Ascent Vaporizer - The Ordering, Shipping, & Other Nonsense thread

JCat said:

Man ... I'm glad I don't have your skepticism ...

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I am just honest. My clients love me. I work to make money and I do what I love. It ain't for my clients though.

Wal-Mart by the way has done more for poor people in this country---providing inexpensive goods to those who need them--more than any other person or entity. Further they provide jobs over seas that otherwise would not exist. Anyone truly caring about the poor should praise them... IMO.

lwien said:

There's sooooo much that I'd like to quote and respond to in your post but it would take wayyyy too long, so I'll respond this one because I think it summarizes the whole thing anyway.

I totally agree with your above statement. People do go into business to benefit themselves. But............that does not automatically mean that they can't provide benefit the customer at the same time.

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Like I said, you are in business to benefit yourself and benefits to customers are collateral at best.

lwien said:

This has nothing to do with ethics or "sleeping better at night", but rather has everything to do with my companies long term survival and growth.

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Like I said, you are in business to benefit yourself. If your business makes more money, lasts longer, and grows more because people think you care about benefiting them--so be it--but that's not why you are in business.

lwien said:

Brewer, you sound pretty angry verging on confrontational. Is that frustration due to not everyone seeing the "truth" as you see it?

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I am not angry at all... I am trained to write in active voice and it can come across as too direct. That's not intentional. But I do find it a bit ridiculous that people can't be honest and proud that they work and endevour to benefit themselves -- and NOT others.

I mean, as an extreme example, if you are so altruistic and care about others benefiting rather than benefiting yourself--then just donate all your money and organs to others....

Stated another way, altruism is ridiculously incurably flawed and non-virtuous; most people who claim to be are the opposite!

Don't get me wrong, I give to charity and I volunteer in my community and I work more pro-bono than most of my colleagues---but it's primarily because I enjoy helping others in my free time. I don't wear it on my sleeve like i am better person for doing it. I am not, and no one is a better person than another because they are more charitable. People that do that -- do drive me nuts. Charity is not virtue, it's something you do because YOU enjoy it and YOU find it fulfilling. Truly charitable people do it anonymously.

(Example: Joe Biden criticizing Mitt Romney for not paying enough in taxes; Mitt Romeny donated more to charity in one year than Joe Biden has in his entire life!-- and Mitt never told anyone that until called out by Joe, the moron--even then mitt said nothing and his VP defended him.)

I also don't pretend my work is charitable... My work is work... and it's purpose is to benefit me. My charitable donations are just that--charity. I know the difference. Too often I see people that do nothing charitable, but then claim they are charible because they "care" about benefiting others in their line of work... It's BS!

brewer said:

But I do find it a bit ridiculous that people can't be honest and proud that they work and en-devour to benefit themselves.

I mean, as an extreme example, if you are so altruistic and care about others benefiting rather than benefiting yourself--then just donate all your money and organs to others....

Stated another way, altruism is ridiculously incurably flawed and non-virtuous; most people who claim to be are the opposite!

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Brewer, here is where I think you went off base. No one here has said that they are not "..proud that they work and en-devour to benefit themselves.", nor has anyone said that they "care about others benefiting rather than benefiting (themselves)".

What seems to be happening is that you are creating an argument with something that has never been stated here. No one here has said these things, including myself. You're painting over things that have been said by others with your own preconceived ideas of how you "think" they feel rather than just listening to what it is that they/we are saying.

Walmart along with costco and the federal reserve are keeping inflation in check so most people, not just the poor won't realize how much less their money buys as time marches forward. If we didn't have the centralized distribution that these companies offer we would be paying a lot more for the crap that we buy, and we would buy a lot less crap. But I still miss the mom and pop stores that went by the wayside, and not everything can be procured from these behemoths. Almost, but not everything.

What were we talking about again? Oh yeah where's my shipping notice!

