satyrday
Well-Known Member
I took it as waxed or stubbly.I'd just like to know what the fuck that is supposed to imply..... a lot of cellulite? Feels like a brick? A marshmallow? WTF?
Fuck the Parkinson's, the Dr just gave me a reason to smoke MORE!
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Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
I know pigs are very intelligent. Makes me extremely guilty when I eat bacon.
I wish I had a source.
If it helps you feel less guilty, pigs would gladly eat you if you fell into the pen and couldn't get up. Seriously...they may be intelligent, but they eat anything and can be real S.O.B's if they want to.
I love animals, and hate to see them suffer...but us eating animals and animals trying to eat us, is all part of the circle of life. I am cool with folks choosing to go meatless, but I love meat and feel it's a necessary part of our diet.
What I do have problems with, is cruelty in the process. Even though that can never be fully removed (taking a life will always be "cruel") I think there is much that can be done to make it more humane than it currently is.
All that being said, our exploding population is making it harder and harder to find solutions, and is definitely part of the problem.
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deadheadbill
I can see clearly now the smoke is gone...
We like to rationalize things. My view on the matter.
We like to rationalize things. My view on the matter.
My response to that is...well duh, John Robbins. When you die, whether it's for food or a natural death, you struggle and fight. Death is not pleasant. Does not take away our necessity for food and the fact that we have to kill an animal in order to eat it.
That being said, we don't need to torture an animal or prolong its suffering.
Everyone is free to make their choice. If they wish to be vegan or vegetarian, power to them. But meat is a natural part of our diet, as far as I am concerned.
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momofthegoons
vapor accessory addict
Not to belabor this too much... but those of you who are concerned with the treatment of animals during transport and handling may be interested in Temple Grandin's approach. Her website details her research and development of kinder systems. For those of you who do not know who she is, Temple is a woman with autism who is a designer of livestock handling facilities and a Professor of Animal Science at Colorado State University. Her approach is the kindest and most humane and is the standard for the handling of livestock.
Soylent Green Is People!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9IKVj4l5GU4
EDIT: Sorry about the double post. I tried to delete this but it showed up anyway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9IKVj4l5GU4
EDIT: Sorry about the double post. I tried to delete this but it showed up anyway
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I read the book "Make Room! Make Room!" by Harry Harrison that this film is loosely based on. Nothing at all like the movie...much better.
deadheadbill
I can see clearly now the smoke is gone...
I'll be here all weekend. It's gonna suck. 
nopartofme
Over the falls, in a barrel
Edit: Woops, the liftware video was already posted. Cheers all, hope everyone has a nice day.
lwien
Well-Known Member
We like to rationalize things. My view on the matter.
lol........This guy's got a real flare for the obvious. No living thing just gives up their life. It is in the DNA of every living thing to survive and this concept doesn't take away in one iota that different species will naturally hunt and kill for food, including us. The one big difference is that in most cases, humans forgo part of that equation, which is the hunt, and that, I think, is what causes the conflict that we many of us have in eating meat.
The only hunting that I've ever done is fishing and there is something very intrinsic about eating that which you've hunted and killed, for it serves a very primal part of our make-up and not only makes the food taste that much better, but there's also something almost spiritual about the process. When sitting down and eating the fish that I've recently caught, after the meal, it just feels so...................right, and THAT is what is missing when we eat meat that we buy at the grocery store, and because that's missing, it "can" feel kinda wrong, especially when we see the inhumane way that someone else fulfills that part of the equation that is missing.
satyrday
Well-Known Member
If animals were raised, housed, handled, transported, and killed humanely with minimal suffering, then meat would become expensive. I think it needs to be expensive - a luxury item or at least expensive enough that it's not just casually eaten at every meal. There are plant-based proteins to takes it's place in everyday food. If we don't have to hunt hard for our meat, we should have to at least work harder for it.
As soon as man has the power to rise above the normal circle of life, then the game is rigged and we've become gods over the process. So we can be reckless gluttonous gods, or caretaker gods. We can easily be the former and be like a casino owner sitting at the slot machine that's rigged to pay out obnoxiously. There's no natural struggle there. So, the only struggle we have left is restraint. To me, that's the challenge in life (a negating challenge I should say, of course there are positive challenges too).
Even hunting is really not a challenge given the weapons we can craft (or more realistically, that we can easily purchase). Very rarely is nature a great challenge to us in terms of providing food unless we really strip ourselves bare of technology. Those are the only hunters I would respect - hunt and kill with your bare hands or just minimal tools ... maybe a knife in hand-to-hand combat (depends on what you are hunting).
Not to say that hunting with weapons is always evil in my view. Sometimes it is purely an act of providing for physical need and survival, but it is not a glorious activity in my opinion (not anymore). There is little "sport" left in it for sure.
But I don't spend much time on this soapbox, because for most people it is just the life they were born into and it's hard enough to make ends meet and get through the day. And it really hasn't been too long that we have been able to not live off the land directly and with such need that every scrap of meat was important. I do respect the struggles of my ancestors in this respect (as recent as my grandparents). But it's a new day with new challenges to face, and like everyone else I have my opinion as to the direction we should be heading (right now that is ... tomorrow in a post-apocalyptic world my views would be totally different!).
As soon as man has the power to rise above the normal circle of life, then the game is rigged and we've become gods over the process. So we can be reckless gluttonous gods, or caretaker gods. We can easily be the former and be like a casino owner sitting at the slot machine that's rigged to pay out obnoxiously. There's no natural struggle there. So, the only struggle we have left is restraint. To me, that's the challenge in life (a negating challenge I should say, of course there are positive challenges too).
