Discontinued The Persei Vaporizer for herbs and concentrates.

ataxian · Apr 28, 2013

EOConcepts said:
Teak, classy shit

I went a week over the project time line.
Made these TEAK handles Saturday.
First TUNG OIL wipe.
These are for my MEDICATION drawers.

khof · Apr 28, 2013

OF said:
That's absurd. Such a piece is made against a design, right? The craftsmen in question make it to match the drawing and order, the functionality is the responsibility of the Designer, it's saleability belongs to the sales guys (and traditionally 'the old man').

Given the quality of mine and reported by others I'd say the guys that made it and inspected it were doing their jobs. The fact that given the physics involved (low head pressures, small openings with high water surface tension, low flow rates and so on) it's not realistic to expect all four vents to run full tilt. In fact, if you pull harder, more come on line as might be expected. So an owner wondered why, that happens. After it was explained to him he seemed satisfied with the quality and performance (didn't want to return it).

Please show me even one complaint about the workmanship to back up "complaints about bad workmanship ie "non-firing" percs"? I saw a guy question and several respond 'mine does it too'....which of them complained of bad workmanship?

I know you're anxious to find some 'evidence' to back up your issue with the price, but IMO this is not it.

OF

I used to be a glass snob, I've owned hundreds of pieces from China shit to custom one offs. My office used to look like a headshop. That bing said, the quality of the Nibbler X is top notch. As I mentioned earlier, I could care less if 1 or all 4 percs are firing because the hit provided/overall functionality is extremely satisfying. I payed full retail for my NX because I got it prior to the 420 coupon code and I would pay full retail for it again. I was hesitant at first but i'm really happy I pulled the trigger. The glass quality/functionality is excellent and it's basically a necessary piece when I use the Persei now given how bad my lungs are. When you remove the bottom metal cap from the nibbler and take a pull through it all of the percs work. I support what OF said about it probably being due to the slow and steady pulls people take as opposed to how you draw for a bong hit. I'm sure someone will complain about how only one hole works but quite frankly I'm more about the performance.

Limosnero · Apr 28, 2013

IMO the Nibbler X is top notch and is worth the $$. I bought a second just to have as a back up.

In the future, I would like to see the Nibble X double barrel model (would buy today) & maybe a Nibbler X Hercules combo.

It's not too far until the holiday season so G please have the D9V elves get busy. Oh yeah & a F'ing stand, please

ataxian · Apr 28, 2013

khof said:
I used to be a glass snob, I've owned hundreds of pieces from China shit to custom one offs. My office used to look like a headshop. That bing said, the quality of the Nibbler X is top notch. As I mentioned earlier, I could care less if 1 or all 4 percs are firing because the hit provided/overall functionality is extremely satisfying. I payed full retail for my NX because I got it prior to the 420 coupon code and I would pay full retail for it again. I was hesitant at first but i'm really happy I pulled the trigger. The glass quality/functionality is excellent and it's basically a necessary piece when I use the Persei now given how bad my lungs are. When you remove the bottom metal cap from the nibbler and take a pull through it all of the percs work. I support what OF said about it probably being due to the slow and steady pulls people take as opposed to how you draw for a bong hit. I'm sure someone will complain about how only one hole works but quite frankly I'm more about the performance.

I've been pricing glass for the last couple of months comparing quality as well.
I really want to own a NIBBLER and will get one without the discount code.

This is not stealth however CHEAP.
I rarely do this.
wITH a NIBBLER I could do it daily!

poonman · Apr 28, 2013

ataxian said:
I've been pricing glass for the last couple of months comparing quality as well.
I really want to own a NIBBLER and will get one without the discount code.

This is not stealth however CHEAP.
I rarely do this.
wITH a NIBBLER I could do it daily!

Hey ataxian ,
Nice looking wood for your SMR .
I've actually copied your water filtration set-up for my Omi-Light .
I'd used an NO2 silicon tube and attached it to the mini bubbler .

Thanx ..." Aqualung "

budda

friedbanana8 · Apr 28, 2013

OF said:
Interesting, but obviously false in the details. Putting your finger does not "block the air from pressing down", it did nothing at all to remove the air.....right? It's still there at 14.7 PSIA, give or take. Nothing has changed.

