Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud

Purpl3_Haz3 · Oct 13, 2012

High Sigh said:
Your lucky you know its broken and can send it back instead of being void due to it breaking... Anyways heres those pics again, sorry, was in a rush last time and havent gotten the chance to upload more till now.

Once again, as you see, the joint snapping could have been avoided, but the sliding of my bamboo could not have, unless I had just bought it and let it sit there... At least they are admitting to someone that the defect was their fault and are replacing it. Good luck with your cloud Canna, It really is a great vape when its not broken, probably the best.

So, can the tube be pushed back in, completely? And, if so, does it vape about the same as it always has? and has the tube been like this, since you got the unit, or just since the joint broke?

If you answered yes to the first two, you could probably meet up with a glass blower, and have yourself a working cloud. (IMO best bet would be a new joint on the existing bamboo, so you won't have to replicate the exact dimensions/orifices of the bamboo) If you answered yes to the last one, do you think that your Clouds performance has been on par with other users, based on videos/descriptions? I'm just curious as to how much of a difference is made by the bamboo not being directly 'fused' to the heating element.

For the time being, it looks like (from the pics you provided) you can still vape with it, carefully.

@Stu, what was the temp at when you hit the Devastator? (pic looks like max-ish?) I'm anxious to see the videos that surely will come, after it's released and gets into the hands of FC members, and more!

Stu · Oct 13, 2012

Purpl3_Haz3 said:
@Stu, what was the temp at when you hit the Devastator? (pic looks like max-ish?) I'm anxious to see the videos that surely will come, after it's released and gets into the hands of FC members, and more!

That picture was taken with the temp almost maxed. I also took some hits at noon, and at 3:00. They had most of the Clouds on a higher settings for all the neanderthal combusters walking around.
:peace:

Pappy · Oct 13, 2012

^ 3:00 is Pappy Time!

newVaper420 · Oct 14, 2012

Stu said:
I didn't get a specific date, but I'm guessing sooner rather than later. I did hear the pricing (it will include the CloudBuddy from what I understand), but I'd rather let StoneMonkey or Troi announce it officially.

Cool, no worries. I completely understand. I can't wait to use my Cloud again.

-----

@High Sigh - thanks for the pics. Very interesting look at the bamboo. Not sure what happened here, but totally sucks your Cloud is broken. Hope you get it resolved somehow.

oldiebutgoodie · Oct 14, 2012

Purpl3_Haz3 said:
. . . I'm just curious as to how much of a difference is made by the bamboo not being directly 'fused' to the heating element . . .

The tubes were tightly wound, but AFAICT not fused. I notice that the small flair at the bottom of the tube that acted as a stop, seems to not be there now. This reminds that VXL is using a different supplier for the heater assembly; it is now a component provided to the final assembly contractor. Perhaps there were also design changes that accompanied that vendor change. We could speculate that we're seeing an enhancement that permits replacement of the tube, or that a change was made with unintended consequences, or that this is a fluke/flaw in the new assembly design and/or process. For sure, the tube in mine won't come out that way.

Purpl3_Haz3 · Oct 14, 2012

oldiebutgoodie said:
The tubes were tightly wound, but AFAICT not fused. I notice that the small flair at the bottom of the tube that acted as a stop, seems to not be there now. This reminds that VXL is using a different supplier for the heater assembly; it is now a component provided to the final assembly contractor. Perhaps there were also design changes that accompanied that vendor change. We could speculate that we're seeing an enhancement that permits replacement of the tube, or that a change was made with unintended consequences, or that this is a fluke/flaw in the new assembly design and/or process. For sure, the tube in mine won't come out that way.

I know mine has never been 'fused,' yet held in place by pressure/friction. IIRC vxl claims that the tube's are fused. Mine has always rotated/moved up/down ever so slightly. Mine also cannot come out due to the flair. According to troi, the glass bamboo, and heater are fused in the Cloud. Also, according to troi, the glass bamboo moves a little. So, either the bamboo AND the heater move slightly, or the bamboo is not really fused to the heater, yet just held tightly in place.

