Discontinued Thermovape Cera

Quetzalcoatl said:

The Clear is a super clean concentrate. It's like CO2 oil but without using CO2, instead using heat and pressure to extract.

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Thanks, Q man, sounds well worth checking out. If it's really like CO2 oil in terms of vaping free it should be a real treat. It sounds like it's wax free, so the THC level should be quite high? How's the taste? With CO2 oils I'm OK with the lower THC levels you usually see because I like the flavor that usually comes with it.

Something else to look for in the Dispensary case......the modern day 'kid in a candy shop'.

TIA

OF

Cheers everyone to a beautiful life. So got me Cera in today, and did a few jumps for joy. Here's what I did first and first impressions.

Solid device. well made and for the most part well put together. I got the EO kit, but it didn't come with the 510 mouthpiece in the container, only the LL mouthpiece. ? my misunderstanding or just not in the packaging? The EO cart was a little more dinged up looking than I expected, and there was also a reasonable amount of tiny ceramic pieces I had to blow off of much of the unit/ cart. The bottom part that is held on by the 4 screws (the threaded part of the cart) wasn't (isn't) in line with the rest of the unit either, its at a slight angle. All problems that so far don't seem huge, but some things I wasn't expecting/ am curious if are the usual/ sound like they will affect performance or should be mentioned to TET. I really don't want to have to send it back right now, after just having gotten it. if any of that does sound out of the usual anyways.

I rinsed the cart out with ISO and rinsed and dried it up over a few hours at 200f with a very passive type clean heat. assembled it back up, and began melting some concentrate into the wafer.

Performance wise, I'm getting there. It seemed very difficult to get primed with the first good bit like everyone recommends, followed by the next. I think its to the point of feeding now though, but had to tap out from testing for a bit. wow. seems like once I get the hang of it, I'll be in love. back to what I forgot to mention about my observations of the cart. the top wafer seems to be not flat, but at a slight angle as well. The spring on the endcap/ switch isn't as bulky as I'd of expected either, which there may be a reason for, but it doesn't put enough up pressure to keep the battery from moving around a bit in the body.

It is a heavy, quality piece, which I dig the feel of, but I'm still slightly offset by some of what I've mentioned. I have a tendency to be overcritical in examining new things sometimes, but at the price point this is at I'm not sure I am being overcritical? whats y'alls input?

On to the plus side. like I said, quality components. love all the ceramic. It is a nice unit. Flavor is amazing, after getting past the core being dry and getting it to feed into the center.

I'm a bit (a lot) more medicated than usual, so hopefully that's readable guys. would appreciate some input. Peace

So after a little smoothie break .. which oh my.. I haven't consumed that much essential oil probably ever.. I got back to it and it seems to be feeding well. wicking down and staying absorbed into or below the wafer, as opposed to what it was doing which was pulling up out of the wafer even with extremely light inhalations.

The wafer is back to being flat. does anyone know how it is supported? or if it is entirely floating in there? I did a test after heating it up well, so there would be no resistance from the oil. I VERY gently and delicately took a dental pick and put the tip of it in between the wafer and SS chamber, and with NO pressure besides the weight of the dental pick, not wedged just lightly resting so really only less than half its weight (not exaggeration on the amount of pressure the wafer didn't feel here), it moved back into a proper looking position. functions well.

It does occasionally miss. using it through a waterpipe, it will begin to produce vapor and then stop. by letting off of the button it will again start producing right away. on these occasions even if I hold the button for 8-10 seconds it doesn't go until I let off and press again. may be technique or break in period, so shall see what changes. I'm enjoying this getting acquainted period. definitely still improving technique, these are just my first results. SUCH a tasty clean vapor though now that it is more broken in.

Is the battery okay to be charged at any point in its life cycle, or only once totally drained? I did not charge it, but hooked it up to the volt meter and it read in at 4.2v. awesome.

Do not drain the battery all the way.. Charge when you like

MediCaTed101 said:

So after a little smoothie break .. which oh my.. I haven't consumed that much essential oil probably ever.. I got back to it and it seems to be feeding well. wicking down and staying absorbed into or below the wafer, as opposed to what it was doing which was pulling up out of the wafer even with extremely light inhalations.

