Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud

stonemonkey55 said:

Frederick - I hear you loud and clear but since you're not seeing all the emails we're getting, it might help for me to elaborate. We have customers DEMANDING changes and to be honest, its taking up A LOT of our time. We're not taking our ball home because we heard a few people squawk about the label, it has more to do with people threatening us to make changes or they are going to make a big stink about it online. That's when it gets really uncool, really fast. I think its obvious that we're not a company that "runs" from criticism but just because someone donated, that doesn't mean we have to be their slave.

Again, this has nothing to do with the label, this has to do with the persistant pattern of any photo or info we tell people. If people want to express their opinion, that is fine. But when people are demanding "or else" then at some point, it becomes unproductive.

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totally understandable.
however, it isn't fair to punish us because you can't redirect your customer service appropriately. it can't be holding up manufacturing, but i can see how it might affect order fulfillment in other ways.
nor is it unfair to disregard the bulk of your customers request when your suppliers decide to make changes without consultation (if that is the case) or for you to approve such changes with consulting the people who rebuilt your company.

i love you guys and don't knee-jerk react to such things, but i can see how some might, and then take it out on you guys, but that's the price of a kickstarter.
no, you aren't our slave, but you are still beholden to meet reasonable expectations, imo.

a large garish logo is against all of our expectations, as cloud owners, as swagger glass owners, and as kickstarters.

i do feel where you are coming from, @Troi! and i've been on your side w/ the color changes, w/ vents or no vents, but that label crosses it for me. if it's easily removed,
then it doesn't matter ('cept for those who like it and don't want it washed off.)

not trying to stress ya, just add perspective

Bob Loblaw said:

totally understandable.
however, it isn't fair to punish us because you can't redirect your customer service appropriately. it can't be holding up manufacturing, but i can see how it might affect order fulfillment in other ways.
nor is it unfair to disregard the bulk of your customers request when you're suppliers decide to make changes without consultation (if that is the case) or for you to approve such changes with consulting the people who rebuilt your company.

i love you guys and don't knee-jerk react to such things, but i can see how some might, and then take it out on you guys, but that's the price of a kickstarter.
no, you aren't our slave, but you are still beholden to meet reasonable expectations, imo.

a large garish logo is against all of our expectations, as cloud owners, as swagger glass owners, and as kickstarters.

i do feel where you are coming from, @Troi! and i've been on your side w/ the color changes, w/ vents or no vents, but that label crosses it for me. if it's easily removed,
then it doesn't matter ('cept for those who like it and don't want it washed off.)

not trying to stress ya, just add perspective

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I'm there with you and this isn't directed to guys like you or Frederick that obviously understand what is going on. Again, I tried to re-iterate that this isn't simply about the label, it is a consistent pattern that happens. We're still just 5 guys so manufacturing, fulfillment, customer service, operations, all of that, is still done by each one of us depending on who has cycles to do what. Much of the input given by this community is why the Cloud is so kickass, so this has nothing to do with meeting expectations or getting constructive feedback. It has to do with folks crossing the line and making unreasonable demands and if one person has to spend 30 minutes on a phone call to discuss it with someone, that 20% of the company that isn't building, packing, testing, or whatever. Anyhow, it sounds like we're all on the same page anyways, vape on Darth!

@stonemonkey55
totally makes sense. i wish you were in OR. i got mad CS skills, i can get a person to deal w/ reality and go away, not necessarily happy, but accepting the facts, and quickly. it is a hard earned skill and i def. pissed a few off on the way, but you def. shouldn't be wasting time talking to the unreasonable. thanks for hearing us on this stuff (and i didn't have to threaten and wave and shout).

This is probably a terrible time to bring this up, but the fanatic tube will look pretty plain jane if the logo is taken off.

I was hoping for the custom fanatic to be something quite visually different than what you see on the rest of the vapexhale store. The early bird is now like that...

I'm really crossing my fingers for opals like the early birds to spice it up. I just think they're such a nice customization touch and I'd be bummed to not see them on the fanatic glass, which was said to be custom in the campaign description.

Indiegogo early bird: "limited edition swagger hydratube"

Indiegogo fanatic: "special custom swagger hydratube limited edition"

I just don't get why Swagger would make the early bird look more custom edition than the fanatic (btw I'm fine w/ early bird looking custom too). I don't want to raise a fuss and I'm obviously not furiously typing emails but I really want this point to be highlighted and known before release so maybe I can increase the probabilities of them being added on.