However, when you lift the straw, the level drops some. This is key. The same number of molecules are in a bigger space now, the pressure therefore goes down by the ratio of the differences in volumes. This change in PSIA times the area of the tube is what's doing the work by holding that weight of water up. The unchanged pressure outside against the reduced pressure inside. The longer the straw, the bigger the drop in level and pressure needed. It reaches an equilibrium determined by those numbers. The air pressure difference is definitely not "a greater force than gravity" it is, in fact, exactly equal to it. More over, it starts lower than gravity and as the vacuum 'grows' it climbs in effect, it's never greater. Gravity wins (or ties, never loses).....which is why we found the water on the ground to start with?

Because there's only 14.7 PSIA to start with, there's a limit of something like 33 feet as a maximum for this, as a practical matter it's less of course. In extreme cases it crashes a bit early since the vapor pressure of the water limits the vacuum possible to a number bigger than zero.

This is how the classic barometer works. There's a (near perfect) vacuum in the tube above the mercury (never changes despite volume changes). Air pressure, working on the bottom, can support a column of Mercury that weighs the absolute pressure times the area times the height (volume of the column) times the mass of mercury. The 'straw trick' is a subset of that? FWIW Franklin was supposed to have built a water barometer on the side of a barn with a window at the top to see a carved wooden float. Because the column was so long, the changes in pressure were in feet, not inches or mm.

I hope you didn't pay too much for this Chemistry book......you should have got one written by a Physicist it seems?

I guess I don't get what you're calling BS over.....is it you think they're secretly being made by stoners for cheap? Not 'straight Craftsmen'? Given the price seems in range with other, similar, small WTs it seems in line for domestic made semi custom glass to me.

It certainly seems in line with say the PVHES from PV. There an upgraded stem is three times the price of the mass produced one from the maker, about a third what the Nibbler X is? Given the latter is much more complex and includes machined metal as well I fail to smell Bull anything?

OF

The explanation was not exactly from the authors of the book. It was from a previous owner of the book that felt they had a good grip on understanding the straw trick, and they had written it in themselves; i should have said that. He placed this explanation after a passage that discusses air pressure and how it comes from all directions and interesting enough, next to a passage that introduces the barometer and its function. I should have realized that the number of moles being constant meant that air pressue couldn't have been greater than gravity, otherwise there'd be a change in the number of air molecules inside the straw with i knew to be constant. Thats a face-palm right there.

I have one question though about the change in pressure inside the straw. You said that the water drops a bit as you lift the straw which can be observed to be true by anybody. But why does it drop? The only thing that i could think of is that since the water is inside the straw mid-air, it no longer has the water molecules from the cup in its way so its weight becomes visually observable. So, are you saying that as the weight of the water pulls down it allows the air inside to expand, thus causing a decrease in pressure at the top of the straw since the temperature is constant and the number of moles constant as well? (this is boyle's gas law for those interested in reading more about this).

Edit: On another note, i laughed when i checked that my chemistry book was indeed written by chemists and not physicists. And honestly i hate this book. It does more history telling than explaining of concepts. It seems chemists are pretty conceded about their past, atleast this group of chemists is.

OF · Apr 28, 2013

friedbanana8 said:
I have one question though about the change in pressure inside the straw. You said that the water drops a bit as you lift the straw which can be observed to be true by anybody. But why does it drop?

If falls to maintain equilibrium. Or it would change, that's what lack of equilibrium does, things get out of balance and change. The water drops enough so the lower pressure is enough lower than the outside air that there's enough 'lift' available to support the remaining water column.

Do a 'thought experiment' and see. Put an imaginary 100 foot hose in a rain barrel full of water (get out all the air) and put a cap on one end. Keeping the free end under the surface, attach the other end to the sky hook and slowly lift it. What do you expect to see?

At first there's a vacuum in the hose (let's say it's perfect.....) and 14.7 PSIA (give of take) pushing into the free end of the hose, the water stays put. That's because the weight of the water lifted (in pounds) is less than the cross section in square inches times 14.7 pounds per square inch. The size of the tube doesn't matter, a larger one holds more pounds of water but has more square inches to support it. So, eventually we reach the point where it balances (equilibrium). If we have on square inch, we have 14.7 pounds of water. About 33 feet. From then on, the volume of the vacuum doesn't matter, that pressure is as low as it can go. A bigger vacuum doesn't 'suck harder'.

So the water in the straw experiment does the same thing. The volume above expands, lowering the pressure (since the temperature is constant the Ideal Gas Law is close enough) until the right number of PSI difference is reached to support the remaining weight in the straw. Because it's not a perfect vacuum, there's some 'rubber' in there.

The key is equilibrium. A concept at first missing from the discussion?

Thanks for the update on the source. Finding it written in a text book is not exactly the same as what an expert gets paid to teach. I read all sorts of stuff on walls I don't put much stock in even though they're very nice walls. It's nice to know it's just a little scribbling by a past student not some gross failure to teach the youth to think.