Even hunting is really not a challenge given the weapons we can craft (or more realistically, that we can easily purchase). Very rarely is nature a great challenge to us in terms of providing food unless we really strip ourselves bare of technology. Those are the only hunters I would respect - hunt and kill with your bare hands or just minimal tools ... maybe a knife in hand-to-hand combat (depends on what you are hunting).
Not to say that hunting with weapons is always evil in my view. Sometimes it is purely an act of providing for physical need and survival, but it is not a glorious activity in my opinion (not anymore). There is little "sport" left in it for sure.
But I don't spend much time on this soapbox, because for most people it is just the life they were born into and it's hard enough to make ends meet and get through the day. And it really hasn't been too long that we have been able to not live off the land directly and with such need that every scrap of meat was important. I do respect the struggles of my ancestors in this respect (as recent as my grandparents). But it's a new day with new challenges to face, and like everyone else I have my opinion as to the direction we should be heading (right now that is ... tomorrow in a post-apocalyptic world my views would be totally different!).
lwien
Well-Known Member
This is a great film about her: http://www.hbo.com/movies/temple-grandin/video/trailer.html
Claire Danes is such a great actress, both in this movie as well as one of my favorite TV shows, Homeland.
Y'all are invited to my place, set a spell, meet my family...I'll be dressed in a minute...we'll have supper ...
It's much nicer inside... make yerself comfterble
Or use the one out back...ya might haf ta wait a spell...thatz ma cuzin. Sorry no toilet paper, just bricks.
It's much nicer inside... make yerself comfterble
Or use the one out back...ya might haf ta wait a spell...thatz ma cuzin. Sorry no toilet paper, just bricks.
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Thank you!
Just be careful if you are on any sort of anti-depressant or similar medication that works with serotonin.
I feel what you are saying, and yes, as we have the ability to think more logically about our choices than say, a bear tearing you to shreds, we should be held to a higher standard...but saying meat should be more expensive is ignoring the fact that there are alot of people living below the poverty line, children especially, who need affordable food to grow and develop properly.
Plant based proteins are inferior and incomplete. Even when proteins are combined (beans and rice for example) they are still not as efficient in bioavailability as an egg, or a piece of meat. Oily fish like Salmon, provide essential Omega 3s for brain development, red meat is an excellent source of iron, etc, etc. Sure, you can live without it...but you often have to supplement (or should be at least), especially if you are a vegan. Not really ideal for poor people who can barely afford food, let alone vitamins, and proper medical care.
It's a complex issue that goes beyond just saying "eating meat is cruel". You know what I think is cruel? Children starving because their family can't afford the basics. That dovetails into the whole hunting issue...there are many people who feed themselves and their family by hunting. So what if they have better tools to make it easier to find meat to get them through the winter? You can't expect people to head into the woods with a spear anymore.
Just my
Edit: And can someone please explain to me, what we would do with a world overrun with cows, chickens and pigs?
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t-dub
Vapor Sloth
So with our thumping of the Washington Huskies complete, here are some of what I thought were the better pics. College Game Day was in attendance, the Huskies played well, but it was a good day to be a Duck. Marcus Mariota (MAR-ee-oh-tah) aka the "Island Breeze" was the best player on the field, and Huff went down in the first half with an ankle "pop" only to return and catch a TD pass in the 2nd. Thomas Tyner, the "Aloha Project", had another scintillating true freshman performance . . .
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Buildozer
Baked & Fried
That's what I always say.. Almost word for word.. Some one has to eat them LOL.. I guess I'll do the dirty work
.. Just IMO, but we didn't get to where we are Today, by being Herbivores.. Besides, at the end(and beginning) of the day, animals taste too fucking good. 
Props to you herbivores doing your part.
satyrday
Well-Known Member
Just be careful if you are on any sort of anti-depressant or similar medication that works with serotonin.
I feel what you are saying, and yes, as we have the ability to think more logically about our choices than say, a bear tearing you to shreds, we should be held to a higher standard...but saying meat should be more expensive is ignoring the fact that there are alot of people living below the poverty line, children especially, who need affordable food to grow and develop properly.
Plant based proteins are inferior and incomplete. Even when proteins are combined (beans and rice for example) they are still not as efficient in bioavailability as an egg, or a piece of meat. Oily fish like Salmon, provide essential Omega 3s for brain development, red meat is an excellent source of iron, etc, etc. Sure, you can live without it...but you often have to supplement (or should be at least), especially if you are a vegan. Not really ideal for poor people who can barely afford food, let alone vitamins, and proper medical care.
It's a complex issue that goes beyond just saying "eating meat is cruel". You know what I think is cruel? Children starving because their family can't afford the basics. That dovetails into the whole hunting issue...there are many people who feed themselves and their family by hunting. So what if they have better tools to make it easier to find meat to get them through the winter? You can't expect people to head into the woods with a spear anymore.
Just my
Edit: And can someone please explain to me, what we would do with a world overrun with cows, chickens and pigs?
Keeping people from starving is one thing, but I believe there is a lot more meat consumed in North America than is needed to prevent that. The cut-rate mass-production of meat has led to some horrible and inhumane conditions for animals. Some of what I've seen and read about is horrifying to me, and some extremely cruel conditions have come as a result of production cost-cutting. I think overabundant supply has led to gluttony. I am not against animals raised and slaughtered humanely to be consumed by humans, but that does tend to drive the price up. That's ok with me to some degree - I would consider it an anti-cruelty tax.
If I thought cutting back a little due to higher prices would quickly lead to malnutrition in our society, that would be a different story. But I think in general people could cut back quite a bit on meat consumption without experiencing real suffering.
I agree no impoverished child should go without proper nutrition, but society is smart to figure that out without meat being such a cruel commodity. I have faith that a good society can feed the children while at the same time cutting back on overall consumption so that meat production conditions aren't so over-stressed.