If fanatic tubes are already made then putting them inside the glass wouldn't be feasible but the outside still is.

Maybe we're in for a surprise and the fanatic isn't fully done yet. Idk. And PS I think you guys made awesome design decisions for the double chamber to alleviate any issues with drag. It really does look functionally phenomenal. Now I'm just hoping for it to be a tad more visually. Kind suggestion, not any sort of demand.

11eleven11 said:

This is probably a terrible time to bring this up, but the fanatic tube will look pretty plain jane if the logo is taken off.

I was hoping for the custom fanatic to be something quite visually different than what you see on the rest of the vapexhale store. The early bird is now like that...

I'm really crossing my fingers for opals like the early birds to spice it up. I just think they're such a nice customization touch and I'd be bummed to not see them on the fanatic glass, which was said to be custom in the campaign description.

Indiegogo early bird: "limited edition swagger hydratube"

Indiegogo fanatic: "special custom swagger hydratube limited edition"

I just don't get why Swagger would make the early bird look more custom edition than the fanatic (btw I'm fine w/ early bird looking custom too). I don't want to raise a fuss and I'm obviously not furiously typing emails but I really want this point to be highlighted and known before release so maybe I can increase the probabilities of them being added on.

If fanatic tubes are already made then putting them inside the glass wouldn't be feasible but the outside still is.

Maybe we're in for a surprise and the fanatic isn't fully done yet. Idk. And PS I think you guys made awesome design decisions for the double chamber to alleviate any issues with drag. It really does look functionally phenomenal. Now I'm just hoping for it to be a tad more visually.

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You have nothing to worry about. I was just testing functionality not the customization

Thanks so much for letting me know - good to hear! We're all really grateful to have any semblance of interaction with the creator of this product and have stuff like this answered.

Know that even if you have to be brief and short and deal with people who are holding up valuable time and being obnoxious, you still have a big community of supporters behind this cause that will no doubt offer great reviews and feedback (going to go ahead and make this assumption here) that will spread the popularity of this product far and wide. You have a good team, good funding, and good fans and you CAN be quick and brief with those people because they are just small negative speedbumps that don't matter as much in the grand scheme of things.

If anybody else has anything positive to add to team VXL go ahead and let it out because I bet they have heard a lot of negative calls and emails lately and could use some balance.

Gotta agree, I think the majority of us are just using our voice because VXL has been so receptive to feedback in the past & during this campaign.

I can't speak for anyone else, but any opinion I have voiced was only because I thought the feedback would be taken into account. Not because I thought I had a right to demand any changes.

In the end, I have faith that our feedback will be listened to. But in the end the decisions are VXL's. I pitched in to the campaign without ever hitting a Cloud because I believed in this company to deliver me something great. That hasn't changed.

Call me cheap and easy (just don't tell anyone ), but I'm simply happy to be a part of the initial campaign and don't feel I have any right to suggest or demand any changes to anything VX is doing with the EVO/HTs at this stage because, as SM said, they are but five vapor enthusiasts no different than any of us except for the fact they're chasing a massive goal/dream to deliver a world-class vaporizer for all of us to enjoy. Did their campaign also lead us to expect we could further customize their customizations as we please? I don't think so. I can see why SM is thinking about pulling updates for now. And I'm cool if he does. I spent hard-earned $$ just like y'all did, but I also put my expectations in check, too. Sorry if I upset anyone--I love you all, really.

SM - Rock the eff on, please.

Edit: i don't mean to imply folks shouldn't suggest things/improvements to VX. Reading my post I think that could be implied, but that's not what I meant.

Edit 2: I'm so fucking vaked right now.

The Simple Green Solution (pun intended) has allayed all of my concerns re: The Label. Thanks @stonemonkey55!

It's a shame people have resorted to brinksmanship regarding this label issue, or any other. VXL has proven to be highly responsive to this forum. It's why I posted here, asking if anyone had heard anything from VXL...because I was sure we eventually would:

Fame Is A Vapor said:

I wonder if VXL or Swagger is currently testing all or your guys' label removing processes. Not surprised we haven't heard an official resolution to this label issue yet, but I'm kinda surprised we haven't heard anything, like a "we're looking into this, guys. Will get back soon" etc. Not saying we should hit support up with emails, but I'm curious, has anyone communicated directly with someone at VXL about this yet?

