FlashVAPE

To say that I may or may not get a date with Gwenneth Paltrow implies that I have a shot.... which I most certainly do not. Is it the truth? I guess. But it implies something that would probably be offensive to Gwenneth Paltrow.

kelper said:

"May" is the truth - sorry you find it offensive. It also may not apply to anyone here. How do I know?

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How do I know for sure you are not a competitor just here to cast doubts on a great product? See what I did there?

Stu said:

But it implies something that would probably be offensive to Gwenneth Paltrow.

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And she ain't alone there, big guy! I'm sure I speak for many when I say I find the thought a little off putting as well? Thanks awfully for sharing that. Really.

Fun thought though. Goes along with my favorite log entry, "The Captain was sober again today".

OF

kelper said:

"May" is the truth - sorry you find it offensive. It also may not apply to anyone here. How do I know?

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"May" is by nature a conditionality, thereby eliminating its possibility of being "truth" (e.g. The apple MAY be red. Seeing as no one has seen the apple, however, we have no way of verifying the statement. Since the apple cannot be both red and not red, the previous statement (the apple may be red) has no intrinsic truth-value). Logic aside, you seem to be the only individual who has experienced the threading issue to such a degree. Now, we don't know this for sure, but based on the evidence presented by this community, it's certainly not the norm. So this talk of "truth" seems unwarranted......

Tweek said:

How do I know for sure you are not a competitor just here to cast doubts on a great product? See what I did there?

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You don't! (but I'm not)

My feeling is that people here are on the up and up, but you have to be realistic about how things may be perceived. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with getting freebies, but open disclosure would be more transparent, like when analysts give stock picks. Maybe I'm just jealous so don't get too worked up over it!

kelper said:

OF said:

No, that's not how electrons work. If it's better (and I suspect it's not really) it is only because you now have more metal to metal contact. Any gap big enough to hold any grease would stop the electrons anyway, they're really kinda bitty you know.

My guess is as the threads got eaten away less and less was making contact (your unit was degrading from stock). Well done (and we've no reason to think otherwise) threads are designed to have maximum direct metal to metal contact......which is why they're used for such applications.

If other systems worked better they'd be use instead.

OF

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I never felt my unit was degrading from stock in terms of electron flow, although if that were the case then that is another problem with the non-anodized threads constantly shedding metal. And I agree if it is better now as it "seems" to be, then that is probably due to increased metal-to-metal contact as I originally stated. Good point about a gap big enough to hold grease is not in contact anyway (sarcasm diminished my appreciation of it however).

Again, I do love the FV but I am not going to blow smoke up the readers asses when I believe there is a real issue. I get no freebies so I feel unencumbered giving the unvarnished truth.

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That's the full context of your statement. You're responding to OF, who is easily the most public beta tester on FC. He's writing in defense of FlashVAPE and you don't want to say that he's being influenced by a free FV, so you chose to generalize with a little innuendo, in the process slurring beta testers. Instead of apologizing as you should, you try to justify your generalization.

kelper said:

Not saying that anyone who gets a unit for beta testing will cover up or lie when their is a real issue. However, the reason Consumer Reports is valued is because they take no compensation from the companies they review. Also, Amazon Vine reviewers are commonly ridiculed because they seem so over-the-top in the pocket of their freebie providers. CNET now is also tarnished for playing favorites. Perception is critical when giving reviews, so I am stating out front I get no freebies. Those that get freebies may or may not be compromised, but with me there is no worry - not even the chance somebody bought my integrity. The way review journalism usually works among the respected outlets is that the reviewer has to return the test item after they finish the review.

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Now you're reducing it to "No offense but..." and then proceeding to offend. You're not saying anyone in particular is covering up or lying but by the way, look at all these people who do. All right, just what did you mean by your remark? If it's not a generalization you must have had someone in mind.

Dr. Yan-I-Tor said:

"May" is by nature a conditionality, thereby eliminating its possibility of being "truth" (e.g. The apple MAY be red. Seeing as no one has seen the apple, however, we have no way of verifying the statement. Since the apple cannot be both red and not red, the previous statement (the apple may be red) has no intrinsic truth-value). Logic aside, you seem to be the only individual who has experienced the threading issue to such a degree. Now, we don't know this for sure, but based on the evidence presented by this community, it's certainly not the norm. So this talk of "truth" seems unwarranted......

