Sanjay Gupta punctures the myth

Gunky said:

I'll take your word for it but I have trouble believing the rate of physical withdrawal symptoms is even 1%.

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Simply because that is what you'd "like" to believe. No different really, than those who would "like" to believe that MJ is a gateway drug.

And it is exactly these "myths" on both sides of the equation that I very much hope is addressed in this doc.

The fact is, is that MJ is NOT the devil's drug that many believe that it is and neither is it totally innocuous as many believe that it is.

It's that whole problem of seeing the world in black and white, when in fact, there are grays.

Apparently you'd "like" to believe something else, since you have nothing but anecdotal evidence, same as me. At this point Gupta is coming on well, but his credibility is not sterling.

lwien said:

Simply because that is what you'd "like" to believe. No different really, than those who would "like" to believe that MJ is a gateway drug.

And it is exactly these "myths" on both sides of the equation that I very much hope is addressed in this doc.

The fact is, is that MJ is NOT the devil's drug that many believe that it is and neither is it totally innocuous as many believe that it is.

It's that whole problem of seeing the world in black and white, when in fact, there are grays.

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Gunky, you are apparently working an agenda. Either that, or you are uneducated to the extent that you do not understand comparatives.

It was NOT about how "addicting" MJ is. It was about how LESS addicting it MAY be in comparison to known, LESS PROHIBITED drugs are.

Gunky said:

I'll take your word for it but I have trouble believing the rate of physical withdrawal symptoms is even 1%.

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A paper on "Management of Cannabis Withdrawal" written by Australia's National Cannabis Prevention and Information Center, says: "The proportion of patients reporting cannabis withdrawal in recent treatment studies has ranged from 50-95% (Budney & Hughes, 2006). Symptoms commonly experienced include sleep difficulty; decreased appetite and weight loss; irritability; nervousness and anxiety; restlessness; and increased anger and aggression. The majority of symptoms peak between day two and six of abstinence and most return to baseline by day 14."

Yup. I contend that those that take the extremists views on pro-mj, such as those that say that it is totally innocuous, do as much harm to the acceptance of MJ as a viable drug alternative or as a recreational substance for adults, as those extremists on the other side of the coin who believe that Reefer Madness was an accurate documentary.

Edit: Haven't watched the CNN special on this yet. Going out for a run. Will watch when I get back. My sense though is that they're going to give a pretty balanced view on the whole thing, both the pros and the cons, as it should be.

Well, it was a pretty good special. The only thing that irked me was the "Average THC was 1% in 1972 and is now 13%." The present average THC may be 13%, but it was NEVER "1%." Other than that, I found "WEED" to be pretty objective and accurate. The Cancer research at the end was particularly compelling.

There is no doubt, IMO, that marijuana CAN be psychologically addictive. This depends upon the user. As far as being physically addictive, there is a difference of opinion in the medical community. Marijuana is generally not considered physically addictive in the classic sense. The anecdotal evidence, however, seems to indicate that SOME people who consume marijuana can experience mild withdrawal symptoms for a short period...e.g. some heavy users. Not every heavy user will experience these symptoms. Whether or not a drug is considered physically addictive is, in a certain sense, a matter of degree.

None of the 'symptoms' mentioned are distinct from symptoms you might find when a person breaks up with a boyfriend or girlfriend. When letting go of something one is attached to yeah, maybe lose some sleep, feel anxious or depressed and suffer cravings. Anyone who has ever gotten into hard drugs or quit tobacco knows this is a far cry from the physical symptoms associated with quitting those.

I haven't seen the special; CNN isn't offering it for free on the web and I don't have cable.

rayski said:

A paper on "Management of Cannabis Withdrawal" written by Australia's National Cannabis Prevention and Information Center, says: "The proportion of patients reporting cannabis withdrawal in recent treatment studies has ranged from 50-95% (Budney & Hughes, 2006). Symptoms commonly experienced include sleep difficulty; decreased appetite and weight loss; irritability; nervousness and anxiety; restlessness; and increased anger and aggression. The majority of symptoms peak between day two and six of abstinence and most return to baseline by day 14."

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The vast majority of papers like this were created for anti-cannabis organizations. Their science is highly suspect.

I experience withdrawal symptoms ... I'm dependent on cannabis and its not pleasant to be without ... if without for long enough periods of time I stray back to less healthy and more destructive means of self-medication such as alcohol ...

Out of that 9% how many are like me and are using it as a coping mechanism as opposed to pharmaceuticals offered such as anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, stimulants, etc.? (I choose cannabis as a more healthy and effective alternative and accept the dependence that I have on it ... the only issue this causes me is that of international travel ... it's unfortunate that it is classified as it is and I am not allowed to travel with it like other medications ...)

I thought I had a problem too at one point ... but after many years feeling guilty for my usage and consequently not using regularly for years (where I abused alcohol instead) ... and then coming to the realization of my medical issues and trying various medications ... none of which worked right ... now I've learned to instead embrace my cannabis usage (So am I an addict falling into that 9%? Statistically I guess so ... I guess I should switch back to being an alcoholic or to being zoned out on lithium; then I won't feel like I need cannabis anymore and won't be part of this 9%!)