OF

friedbanana8 · Apr 28, 2013

OF said:
If falls to maintain equilibrium. Or it would change, that's what lack of equilibrium does, things get out of balance and change. The water drops enough so the lower pressure is enough lower than the outside air that there's enough 'lift' available to support the remaining water column.

Do a 'thought experiment' and see. Put an imaginary 100 foot hose in a rain barrel full of water (get out all the air) and put a cap on one end. Keeping the free end under the surface, attach the other end to the sky hook and slowly lift it. What do you expect to see?

At first there's a vacuum in the hose (let's say it's perfect.....) and 14.7 PSIA (give of take) pushing into the free end of the hose, the water stays put. That's because the weight of the water lifted (in pounds) is less than the cross section in square inches times 14.7 pounds per square inch. The size of the tube doesn't matter, a larger one holds more pounds of water but has more square inches to support it. So, eventually we reach the point where it balances (equilibrium). If we have on square inch, we have 14.7 pounds of water. About 33 feet. From then on, the volume of the vacuum doesn't matter, that pressure is as low as it can go. A bigger vacuum doesn't 'suck harder'.

So the water in the straw experiment does the same thing. The volume above expands, lowering the pressure (since the temperature is constant the Ideal Gas Law is close enough) until the right number of PSI difference is reached to support the remaining weight in the straw. Because it's not a perfect vacuum, there's some 'rubber' in there.

The key is equilibrium. A concept at first missing from the discussion?

Thanks for the update on the source. Finding it written in a text book is not exactly the same as what an expert gets paid to teach. I read all sorts of stuff on walls I don't put much stock in even though they're very nice walls. It's nice to know it's just a little scribbling by a past student not some gross failure to teach the youth to think.

OF

Oh, i get it now. It makes perfect sense when you put it that way, thanks OF. Yeah i crossed it out and im going to put your explanation in instead, give these people something to relate to other than a barometer.

TommydCat · Apr 28, 2013

I don't know if my eyes are just fuzzy because they're being glaucoma-proofed, but I'm counting 5 holes in my Nibbler X perc, not 4...

OF · Apr 28, 2013

TommydCat said:
I don't know if my eyes are just fuzzy because they're being glaucoma-proofed, but I'm counting 5 holes in my Nibbler X perc, not 4...

Only 4 on mine, not that it really matters.

It's hard to see well. He's a tip: Rotate the metal part until one of the vent notches across the bottom of the unit lines up with the vent inside. Notice how the others are lined up then? Must be four?

If you got the special one with five, I wouldn't tell anyone......and be careful not to break it, it could turn out to be very valuable.....

OF

Bodhi Diesel · Apr 28, 2013

OF said:
That's absurd. Such a piece is made against a design, right? The craftsmen in question make it to match the drawing and order, the functionality is the responsibility of the Designer, it's saleability belongs to the sales guys (and traditionally 'the old man').

If the craftsman executing the design does so in a haphazard manner, the functionality becomes the responsibility of said craftsman. There's NO two ways about it despite your illogical drivel.

OF said:
Given the quality of mine and reported by others I'd say the guys that made it and inspected it were doing their jobs.

Nice to know you have such low standards. It explains a lot of your rambling.

OF said:
The fact that given the physics involved (low head pressures, small openings with high water surface tension, low flow rates and so on) it's not realistic to expect all four vents to run full tilt. In fact, if you pull harder, more come on line as might be expected. So an owner wondered why, that happens.

Thanks for the remedial version of hydraulic dynamics. You need to study more.

OF said:
After it was explained to him he seemed satisfied with the quality and performance (didn't want to return it).

Good for him.

OF said:
I know you're anxious to find some 'evidence' to back up your issue with the price, but IMO this is not it.

I don't need anything other than the posted retail price of the Nibbler X to know it's an over-priced piece of shit and that it won't stop gullible asswipes from buying one.

Have a nice afternoon.

OF · Apr 28, 2013

Bodhi Diesel said:
If the craftsman executing the design does so in a haphazard manner, the functionality becomes the responsibility of said craftsman. There's NO two ways about it despite your illogical drivel.

Have a nice afternoon.

Ah, so! The expected personal attack(s)? I guess this means you have nothing to back up your side......

Since nobody is reporting a defective unit, I'll assume there are none to report. No quality problems from Craftsmen, stoned or straight?

Thanks, likewise.

OF

BeEazy · Apr 28, 2013

how long will the site be down?