T-minus 20 or so minutes before the presale opens again. Who all is partaking today? I wonder I'd burl wood or croc will be available this time?

kind of a bummer we cant choose what style we want... wait 2 or 3 weeks more so can choose? hmm lol

lwien said:

Brewer, here is where I think you went off base. No one here has said that they are not "..proud that they work and en-devour to benefit themselves.", nor has anyone said that they "care about others benefiting rather than benefiting (themselves)".

What seems to be happening is that you are creating an argument with something that has never been stated here. No one here has said these things, including myself. You're painting over things that have been said by others with your own preconceived ideas of how you "think" they feel rather than just listening to what it is that they/we are saying.

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Making a point by analogy: Original poster claimed that DV was setting up the pre-registration to benefit customers, i.e, DV is being altruistic. When in reality DV is simply endeavoring to benefit themselves and do not give two-shits, excuse my french, about whether anyone gets a Ascent before any one else. The pre-registration was an unenforceable promise and they know that; they set it up that way...

People think DV has an order in which Ascents are being sent out in---and I call BS---they used the pre-registration to hype up and determine demand for DV's benefit. As shown last night, it's a free for all grand opening sale. Buttressing my theory.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it, and we'll see; when people who didn't pre-register get units at the same time as those did--I would say that supports my theory.

Original poster claimed that "DV does care about customers." My point is--no they don't--but they love you thinking they do. All they care about is your credit card number. And that is fine, moral, virtuous, and doesn't need to be defended by claiming DV "cares."

Reflections said:

kind of a bummer we cant choose what style we want... wait 2 or 3 weeks more so can choose? hmm lol

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It funny to me because I couldn't decide; the burlwood matches the interior of my car, and the croc just looks hands-down cool so I can see why they are the more popular styles. But the stealth may have the clean classic lines that will continue to impress long after the initial buzz factor wears off the other two designs.

At least that was my personal rationalization

PS, wouldn't it be a lark if davinci was sitting on an inventory of all three styles, just waiting until the orders slow down for the stealth before releasing the other two?

I think it would be hilarious, in a gibberish way of course!

grokit said:

I think it would be hilarious, in a gibberish way of course!

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I think this vid kinda sums up this thread quite nicely.

^^^ Sums up all blogs...

All three flavors are available tonight!

how many people are trying to change their orders to Burl or Croc now?!

brewer said:

^^^ Sums up all blogs...

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And all political commentary

I checked just to see. Reminds me of that story about the young bull and the old bull.

Fourth email just went out. Anyone not get one who thinks they should have gotten one?

brewer said:

how many people are trying to change their orders to Burl or Croc now?!

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At the expense of waiting another minute? Never!

grokit said:

At the expense of waiting another minute? Never!

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Stealth is what I wanted anyways. So I'm freak in happy!!!! I just wish the days would go by faster so that sucker would just get here!

I'm on the Pre Registration list and got my E-mail from Organix LLC a few minutes ago.
I can order mine on Monday night between 5pm and 8pm Pacific time.
I have choice between the three free glass gong adapters which I don't need. I wonder if I can decline as it seems a shame to take it just because it's free.

Take it and donate it?

To me! Jk, but I wouldn't mine the u-shaped 18mm for variety's sake...

Boy. Step away for a day and miss so much fun!

brewer said:

Making a point by analogy: Original poster claimed that DV was setting up the pre-registration to benefit customers, i.e, DV is being altruistic.

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I can attest that original poster CATEGORICALLY DID NOT claim DV (or any company) was acting altruistically. Can also attest that original poster believe altruism is a null and bogus concept.

I think that was read into it, because we interrupt things within the framework we have. (how else can we understand things, but within the framework of knowledge we already possess?). And I'm sure that is what it seemed the point was. It wasn't.

I think a few other people got the subtle point. I see that lwien first comment even identified that the two position were the same. "I think both you guys are right, but just coming from different perspectives." I had previously said that it was more of a "half full/empty" thing myself.