The wafer is back to being flat. does anyone know how it is supported? or if it is entirely floating in there? I did a test after heating it up well, so there would be no resistance from the oil. I VERY gently and delicately took a dental pick and put the tip of it in between the wafer and SS chamber, and with NO pressure besides the weight of the dental pick, not wedged just lightly resting so really only less than half its weight (not exaggeration on the amount of pressure the wafer didn't feel here), it moved back into a proper looking position. functions well.

It does occasionally miss. using it through a waterpipe, it will begin to produce vapor and then stop. by letting off of the button it will again start producing right away. on these occasions even if I hold the button for 8-10 seconds it doesn't go until I let off and press again. may be technique or break in period, so shall see what changes. I'm enjoying this getting acquainted period. definitely still improving technique, these are just my first results. SUCH a tasty clean vapor though now that it is more broken in.

Is the battery okay to be charged at any point in its life cycle, or only once totally drained? I did not charge it, but hooked it up to the volt meter and it read in at 4.2v. awesome.

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Yeah the top plate ceramic is just free-floating inside there, but the oil glues it in place. If I recall correctly these batteries are better to be discharged to about 20% and charge up to ~80%. Full flat drains kill the batteries over time. According to OF if we follow good practices we can get around 1.5 times the lifespan (750 charges instead of 500, etc) theoretically. In practice I really try not to run any battery flat. I've spent enough time with what I have to guess when it's time to start charging.

MediCaTed101 said:

It does occasionally miss. using it through a waterpipe, it will begin to produce vapor and then stop. by letting off of the button it will again start producing right away. on these occasions even if I hold the button for 8-10 seconds it doesn't go until I let off and press again. may be technique or break in period, so shall see what changes. I'm enjoying this getting acquainted period. definitely still improving technique, these are just my first results. SUCH a tasty clean vapor though now that it is more broken in.

Is the battery okay to be charged at any point in its life cycle, or only once totally drained? I did not charge it, but hooked it up to the volt meter and it read in at 4.2v. awesome.

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Glad you're getting it sorted out. There's a lot of subtle stuff to get down to get the fire points working right. FWIW I've had the 'stalls out randomly' problem too, and found it to be a marginal fill. My take is sometimes there's enough oil near the surface in the core, sometimes not and a little more time is needed to get it to soak through again. Depending on the weight you've got loaded, you might consider another .25 or so to see if it improves? It depends on concentrate, too, I had most of this with harder waxes, shatters and glasses. The CO2 oils I've been using lately seem to be less prone to this.

As others have said, charge any time you wish, but for sure don't run the dead flat. These are not protected batteries, you can hurt them that way......and they do little useful work anyway at that point. As the Q man says, if you can resist the urge to charge 'clear to the top' you can get a BIG bonus in battery lifetime. Dropping 10% basically doubles it, another 10% (basically charging to 4.0 not 4.2) doubles it again.

One thing to keep in mind as you go along is the battery condition. Over the charge it slows down more than cools down. You can easily confuse weak battery for running out of oil. Always question the battery first, if in doubt swap it out for a fresh battery before adding more oil blindly. You should have a second battery handy to do this test, it doesn't have to be a top notch unit, just one who's performance you'll recongnize.

Enjoy the Cera, it's a fine tool indeed, but like most tools needs some skill to get the most from it. You paid for the tool, you've got a right to expect good things from it.

Merry Christmas to all.

OF

I loaded .3 to start off with of some Deathstar wax, which was purchased, choosing to load it first over the jolly rancher style shatter that I had made. Went with the Deathstar wax for the prime load, reason being its amazing pungency in smell and flavor. much more fun (hassle, fun, same thing) to get melted in and loaded/ feeding than I expected. Followed that by .25 - .3 of the shatter, which I have more of.. not so much with the wax for now :/, which seemed to melt in and absorb a LOT more easily.

at the end of the night the battery was getting low so I threw it on the charger. pretty sure I consumed near all of that first half gram of concentrate just getting it loaded. wowzers, pretty intense. sticky lips indeed. Dab wise, I'd probably never consumed even half that in that amount of time.

and the flavor has improved SOOO much from the first .5. No more burnt core taste, even though I was never holding on the button for more than 8-10 seconds at any point.

the flavor out of the shatter, now that the Cera has had its first bit through it, is uncompareable to what I've been able to achieve with it(the oil) in any other fashion. a perfectly pure, clean, very smooth taste. reminds me of some CO2 oil I had a ways back, that no matter how I consumed it was unmatched in flavor.