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I sure hope the second half of that last sentence didn't encourage someone to call and take up 30mins of @Troi's day, though. Not. my. intention.

stonemonkey55 said:

We might pull back on showing you guys anything because each time we do, the amount of emails we get increase quite a bit and that takes away from building, testing, and finishing the EVO and that's the most important priority for us.

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I'm fine with this until EVO delivery. Hope it doesn't go beyond that, though. To me, this is like those house makeover shows on HGTV, where they kick the homeowners out near the reveal, because
1.) they're getting in the way/annoying/slowing things down, as well as
2.) to preserve the final surprise of the reveal

stonemonkey55 said:

You have nothing to worry about. I was just testing functionality not the customization

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Yes!!!!! Had a feeling we were being trolled a bit by the 'plain-janeness' of the Fanatic HT. Reveal day will be fun!

I think there is another advantage to the new EVO enclosure: With my clumsiness, I just hapenned to cut my finger to blood a little with my Cloud.
I think there are no sharp edges anymore in the new enclosure, right? It's all smooth, not even metal anymore.

Take your time celestal king monkey, we are waiting with you in nirvana. Let the human stink flow upon you like water on diamond.

Tweet of an early bird.

Vapexhale is in a tough position managing expectations of all the campaign supporters. I do not envy them.

And the count starts for me 11....

2 Paces said:

Gotta agree, I think the majority of us are just using our voice because VXL has been so receptive to feedback in the past & during this campaign.

I can't speak for anyone else, but any opinion I have voiced was only because I thought the feedback would be taken into account. Not because I thought I had a right to demand any changes.

In the end, I have faith that our feedback will be listened to. But in the end the decisions are VXL's. I pitched in to the campaign without ever hitting a Cloud because I believed in this company to deliver me something great. That hasn't changed.

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Well said and to be clear, the feedback we read whether constructive, positive, or negative is all welcome and an integral part of why the vaporizer works so well.

Vapodudule said:

Take your time celestal king monkey, we are waiting with you in nirvana. Let the human stink flow upon you like water on diamond.

Tweet of an early bird.

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Thanks for the support and feedback. Again, I wanted to re-iterate that this has nothing to do with the feedback we get because to be completely honest, listening to feedback with an open mind is what got us to where we are. It's only when the suggestions turn to demands where we feel like every decision we make will piss off some people and make others very happy. We understand we can't make everyone happy and do our best to make decisions that the majority agree with. As you can read/see, 99% of the folks that actively participate here are not the people we are talking about. All I can say is ROCK ON FC! TGIF!

Hey SM ... keep on truckin'! Don't let the negativity get you down ... people mean the best but sometimes can be overbearing

Have a good weekend,
JCat

Optional question: what kind of tubes will the beta units come with? Will they be glass mouthpieces or something?

(I said optional because you may want to leave it as a surprise. idk. hah)

As I sip on my 1st generation clicker with perfect satisfaction, I smile knowing that the latest revision is on its way. I don't give a flying fuck about logo's really, or anything else except the experience of pulling vapor into my mouth ASAP.

My 2 cents, just do what you do Stonemonkey and don't stress on all the whining. You are the artist, my lungs are your canvas. That's what matters.

So long as mine is black, straight neck with ice pinches!!
No surprises then, just a good time about 20 minutes away!

stonemonkey55 said:

As you can read/see, 99% of the folks that actively participate here are not the people we are talking about.

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That still leaves a lot of people lol, just check out how many lurkers are online right now!

Members online: Total: 279 (members: 61, guests: 185, robots: 33)

33 robots??? Well, it is the 21st century...

stonemonkey55 said:

FWe're not taking our ball home because we heard a few people squawk about the label, it has more to do with people threatening us to make changes or they are going to make a big stink about it online.

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As far as FC is concerned, that is an empty threat. We won't tolerate FC being used to extort something from any manufacturer. Of course, FC isn't the only place they can do that.

stonemonkey55 said:

Frederick - seeing all the emails we're getting, it might help for me to elaborate.
We have customers DEMANDING changes a
with people threatening us to make changes or they are going to make a big stink about it online. T
. But when people are demanding "or else" then at some point, it becomes unproductive.