Regardless, these quotes are a little contradicting

Troi said:
The inner glass tube is referred to as the "Bamboo" at VXL, the inner bamboo is as designed able to move slightly, if we made it 100% stiff the cloud would be much more fragile by allowing that glass to give a little bit, we noticed that the cloud has a higher likelihood of surviving a minor drop, ect. If glass is locked in place, and there is a trauma, it will break easier.

First, the bamboo is supposed to move, slightly.

Troi said:
Customers,

VXL does not offer a replacement glass tube, a inner glass tube "bamboo" can't be removed in that fashion and replaced. For the cloud to work it requires heater core to be fused to the outside of the bamboo, any attempt to perform this at home will be unsuccessful and potentially dangerous.

Now the bamboo is fused to the heater, doesn't sound like it could move...

Troi said:
Guys, While We feel for your situation @HighSigh, your unit was not faulty. The break was caused by it being knocked over, the play of the bamboo, as I have stated before is as designed.

It is mechanically impossible for his cloud to work if the heater was not fused to the glass from the get go.

Now the bamboo moves, and is fused, at the same time... :shrug:

Quetzalcoatl · Oct 14, 2012

That's why I asked like 6 pages back... if it were fused and couldn't possibly mechanically work... then why does his come all the way out and still work? I figured it was "wrapped" by something and the heat transferred through the glass. It doesn't make sense for them to say it can't work without it being fused, yet HS is posting pictures of the bamboo all the way out, and being used.

vaplexus · Oct 14, 2012

And yea i know I dont own a cloud but i know a thing or too about industrialdesign, mechanical and electronic engineering, physics and chemistry. i see no benefit in fusing the heater to the bamboo and in fact doing so could be counter productive if the goal is even heat transfer. in fact unless the outside chassis of the heater that is fused to the bamboo does not have the same thermal expansion as the bamboo, it would be very hard to not have the fuses joint break due to dissimilar expansion characteristics. the cost involved in making this work (fusing) would likely be a waste as there is no need to fuse them in the first place. direct tight contact but allowing the heater and bamboo to mechanically move independently would make more sense and be a better design for heat tranfer and allow independent mehanical movment due to thermal expansion/contraction.

it iw worrisome to hear VXH say they are fused and then read some of failure mode reports from users because it could be there the case they are bonded somehow and break due to stresses from thermal expansion. i am hoping this is not the case and that they really just press fit to allow movement. the former would be a poor design decision.

nugghuffer · Oct 14, 2012

I'm not really sure what the "bamboo" tube is supposed to do in regards to moving or not moving slightly, but mine does NOT move at all and I prefer it that way. It also has the flared bottom so I hope this never becomes an issue for me. This reminds me of when I first got the VHW and read how the heater cover was supposed to be somewhat loose and have a little play when you used it, but when I watched videos of people using it theirs did not move at all (SM55's videos specifically) so I tightened the screw on the cover to make it tighter and it worked much better that way.

Those quotes from VXL just above my post do seem to be a bit contradicting so it'd be nice to get some clarification from SM because it seems like Troi doesn't know what he's talking about (no offense dude).

Purpl3_Haz3 · Oct 14, 2012

nugghuffer said:
Those quotes from VXL just above my post do seem to be a bit contradicting so it'd be nice to get some clarification from SM because it seems like Troi doesn't know what he's talking about (no offense dude).

I wasn't going to say that specifically, but what I would say, is maybe he (troi) or they (vxl) are trying to dumb down the terminology/explanation, as much as possible, to explain a point, not realizing that it's spreading misinformation. Like when you're taught something at a young age, that isn't completely true, but true enough to get the point across at the time, and then later in life, you learn the rest of it. Not saying I agree with this, but it would explain why we are being told that the glass tube id fused in place, and being told it moves. I am more inclined to believe that the tube is pressure fitted, somewhat along the lines of what Vape Lexus was saying. It just makes more sense.