Its versatile. Sure, nice sip of light tasty daytime vapor, or biggest lung-busting dab I've ever had. I like that. you can't rip a pen like this. not with even moderately as impressive results. Now just wish I had some a that tasty wax left, that its mostly broken in and a much more enjoyable treat. at the beginning, it was pretty hot and dry, and not very tasty or that appealing smell wise. Now, all that seems to have resolved itself, so I'm not entirely sure if it was the wax or just the core itself. thank you for the tips and tricks everyone!

MediCaTed101 said:

the flavor out of the shatter, now that the Cera has had its first bit through it, is uncompareable to what I've been able to achieve with it(the oil) in any other fashion. a perfectly pure, clean, very smooth taste. reminds me of some CO2 oil I had a ways back, that no matter how I consumed it was unmatched in flavor.

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Great to hear you're getting a handle on it. No doubt about it, with no (or very little) concentrate it's easy to overheat the core and start getting all sorts of burnt stuff. The core can get amazingly hot after all, it's just normally it never does (because of the THC evaporating off). If you taste that change it's (past) time to reload. Normally you like to sense abnormal (low) volume production instead since it's an earlier clue that doesn't involve too much heat.

I don't think you'll get any arguments from fellow owners about the taste. Both Cera EO and LL can set a standard there others try to match.

Merry Christmas to all.

OF

We just wanted to thank everyone for their patience. Our apologies for the delays. Currently we are planning to ship all of the current retail orders by the end of the week. The RMA's will be completed this week as well. Possibly not all of them, but we're aiming high.

I like to be as transparent as possible. For the past 3 months I am out of the office a little earlier than usual Thursday and Fridays. If anyone has tried calling past 3:30pm PST, sorry for not being available. I also need to eat so if I'm out on lunch, unfortunately no one else is there to answer. Please leave an email at sales@thermovape.com as a follow up, as I can check those out of the office, and will be making an effort to respond regardless of the time of day (at least for the holiday season).

Only the production team is here on the weekends when needed.

We did ship some Essential Oil products ahead of some others this past week, as Loose Leaf's were not ready to ship. Currently it's best to work in batches, for RMA's and retail. It's most time efficient with the current work load.

Again, we truly appreciate all of you and your understanding at this time.
Best,
Zeki

PS: OF, next time we're putting you to work!

ThermoVape said:

PS: OF, next time we're putting you to work!

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Your call, but I don't think it's a good idea.....you'll just end up having to fix all the stuff I do later.....

OF

for the more numerically and less poetically inclined;
I find I can use the battery down to 3.3 volts , though it is getting thin at that point.. 3.4 is much better...
not charging to full capacity doesnt make sense to me ;
you are sacrificing .2 volts of use time, or about 25% of full capacity, for 50% more charge cycles?
I dont know, its up to you...

as for the Cera retaining heat , I see this as a beautiful thing! More heat retained means less battery work required.
If its already hot, it takes that many fewer seconds to heat to vapor .... if it radiated the heat out to the air immediately
and never got warm, you'd have to run the battery constantly.

I guess the next step is some sort of vacuum wall to isolate the heat chamber.

tedthehed said:

not charging to full capacity doesnt make sense to me ;
you are sacrificing .2 volts of use time, or about 25% of full capacity, for 50% more charge cycles?

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You might want to check that reference again. The savings is four times the number of charge cycles. Four times, not half again. There's something like 8 times the advantage you think?

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Each guy can make up his own mind, but I think we should try to get the details right to make it an informed decision. For myself, I think a four fold improvement is worth considering.

OF

Cera is finally back! A day ahead of the USPS estimate.

So heres the update: turns out my batteries were fine this whole time And so was the switch (which i was sure was the problem.)Turns out the LL cart was out of spec. Just fired it up and im pretty sure it was out of spec since ive had it because it has never worked this good...Wow!

