienced the main frit clogging.
I usually put fridge-cold water in all my pieces, so the first hit is cooler, but the water warms up to room temp fairly quickly, so that's the temp of the water for most of my hits.
Resblock/cranberry extract helps, but I have noticed that it causes the water to need to be changed more often than other pieces.
Just pbw it whenever the buildup on the sides gets to a point where the piece has a bit of a smell to it...
I use the pre-filter frit when I'm using my LSV, as it lets a fair big of particulates through, and that does seem to collect a fair amount of debris, but even when it's really brown looking and fairly clogged, it doesn't restrict the resistance of the piece that much.
It's noticeable but not uncomfortable.
I have never, ever experienced the main frit clogging.
I usually put fridge-cold water in all my pieces, so the first hit is cooler, but the water warms up to room temp fairly quickly, so that's the temp of the water for most of my hits.
Resblock/cranberry extract helps, but I have noticed that it causes the water to need to be changed more often than other pieces.
Anonymouse
Sith I care
If you're using a cotton pre-filter to screen the larger resin particles, the clogging should be basically a non-issue. "Blue vapour" (the really fine mist that's left) builds up residue on glass both very evenly and really slowly.
Using warm water will warm the glass it touches (i.e., the frit) and change this, though, in that resin sticks to warm glass far more readily than cooler glass, and also hydrates (sticks a bunch of water molecules to various molecular components of itself via hydrogen bonding) much more readily when passed through warm water too, which adds to its volume (and stickiness) and I'd expect would massivley increase the rate of channel clogging. Why do you have to use warm water? Yes, it'll add more water vapour to the hit, but the fizzy microdroplets a frit makes should add more than enough for comfort even at room temperature, and most people prefer a lower level of conditioning in an oil rig anyway.
BTW, depending on your situation it might be good idea to retain that water; the resin that would've condensed on the glass is in there in suspension, and can be recovered by evapourating off the water then dissolving in iso to dehydrate it back to clear (or at least clearer) oil, and filtering the solution through a coffee filter to take out all the water-soluble crap left in suspension then evapourating the iso and scraping the residue like with making QWISO oil. It's not exactly tasty, though, but it's not a big hassle if you just keep tipping your pieces out into a tray and letting a film build up in the bottom 'til for whatever reason you need to harvest it.
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aj0125
Well-Known Member
I don't know the science behind it just personal (and Dave's) experience. If I use room temp or slightly warmer water when dabbing there is no clogging. If I use cold water there is definite clogging. As far as using it solely as a vapor delivery device the water temp does not seem to make a big difference in my experience.
Anonymouse
Sith I care
The only hypothesis I can think of is that the combination of bulk flash-evapouration, which produces really large, irregular-shaped droplets, and refrigerator-level temperatures (at which resin is not very sticky, but is quite firm and solid) may let the stuff pack up mechanically without actually fully fusing, and, when shoved into tight channels by air pressure, pack together and accrete into a mass with a larger aggregate volume than the volume of resin invovled, due to all the micro voids in the mass between the irregular, solid particles. Then the water present hydrates the huge surface area exposed through the channels in the mass and sets it into a thicker layer than would otherwise form, or some similar phenomenon?
I guess some real science needs to be done.
The post I quoted specified "really warm" water, though, and that you "had to" use it, and that left me wondering why it was necessary, since it seems like something that'd actually be detrimental for the reasons previously mentioned. Generally the only reason to use very warm water is to up the comfort level of a lower diffusion piece. It'll gum up your walls somewhat quicker but it's extremely effective in adding comfort.
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aj0125
Well-Known Member
I figured it was just the concentrate re-solidifying in the tiny holes in the frit due to the cold water temp bringing the vapor back to a solid state, but I like your explanation better.
Lets get the scientists working on a study, The line forms to the rear for test subjects...