While this will probably come across as the whole 'beggar trying to choose' thing, I hope it doesn't; I am grateful that we get such an awesome look inside what is VXL, and the Cloud, via VXL itself, and it's continued presence on the forum. But, I would only want this presence, if it was one that spread truthful information. I would rather not have any input from a manufacturer, than to have input that is false/misleading/incorrect/dumbed down.

I am not saying that VXL is guilty at all of any of that (lying, being misleading, or dumbing down info.) What I am saying, is that I can't seem to make full sense of some of the information that is presented, in this thread, by representatives of VXL. PLEASE do not take this as an attack, VXL, or anyone.

nugghuffer · Oct 14, 2012

Purpl3_Haz3 said:
I wasn't going to say that specifically, but what I would say, is maybe he (troi) or they (vxl) are trying to dumb down the terminology/explanation, as much as possible, to explain a point, not realizing that it's spreading misinformation.

That's a good way of saying it and I wasn't really trying to say that Troi doesn't know anything about the process (hard to show body language and tone of voice through text). It just didn't make sense to say something was fused to another object but was supposed to have room to move too. Either way, I'm extremely satisfied with my Cloud and still babying it every day.

I also can't wait to see some better/close-up pics of the Devastator and how much it will cost. I hope it's not too expensive but if it is, 2012bc has very similar Lego-like bubblers that he's been making for a few years now that could be a good alternative. The big advantage the Devastator has over those pieces is that you can change out the perc since it's pretty much a huge downstem. To anybody who has tried out the Devastator: is the showerhead gridded or no?

Purpl3_Haz3 · Oct 14, 2012

nugghuffer said:
That's a good way of saying it and I wasn't really trying to say that Troi doesn't know anything about the process (hard to show body language and tone of voice through text). It just didn't make sense to say something was fused to another object but was supposed to have room to move too. Either way, I'm extremely satisfied with my Cloud and still babying it every day.

I kind of got that vibe from your post...didn't think you were harping on troi at all

I'm sure he'll chime in soon, and things we'll be okay.

nugghuffer said:
I also can't wait to see some better/close-up pics of the Devastator and how much it will cost. I hope it's not too expensive but if it is, 2012bc has very similar Lego-like bubblers that he's been making for a few years now that could be a good alternative. The big advantage the Devastator has over those pieces is that you can change out the perc since it's pretty much a huge downstem. To anybody who has tried out the Devastator: is the showerhead gridded or no?

Funny that you mention the 2012BC 'lego style' pieces, as I was browsing Cloud videos on YouTube last night, and stumbled upon one of SM55 hitting the 'bent beta' in a BC 2010 piece that looks a lot like the devastator! I bet there was some kind of inspiration gathered from the BC 2010 piece, that went into the Devastator. As you mention, the removable percs are a huge plus IMO!

oldiebutgoodie · Oct 14, 2012

Purpl3_Haz3 said:
I wasn't going to say that specifically, but what I would say, is maybe he (troi) or they (vxl) are trying to dumb down the terminology/explanation, as much as possible, to explain a point, not realizing that it's spreading misinformation . . .

I wonder if the source of confusion is the term "fused". I faintly seem to recall the mention of an adhesive, but can't remember is that was a was or a to be; however, in the OP's pics looking down from the top, the heater wrap looks to be a different material than what I saw. What I have seen is that the thermal shielding which contains the heater element was wound like an angled coil. To withdraw the tube would require forcefully elongating the coil (which would break it) or breaking the tube free from the hold, but either would be prevented by the stops. The absence of the flair stop and the inside view leans me to speculate that there has been a design change.

Purpl3_Haz3 · Oct 14, 2012

oldiebutgoodie said:
I wonder if the source of confusion is the term "fused". I faintly seem to recall the mention of an adhesive, but can't remember is that was a was or a to be; however, in the OP's pics looking down from the top, the heater wrap looks to be a different material than what I saw. What I have seen is that the thermal shielding which contains the heater element was wound like an angled coil. To withdraw the tube would require forcefully elongating the coil (which would break it) or breaking the tube free from the hold, but either would be prevented by the stops. The absence of the flair stop and the inside view leans me to speculate that there has been a design change.

