First vape: Vapir NO2 or other similarly-priced vapes

Hey everybody,

Long time FC "forum lurker", first time poster.
I've read through many of the various threads in the Portables forum, and through various research, I've found the Vapir NO2 to my liking for its price.
I read the entire Vapir NO2 thread to garner more info, and I found that if I wish to receive a non-defective (no plastic smell, no cheap parts) model and also receive a warranty, I'll have to pay the manufacture price.

I decided the best thing to do is to be an adult and pay the full price.
Then a staunch realization occurred -- with my price range in the $200s, I can afford other options such as a Da Buddah (which seems to have great acclaim on this site).

I'd be grateful if you guys could help me out.
I'm looking for something like...

Price
$200 top of my price range.

Delivery System
No preference. I don't think I would be a huge bag fan, but any whip or glass or native piece would be fine.
I'm leaning more towards portables.

Efficiency
I'm interested in a decent efficiency. I don't mean like super-amazing 0.025g per bowl like the Purple Daze (as freakin' awesome as that is). Somewhere around 0.1 - 0.2 per bowl/chamber/trough/whatever.

Manufacturer
Vapir and Arizer has had issues with "rogue units" -- cheap China knockoffs that come with defects and are not backed by warranty.
I understand I have to pay full-price for a legitimate unit. That's fine as long as it's legit.

Stealth
Stealth isn't that huge of a deal to me. Although the MFLB is the king of stealth, I see stealth as a matter of creativity. The Solo and the NO2 can be placed in a drink cup. As far as stealth goes, I have no preference.

Learning Curve
A learning curve doesn't bother me any. I've seen some intro vids for the MFLB and it doesn't seem too complicated. I don't know of any other vapes with as steep of a learning curve and the MFLB seems fine.

Temperature Control
This is a biggie for me. That means for anyone who recommends a MFLB, the Power Adapter is an absolute must (but that does cut down on the portability, sadly).

Other Factors
The Solo seems great, but I can't use it while it's charging and that's necessary to me.
My current setup is just a standard GonG bong so I feel like I would be a fan of big, thick vapor clouds.
I'd also like to set my vape up with my bong. The MFLB adapter for bongs seems oddly pricey for a piece of wood and glass. Whip adapters range from $10 - $15 and that seems more reasonable to me.


Well, that was probably a mouthful.
I appreciate any help you guys could give me.

Thanks in advanced,
vx13

The INH004 seems like exactly what you want, but it's a bit above your price (~$210 with FC discount)

As well; I'd just like to point out that the Arizer knockoff that was made was an V-Tower clone and that is not very common at all. There are no counterfeit solos that have been made to my knowledge, and if they existed, they would be on Alibaba. You can get the solo for around 160, and if your anticipating mostly home use then you can also get the pass through adapter that lets you run it off the wall.

Where do you think that you would be looking to use the unit most of the time?

Go for a DBV !
None of those portable vapes match the quality of a home base unit such as the DBV.

And imHo forget about Vapir, too much craps in their past to fully trust the latest model.

@deadc0ffee the INH004 actually fills my criteria extremely well! It's definitely in the running. It just seems that they don't have a primary distributor. Kinda feels like I'll have to hunt it like a Purple Daze... but for what seems like a quality product, I definitely will look into this one.

@CentiZen I would liken my usage of this vape to a 12 in.~ bong i.e. great for home use but not a hassle to pack up and drag around. Use on the go (portability) would be a giant plus.

@Raf007 I know I wouldn't be disappointed with a DBV under any circumstance
It is a shame there isn't a portable version, though. Always imagined vaping on the beach, y'know?
After reading the entire Vapir thread here on FC, I think it is safe to say that Vapir had a rocky start but has recently been cleaning up their act.

Thanks for all the input!
I stopped considering the ThermoVape T1 and now it's NO2 vs. Inhalater.
And I've decided my second vape will be a desktop -- DBV

Check out http://vaporpedia.com/wiki/Inhalater for more information (including known retailers)

I don't know how quickly you want it, but thermovape/thermoessence is unveiling the Cera as we speak type.
EDIT: For $200 , but it may be more to use it plugged into the wall

Salutations vx13,

vx13 said:

Long time FC "forum lurker", first time poster.