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You're right - that was an awkward way of saying it. Since it is an OR condition however, one side of the "may or may not" has to be true. I should have said "are or are not" to get super-logical, but I think you get my drift.

pakalolo said:

That's the full context of your statement. You're responding to OF, who is easily the most public beta tester on FC. He's writing in defense of FlashVAPE and you don't want to say that he's being influenced by a free FV, so you chose to generalize with a little innuendo, in the process slurring beta testers. Instead of apologizing as you should, you try to justify your generalization.



Now you're reducing it to "No offense but..." and then proceeding to offend. You're not saying anyone in particular is covering up or lying but by the way, look at all these people who do. All right, just what did you mean by your remark? If it's not a generalization you must have had someone in mind.

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Honestly I don't read the forum often enough to have any particular suspects. Nothing personal against OF - sorry you took the shrapnel. However, when I'm reporting something I feel is important and getting so much resistance, then yes, perception comes into play and I do have a sneaking suspicion that some may not want to rock the boat. Not silence me but also not encourage me. But I will also say that my suspicion could be totally wrong.

I'm checking out for awhile this evening. If I'm banned when I get back then best wishes to you all. I'll still read occasionally (nurturing my suspicions ).

mod note: Please read the rules page (and our infraction schedule) so that you're not worried about getting banned, since you've made no bannable offense. What you have done though, with your "if I'm banned" comment, is attack the intregrity of the staff. I suggest you consider the impact of your words on others in the future, before you post. As a disclaimer, I have never used this particular model nor previously moderated this thread.

kelper said:

You're right - that was an awkward way of saying it. Since it is an OR condition however, one side of the "may or may not" has to be true. I should have said "are or are not" to get super-logical, but I think you get my drift.

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The "awkward way of saying it" comes from my degree in philosophy. And yes, one side of a conditional must be true, so long ss there are sufficient premises. In your case, however, you have no further valid premises to give you your "truth".


To everyone else: has there been a method of rigging the FV to a bong/bubbler discovered yet? I don't recall seeing anything in the thread thus far about it.

Dr. Yan-I-Tor said:

The "awkward way of saying it" comes from my degree in philosophy. And yes, one side of a conditional must be true, so long ss there are sufficient premises. In your case, however, you have no further valid premises to give you your "truth".


To everyone else: has there been a method of rigging the FV to a bong/bubbler discovered yet? I don't recall seeing anything in the thread thus far about it.

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I meant my statement "May is the truth" was awkward.

Dr. Yan-I-Tor said:

To everyone else: has there been a method of rigging the FV to a bong/bubbler discovered yet? I don't recall seeing anything in the thread thus far about it.

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I ran a piece of SSV tubing from my FV with the Stage-2 kit installed, straight into an EHLE that I have and it worked great. I believe LeTchen ran a smaller sized tubing from the stem to a small bubbler as well.

kelper said:

Honestly I don't read the forum often enough to have any particular suspects. Nothing personal against OF - sorry you took the shrapnel. However, when I'm reporting something I feel is important and getting so much resistance, then yes, perception comes into play and I do have a sneaking suspicion that some may not want to rock the boat. Not silence me but also not encourage me. But I will also say that my suspicion could be totally wrong.

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So you do suspect someone—actually in this case everyone else—is lying or covering up. You won't name anyone because you could be wrong, so you throw us all under the bus, no apologies needed because hey, people do cover up sometimes.

Everyone's out of step but you.

kelper said:

I meant my statement "May is the truth" was awkward.

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My mistake lol

Tweek said:

I ran a piece of SSV tubing from my FV with the Stage-2 kit installed, straight into an EHLE that I have and it worked great. I believe LeTchen ran a smaller sized tubing from the stem to a small bubbler as well.

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Oh excellent! I just got a small stemless tube for my solo. Looks like I need to find some tubing

Dr. Yan-I-Tor said:

Oh excellent! I just got a small stemless tube for my solo. Looks like I need to find some tubing

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Ideally if you can find a diameter that will fit the stem snug, that would be best. With the larger SSV tubing that I used, I had to hold it in place.

Tweek said:

Ideally if you can find a diameter that will fit the stem snug, that would be best. With the larger SSV tubing that I used, I had to hold it in place.