SlinginPaint · Apr 28, 2013

ataxian said:
I went a week over the project time line.
Made these TEAK handles Saturday.
First TUNG OIL wipe.
These are for my MEDICATION drawers.

Damn, that Tung Oil really brings out the texture and deep tones! cant wait to see these drawers finished.

ataxian · Apr 28, 2013

EOConcepts said:
Damn, that Tung Oil really brings out the texture and deep tones! cant wait to see these drawers finished.

i will wait to add a second unitl their attatched.

All my medical devices are tucked away.
I was desperately searching for a cart to load as my thc levels were extremely low.
There on top of the pile was a 5.0 cart loaded it up my PERSEI with 2x 18350's and my levels were corrected very quickly!

this wax is super thick and very concentrated and is powerful with flavor.
i was saving the wax for the HERCULES.
so fortunate to have wax devices like DELTA NINE PERSEI'S!

Atomsk · Apr 29, 2013

Bodhi Diesel said:
I don't need anything other than the posted retail price of the Nibbler X to know it's an over-priced piece of shit and that it won't stop gullible asswipes from buying one.

Have a nice afternoon.

Honestly, I don't see where your opinion matters in this debate.

It is a product you do not own, whose performance you have only second hand knowledge of through hearsay. You have no personal experience with a Nibbler X, no insight of the know-how that went in to the design, and therefore have no plausible argument to make.

You seem to have all the rage of a dissatisfied customer without actually being a customer, and by the laws of subtraction that leaves us with this: you're just whining.

Don't like the price tag, you don't have to buy one. But do everyone a favor and stop dogging products you'd clearly like to have but can't seem to find the coin for, and stop trying to make it seem like it's a manufacturers responsibility to stay within your price point.

How about you give a D9 rep in your area a buzz, or visit the warehouse, have them demo a Nibbler unit for you, and then either substantiate your argument or throw it away.

You're derailing the flow of ACCURATE information and we have new users everyday you could be confusing.

Thanks.

Edit: To ataxian

ataxian said:
this wax is super thick and very concentrated and is powerful with flavor.
i was saving the wax for the HERCULES.
so fortunate to have wax devices like DELTA NINE PERSEI'S!

I've been meaning to bring this up to you, ataxian, but I wouldn't hold on to wax for too long. I've read it's more volatile than flower and should be consumed for maximum effect before degradation starts, which, depending on light / air exposure and overall quality, begins at about a month. That's why you'll see, or should see, prices drop for any certain concentrate that's been on a dispensary menu for that long, and that's why you'll notice shatters starting to "budder up."

I say go the whole hog and use your waxes while they're good and potent and pick up some definite fire when Herc V2 comes out. Might I recommend a Terp X nectar from ECHC?

The med room looks like it's coming together beautifully.

MaxVapor · Apr 29, 2013

For the record my Nx has 4 holes, and I love it regardless of how many percs fire. The day I break it (when not if) I will order a replacement immediately.

And the wait without it will be painful to me.

Atomsk · Apr 29, 2013

So I'm getting my NX within the next few hours.

Any general guidelines? Where to keep the water level, if you use a mouthpiece as well as NX, tricks to see if it's working right?

Will report on perc performance / overall experience when I'm in the money.

OF · Apr 29, 2013

I recommend low level on the water to start. Wash it out well then suck for all your worth, spitting out the water that comes over. Then dump a tiny bit more and go from there. Mine covers the vents plus 1/8 inch or so right now. The water shifts some before bubbles happen.

You might also try a foot or two of tube on the top. Being able to watch the vapor form clearly is a big help IMO.

Basically no matter where you start you're probably going to like it.

OF

poonman · Apr 29, 2013

I've been meaning to bring this up to you, ataxian, but I wouldn't hold on to wax for too long. I've read it's more volatile than flower and should be consumed for maximum effect before degradation starts, which, depending on light / air exposure and overall quality, begins at about a month. That's why you'll see, or should see, prices drop for any certain concentrate that's been on a dispensary menu for that long, and that's why you'll notice shatters starting to "budder up."

Hey Thanx Atomsk ,
I did not know the expiration period for budda/wax was that short , give or take .

What about keeping it in mason jars or even in the freezer to extend the storage time ?

tia

Atomsk · Apr 29, 2013

OF said:
I recommend low level on the water to start. Wash it out well then suck for all your worth, spitting out the water that comes over. Then dump a tiny bit more and go from there. Mine covers the vents plus 1/8 inch or so right now. The water shifts some before bubbles happen.

