Arizer Solo

GoGreen

Member
I understand what drives it and all, but as you say it's sure to piss some guys off and about half the links there aren't even appropriate?

IMO a simple 'yes there is' or just staying silent is going to be more productive than poking fun at an honest question. I just don't see that as being really useful I guess (at least not as useful as other approaches). I want guys to feel comfortable at asking questions, don't you?

I wasnt sure if "let me google that for you" was aimed at me, but if so olivianewtonjohn hadnt followed the previous posts - i was never looking for a car charger, but politely replied to someone who offered to check out a different method of car charging using their inverter. I see how the misunderstanding arose - if I quoted the post I replied to it would have shown on the next page with my post.

What really worries me is the continued attitude "google is your friend" - it IS NOT! See -

http://donttrack.us/ and also http://dontbubble.us/

Anyway, OF has shown me exactly what I wanted.

@OF - do I understand correctly that you take those batteries OUT of the USB torch sticks to put in the self made battery pack? If so then I think I get what I need to do - buy 3 and then the extra diodes steal some power but take the voltage down so its level at 12v and have it all in a pack with the right connector to power the Solo. Im guessing some soldering may be needed?

Then the only other question would be time taken to charge - theoretically would it be the same as from a plug 12v source? Ah well, this seems like a brilliant solution anyhow - thanks for the help!
 
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CentiZen

Evil Genius in Training
Accessory Maker
Google is by far the best source of information on the internet and provide some of the best services available to date. I understand your concern but you should educate yourself. And show me a possible alternative (no, Duck Duck Go does not count).

Yes, they make money by selling ads. They make money by selling information. But that web site is spreading just as much FUD as it is good info.

Do you know what you are to google? Your a number. You have no name, no face, no immediately available information for the Illuminati to glean from or the NSA to search. You are a node, a collection of data and things about you - but not you. The government doesn't get to say "Give me all of James Deans search history" and get it. It doesn't work that way.

If you want to see exactly what is available to anyone and everyone, they will show you. They aren't hiding anything from you. And that's why everyone is getting so mad. All (literally) the other major internet service providers do the exact same thing. They only reason people aren't freaking out and puking all over Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, , you name it... is because of that is because Google is the first company that was actually willing to be open about it. And doesn't that just set a great precedent for the next company that's thinking about being forward facing.
 

vman

New Member
There's two ways you can wire a JST-RCY lead. The standard way is to do 1:Black (as negative) and 2:Red (as positive). Arizer did this backwards (1:R,2:B) probably just to prevent us from plugging in just any battery and having it work.

So red is still positive, they just muddled up the connector. With any luck, I'll be soldering up a new pack tonight. Shouldn't matter to me, as I'll be re-using the connector from the OEM pack.
 
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m0sh

Singer Song Writer Stoner
Without having looked further, I believe the air comes in the bottom, flows up to the four holes in the heater element, through the chamber and out through the stem. With nothing packed, when I push the stem in it blocks the holes in the heater, seriously restricting the draw. If I pull the stem out a little, the glass at the base of the stem lifts off the metal at the base of the chamber, unblocking the four little holes, and the draw becomes easy.

The air comes from the top not the bottom.
The restrictive draw is by design as said before and yeah this trick works well.
 
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OF

Well-Known Member
Without having looked further, I believe the air comes in the bottom, flows up to the four holes in the heater element, through the chamber and out through the stem.

Like I said, test it. Tape up the holes, it still draws the same.

Another clue is there's no heat exchanger to heat the air really. It's just not a convection vape in the normal sense. If the holes were intended to be admitting all the air, why wouldn't they move them in enough to miss the rim? Or groove the bottom?

OF, you just stated this is not a convection vape? I thought it was mostly convection and like others with conduction. Now that I have the PN I do realize that it is less convection IMO then the PN or even the DV or INH but not sure. What do you think.

I've never seen a PN, sorry. Convection vapes like VG, TV, HA and so on share some features. Like you stop draw and the load cools and vaping stops. And pulling in lots of air (which gets heated before it makes the load) brings lots of heat and ups production. Conduction based units (like Solo, VB, MFLB and so on get cooled off by the extra air, so while the volume goes up, the density goes down and actual total THC delivered suffers.

@OF - do I understand correctly that you take those batteries OUT of the USB torch sticks to put in the self made battery pack? If so then I think I get what I need to do - buy 3 and then the extra diodes steal some power but take the voltage down so its level at 12v and have it all in a pack with the right connector to power the Solo. Im guessing some soldering may be needed?

Then the only other question would be time taken to charge - theoretically would it be the same as from a plug 12v source? Ah well, this seems like a brilliant solution anyhow - thanks for the help!