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I figured as much. I believe I have some extra eq tubing lying around here somewhere, I think I'll try to find it and see if it would work. (I seem to recall the eq tubing being fairly narrow, although I could be mistaken)

Not wanting to add fuel to the flames but I thought that Kemplers comments were reasonable and some beta testers seem overly defensive.
I am waiting on delivery of one of these vapes and I want clear and honest discussion as it ultimately aids development.
I've also got to say I hate it when the forums "top boys" gang up on people . Seen it on many other forums heavy handed mod bullying. Shame really

Noalox Anti-Oxidant
Or
Penetrox A-13

^^ Sold at any HomeDepot, Lowes, HomeHardware, in the electrical section.

With ANY threaded items you always start threading counter-clockwise gently (more so with a soft alloy like alum), until it clicks, then reverse the direction to tighten.

Be gentle, be aware, take some personal responsibility for knowledge in the use of your equipment (common sense).

'Nuff Said

spanner said:

Not wanting to add fuel to the flames but I thought that Kemplers comments were reasonable and some beta testers seem overly defensive.
I am waiting on delivery of one of these vapes and I want clear and honest discussion as it ultimately aids development.

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I generally agree, but let's keep it general and not specific here for the very reason you cite? Let's say I agree it started out reasonable and for some reason(s) got out of control which I think is the real problem? No about it, several of us can be strong minded about vapes we have valid experience with but it's a great disservice to say it's because we got free stuff......that's just not the case at all. I've a very strong supporter of products like MFLB I've bought many of personally, this one's another example of that. It is frankly very insulting to have a guy infer you're being dishonest because you've been bought off as I'm sure you understand. IMO completely out of line and the tactic of a coward that can't defend his stand so attacks the other fellow's integrity from hiding behind a false name. Can we please add that to the list of things to avoid? TIA.

I'm not saying that's what always happens, but the seed is there. Please look at your wording above. IMO you're part way there already and no doubt didn't mean it. Not all who disagree are Beta Testers. IMO linking the two is dangerous.

While civil, I agree open discussion is (or at could be) very productive.

However, adult discourse depends on defending opinions with facts and a willingness to consider the other fellow's point objectively. That doesn't always happen. If you refuse to address the points brought up it's not a discussion or even a debate. It's a rant and that doesn't count IMO.

Against this we have some stiff odds to consider. A LOT of folks lurk here and read stuff of import to them. To be useful that stuff has to be accurate. Hence the Forum format. We discuss, or so the theory goes. The statements made, if not confronted, are rightly taken as truth by innocent folks. The decisions they make are truly life threatening in the extreme. We want folks to vape not blaze, the whole reason we're here. The stakes are indeed high.

So, back to the general case of this last dust up. I think it started out well, but when a couple of us disagreed (based on our experience) we suggested two things I think. One that the design was conventional and sound from an engineering standpoint and had not caused us this problem to date (at least at that level) and secondly that excessive cleaning could easily cause the issue. Neither idea was responded to IMO. Reality has to dominate the discussion I think. If the other fellow brings up a significant point (especially if providing evidence to support it) that really does need addressing IMO. Otherwise it all breaks down.

Let me ask you a question if I may? How would you suggest I (or we if you think it's a gang) should respond to what we see as false information being posted that if left alone will mislead innocent buyers (our fellow Forum Members) into making poor choices? I guess I feel I should speak up, be polite (at least at first), state my points and the supporting evidence and let the discussion continue. If my points are ignored folks can see that for what it is. If the other fellow persists in spouting questionable stuff anyway the initial problem has not changed. I expect the other fellow in a disagreement to back his claims up with facts, I think he has a right to expect that from me. Otherwise we don't have useful information just potentially misleading opinions.

So, how should you handle what you see as bad advice? I don't consider 'attacking the messenger' the right answer as I'm sure you don't.

TIA

OF

spanner said:

Not wanting to add fuel to the flames but I thought that Kemplers comments were reasonable and some beta testers seem overly defensive.
I am waiting on delivery of one of these vapes and I want clear and honest discussion as it ultimately aids development.
I've also got to say I hate it when the forums "top boys" gang up on people . Seen it on many other forums heavy handed mod bullying. Shame really

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This is the same passsive-agressive crap I just pointed out with Kelper. You claim you don't want to add fuel to the flames but then you did it anyway. Don't start out denying what you're about to do, it makes you look like a hypocrite.