That's something that bugs me a little. The original betas appeared to have no flare, and now some new clouds appear to have no flare, while some in between do have a flare. Also, at some point along the line, they silently started to produce silent clouds, that didn't click. The first mention of it here, AFAIK, was a new Cloud owner, asking if his Cloud should be ticking or not, because it wasn't ticking, but was producing vapor. A lot of people were/are bugged by the clicking noise (l like it, now(stockholm syndrome? lol)) yet when they started producing clouds that ran silent, they never announced it...

I'd kind of like to know what changes the Cloud has gone through since being publicly released, or even since I received my Cloud in august. Don't get me wrong, I love my Cloud, and wouldn't send it back unless it broke, but I'm curious as to 'what Cloud I have?' Revision X.X.X.XX.X.XXXa?

Progress · Oct 14, 2012

I was just reading to catch up on things after a little road trip, and realized that I plugged my Cloud into an unfamilliar outlet unprotected!!!

Does it mean that there is a problem with my Cloud if it changes from red to green in about 10 minutes and creates amazingly tasty clouds of dense vapor?

It has behaved this way from day one, but I figured that it couldn't hurt to check, right? :lol:

It was nice to meet some fellow fook-hairs of com-boos-T-own, and I appreciate the opportunity to camp out on an adjusted Cloud for a bit, rather than being stuck with my portable 'go-to' and mini-bub all day. :tup:

Thanks go out to all of the 'scrubby fuckers' (an endearing term for the combustion fuckers who were decked out in the medical scrubs) for entertaining my sometimes-frantic shennanigans and ramblings.

I think that I realized that I need a battery backpack with a surge protector and my own Cloud for the next similar event I attend.

<----just kidding

Toke it easy, all. :cool:

oldiebutgoodie · Oct 14, 2012

Purpl3_Haz3 said:
That's something that bugs me a little . . . Revision X.X.X.XX.X.XXXa?

Ordinarily manufacturers only announce major releases. Within a typical release cycle there can be quite a number of changes. The unwritten rule is that interim changes are only announced on a "need to know" basis, or for marketing reasons. This forum understandably sorta bends that rule because of the very close interaction between members here and VXL from the get-go and thru all the ups-and-downs along the way. IMO it would be constructive for VXL to share those changes (and only those) that directly relate to concerns discussed or guidance that has been provided earlier; doing so builds more loyalty and avoids mis-steps or mis-information based on old data. The sleeve is one example. The issue & resolution re the tight ELB's is another. There have been others. We don't know is this is applicable to the tube because we don't have any info about it from VXL; given all the discussion about it moving or not, I would hope if there has been a fundamental design change that that info would be shared; on the other hand we may be simply looking at one botched unit, so there's nothing really to share. End of the day of course, it's a judgment call by VXL.

Vaporlover · Oct 14, 2012

In other news, seems like the viVape one at the expo. Has anyone here used both/can provide a comparison?

Ontariovapes · Oct 14, 2012

Vaporlover said:
In other news, seems like the viVape one at the expo. Has anyone here used both/can provide a comparison?

I own both but there really is no comparing them. They are both top end units that are unsurpassed in what they do, but they do different things. The viVape is a bag and whip vape it heats fast, has digital temp adjustment , and has a fan. To use it with a water piece the hose and a glass adapter need be used. The cloud heats slowly, has an analog temp adjust, and no fan, and requires a glass piece for use. The only thing they have in common is the all glass vapor path and the high end price. Both excellents vapes.

CentiZen · Oct 14, 2012

Unsurpassed at what they do? I wouldn't say that about the ViVape; the EQ and HerbalAire exist.

I'm really starting to worry about the how hot the cloud gets while running... I mean, it can get hot enough that the outer metal sheet is like touching a pot of coffee. There is protection in it to ensure that my cloud won't just become one massive heating element right? I don't want to sound like I'm doubting the clouds safety it's just... mine gets REALLY hot.

newVaper420 · Oct 14, 2012

CentiZen said:
Unsurpassed at what they do? I wouldn't say that about the ViVape; the EQ and HerbalAire exist.