Sorry for all the confusion. My homemade battery pack uses 3 normal 18650 Li-ions in a 3 cell holder I got from Digikey:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dkse...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

The case is a camera case from Amazon.

Yes, I had to solder the cable on the battery holder and add two jumpers to put the 3 batteries in series for 'about 12 Volts'. A little past 'half discharged' the total will drop below 10.6 or so Volts and the 'light show' will start forcing you to remove the 3 batteries and charge them again.

A way around this is to use 3 USB chargers, again in series for a regulated 15 Volts. Being as this is marginal WRT what you might get from a car electrical system, I'd add a series diode to drop it down a bit (to like 14.3) just to be safe. Again, modest soldering would be needed.

But no, I didn't break up USB charges, I bought new 18650s.

In any case, yes it'll charge the same as normally (still 12 VDC, doesn't matter where from), the draw is about .8 Amps.

OF
 
OF,

mharding

New Member
I've checked out OF's post - thanks, Dreamerr

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/arizer-solo.3833/page-585#post-388106

but this isn't my experience.

Four holes in metal chamber blocked with blutac - zero draw.

Four holes in metal chamber blocked by base of stem - seriously reduced draw.

Four holes in metal chamber cleared by partially removing stem - fine draw.

As m0sh said - this trick works well!

Now I have to smoke my blutac...
 

OF

Well-Known Member
Good question!

I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Ask enough of them, you're sure to get lucky sooner or later. I was about due.......

In a rare serious moment, thank you very much. Sometimes a rhetorical question can get a guy to look at the same thing from a different point of view. Fun thing is you get no new information, you just 'rethink' what you already know.

OF
 
OF,

ataxian

PALE BLUE DOT
It was after that I decided I was not going to purchase any more Tenergy products.
I prefer AW's.
Since (ARISER) customer service asks me a bunch of silly question when I told them about a weak unit so I just took care of it myself!
I pulled out the batteries and replaced them with:
http://www.batteryjunction.com/tenergy-18650-2200-pk.html
Now my SOLO performs as well as my M107 back-up.

Funny I just bought some TENERGY batteries and charger from FRY'S for my next boat trip!
At 3.0v in a SHORTY and a 2.4 cart and it's smooth sailing and the crew won't even know I'm medicating.
Four batteries for 3 days at sea?
90 Degrees Dry WIND with the OCEAN SMOOTH as OIL!
56820_1740646480059_3673356_o.jpg
 
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fubar

Ancient and opiniated inhaler
Without having looked further, I believe the air comes in the bottom, flows up to the four holes in the heater element, through the chamber and out through the stem. With nothing packed, when I push the stem in it blocks the holes in the heater, seriously restricting the draw. If I pull the stem out a little, the glass at the base of the stem lifts off the metal at the base of the chamber, unblocking the four little holes, and the draw becomes easy.

Yes. There's no other air path with a stock stem and stock tight fitting grommet although from my testing, air enters mostly from the holes around the edge of the top and from the ventilation holes near the charger socket at the bottom and a little bit of air leaking in through the channels where the outer case slides over the control panel section when it's reassembled.

That's how it's designed.
PVHES notches allow extra cold air to enter down the sides of the grommet through which the stem is pushed toward the heater plate lowering the extraction temperature and resistance - which probably explains why pvhes users seem to report using higher temperature settings.

As I've said before, I've reamed out each of those 4 tiny holes for substantially improved airflow with a stock stem and some slight loss of temperature control precision and a voided warranty
Pushing the stem to one side in your mouth as you draw and allowing a tiny leak of air to enter where the lip seal is broken to mix with the vapour is a good way of lowering the resistance too - and it dilutes after extraction so doesn't lower the extraction temperature.

YMMV
 

clouded vision

Well-Known Member
The air comes from the top not the bottom.
The restrictive draw is by design as said before and yeah this trick works well.
I just did a quick test using both a pvhes and a stock stem, if you blow through the stem you can see exactly where the air path is by where the vapor goes. With an o-ring in when I blow through the pvhes the vapor runs down the channels, but when I blow through a stock stem it comes out of the holes in the metal cap. That means the air is being pulled through the 4 small holes in the crucible.
This also shows that it does have a lot of conduction because a convection vape wouldn't produce vapor when you blow the wrong way through it
 

vman

New Member
Success.

Swapped the plug from the solo charger to a wall-wart that doesn't suck, and made a new battery pack with 3400mah unprotected panasonics and a 2-cell protection circuit (tenergy). Couldn't fit the new pack in with the battery holder/door/useless-plastic-clip-in-piece so I left it out, and still had a hard time getting the case to slide all the way down. But she's back together, and works, and seems to charge as well.