First of all, because I'm personally involved in this I did not and will not act as a moderator. Other mods will review your post and decide whether your comment deserves a warning point. Publicly accusing a moderator (specifically me) of bullying is against the rules even if it is true, although I have specifically refrained from acting as a moderator here.

I'm not sure what you mean by ganging up. If you are talking about the number of people who posted that Kelper's problem was unusual, I don't know what to make of that. What do you expect will happen when it turns out that the problem really is uncommon? You actually think that if several owners point that out, they're ganging up on him? Would you rather that everyone remain silent and let the next reader who comes along conclude that it's a common problem?


I did not go after Kelper for reporting his problem, I took exception to his innuendo. Kelper in fact did reveal a problem, it just wasn't the one he claimed. The FV instructions should cover care and lubrication of the threads. This was quickly determined and acknowledged. Where exactly did "some beta testers" get overly defensive?

When several people posted that they hadn't had an issue with the threads, Kelper used innuendo to imply that people who got freebies were covering things up. He was responding to someone who is well known for beta testing and I believed (and still do) that he was implicating OF, even though OF wasn't (and still isn't) identified as a beta tester for FV. The only publicly identified beta tester is me for the S2 kit, and I only mentioned that after Kempler slurred all of our beta testers because he refused to identify who he meant—and he still hasn't. So when you accuse "some beta testers" of being overly defensive, you mean me. If you're making accusations, have the courage to say what you mean instead of tip-toeing around with cowardly hints.

Apparently you feel that freebies influence beta testers to impede "clear and honest discussion". Since beta testers are usually not identified, it's difficult to see how you reach that general conclusion. Do you suspect every owner who defends a device is a secret beta tester trying to cover up a problem? Do you really not grasp that the FV is an excellent device that naturally inspires loyalty and yes, defensiveness, in its owners? How do you expect them to respond when someone with an uncommon problem implies that he's uncovered a horrible design flaw—when he hasn't? Are they all suspects on your list?

Finally, a word to al bundy and Bvapst: "liking" a post that breaks a rule is the same as breaking that rule.

Edited because I mistyped Kelper so many times. At least I was consistent.

spanner said:

Not wanting to add fuel to the flames but I thought that Kemplers comments were reasonable and some beta testers seem overly defensive.
I am waiting on delivery of one of these vapes and I want clear and honest discussion as it ultimately aids development.
I've also got to say I hate it when the forums "top boys" gang up on people . Seen it on many other forums heavy handed mod bullying. Shame really

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You don't want to add fuel to the fire, but you are going to anyway? Guess what? That breaks several of our rules:

*No trolling. Please do not make posts that disrupt the peace and harmony of this board. Don’t post for or the purpose of starting a dispute.
*Public discussions of staff decisions are not permitted on the site. If you have any concerns or queries relating to a staff decision please take it up in private with a staff member.
*If you feel someone is breaking the rules or causing some kind of problem, don’t try to deal with it yourself. Use the Report feature located at the bottom of each post.

And finally, but most importantly:

*If you don’t like the rules or the moderation, feel free not to visit.

Feel lucky right now that you are only getting one warning point.

No more comment from me as I have been warned.
However, I wonder if a better approach to new products might be to offer the first 100? at a discount to early adopters as it seems that they are the real beta testers stumping up their cash sometimes for unfinished vapes.
Would this be a good idea to avoid future controversy?it might also mean that those who are disappointed with the vapes will feel less aggrieved as they purchased at a discount

pakalolo I do see your point I truly do.
But I agree what he said.

Im still very interested in the Flashvape, and want to know everything about it Positive and Negative.

Maybe Kempler got a bad one.

But,true unless you know the beta tester then it is a weak/accusing comment.

I did read all the posts and see where the offensive comments were made, Only Kempler can say if he was zeroing anyone out.

If I had a problem for a new product Id sure want to vent it out some place too.

And I am not stating that anyone in this Flashvape thread is defending anything But i think he was doing just that,venting.

I will say I would have sent a few pictures to Flashvape also though so they could see whats up.

