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The Grasshopper

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lwien

Well-Known Member
Millions of mactards buy new iphones without knowing if they've been vetted.

And why do you call them mactards?

What you and I want is 100% irrelevant and all this does is come off like whining.

Ya know, calling people who buy iphones as being "mactards" along with accusing those who are bringing up legitimate concerns as "whiners" is pretty damn condescending, eh? No reason to make this personal by throwing out labels such as "mactards" or "whiners" to those whom you disagree with.

So when you say, "Get a grip", I'm throwin' that right back at ya. If you want to make this personal by negatively labeling people, I suggest that FC is NOT the place to do that.
 
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nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
As for the battery, no it doesn't explode, or get too hot. Give us a little credit here.
A bit of advice: you shouldn't take safety questions personally. People around here pick apart every vape, and yes, we're proud of it. Questions like this get asked of every manufacturer. Some of us like to know exactly what sorts of conditions might shorten a battery's usable lifespan, what can be done to extend it, exactly how the design accommodates a rogue battery that decides to vent, etc. As a new manufacturer you have even more to prove.

We're giving you credit with our attention, and some of us with our money. If you can play ball and roll with the punches, you'll do very well around here and find yourself with some very passionate and vocal fans in the end. This is the same treatment that was given to all of the vapes that are touted to kingdom come around here; it goes with the territory! Again, it's nothing personal and doesn't say anything about how much credit people are giving you. Some questions just need to be asked.

Cheers
 

Quetzalcoatl

DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
As for the battery, no it doesn't explode, or get too hot. Give us a little credit here.

I find the "give us a little credit" part confusing with consideration to the fact that you're using a custom battery which we know next to nothing about... these are questions that have to be asked. And expect a lot more once you actually start getting units out.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
I find the "give us a little credit" part confusing with consideration to the fact that you're using a custom battery which we know next to nothing about... these are questions that have to be asked. And expect a lot more once you actually start getting units out.

Gotta agree with this as well as what nopart stated above.

Zen, when you say, "give us a little credit", around these parts the ONLY credit we give is when a working unit is presented in the marketplace and does what the manufacturer promised that it does. Until then, everything is up for grabs and will likely be challenged. My suggestion is to roll with that.
 

grokit

well-worn member
grasshopper_action.gif


Whaddaya mean by sketchy?
;)
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
I'll bite. I am honestly not sure what exactly is shady about this video. Is it mostly the angle they chose to hide the face? I'll admit using a fake name in the first one was a bit silly, but I get it.

Here's is what I find odd about that vid (and let's forget the reasons for a moment), and the only reason I'm mentioning this is because you asked, although you didn't ask me, I don't think. ;)

One, is that you can't see his face.

Two, is you never really see the vape in his mouth and being so, there is the possibility that he never really hit the vape at all but rather already had a lungful of vapor and just put the vape to the side of his face and exhaled what was already in his lungs. It actually looks like the vape was put to the side of his face rather than in his mouth.

And three, the way his head kind of bobbed and what he did with his mouth after the hit.

It just looks all weird. I've seen TONS of vids of people demonstrating vaporizers, but I've never seen one done like this.
 
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Quetzalcoatl

DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
or....they see this the way Apple does it...keep everything secret, then throw the specs and info at you, but nobody knows a thing untill they actually hit the market.
Not much of a comparison when pretty much every Apple product has components leaked months in advance of the actual release.

But that's not what they said. What they said was they didn't want to get any out for review because it would bite into the amount of units that they wanted to release and could push back their release date, but as I said previously, that makes no sense to me. How could releasing a few beta units to reviewers do anything as far potentially pushing back their release dates due to not enough units being available. What makes more sense is that it could push back their release date because the initial units put out for beta review may prove to be faulty in one or another, which, btw, is pretty typical for any new product launch and is the exact reason why a manufacture SHOULD release a few betas for review before any launch date has been committed to.



The ONLY way that a few beta review units could hold up distribution to consumers is if the beta units got bad reviews.

Somethin' just doesn't seem right here.
Yeah like I mentioned before I'm hoping it's just the lack of money on-hand that's preventing them from getting more units made and sent out. I'd be incredibly surprised if 5 units set them back more than a day on shipping. And like we all know, just because they built it and have tested it for longer doesn't mean it's the best way to go about it. Do I need to mention the Ascent? Maybe just for ZP to read over and get an idea of what the forum's like.

I haven't chipped in yet although I'd like to. Having seen the delays and problems that DaVinci and TET had with their latest products, plus only having one video where the unit is loaded and used, makes me nervous. At least TET posted lots of videos of Cera being used, even before they shipped. Anyone remember their EO Pure Gold video? Torching it? LL clips?