Anonymouse
Sith I care
If you can see the "vapour", it's already condensed. The mist is a suspension of semi-liquid or solidified droplets in air. If said air's below the vapourisation temp, the resin is no longer actually vapour, it condenses. While the air is above vapourisation point, the resin present is a true vapour, i.e., a gas, and is pretty-much invisible, as it seems to be colourless. If you've ever used a light-bulb vape where the gas inside can get well over 200C, this is why you'll see almost no "vapour" in there until you start you inhale (sucking in fresh, cold air, and dropping the air temp inside the bulb below vaping temp/condensation point) and huge, swirling clouds magically and spontaneously appear inside the bulb out of apparently thin air. The near-invisible resin gas that was already present condenses into a cloud of light-scattering droplets that are visible.
We're in a weird place where what we call "vapour", technically isn't. I think "mist" is probably a better term for what you inhale. Vapourisers do indeed vapourise resin, it's just that it stops being vapour almost immediately, long before it gets to your mouth, let alone your lungs. But then you wouldn't actually want a 200C+ (400F+) gas present inside your lungs, gleefully dumping its latent heat of vapourisation into your tender alveoli, trust me.
But yeah, this condensation happens before the "vapour" ever reaches a perk, any water at all, or even the end of a joint. Then we're dealing with the fluid dynamics of air carrying lots of tiny sticky things, but at the size of these tiny things, air is actually pretty thick and syrupy, which is why they seem to ignore gravity and float happily about the room, much like grains of sand take a long time to sink in honey or molasses. Physics can get really counter-intuitive when things get really big or really small.
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Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Lovin' the discussion here, just wanted to add that I don't really trust evapping off a water/cranberry solution to get to the resin locked up in there.
The amount of resin would have to be negligible, an I don't trust it to not leave any residual cranberry stuff in there, which I don't like the idea of vaping...
Tbh, I wouldn't even do an ISO rinse of a piece that's had cranberry in it until after I've given it a pbw wash...
The amount of resin would have to be negligible, an I don't trust it to not leave any residual cranberry stuff in there, which I don't like the idea of vaping...
Tbh, I wouldn't even do an ISO rinse of a piece that's had cranberry in it until after I've given it a pbw wash...
friedricey
being human
i use imgur
Anonymouse
Sith I care
It's not massive; by far the bulk of each hit gets past the water and glass without sticking to a surface or being caught in colloidal suspension, but it's not negligible, either. In terms of return on effort, it wouldn't be worth harvesting every time you change your water, but I wasn't suggesting doing that.
But you inhale an aerosol of it every time you use a rez-block solution anyway? Plus why doesn't heating bulk raw flower tissue make you nervous, but tiny traces of dried fruit juice does?
Or is it purely a taste concern? I guess I wasn't very clear in my wording there; by "not tasty" I didn't mean that the flavour is unpleasant or objectionable, it's just lacking, like bulk QWISO. All the volatile organic stuff that provides flavour is gone.
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Fair points,
My hesitations aren't really based on any fact, it just makes me a bit uneasy.
I misread your post and did think you meant evap after each water change, so yeah, I'm sure after you gathered up enough resblock water there'd be enough actives in there to make it worthwhile, but I don't particularly want to start hoarding used bong water
I do feel comfortable vaping herb, it's got an incredibly long history of being consumed by inhalation, which is something I can't necessarily say about cranberries.
There's also the risk reward trade off. With MJ, there's the reward (for me) of getting high.
With cranberry extract (from a vaporization standpoint) there's no reward (well, I guess there's the actives trapped in the water, but that doesn't seem like enough to justify it for me), so any potential added risk would be enough for me to not want to do it.
Also, by the time we've evapped off the resblock solution, aren't we essentially making a reclaim oil and resblock concentrate?
Is there any reason to think the concentrated resblock wouldn't make it through the filtering process?
Then there's the microbial growth issue.
The cranberry extract solution is far more conducive to nasties growing in it than water on its own. Concentrating that down doesn't seem like a food idea to me...
As for inhaling aerosolized rezblock while using it, can I try to throw out "negligible" again
I don't have any hard numbers, but I'd be shocked if I ended up inhaling even 1% of the rezblock from its normal recommended use.
By evapping it, then vaping what remains, I'd think I'd be inhaling a large % of it.
My hesitations aren't really based on any fact, it just makes me a bit uneasy.