Edit: Got vape companies mixed up. Sorry.

al bundy said:

pakalolo I do see your point I truly do.
But I agree what he said.

Im still very interested in the Flashvape, and want to know everything about it Positive and Negative.

Maybe Kempler got a bad one.

But,true unless you know the beta tester then it is a weak/accusing comment.

I did read all the posts and see where the offensive comments were made, Only Kempler can say if he was zeroing anyone out.

If I had a problem for a new product Id sure want to vent it out some place too.

And I am not stating that anyone in this Flashvape thread is defending anything But i think he was doing just that,venting.

I will say I would have sent a few pictures to Davinci also though so they could see whats up.

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Al, it's not a point of being able to vent or not. We should absolutely post if there are negative experiences with a vape. But when a member starts pointing fingers at others and saying they are being duplicitous, and then goes on to say that the forum and the mods try to perpetuate the lies .... that's another story. And then, when we try to keep it real here, we are accused of being "heavy handed" or "bullying." That's total bullshit and it really pisses me off.

al bundy said:

pakalolo I do see your point I truly do.
But I agree what he said.

Im still very interested in the Flashvape, and want to know everything about it Positive and Negative.

Maybe Kempler got a bad one.

But,true unless you know the beta tester then it is a weak/accusing comment.

I did read all the posts and see where the offensive comments were made, Only Kempler can say if he was zeroing anyone out.

If I had a problem for a new product Id sure want to vent it out some place too.

And I am not stating that anyone in this Flashvape thread is defending anything But i think he was doing just that,venting.

I will say I would have sent a few pictures to Davinci also though so they could see whats up.

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I don't think Davinci_vaporizer will be too interested.

Nobody has prevented anyone from reporting something negative. What happened was that he reported a problem that others said they didn't have, which is exactly how it should work. Turning that into accusations about defensiveness and outright deception is where things went wrong.

A "like" isn't selective. If you agree with some of a post but not all of it and that post contains inflammatory remarks, you would be better off posting a reply stating where you agree. This matter of liking a rule-breaking post was already under discussion by the moderators, incidentally. Don't be surprised if we start handing out warning points for that.

al bundy said:

I did read all the posts and see where the offensive comments were made, Only Kempler can say if he was zeroing anyone out.

If I had a problem for a new product Id sure want to vent it out some place too.

And I am not stating that anyone in this Flashvape thread is defending anything But i think he was doing just that,venting.

I will say I would have sent a few pictures to Davinci also though so they could see whats up.

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Understood, but this isn't the 'vent on vapes you don't like Forum'. The established goal here is "engaging and intelligent discussion". More over there are rules about attacking products and companies that one could argue was at least starting to happen. That's a Mod call, of course, but IMO there may be cause for some concerns there.

As I see it, this is not 'a bully pulpit' to address grievances (although that's a natural thing to want to do sometimes) but a Forum for the exchange of useful advice to those with common interests. Attacks belong elsewhere, generally?

Finally, I'm not sure what DV (being a different maker in a different hemisphere) has to do with this. I also disagree, there are at least two guys who might have an insight into who was being accused of being on the take here......I'll pass on that.

I agree with you though (if I read you correctly) it could have been done better.

OF

OF said:

Understood, but this isn't the 'vent on vapes you don't like Forum'. The established goal here is "engaging and intelligent discussion". More over there are rules about attacking products and companies that one could argue was at least starting to happen. That's a Mod call, of course, but IMO there may be cause for some concerns there.

As I see it, this is not 'a bully pulpit' to address grievances (although that's a natural thing to want to do sometimes) but a Forum for the exchange of useful advice to those with common interests. Attacks belong elsewhere, generally?

Finally, I'm not sure what DV (being a different maker in a different hemisphere) has to do with this. I also disagree, there are at least two guys who might have an insight into who was being accused of being on the take here......I'll pass on that.

I agree with you though (if I read you correctly) it could have been done better.

OF

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Actually Kepler said he loved his FV and I think he still does, since he went to a lot of trouble to get his working again. I'm pretty sure al bundy just had a brain fart and typed Davinci when he meant FlashVAPE.

Anyway, this distraction is now officially off-topic and I'll delete further posts on it. That doesn't mean that rule-breaking posts like the deleted one that spanner made will not attract warning points. That's how he got banned.