Click to expand...

Since you've been around for a while i'm guessing there are posts of mine which may evoke something.

Two years ago i might not have thought this but now i believe - with the benefit of a minimal but reasonable amount of "inside" perspective - well, it seems to me that i'd be able to travel back in time and provide myself exactly the type of advice i wanted so much in 2010, euh... In the begining my budget was in the 120 - 150 $ Cdn range but then i found out later that's no typical economic domain - at least not in the same category as Walmart offers and certainly not anytime soon in a local store. Or i may happen to be dead wrong and they actually prepare something coming for Christmass!...



I'm not going to ask you if you believe in Santa Clauss but, well... Do you believe in the "Spirit of Christmass" we shall say?



Hummm... Lets rewind... Ha yes!... My hesitations lasted 3 months during which the task of reaching a satisfying decision felt as unpaid work (e.g. a nightmare). I didn't count my time, i had a constant internet presence, the more i read the harder things got, etc. At some point i even came to fear i might just want to give up!



Finally raising my budget (to ~315 $ Cdn if memory serves me well) helped to unlock the situation. It's one thing to acquire a laser printer, it's quite another to buy a vaporizer i'm afraid...



you see, quite a few models appear to be conceptually wrong when one pays attention to matters which other members already shead some light on. As a result, if you ask me about the NO2 i'd point out that as far as i'm concerned i'm virtually ready to bet you won't like the NO2 as much once you've looked closely at some internal pictures. Unless i'm mistaking and you felt compelled by whatever it is that you saw!...



So, please allow me to share with you the advice i've been unable to deliver to myself about 2 years ago! Hang on, here it comes and there could be waves!!

1st of all try to favour "obvious" air/vapour paths. By this i mean those cases where the consumer doesn't need to think hard in order to conceptualize this most critical feature.

Last summer my list of vaporiser brands/models reached beyond 200 and it's likely to be significantly more because i'm no specialist! If an apparatus is required to regulate temperature on top of that then we're in trouble because few are left in the end:

...

Euh...



Quite "obvious" paths and equipped with a true thermostat, but the budget... Ouch!

That's going to be a tougher one than you gambled for!!!

Unless you double as i did! ...and perhaps beyond...



Ah! Wait... Somebody is going to assassinate me if i neglect a candidate so i won't take chances:


I think at least one of them does implement true thermostatic control, but lets guess both do!

Now, it's important i make it crystal-clear that i haven't read everything there is to see so i'd need to check to make sure. In any case i'd apply severe discrimination relatively to the said paths before i agree to make any trade-offs - which is why those two made it there - though i must admit that should i had followed this exact piece of advice HerbalAire would never have received my cheque and yet it's a pretty decent item to choose for a 1st vaporizer, IMHO!



If we stretch it to acknowledge "fairly obvious" layouts then it's possible there may be suitable candidates in the 200 $ vincinity after all. A Da Buddha wouldn't qualify for me because this is synonymous of rheostatic to begin with. I like its big brother the SSV better but that's still the same type of heater and neither you or myself seem to be attracted by them.



So, in the thermostat-like category:


N.B.: the paths are practically "obvious" to me now and i've taken active measures so it suits my taste even better.

...

We also know these products below equally behave as a thermostat instead of a dimmer and they're not twice your budget neither:


Woups! Zero, none!! aHummm... At least i know i don't like the Arizer Extreme Q, some photographs again...



Ah! Maybe:


But that's getting expensive compared to the target budget and worst: we clearly lack review activity for that one. Same thing about digital Heat Gun solutions although a nice article resurfaced lately.

...

I'm ignoring the e-cigs & portables altogether because my set of criterias excludes them all for a lack of clear/easy-to-find illustrations, as a consequence of co$t too... Possible presence of synthetic materials, etc, etc... If one requires a temperature-regulated "semi-obvious" path with no synthetics then it really won't leave many options to spare!

Oh, and lets not forget there are rheostatic units disguised as thermostatic ones!...

Euh...

Now that hurts!