Shit, VapeXhale sent out beta units and iirc one of them (from the company) had to mortgage their house to have the funds to keep going.

I do see the point of whoever brought up the "what if they run with it?" question, but that's a risk-reward ratio. Maybe have one or two people might (though I don't expect that to be anyone from FC ;)) sell it instead of using it or whatever, but if you end up finding a weird software bug that's in every unit because you didn't want to beta before you started producing the actual finished products... you're gonna have a fun time kicking yourself over and over.

I do feel like we need to make a distinction between what we're calling these pre-prodo units, though. It can either be a beta unit or a review unit, but I'm not sure if it can be both. Beta meaning we'll get to use it and try to make it fuck up and find bugs that get fixed, review more or less meaning to give an opinion on the product which currently hasn't even entered production. I think for now we should stick to calling them beta units.

Don't get me wrong, I want this thing to work so so badly. All of us do! I dunno what they're cooking in their lab but really it's going to take 5 minutes, maybe 10 to shoot another quick usage video that would surely assuage our anxieties. You don't even have to do anything while it uploads!

But for now... only time will tell. ZP, I know you'll see this eventually. Don't take what I post in here to heart... or do, but don't be offended by it. I'm not purposefully trying to discredit anything or make you guys look like fools. I'm not sure if you were upset by my question about the battery, if you were that wasn't my intention... but when I said we were a bunch of vape fanatics, I wasn't kidding. We can make or break ya, and as much as I hate to say we're somewhat important in the vape world as a community, it's kinda true. The vast majority of us own multiple vaporizers, hang out with people that have multiple vaporizers, try to get smokers into vaporizing, etc. We've had ~15 FC members hang out with a company to try their up-and-coming stuff. There was a fair bit more excitement for it afterwards when we were able to post our pictures and videos of it.

I guess the only thing you (ZP) can take from this long-winded post is this: strap on the helmet, put the protective gear on, and get ready. You'll be fielding questions and troubleshooting problems that you didn't even think could happen. This is an exciting time for all of us. Best of luck.

Edit since I don't want to back-to-back post
(this one's for you, @lwien):

One, is that you can't see his face.

Two, is you never really see the vape in his mouth and being so, there is the possibility that he never really hit the vape at all but rather already had a lungful of vapor and just put the vape to the side of his face and exhaled what was already in his lungs.
I'll address these two real quick since they were already discussed.

1. South Carolina doesn't have a medical program, so they're covering their bases.

2. Although you don't get a 100% perfectly clear shot of the vaporizer on the user's lips, the material does change colors from that greenish to a uniform yellow. They also mentioned that it's both a conduction and convection kind of vaporizer, and fairly balanced at that (their words, not mine). I'm going to assume that it's convection when you start to use it but the hot air causes some conduction at the bowl-end. Assuming that, and assuming that they weren't actually using it, I would imagine that the spent material would still have some noticeable amount of green left. The fact that it's uniform and went from green to yellow tells me that they probably did use it. But, ya know, we still haven't seen mouth-on-pen action (yeah yeah dirty jokes hehehe) clearly enough to erase any concerns.

And to add to the previous post I made, in the OP of the thread ZP states that they had just finished with their prototype/proof-of-concept units. Someone quoted the price in the thousands of dollars, I'm not sure how close to the truth that is because I don't work with ZP and I honestly don't have enough economics/trading experience to figure out if that's an accurate cost or not. Being that they're just prototypes with preliminary features, they have the choice of ordering a certain amount with the risk of

That all being said, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt right now.
 
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King

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
You're vaporizing weed, not desegregating education.

Get a grip.

Personally I have no idea why you are hung up on a beta. You and I have no idea who has already beta tested this product, only that they aren't talking. If you don't feel comfortable funding this, do not. Millions of mactards buy new iphones without knowing if they've been vetted. Think they have? One word: Antenna-gate. Buy the later editions if you are sweating it.

Everyone who buys a first generation product is a large scale beta tester. Even something with sixth sigma QC is a numbers game; you see enough, you see QC issues...witness spare parts for your Rolls Royce and space shuttle explosions.

I personally think @grasshopper's argument against beta'ing was kind of lame, but guess what? They found the gap in the market. They developed this vape and allegedly developed one or more patent-worthy processes. They started the campaign. They did all the logistical work (allegedly). They absolutely orchestrated the marketing and demoed an attractive enough product that will probably get them double what they needed to do this. They did it all WITHOUT beta's. What you and I want is 100% irrelevant and all this does is come off like whining.