Unfortunately i didnt send back my EO cart i was also having issues with (newer than the LL and purchased seperately) because i was so sure it was the switch i didnt want to have to clean it up. Gotta test that out now and see how it works.

@OF or anyone else that can answer what should the EO cart measure with a dmm?

Mynameismud said:

Cera is finally back! A day ahead of the USPS estimate.

So heres the update: turns out my batteries were fine this whole time And so was the switch (which i was sure was the problem.)Turns out the LL cart was out of spec. Just fired it up and im pretty sure it was out of spec since ive had it because it has never worked this good...Wow!

Unfortunately i didnt send back my EO cart i was also having issues with (newer than the LL and purchased seperately) because i was so sure it was the switch i didnt want to have to clean it up. Gotta test that out now and see how it works.

@OF or anyone else that can answer what should the EO cart measure with a dmm?

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My EO cart measures hovers around 1.8 to 1.9 ohms. My LL cart measures 1.9 ohms.

Busta said:

My EO cart measures hovers around 1.8 to 1.9 ohms. My LL cart measures 1.9 ohms.

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Damn thats what i was afraid of, mines measuring around 1.1-1.2...

But my just rebuilt LL core measuring 1.0...the LL was still warm though cause i just used it so i dont know if that messes with it or busted dmm?

Mynameismud said:

Damn thats what i was afraid of, mines measuring around 1.1-1.2...

But my just rebuilt LL core measuring 1.0...the LL was still warm though cause i just used it so i dont know if that messes with it or busted dmm?

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That's actually about right. The real resistances (as done by Ohm's Law) run a little under one Ohm. The data I'm looking at runs .78 Ohms to .86 for five carts. However, many/most DMMs add about that much to the total with lead resistance and such.

IIRC the last change on LL cores pushed it pretty much to the wall (low resistance) to get faster heat up times being demanded by some. EO cores should probably be a few tenths of an Ohm higher on average.

They should not change value much over the temperatures we're working at.

I think you're just fine?

OF

OF said:

That's actually about right. The real resistances (as done by Ohm's Law) run a little under one Ohm. The data I'm looking at runs .78 Ohms to .86 for five carts. However, many/most DMMs add about that much to the total with lead resistance and such.

IIRC the last change on LL cores pushed it pretty much to the wall (low resistance) to get faster heat up times being demanded by some. EO cores should probably be a few tenths of an Ohm higher on average.

They should not change value much over the temperatures we're working at.

I think you're just fine?

OF

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Awesome, yeah my Rebuilt LL is measuring 0.9-1.0 and the leads are about 0.2.

E0 is 1.0-1.1 .... I just havent used it in about a month since i sent the cera back in and when zeki said it was the LL and not the switch i got worried...

I guess ill have to use it now to see if its working any better than before.... Should have done that instead of the LL

if i used the tester with the two needles and the twisting thing, how do i check it and what is a bad or good range.

420time said:

if i used the tester with the two needles and the twisting thing, how do i check it and what is a bad or good range.

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Put one lead on the end of the cartridge (its has a tiny hole in it) and the other lead on the threads right next to it. Make sure its on resistance/ohms setting, probably the lowest one, i tested it set at 200...OF just mentioned a good range above. It should be around 1.0 ohm

yeah I checked out battery university, and dont see yoyr numbers.
the closest I could find required the baytery to be discharged no more than 50.% and that
came close to providing 4 to 3 times the cycle life of a 100% charged battery... depending on which end of the
chart reading...thats is 300-500 cycles at 100% charge provided 1200-1500 cycles when run down to half their capacity,
ie. about 3.5 to 3.6 volts, which is pretty much where the battery starts to provide less heat in the Cera anyway...

A much more useful point made by the university is the danger of overcharging , which they call " high charging" - somewhat misleading, because by high charge they mean over 4.2 volts...
If you have a good charger it isnt going over 4.2 volts, or not going over for longer than a few minutes...that will really cut down on your number of cycles...

If your batteries are dying prematurely I suggest you take your dmm's and put the pins in series with your charging battery when its
at the end of its charge cycle , and make sure it isnt going above 4.2 volts...it shouldnt be getting more than slightly warm either.