Next and last on my list (i almost forgot!):


...but that's still way beyond 200 $, it's not "obvious" at all and hence you ain't even got 1 possible option falling close to your price-tag, except:


The product actively regulates temperature and i suspect its heat-exchanger emulates a pile of heated rocks (which feels good somehow). Only, there's a mechanism to revive the fire when temperature drops...

Since i use a glass accessory to complete my HA crucible the matter of synthetics no longer worries me much. As for my air/vapor path i'm also satisfied with it but this could be misleading because there's a version 2.2 these days.

Other than that i'd suggest you also offer yourself a "treat" so to speak, something way more trivial in terms of consumer spendings to balance things out so to speak (to render the event less dramatic in case you get disapointed at 1st):

I'd also give this one a thought but that's me (because sturdiness makes it look like a reliable "Plan-B"):
Good luck, have fun!

Egzoset said:

[...]

Click to expand...

That's why I love the inhalater, it's like a portable herbalaire.

Connection issue, double post. Please delete.

Egzoset said:

Salutations vx13,



Since you've been around for a while i'm guessing there are posts of mine which may evoke something.

Two years ago i might not have thought this but now i believe - with the benefit of a minimal but reasonable amount of "inside" perspective - well, it seems to me that i'd be able to travel back in time and provide myself exactly the type of advice i wanted so much in 2010, euh... In the begining my budget was in the 120 - 150 $ Cdn range but then i found out later that's no typical ...

Click to expand...

LOL!
Egzoset, your reply had me on my ass laughing!
Granted, I'm medicated late into the evening, but it was hysterical nonetheless.
Still made my day haha
I do believe in Santa Claus as a matter of fact

But on top of funny, very solid advice.
HerbalAire enthusiast, are we?

I had to check it out with a post like that.
It took one video to blow me away.
FIVE BAGS.
This thing fills 5 full bags all the same time within a minute and a half time interval!
This is stuff only the vapor gods can attain!
My jaw dropped watching this video.
(again, take note of my mental state)

At any rate, the HerbalAire just crushed the DBV for my pick of my new desktop vape.

The thermosensor placement isn't ideal, but the unit runs a bit hot so it should make up for it.
The whole plastic-y smell situation has been addressed it seems from the related thread.
Any other major flaws?

Thanks again for the informative post

{Part #1, due to the 10000 characters limit}



Hi-again,

vx13 said:

I do believe in Santa Claus...

Click to expand...

Now that's the spirit, i want to be a part of that fan club!

vx13 said:

HerbalAire enthusiast, are we?

Click to expand...

Yep, although it may not seem so as i'll criticise the HA (v2.1 e.g. mine) the same i would for any other brand/model, using the information at hand - and sometimes there ain't plenty of it!

All that matters is i'm happy with it for the most part. I'll comment the rest a bit later...

vx13 said:

This thing fills 5 full bags all the same time within a minute and a half time interval!

Click to expand...

Perhaps the load was extra-resinous but it's certainly capable of supporting a group of 2-3 persons without an issue. That's what i experienced with a couple of persons dear to me: the husband seemed to get more than he could manage while his wife just lost her equilibrium and landed to the ground... It was memorable for everyone!

vx13 said:

The thermosensor placement isn't ideal...

Click to expand...

If you mean this:



...then i must point out that's the thermal protection in dark-brown dressing, probably a fuse since it's series-connected with the heater element (2 heavy red wires). The HerbalAire v2.1 does include a thermal sensor, it's simply not directly visible on this image. That thermocouple is inserted between the outer surface of the ceramic element's metal jacket and the inner metal tube it sits in. It's pretty much like a standard ceramic heating element featured with a metallic outer shell.

The heat-exchanger bloc itself contains 2 concentric metal tubes and the heater element is inserted inside the smaller tube. The air inside this smaller space is in contact with the ceramic/metalized heater element but there's just no contact with my air/vapour path because a teflon/PTFE ring seals the base and supports the heat-exchanger structurally. While the inner tube appears to have a closed end the main bloc has an oven to insert the HA crucible, or in my case an Arizer glass accessory to bypass the other teflon/PTFE piece (near its opening). That oven connects through HerbalAire's famous 18 holes to the actual heat-exchanging chamber that surrounds the inner chamber. That larger chamber is where fresh air gets thermalized to the core's temperature or so: it enters via the white opening we see on the left side. This means fresh air arrives directly from outside and never gets a chance to mix up with potentially "contaminated" air paths whatsoever - which doesn't mean the main heat-exchanging chamber can't be contaminated through one of the air/vapour access holes...