I ended up with the protection circuit on the side of the pack (like the oem one is), because it wouldn't have fit height-wise with it on top, but the tenergy protection circuit is much wider than the one in the oem pack, so it sits atop rather than nestling between the batteries. I'm thinking that that's why I couldn't put the useless-plastic-clip-in-piece back in; that, and the fact that my wiring is not as neat as it could be.

Thanks for the help, folks... here's hoping I don't burn my face off with this diy pack.
 

fubar

Ancient and opiniated inhaler
The air comes from the top not the bottom.
Like mOsh says, one reliable way to see where there are air paths is by blowing smoke or vapour back into a stock stem inserted into a cold solo - I just did and I think you'll find that it comes out wherever it can including the top holes, those bottom ventilation holes and around the channels where the two parts of the body slide together. If it comes out under positive pressure, in the absence of any valves, it will flow in the same places during a draw AFAIK.

Like I said, test it. Tape up the holes, it still draws the same.

Another clue is there's no heat exchanger to heat the air really. It's just not a convection vape in the normal sense. If the holes were intended to be admitting all the air, why wouldn't they move them in enough to miss the rim? Or groove the bottom?

My (and mOsh's) various experiments with a stock stem, sticky tape, vapour and careful inspection do not support your views.

Being at the bottom of the stainless steel cup is a design feature IMHO to support heat exchange as incoming cold air flows down between the outside of the stainless steel cup (the side you can't see) and the ceramic heater enclosure it's fixed into on it's way to your herb through those 4 tiny holes.

Air will flow wherever it can to equalise pressure. Tape over those top holes properly and air will still flow easily into the case through the bottom ventilation holes. Tape those off too and it will still get in via the leaky channels where the two parts of the case slide together. Blowing smoke or vapour in with a stock stem in very good light is a great way to see exactly where air is getting out - that's where it will be getting in when you suck.

mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
That means the air is being pulled through the 4 small holes in the crucible.
This also shows that it does have a lot of conduction because a convection vape wouldn't produce vapor when you blow the wrong way through it

While I think the second part is spot on, I think the first is not. What I think is happening there is the vapor is blocked by the seal ring in the Solo for the most part so it goes sideways under the inner cover (if you look under the cover that holds the floating seal ring you'll see how this can work. It changes a bit as that seal 'breaks in' (guys report easier draw). You'll also find if you install the aftermarket ring above the factor seal the draw gets harder?

I just redid my 'tape it up' experiment. Fully taped up the top and bottom vents and the entire front panel. It still draws normally. Have you done that test?

I ended up with the protection circuit on the side of the pack (like the oem one is), because it wouldn't have fit height-wise with it on top, but the tenergy protection circuit is much wider than the one in the oem pack, so it sits atop rather than nestling between the batteries. I'm thinking that that's why I couldn't put the useless-plastic-clip-in-piece back in; that, and the fact that my wiring is not as neat as it could be.

Great! Thanks for the report, it's good to hear. I wonder if those of us with hot soldering irons might not be able to swap the factory board over (replace just the cells) and get it back in the same hole?

My (and mOsh's) various experiments with a stock stem, sticky tape, vapour and careful inspection do not support your views.

Air will flow wherever it can to equalise pressure. Tape over those top holes properly and air will still flow easily into the case through the bottom ventilation holes. Tape those off too and it will still get in via the leaky channels where the two parts of the case slide together. Blowing smoke or vapour in with a stock stem in very good light is a great way to see exactly where air is getting out - that's where it will be getting in when you suck.

Please try again (I just did, taping it up again....). This time I used a solid 113 ring to seal the stem entrance as well. My prior test was done with a notched ring. The solid one seals the stem and basically blocks the flow.

Likewise, drawing on it as you screw the cover down on the solid ring (no tape) increases the draw resistance although air does get in by the routes you mention to some degree (the seam/front panel seems trivial?).

I'm not sure it really matters but if opening up the holes is an improvement in performance one is left wondering how the designers missed such an easy one? Why did they use such tiny holes and put them where the rim of the stem would block them if they depend on them for flow?

Again, I'm not convinced the details really matter, but I am sure that sealing the stem with a ring impacts it unless the ring is notched.

OF

Edit: Here's another test for your consideration. Remove the top cover and the plastic heater cover (with the floating seal), this gives you access directly to the SS cup. I measure the gap with my stock stem at .018 inches, no doubt this varies some. Quite loose without the factory seal. Anyway putting the stem in you can hear being drawn in the bottom holes for sure. Now wrap a few turns of plumbing tape (Teflon) on the stem part way up from the bottom and try again. When you make the seal on the top of the cup (forcing all the air up the holes) it definitely gets more restricted and the hiss goes up in volume as more flow shifts down to the vents. I think normally the resistance down the gap is less than around the outside and up the four holes so most of the air in the area just under the factory seal goes that way instead.