Not sure if I have a problem or not, would appreciate some input from you all.

The past two nights when I've been enjoying my EO cart, I feel like the production has tapered off dramatically. It still produces some vapor, but definitely not like it did before.

At first, I thought it was the battery, so I switched. No change. I then proceeded to load in some more wax (estimated .2g). Slight improvement, but not much at all.

Last night, before starting my session, I took a look at the ceramic wafer. It looked thoroughly saturated, with even a little bit of wax in the corners. Still the same results. It's not the batteries, tried 3 different ones. Anyone have any ideas? Should I just break down and send it in?

And just to be clear, the unit still does function, I'd just estimate it working at ~1/3-1/2 capacity. And the core definitely heats up. By the time I'm finally done, the core has a decent amount of heat to it. So not sure exactly what's going on. I just know that in the beginning, after a fresh load, you could pull a lung buster without much effort. Now, attaining that size hit is near impossible. You can still get some vapor, it just is lacking.

I'm still using the same wax as well, so it's not a change in concentrates.

Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks!

tedthehed said:

yeah I checked out battery university, and dont see yoyr numbers.

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I call your attention to the paragraph above chart 4:
"Most Li-ions are charged to 4.20V/cell and every reduction of 0.10V/cell is said to double cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.00V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell 2,400–4,000 cycles. Table 4 summarizes these results. The values are estimate and depend on the type of li-ion-ion battery." (emphasis mine)

Pretty clear to me, 1,200-2,000 cycles (from 4.0 charges) is four times the 300-500 from 4.2 charges. This insight is not confined here, I've also cited (and shown reference for) the military practice of limiting charge voltage to vastly extend battery life.

tedthehed said:

If your batteries are dying prematurely I suggest you take your dmm's and put the pins in series with your charging battery when its
at the end of its charge cycle , and make sure it isnt going above 4.2 volts...it shouldnt be getting more than slightly warm either.

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This also is not correct IMO. Current readings are taken in series, not parallel. Voltage readings are always taken in parallel with the source. The Voltage reading your suggest should always equal zero. That is when the end of charge is reached the battery voltage exactly matches the charger set voltage (the whole basis of Constant Voltage charge routines.

Not to mention that the owner really has no way to make this series measurement (calls for opening the unit, disconnecting the battery and either dis assembly of the connector or other modifications of the hardware in addition to meter skills past most casual owners). Nor is there a need for most, the 'battery level meter' tells all that needs to be know for those who care.

Roth said:

The past two nights when I've been enjoying my EO cart, I feel like the production has tapered off dramatically. It still produces some vapor, but definitely not like it did before.

I'm still using the same wax as well, so it's not a change in concentrates.

Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks!

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How much volume of wax have you run through it? How does the wax do on a foil test? Perhaps you're fouling out the cart? This is what happens if you do.....

OF

OF said:

How much volume of wax have you run through it? How does the wax do on a foil test? Perhaps you're fouling out the cart? This is what happens if you do.....

OF

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I've probably put ~4-5g through it so far. I did a foil test, but unfortunately I'm not to sure how to interpret the results. I know you've said it should leave behind little to no residue if it's clean, but since I've never done a foil test before, not sure what constitutes a lot of residue. When I put a small amount on the foil with a lighter under it, it all liquifies and flashes away quickly. What's left is a slight tan/brown "stain" on the foil. It doesn't really rub off, just a slight discoloration on the foil where it was. I had access to 4 different waxes (ranging from a blonde, to a light olive green color), and all 4 waxes left the same discoloration.

I'm out of town for work for a few more days, so I'll try the foil test again when I get home and take a pic of it for you all to look at. While it's certainly possible my wax has fouled the cart, I'm just surprised it might have happened this quickly considering I've run such a small amount through it and I feel the waxes I'm using are relatively high quality (but I could be wrong on that).

And just for information sake, the top ceramic wafer is not really discolored. It takes on a slight amber or light green color depending on the wax, but it isn't black or gunky looking. I can still see the pores in the wafer.

If there's no improvement by the time I get home, I'll try doing a full clean to see if that improves things.