You might also try a foot or two of tube on the top. Being able to watch the vapor form clearly is a big help IMO.

Basically no matter where you start you're probably going to like it.

OF

Thanks, as always, OF.

Seems like a solid way to find the water level & I just happen to have extra tubing, I might just do that.

poonman said:
Hey Thanx Atomsk ,
I did not know the expiration period for budda/wax was that short , give or take .

What about keeping it in mason jars or even in the freezer to extend the storage time ?

Yeah, it expires much more quickly than bud which is definitely a bummer.

Mason jars and minimal light exposure will help you stave off quick degradation, but I have heard that keeping it in the freezer can definitely prolong it's shelf life. I've heard of months at a time for this. You just want to make sure it is sealed air tight. Normally, oil comes out of the freezer with a bit more moisture, so if you dab and notice a little spark or fizzle that wasn't there before it'll be that.

Unsure how it would effect Omicarts since I haven't done any long term storage.

Edit:
So what are these o-rings for?

friedbanana8 · Apr 29, 2013

poonman said:
I've been meaning to bring this up to you, ataxian, but I wouldn't hold on to wax for too long. I've read it's more volatile than flower and should be consumed for maximum effect before degradation starts, which, depending on light / air exposure and overall quality, begins at about a month. That's why you'll see, or should see, prices drop for any certain concentrate that's been on a dispensary menu for that long, and that's why you'll notice shatters starting to "budder up."

Hey Thanx Atomsk ,
I did not know the expiration period for budda/wax was that short , give or take .

What about keeping it in mason jars or even in the freezer to extend the storage time ?

tia

Thats weird, before i started vaping I read that wax holds up pretty good for upto 6months if kept out of light and at the right temperature. Sure some concentration would be lost, but it wasn't a whole lot is what i got from it. Anybody else got an opinion? one of the reasons why i bought the persei was to avoid constant trips to the clinic as I live far away from the nearest one. But if it degrades just like bud then maybe filling up so many cartridges at once isnt a good idea.

OF · Apr 29, 2013

I think it has to do mostly with conditions and purity. There is a documented case of hash from the time of Christ found in a shipwreck in the Med that was still potent (I wonder how they tested that in the field?):
http://www.shee-eire.com/Misc/Articles/EygyptianHemp/hemp1.htm

The safest, most sure, way though is to use it up as quickly as possible of course......

Keep it cool, airtight and away from light and stable concentrates should outlive you? Unless your roommate finds it of course.

OF

BLAZING OG · Apr 29, 2013

OF said:
I think it has to do mostly with conditions and purity. There is a documented case of hash from the time of Christ found in a shipwreck in the Med that was still potent (I wonder how they tested that in the field?):
http://www.shee-eire.com/Misc/Articles/EygyptianHemp/hemp1.htm

The safest, most sure, way though is to use it up as quickly as possible of course......

Keep it cool, airtight and away from light and stable concentrates should outlive you? Unless your roommate finds it of course.

OF

poonman said:
I've been meaning to bring this up to you, ataxian, but I wouldn't hold on to wax for too long. I've read it's more volatile than flower and should be consumed for maximum effect before degradation starts, which, depending on light / air exposure and overall quality, begins at about a month. That's why you'll see, or should see, prices drop for any certain concentrate that's been on a dispensary menu for that long, and that's why you'll notice shatters starting to "budder up."

Hey Thanx Atomsk ,
I did not know the expiration period for budda/wax was that short , give or take .

What about keeping it in mason jars or even in the freezer to extend the storage time ?

tia

Atomsk said:
Thanks, as always, OF.

Seems like a solid way to find the water level & I just happen to have extra tubing, I might just do that.

Yeah, it expires much more quickly than bud which is definitely a bummer.

Mason jars and minimal light exposure will help you stave off quick degradation, but I have heard that keeping it in the freezer can definitely prolong it's shelf life. I've heard of months at a time for this. You just want to make sure it is sealed air tight. Normally, oil comes out of the freezer with a bit more moisture, so if you dab and notice a little spark or fizzle that wasn't there before it'll be that.

Unsure how it would effect Omicarts since I haven't done any long term storage.

Edit:
So what are these o-rings for?

Maybe this will help someone!!
Ive posted these before, these work amazing for preserving herbs and oils!!!!
Ancient egyptian technology!!!!!! :rockon:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/storage-ideas.1228/page-3#post-384234

Bob Loblaw · Apr 29, 2013

d9 sells most sizes, not w/ the leaf, tho
sweet

Discontinued The Persei Vaporizer for herbs and concentrates.

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