I'm really starting to worry about the how hot the cloud gets while running... I mean, it can get hot enough that the outer metal sheet is like touching a pot of coffee. There is protection in it to ensure that my cloud won't just become one massive heating element right? I don't want to sound like I'm doubting the clouds safety it's just... mine gets REALLY hot.

Well, I don't mean to scare you but thats exactly what happened to mine. It got too hot, and combusted the medicine in my ELB. I sent it back for warranty. It was at 12:00 O'Clock.

But yes, if everything is working, the knob throttles the temperature.

Purpl3_Haz3 · Oct 14, 2012

CentiZen said:
I'm really starting to worry about the how hot the cloud gets while running... I mean, it can get hot enough that the outer metal sheet is like touching a pot of coffee. There is protection in it to ensure that my cloud won't just become one massive heating element right? I don't want to sound like I'm doubting the clouds safety it's just... mine gets REALLY hot.

It's fine. Er, normal. As long as your Cloud will go to a green light, it shouldn't be heating continuously. While the outer shell gets hotter, the Cloud vapes at the same temp. The heat just soaks through. I won't clog this thread anymore by re-posting this pic, or quoting Stu, but he did an experiment a while back, with an IR thermometer that showed the outer casing of the Cloud getting hotter and hotter, while the Cloud remains at the same temp (vaping temp.)

Think of it like this, the clouds black shell keeps the Cloud from getting too hot, for the average session. It's lengthy sessions that lead to the real heat.

Troi said:
bassplayer said:

I wonder if I have a Cloud that doesn't stop heating up. If I keep it at 10 o'clock the outer casing will be a little warm when the light turns green. If I leave it for another 10-15min the outer casing will get significantly warmer and the inner core will be quite hot, I'll borrow a infrared thermometer to test how hot it is getting...

Click to expand...

Guys,

FYi -- The outer shell of the cloud getting hotter is not an indication of the behavior of the heater. Regardless of where the heater is throttling, after time passes the heat begins to bleed through, and the outer shell will get warmer, and warmer, This is why we have invested in the cloud sleev (which by the way I will have an update for everyone watiing on them later tonight!)

There are days where my Cloud turns on (with the WeMo) at 7 am, and runs continuously, until well after 10pm. Sometime around mid afternoon, when the Cloud has been on for about 6+ hours, at least 3 of them at noon temp, it is un-bareable to touch. I use an oven mitt to move it, and set it on a table that's height is just right for me to hit the HT ontop of it.

Contact Troi, via his email, or PM here to get it if you don't have it, and request a Cloud Sleeve. I'm hoping this will solve our issue :-)

Edit* Didn't see your reply newVapor420, sorry

CuttyBuddy · Oct 15, 2012

Hey y'all. I had the pleasure of Milking one of these bad boys today at the Kush Expo here in LA. I been wanting to try this Vaporizer for a while now and she performs. Very smooth. Not harsh on the throat obviously. Fun...

jambandphan03 · Oct 15, 2012

Thanks for posting the vid Cutty, glad you enjoyed trying the Cloud at the expo!

newVaper420 · Oct 15, 2012

CuttyBuddy said:
Hey y'all. I had the pleasure of Milking one of these bad boys today at the Kush Expo here in LA. I been wanting to try this Vaporizer for a while now and she performs. Very smooth. Not harsh on the throat obviously. Fun...

Jealous you made it out there. I'm from NY too. Would have loved to try the HydraLine, I'm trying to decide what should be my X-Mas purchase, HydraLine, Devastator, or Swagger Double...

Did you get a chance to try any of the other tubes? I would have brought my own stash and been like let me try all the tubes, LOL ;-). Of course, I'd probably ask for a cot to sleep on after I finished though. LOL

Cannabinaut · Oct 15, 2012

I was there and tried most of the tubes. I would go with the swagger double. It's awesome.

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