If you took some synthetic medicine with a chemical name and it kept you on an even keel are you dependent on it? Or is it a medicine that helps you cope? How is mmj different? Safer, for the most part.

Gunky said:

If you took some synthetic medicine with a chemical name and it kept you on an even keel are you dependent on it? Or is it a medicine that helps you cope? How is mmj different? Safer, for the most part.

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Exactly what I was saying! (Thanks for summarizing without the paragraph of rambling )

Edit: I found the part about the driving quite interesting ... for the casual weekend user, they suffered significant impairment, but for the daily medical user, the impairment was negligible (pretty much in line with my personal observations ... also comparable to the labels on some pharmaceutical medications which advise against operating any heavy machinery/motor vehicles/etc until one is comfortable with the effects of the medication ... ie. not much different from medical cannabis users)

I am really tired of the 6 brothers of weed . . . this show definitely made the medical case, and I am really glad they addressed the difference between experienced vs inexperience cannabis users on the driving test.

I didn't get to see the show but I tend to agree with that. I have a small medical grow and vape stuff all the time. I always have something on hand. Driving is not really an issue for me; I am satisfied that I can do it safely. However I find driving less pleasant if I've been vaping and particularly in traffic I think it's best if everybody is as sharp as possible, so I always abstain for a few hours before driving.

t-dub said:

I am really tired of the 6 brothers of weed . . . this show definitely made the medical case, and I am really glad they addressed the difference between experienced vs inexperience cannabis users on the driving test.

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Why on the 6th brothers? First time I heard about them.

Yeah, I agree. The difference between the drivers was pretty enlightening. Didn't know that either. Nor did I know how active the Israeli government is on MJ studies. That's kinda neat....at least coming from a Jew's perspective. Kinda odd that they were using a German vaporizer though.

They made a reality show about those guys, it got old fast. The leader went on record as saying he wanted to breed the "high" out of cannabis completely. The veiled comments about how "no one wanted the medicine" or "they couldn't sell it" . . . its BS imho. They put an ok public face on medical cannabis but I'm tired of their act . . .

t-dub said:

They made a reality show about those guys, it got old fast. The leader went on record as saying he wanted to breed the "high" out of cannabis completely. The veiled comments about how "no one wanted the medicine" or "they couldn't sell it" . . . its BS imho. They put an ok public face on medical cannabis but I'm tired of their act . . .

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Ah......understood. Didn't know that had their own reality show. And I also agree about the CBD meds. My dispensary sold a lot of Harlequin, a high CBD strain, for as much as the high end high THC spec'd weed. On the other hand, I think I saw the specs of their CBD ratio and I think it may have been much higher.

Gunky said:

If you took some synthetic medicine with a chemical name and it kept you on an even keel are you dependent on it? Or is it a medicine that helps you cope? How is mmj different? Safer, for the most part.

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My understanding is that from a medical perspective, if the medication is necessary, then you are dependent, and if it isn't medically necessary, you're addicted.

Example 1 - you break your leg, and get some opioid painkiller to help manage the pain, while your leg is healing, you may develop a dependance on the drug. Once your leg is healed and you are no longer managing pain, you aren't dependent on the drug, you are addicted to it.
Example 2 - You develop a chronic disease which causes continual ongoing pain, and are given the same opioid painkiller, so long as you are taking it as directed by your doctor, you will never be addicted to it, just dependent, since it is treating an ongoing condition...

I can't remember where I picked up that little tidbit though, so take it with a grain of salt...

Gunky said:

I'll take your word for it but I have trouble believing the rate of physical withdrawal symptoms is even 1%.

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That's because you are part of the 9%

Frederick McGuire said:

Example 2 - You develop a chronic disease which causes continual ongoing pain, and are given the same opioid painkiller, so long as you are taking it as directed by your doctor, you will never be addicted to it, just dependent, since it is treating an ongoing condition...

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This is exactly what happened to me. After 5+ years on morphine sulfate I had slowly become someone my spouse did not recognize. Call it what you will, dependence/addiction, it was both. I was taking my drugs as prescribed, and they were destroying me. The week of withdrawals I went through to get to the other side was the worst absolute hell I have ever experienced . . .

Ed Rosenthal's acerbic reaction:

http://edrosenthal.com/2013/08/thank-you-sanjay-gupta.html

I dig Ed!


edit: somebody put the special on youtube:


edit:

Well I watched the show on youtube. I was disappointed at how shallow it was. There were two patients whom he couldn't even quite commit himself to saying were helped. He milked the story of the little girl with seizures for drama but closely cropped every quote by everyone. He showed a painter who claimed he was more creative, a kid who had trouble handling it... He went to research facilities in Israel but what did he show, sensational shots of somebody vaporizing or smoking. He talked to several people about the dependency/addiction aspect but everything was closely cropped and one had the feeling this genuflection to supposed harms was necessary to get the thing on the air. Damage to youthful brains he acknowledged was not firmly established but then he went along merrily as though it had been established - more genuflection to drug war ideology.

Anyone spot that ssv??? That and the cano were the only two vapes I noticed. Good documentary, thanks for the post @Gunky