I don't want to so maybe I'll just leave it at what the others said, but my original point was that this all is *NOT* a zero-sum game. To pursue a benefit, does NOT necessarily do so at the expense of another's benefit. (yeah, yeah, yeah: Not talking about fraud, coercion, deceit, lies, etc which is a different situation entirely)

Apology in advance..... Feel free to ignore

nigel said:

I can attest that original poster CATEGORICALLY DID NOT claim DV (or any company) was acting altruistically.

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And you said.....

nigel said:

Well, again, yeah they did. *Deliberately* for our benefit.

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Altruism: "act for someone else's welfare," e.g., act for another's "benefit."

DV offered the registration solely for their own benefit.... that's my point... they did not offer it to benefit anyone, altruistically or otherwise (an in any type of bargain for exchange).

My altruistic comment was an analogy.... to make my point that DV doesn't care about the order of registrants or whom gets an Ascent first.

Analogy: "Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar..."

nigel said:

"I think both you guys are right, but just coming from different perspectives." I had previously said that it was more of a "half full/empty" thing myself.

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I don't necessarily disagree about the two-sided coin analogy; however, even if talking about the same "coin"--each side is vastly different; one side assumes DV gives two-shits, excuse my french, about a customer beyond that customer buying product from them-->and the other side states reality-->DV cares only about benefiting itself and if that means duping you into thinking they care about you--> they will. Customers that think DV cares is good marketing.

That's not meant to be a negative comment about DV. Work is work, and charity is charity. DV does work to benefit itself. It's employees I have no doubt are charitable with their own money and time....DV is likely ethical and fair with customers too.... The notion that business is in business to benefit customers is absurd, however. Actually, it's much more honest, moral, and virtuous for business to be transparent about its intent and goals---> benefiting itself. That way we avoid such delusions about business.

DV, the business, is not a charity, as such it does not act for the benefit of customers; it acts to benefit itself and benefits to customers are simply collateral, i.e., the purpose of business is benefit the business. That means the business is rationally self-interested in not pissing off customers, but it does not mean the business acts for the benefit of the customer. It does not.

In sum, the overall point was that the pre-registration was marketing hype to increase sales and help DV determine demand.... But go ahead and worship them, they don't care, but might think it's cool.

brewer said:

...a Chicago-school rant...

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I don't know anyone, with the possible exception of you, who doesn't expect to get a benefit from a purchase. Are you seriously telling us you buy stuff expecting no benefit from the deal? Listen, I have this bridge, it's in Brooklyn...

Wtf happened in this thread??? It's probably whoever paid first gets one first. They can't wait to see if people who PREREG are going to buy, when a lot of people have BOUGHT.
Anyways, I got the 18 glass u adapter. Anyone know something good and preferably not too expensive to hook this bad boy up to when it shows up?

evanaquinn said:

Wtf happened in this thread??? It's probably whoever paid first gets one first. They can't wait to see if people who PREREG are going to buy, when a lot of people have BOUGHT.
Anyways, I got the 18 glass u adapter. Anyone know something good and preferably not too expensive to hook this bad boy up to when it shows up?

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Search for the Infamous bubbler...cheap, and does the job. For something sleeker and more portable, look on eBay for the Pinnacle WT. Pricier, but worth it for convenience, IMHO (and still under 100 bucks).

Edit: Just realized you wrote 18mm...that'll work for the Infamous but not the Pinnacle (you can get an adapter to make it work, but it's a more cumbersome solution).

Edit again: you beat me, grokit. My internet went down right as I was trying to correct myself...

sam reynolds said:

Search for the Infamous bubbler...cheap, and does the job. For something sleeker and more portable, look on eBay for the Pinnacle WT. Pricier, but worth it for convenience, IMHO (and still under 100 bucks).

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Pinnacle WT is 14mm; I came across this earlioer today, 18mm fits on sale for $40:

http://www.pipesdaddy.com/product-p/vp-0022.htm