Thanks again for the info.

BTW, I've never felt like such a junkie as when I was doing the foil test!

Roth said:

I've probably put ~4-5g through it so far. I did a foil test, but unfortunately I'm not to sure how to interpret the results.

And just for information sake, the top ceramic wafer is not really discolored. It takes on a slight amber or light green color depending on the wax, but it isn't black or gunky looking. I can still see the pores in the wafer.

If there's no improvement by the time I get home, I'll try doing a full clean to see if that improves things.

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Think about how much residue might have come with that 4 or 5 grams. That's all still in there, nowhere for it to go.

A few grams of oil with 'not too bad' residue will foul out an Omicron carts time after time.....and the working area there isn't all that much smaller.

What you describe is a common way for fouling to creep up on you. Since the top of the plate is the coolest part, it produces very little vapor therefore doesn't build up residue as fast as the working surfaces inside (where the other stuff evaporates off, leaving it behind). Eventually most of the surfaces get sealed off, just like blocking arteries with junk, it's not a critical issue until there's very little clear area left. Then the overall situation decays rapidly.

I'm betting a good cleaning (start with boil out) will put it right.

Good luck.

OF

OF said:

Think about how much residue might have come with that 4 or 5 grams. That's all still in there, nowhere for it to go.

A few grams of oil with 'not too bad' residue will foul out an Omicron carts time after time.....and the working area there isn't all that much smaller.

What you describe is a common way for fouling to creep up on you. Since the top of the plate is the coolest part, it produces very little vapor therefore doesn't build up residue as fast as the working surfaces inside (where the other stuff evaporates off, leaving it behind). Eventually most of the surfaces get sealed off, just like blocking arteries with junk, it's not a critical issue until there's very little clear area left. Then the overall situation decays rapidly.

I'm betting a good cleaning (start with boil out) will put it right.

Good luck.

OF

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Many thanks once again for your expertise. When I get home I'll do a boil --> iso soak --> boil and see if that fixes the issue.

So when you do a foil test with some of your wax/oil, there is literally nothing left on the foil? What I had left on my foil, I wouldn't describe as a residue per se. In my mind, a residue is an actual solid that's left over. What I had was more like a discoloration on the foil, it wouldn't rub off. Perhaps it's just stuck onto the foil from the heat? Either way, I'll snap a pic when I'm back home and let you all tell me how bad the wax is.

One other question, how often should someone expect to clean their core? Obviously this is highly dependent on the concentrate going in, but I'm just looking for a general guideline. If someone had super clean/pure concentrate, could they put in over an ounce before needing to clean? Is it somewhat common for people to clean after 5-7g assuming they don't have access to the top shelf stuff? I'm in TX, so obtaining top shelf concentrates is quite difficult. Hardly anyone even knows that they exist here.

Roth said:

So when you do a foil test with some of your wax/oil, there is literally nothing left on the foil?

One other question, how often should someone expect to clean their core? Obviously this is highly dependent on the concentrate going in, but I'm just looking for a general guideline.

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I think it's rare indeed to leave zero, but it's hard to quantify past that since the sample size guys use and their judgment varies so much. IMO the 'flows freely' is a very important part of the foil test. It gives a clue to how well the hot oil can move about in the core so it can get to the surface to deposit the residue rather than leave in buried in the pores where it might stay forever. It's definitely a judgement call, hard to do with little experience. At best the test is a guide.

When I was Beta testing cores I found they could foul real fast with bad concentrates, in some cases in less than a gram. I also have run (clean) CO2 oils thought cores to the tune of a dozen or more grams with no real change in performance. Don't even think about bubble or 'full melts'. If it doesn't pass the foil test, don't put it in, it's very hard to get out again once baked on.

Bottom line is the EO core is not really magic, much as it might seem so sometimes. If you put 'junk' in with the oil it's still there until you take it out again. Too much of it will stop the show. There are limits.....and you can come up on them mighty fast sometimes.

Good luck, I bet a cleaning makes it much better. Hopefully boil outs and ISO soaks will do it, if not, time for a 20/20/20 burn run or two? If it's so baked on you can't wash/boil it out, time to try burning it (all that's left really short of a rebuild?).

OF