So, with all of these things now said it's easier for me to convey the idea that the ceramic/metalized heating element has some sort of identation at its base forming a large-enough notch to insert the thermocouple's head which installs sandwich-style between the element and the inner side of the inner chamber/tube. A part of the rectangular teflon/PTFE strip penetrates inside that inner chamber (together with the heating element) and a yellow wire can be noticed to lead to it, the 2nd one being hidden behind on this photograph. The purpose of this rectangular teflon/PTFE strip is to prevent displacement of the heating element and/or sensor.

My guess is that the heat flow would be relatively uniform in such a metal structure. I'd like my HerbalAire to monitor temperature right inside its crucible but it seems that's not possible with most other products neither... The regulation loop must be tamed down considerably because of the metallic mass, perhaps temperature sampling doesn't have to be critically located when implementing in a slow loop. ...or it could be just the opposite but we'll never know because HerbalAire doesn't appear to volunteer information of this nature! Go figure.

vx13 said:

...the unit runs a bit hot...

Click to expand...

Lets continue to talk about chambers because there's even more...

It turns out the HA v2.1 "waistband" line separates 2 compartments which summ up together as the whole volume contained by the nylon-filled plastic casing. The upper chamber hosts the heater assembly, there's a fairly thick layer of thermal insulation between it and the black shell since the compartment is filled in a way that makes it tricky to remove its heat-exchanger bloc, or put it back for that matter... As for the base compartment that's where electronics are. Not much to comment about, the HA v2.1 has a power transformer connected to a bridge-rectifier which feeds a 5 Volts voltage regulator. On one side a power transistor controls the heater while a pair of chips implement the temperature regulation loop. Which is why i wasn't too surprized to find posts on the servo controlled Hakko soldering iron - that's fine with me as i'd rather trust a decades-old well known/tested technology than hope for vaporizer manufacturers to provide every single part they use in their products. I really don't mind much as long as heat transfers are done safely and predictably. By the way, talking of "heat transfers", i've never burned myself on the HA v2.1 unless i touched my oven or the teflon/PTFE support rim forming its opening. The fresh air inlet hole (behind, where the pump connects) is warm but not burning-hot (i plug it with a fingertip routinely in whip-style mode (e.g. Solo glass stem accessory). The warm carved plastic shell only sooths hurting hands in the cold seasons i'd argue!

Now, the pitfalls...

vx13 said:

The whole plastic-y smell situation has been addressed it seems from the related thread.

Click to expand...

Yes, on day #1 i thought it could be something serious but i was dead wrong as the added synthetic fragrance seemed to disapear after a short while. Nothing to worry about under normal circumstances but i don't work in a French perfume factory after all!... Anyway, that was a tubing issue for the most part but the HA supporting multiple inhalation modes i've verified that it's quite feasible to discard that tubing! Or at least the larger part of it.

Not a big source of concern if you got yummy buds...

{Part #2 of 2, due to the 10000 characters limit}


The flaws, finally:

1) Internal layout
2) User interface
3) No glass whip
4) No "boost" mode

Personally i don't like how the v2.1 A.C. power transformer is installed directly on the PC Board. Considering the price tag i'd have expected this large mass to be mechanically decoupled from the rest (and supported by the shell instead). To the least it's the transformer that should have supported a circuit assembly and not the contrary, considering the respective weights! So, as conceived the HerbalAire's casing may not prove to be as sturdy as it's been claimed to be: i know i wouldn't want to try my luck as a fair amount of kinetic energy might be transfered from that transformer to the circuitry if it's a bad day... Well, to be fair i must add that i did drop it maybe a dozen times (you know, stoners)... Also, even if it dies i'll always have the possibility to remove the electronic assembly to drive the heater directly via a light dimmer. If it's the heating element itself which has died then i could simply make the heat-exchanger bloc sit on the tip of a regular soldering iron, connected to a light dimmer as well. Or it could be the signal for a new experiment involving halogen bulbs! Etc. Perhaps one note of caution would be to the effect that the outer heat-exchanging chamber isn't accessible for maintenance in case of a spill: heat would bake potential contaminants inside that chamber where a supply of fresh air is supposed to arrive. Always have grain alcohol handy, it's required for normal cleanups in any case since no one wishes to scratch the metal finish...