Funding this is funding bringing it to market because IT DOESN'T EXIST outside prototype, which are in no way a beta unit. If you need it to exist before you pay it, then don't pay in. It really is that simple.

How an you possibly hope to have an intelligent discussion when your primary tactic is name calling and mud slinging?

The argument that "it's just weed maaaaaan" is irrelevant. This is a medical device industry whether you like it or not.

The discussion here isn't whether there should be beta testers, the question here is, "Would it benefit the Grasshopper team as much as it would benefit the community to have independent third party testing of their finished, production-ready design before their product goes on sale?"

I suggest you do some introspective soul searching before you lay down any more snark. Telling people to "get a grip" has never been the cornerstone of an open respectful discussion.

I'm with @lwien on this one, this thread is not the proper outlet for your emotions.
 

King

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Really guys, it all boils down to this: the Grasshopper is paving new ground in the dry herb pen market. Many have tried it, most have failed. Those that have succeeded in bringing a dry herb pen-style vaporizer to market have had to make design sacrifices in the name of battery life, vaporizing rather than combusting, etc... Grasshopper claims that they have a product that can perform it's advertised function while keeping the desirable pen-style form factor. All we really want to know is if it's too good to be true.
 
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HillaryClinton

Future ruler of earth
Man you guys are getting me all worried, I am wondering if there is any course of action if these vids are actually faked and they all just ship us silver normal pens and this was one big scam.

I doubt it but damn that would be insane.

On that note Carolina is pretty damn crazy with its laws when it comes to this so in my mind as of now it seems more like protection....
 
HillaryClinton,

Belgianvapor

Well-Known Member
@Quetzalcoatl it was just a joke to ease up tensions, I meant nothing by that, by the way, I am one of
those believers who think apple sometimes "accidentally" leak info to keep the buzz going, a thing the folks of grasshopper should do too.
I really hope somebody from fc can attend the test in NY, it's about 3600 miles too far for me.
 

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
@stickstones has already addressed @YesIt'sLoaded and his style, but I want to add that while I understand that @lwien and @King are trying to help, posting about another member's style is both off-topic and provocative. Deal with the substance not the style, and leave the moderating to moderators please. Otherwise you increase the chance of a flame war. If someone is breaking the rules or even just skirting them, you can always report the post.

Edit: I just re-watched both videos and the GIF clip above does not properly reflect what actually happens. I don't doubt that "Chris" is actually using the device. The ABV looks awfully light but it is definitely brownish and no longer green. I'm willing to assume that you could get it a lot darker with proper technique.

I'm still a skeptic. They are promising an awful lot. It seems too good to be true, and we all know what that usually means.
 
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GreenRoom

Well-Known Member
I'm becoming skeptical too but I'm not sure beta units would really shed any light. Some will love it, some will hate it, and some will be in the middle. There will never be a perfect vape. Everyone has different needs and expectations so there will never be one vape to satisfy everyone. Read any thread on any forum. You will never find 100% satisfaction.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
I'm becoming skeptical too but I'm not sure beta units would really shed any light. Some will love it, some will hate it, and some will be in the middle. There will never be a perfect vape. Everyone has different needs and expectations so there will never be one vape to satisfy everyone. Read any thread on any forum. You will never find 100% satisfaction.

While I kinda agree with this, I really think that reviews on beta units will do a few things. One, is that it could point out potential flaws. Second, it will point out if the vape actually accomplishes what the creators are saying that it will accomplish, and that could prove to either be manufacturing flaws or marketing flaws.........or, it could be everything they said it could be.

For me, I wanna see what's behind the curtain.
 
lwien,
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GreenRoom

Well-Known Member
Good points. Beta testers finding design flaws can be beneficial for GH and their initial launch. I'm a designer by trade and no matter how many times I refine a design, and with all the years of experience, a fresh pair of eyes can sometimes spot an area for improvement. You can learn something from everyone.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
Good points. I never thought about beta testers finding design flaws. Definitely a benefit for GH. I'm a designer by trade and no matter how many times I refine a design, and with all the years of experience, a fresh pair of eyes can sometimes spot an area for improvement. You can learn something from everyone.

And that's the key. Having a fresh pair of eyes looking over a product from someone who is not affiliated with the company in any way is sooooo beneficial to that company for ANY product being developed.
 

S1N3

Tarzan @ KloudSociety
grasshopper_action.gif


Whaddaya mean by sketchy?
;)

Your gif making skils are as good as mine... oh wait.

JK thanks for linking my gif, didnt realize I should post here the second I make it, heh :\. If you want a tut on how to make them its not very hard. Send me a PM if you have Adobe CS.
 
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