FWIW

OF
 
OF,

clouded vision

Well-Known Member
OF, while I typically agree with most things you post this time I disagree but have to experiment more to properly refute you (or concede). I can explain my logic though. First you asked how did arizer miss boring out the holes to improve airflow and I think the answer is larger holes would allow particles to fall through and ignite, and the second reason is that the unit doesn't have a heat exchanger. In other words the bottleneck created by the pin holes slows down the air so it is in contact with the hot surface long enough to hear the air to the proper temperature. Also you are contending that it works like a vapolution does, in which case why not line the crucible with glass so you can advertise aan all glass air path. Moreover why even have the holes in there in the first place, the vapolution works fine without them. I do agree that a stock unit with a spinning stem is bound to have some of the vapolution effect but I believe this is a design flaw or the stem would spin the first time you put it in there. I am sure that arizer spent a lot on R&D but at a certain point every design team has to saythat's good enough or you end up with a Bugatti Veyron which costs $2.4M and they still lose money on every car they sell.
I will report back after I have experimented more but it might not be until tomorrow evening due to work and a family obligation.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
OF, while I typically agree with most things you post this time I disagree but have to experiment more to properly refute you (or concede). I can explain my logic though. First you asked how did arizer miss boring out the holes to improve airflow and I think the answer is larger holes would allow particles to fall through and ignite, and the second reason is that the unit doesn't have a heat exchanger.

I will report back after I have experimented more but it might not be until tomorrow evening due to work and a family obligation.

Yes, by all means please do experiment and report what you see. I surely don't expect folks to take what I say just because I say it, I always (I hope) include the reasons for what I say and stand ready to discuss them....science demands no less, right. The idea has to stand on it's own.

I'm sorry I don't know Vapolution.

As to 'particles falling through and igniting' I seriously doubt that, unlike some ofter vapes there is noting down there hotter than the SS cup is exposed....nothing to ignite. The area does in fact fill up with debris as it is. I agree that there is no intentional heat exchanger I can find either, yet another reason I don't think the maker intended to draw in air and heat it to working temperature before admitting it in the bottom through the holes, there's no heat exchanger to do the heating. Units that intend to do this have identifiable heat exchangers?

Here's a bit more 'food for thought' for you. I woke up bothered by this still. I realized with my 'remove the covers and use just the cup' experiment I'd stopped short. More data could have been collected. I had only checked the draw. So I took it apart again and redid it but this time used the 'blow gently into it and see where the vapor come out' technique. I see, I believe, the majority of the vapor comes out the gap between the stem and cup (some does come out the quadrant openings, depending on the tip of the stem). But IMO the majority is coming coming up through the larger area opening (the gap around the stem). This vapor would cross over the gap at the top of the cup (you can see this gap looking in the top normally) and will be combined with that coming up the outside of the cup (through the four holes) and comes out from under the cover being misinterpreted in the above test as all coming from those holes? Without removing the cover there's no way to tell where that vapor is coming from, that which comes up the gap will also come out the exact same place as that through the holes?

I think this is a key point we've all missed up to now, the flow inside or outside the cup is mixed at both ends. This is why the vents in the Solo body don't matter, the two routes are common just above the cup.

All in all, an interesting discussion, at least to me. I don't think it has any practical use, but what's happening and opinions why are perhaps useful? But opinions (mine included) are only as sound as what they're based on and science that can't be repeated by others and successfully defended isn't science but something else?

Thanks much, please do poke around some and make up your own theories if you're not happy with what others have said. IMO that's exactly how it should be.

OF
 

dos equis

Well-Known Member
Anyone here have any experience vaping ice-o-lator hash in the Solo? I'm afraid of stuff melting all over the heating element. I guess the best thing would be to mix it with bud, but I'm all out of bud for now. :p

Tried searching around but haven't really found much, but I do know it's supposed to work fine with hash.
 
dos equis,

overvaped

Vapor evangelist
Anyone here have any experience vaping ice-o-lator hash in the Solo? I'm afraid of stuff melting all over the heating element. I guess the best thing would be to mix it with bud, but I'm all out of bud for now. :p

Tried searching around but haven't really found much, but I do know it's supposed to work fine with hash.
I have tried some hashes similar to ice-o-lator...I always put the solo upside down, so if it melts it will come over the stem, not over the solo inner parts.
 
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