Another item to comment is how one interracts with the HerbalAire control button and multicolour LED indicator (v2.1) as i find it's not convenient having to turn it Off and On every 30 minutes (but that depends what you're doing with your vaporizer). Lets hope the visual indications were made more obvious in the new 2.2 version. Lights on the top would be nice too but they didn't expect a user to poke Arizer's Solo glass stem into the loading entry i suppose! Yet it's something useful (and hypnotic!) to actually see the flow of cannabic vapour react to inhalation effort: it even feels a bit self-therapeutic one might conclude!



Which brings me to the matter of glass: there's none. Simple case! At least the oven's dimensions happen to be compatible with some 3rd-party alternative solutions.

Finally (almost!): lack of heat for those days when the owner would require an extra boost in temperature. HerbalAire has made sure we can't contaminate our ovens with combustion by-products which might propagate to the heat-exchanging chamber - and THAT is an absolute no-no because it would risk to stick around and ruin many more sessions. So, it wasn't such a bad idea in this particular case, but sometimes i have to wonder if a moderate kick wouldn't help. That's all.

Ah, and the legs!...

THERE'S NO NEED FOR 4 WHEN IT'S STABLE WITH ONLY 3!!!

I hope someone will read this at HerbalAire's headquarters, that's why i shake the tree once in a while about that and today is one of those days: shake the tree and an apple just might fall!



Other than that i'd want to see ceramic being used as a buffer between hot metal and teflon/PTFE, to avoid using the later material for mechanical support when possible, while it's being stressed by intense heat, etc. Maybe that's no good for the manufacturer but i'd have peace of mind, even if Teflon/PTFE is already operating at safe temperatures.

Oh, and an USB interface to drive the heater externally via a computer!! With spread-sheet porn-curves displaying my inhalation parameters in real-time!!! Ah! Ah!

Letter to Santa: Dear Santa...

...

IMHO you still get a fair bargain when one compares with competitor offers, which explains my relative enthousiasm towards the HerbalAire... But who am i to write in lengths about 210+ vaporizers when i only own 1 single vapo?!...

So, in the end you'll have to do the walking alone. By chance we have member testimonies with some useful photographs on occasions, plus feedback from a number of manufacturers. Too bad there's no systematic database/tabloïd system to find our route through this jungle!!

I recommend the Solo, for many reasons.

PROS:
- Excellent vapor production for a portable, IMO comparable to many home units.
- Quite good battery life, roundabout twice as good as the Da Vinci and No2.
- Great temp range, hot enough for all concentrates.
- Good build quality. It's feels very solid in your hand, and impresses as once with its aluminum chasis.
- Made in Canada, not China like many of its contemporaries.
- Exceedingly easy to share with strangers and acquaintances since it has almost no learning curve.
- Very fair price.
- Great flavor for a portable, better than No2, Iolite, MFLB, about the same as an Evolution/T1.
- The stem will mate easily to a 14mm glass on glass joint for use with waterpipes
- Very, very efficient. I'm often amazed by how little I go through when I am have a Solo-centric day.

CONS:
- Can't use while charging. You have to purchase an aftermarket cable at a phenomenal price (40$~) if you want to.
- Glass stems. While they provide great flavor and a great vaporizing experience, they're delicate. Glass components are fine at home but can be a pain in the ass when you're out in the real world. I and my friends have broken 4 of my stems. Ed's TnT makes beautiful wood stems which solve this issue but require a small investment after the fact.
- Bowl could be larger.

The No2 is also a very good unit, but it's twice as large, has inferior battery life, does not taste quite as good, does not work as well with concentrates imo, and doesn't mate as easily to glass joints. It does have the advantage of having no delicate glass parts and also has a larger bowl. The No2 will not fit in most normal size coffee cup for stealth purposes if that's what you think OP.

The new IH model is certainly interesting and I know less about it.