I misread your post and did think you meant evap after each water change, so yeah, I'm sure after you gathered up enough resblock water there'd be enough actives in there to make it worthwhile, but I don't particularly want to start hoarding used bong water
I do feel comfortable vaping herb, it's got an incredibly long history of being consumed by inhalation, which is something I can't necessarily say about cranberries.
There's also the risk reward trade off. With MJ, there's the reward (for me) of getting high.
With cranberry extract (from a vaporization standpoint) there's no reward (well, I guess there's the actives trapped in the water, but that doesn't seem like enough to justify it for me), so any potential added risk would be enough for me to not want to do it.
Also, by the time we've evapped off the resblock solution, aren't we essentially making a reclaim oil and resblock concentrate?
Is there any reason to think the concentrated resblock wouldn't make it through the filtering process?
Then there's the microbial growth issue.
The cranberry extract solution is far more conducive to nasties growing in it than water on its own. Concentrating that down doesn't seem like a food idea to me...
As for inhaling aerosolized rezblock while using it, can I try to throw out "negligible" again
I don't have any hard numbers, but I'd be shocked if I ended up inhaling even 1% of the rezblock from its normal recommended use.
By evapping it, then vaping what remains, I'd think I'd be inhaling a large % of it.
Anonymouse
Sith I care
Fair points,
My hesitations aren't really based on any fact, it just makes me a bit uneasy.
I misread your post and did think you meant evap after each water change, so yeah, I'm sure after you gathered up enough resblock water there'd be enough actives in there to make it worthwhile, but I don't particularly want to start hoarding used bong water
You wouldn't be. You'd just have a dirty tray somewhere. By the time you tip the next lot of water in, the previous lot is a dry film on the bottom.
Cranberries have an even longer history of being put into our bodies.
The "reward" is the same in either case, "getting high", as you put it. As is the risk, really. If it really bothers you that much, though, just cook with it instead.
At that point, yes, but you don't use that stuff directly yet. It's still an interrim stage. The iso wash removes the ionic salts (all the rezblock shit or cranberry extract), and just leaves the non-polar stuff behind (resins, fats and waxes). Polar ionic salts don't significantly dissolve in isopropyl alcohol, so they precipitate into crystals, which can be mechanically filtered. This is the point of the iso wash and filtration step.
A tiny, tiny (stress, tiny) amount of crystals might be small enough to pass through your filter, but here we really can use the word "negligible"; we're long past the point where "concentrated" would apply. Even if they were present in significant volume, though, the vapourisation temp of most ionic salts is well above that of resin, so they'd stay behind while resin evapourated. Even particles lifted mechanically by airflow would be insignificant compared to all the random dust and particulate in the air already. And even if arriving at your lungs in non-negligible amounts (which isn't happening), these substances are soluble and well-established by long use as non-toxic
Not an issue. Concentrated isopropanol denature proteins and dehydrates complexed water, so it kills any micro-organisms present. Even particularly hardy bacterial endospores that somehow survive intact would be destroyed by vaping temps, and even if this weren't the case, their quantity would be insignificant compared to all the random live spores and other greebies you inhale with every natural breath anyway.
BTW, cranberry juice is actually mildy anti-microbial, so arguably safer than straight water as far as risk of lung infection goes, especially if you change water or clean irregularly.
As for inhaling aerosolized rezblock while using it, can I try to throw out "negligible" again
I don't have any hard numbers, but I'd be shocked if I ended up inhaling even 1% of the rezblock from its normal recommended use.
I'd be shocked if you inhaled 1% of the solution, too, but the point is that the amount you inhale by doing so is still going to be many, many, many times more than the amount left after iso washing and filtering. The evapourating of your rez-block solution doesn't carry any rez-block chemicals, liberating only pure water by nature of the process, but the cloud of tiny liquid water droplets also liberated mechanically by the percolation action do carry dissolved salts all the way into your lungs. It's just that this isn't a big deal.
Yeah, but you wouldn't be "evapping it, then vaping what remains". You'd be doing that, then applying a process that removes the cranberry extract, then vaping what's left, which should be a pretty tranparent, and rather viscous "oil". That filtering step I mentioned.
But wow, now we're really really off-topic. :/