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/sigh. This is why we can't have nice things . Please note, I have not sent any emails demanding anything or any emails at all regarding the Hydratubes. And I made one of the spammiest posts in this thread to harp on the swagger logo/branding, but I would never make any "threats" or "demands".. that's absurd and cray-cray.

So please understand that from my POV and probably a lot of people's POV we aren't the ones demanding or threatening or any of that bullshit.

In fact, I find it embarrassing that indiegogo funders are making any such threats or demands. But that type of thing does not represent the majority of us (I'm assuming this, I have no data/numbers like you guys have)
-------

pakalolo said:

As far as FC is concerned, that is an empty threat. We won't tolerate FC being used to extort something from any manufacturer. Of course, FC isn't the only place they can do that.

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Exactly, people making threats or spamming you with emails ... that's not the spirit of FC and that's not what anyone in this thread has advocated at all.
---------------------------

My feedback was constrained to this thread here on FC. I don't go spamming youtube or wherever it is that people try to bag on companies and pump up others.

Summary of some of our POVs

• early tubes were shown during campaign
• campaign gained a ton of steam and hit targets
• VXL and Swagger Glass obviously have a strong partnership and the Cloud EVO is being marketed alongside the glass.
• Changes to the evo and glass were always a possibility and everyone knew this going in
• No one here could have ever predicted that the most significant and noticeable change would be a giant logo blocking the HT action.
• It was a surprise! This is key. The unexpected! and it was revealed after the fact, without any input.
  
• It's totally normal for any company to make branding and design changes on their own and not look for feedback... however we're talking specifically about indiegogo perks
• In many people's minds, the perks are pre-orders (they are not, but they are in people's minds)
• The glass and the cloud are about of equal $$ in terms of consumer price point.
• People signed up for the perk with the glass based on previous glass and the demo glass
• We gave feedback in this specific thread, which only a handful of people read, unlike youtube etc...
• The giant SWAGGER logo bums people out. It's just a downer. Look at all the negativity that came out of it? Why? It's because of the size and placement of the logo. It really is that straightforward. Consumers are in an age now where logos being stuffed in their faces is oft-putting for those of us not into COACH handbags or Dollar $ign hats.
• It blocks the action! Seeing the action is a thing right? It's not just me being n00b I think, gotta have visibility to the turbine action because it's so fucking cool and that's the reason people want the HydraTubes, not because of the branding.

I believe none of these harsh emails actually originated from members of this forum.
People here simply must know VapeXhale well enough to know this:
they can simply relieve their opinion here calmly and I think I've not yet seen VapeXhale not to resolve any complaint there.
I think it can be the only HT yet with that logo, a prototype. And I believe the final ones are going to be as awesome as people want.
Sadly the FC is on the internet, a public place, where everyone can view a new photo and non-fc igg contributors can go rant on email then.

Entitlement...The fuel of the American people

stonemonkey55 said:

I'm there with you and this isn't directed to guys like you or Frederick that obviously understand what is going on. Again, I tried to re-iterate that this isn't simply about the label, it is a consistent pattern that happens. We're still just 5 guys so manufacturing, fulfillment, customer service, operations, all of that, is still done by each one of us depending on who has cycles to do what. Much of the input given by this community is why the Cloud is so kickass, so this has nothing to do with meeting expectations or getting constructive feedback. It has to do with folks crossing the line and making unreasonable demands and if one person has to spend 30 minutes on a phone call to discuss it with someone, that 20% of the company that isn't building, packing, testing, or whatever. Anyhow, it sounds like we're all on the same page anyways, vape on Darth!

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Jeepers, what a mess. Well even though I think the logo sucks, if thats what comes on my tube then fine. I would never even think of demanding anything of VXH around the Indiegogo project. There are things I would prefer of course but frankly its their project, their product, their business. I think if we give opinions and comments that's fine. We can even ask for things. but to demand?? I don't get that mentality. It's too bad VXH has to deal with that. And then to threaten making a stink about it online... wow. Some people have some serious mental health issues it seems.

Sorry to hear about all this SM. I backed the project and am looking forward to the new cloud and tube with or without a crappy logo. Do what you feel is best.

11eleven11 said:

I think the funders are part of the team here and their thoughts should be considered.

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True but that doesn't mean all of the contributors hang in this forum. It would be interesting to see what percentage of indigogo funders are fc members.

This is why I hate anticipation threads. Nothing to talk about yet but does that stop anybody, nope!