Discontinued Pax Vaporizer by Ploom

But most people who keep their Pax on high start drawing on it early (after about 30s) and I think they must draw hard too so the temps stay low and the taste isn't ruined... that's the only thing I can think of anyway, my Pax stays on medium [/quote]

yeah, for me medium does the trick. even the low setting produces nice vapor and gives you a decent cloud in my opinion.

Aardvark said:

can you cite a source that says "new" lithium-ion batteries (same chemistry at work..) won't degrade from heat and aren't susceptible to any damage due to heat?

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Interesting topic, IMO. Here and other vapes. A quick look seems to indicate there is cause for concern, in a paper on the latest chemistries (no date, though....) which seems more interested in low temperature performance says "Additionally, battery characteristics deteriorate rapidly at temperatures above 60 C"

http://www.covalentassociates.com/Li-ion Battery Electrolytes Designed For a Wide Temperature Range.pdf

There seem to be some that are better than others, but I'd say it's a valid concern. No telling if/how it was considered in the design of course, but I don't think it can be dismissed.

suhbliem said:

Heat is bad for batteries. It speeds oxidation which is the #1 killer of batteries. People often think its heat that kills batteries - negative, heat speeds oxidation very rapidly and that's what kills batteries. if you used your battery in a o2 free room for it's life, you would get battery lifetimes toward the decade mark no matter how hot it got.

You can look up articles about lithium nano tube battery technology in the Christian Science Monitor and ASA publications. Other scientists have also done research on the issue of "heat" in the same publications.

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This makes no sense to me. How can Oxygen outside a sealed battery matter? The chemistry involved is going on in the electrolyte inside, right?

Likewise, I think we have to consider the batteries actually being used, not nano tube based lab experiments?

Drastic said:

The sleep mode sets the unit to a lower temp as to not vape your material when not in use, but it is also there to conserve battery. It takes way more power to warm up the oven to operating temp from off then from the sleep mode temp.

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This too doesn't make sense to me. While it's true that heating from warm to hot takes less power than cold to hot, it takes more power to hold the warm temperature than it would to shut down. Just like it saves money to turn the home heater off, not just down. The lower the standby temperature the greater the savings (down to room temperature).

In broad terms, heat losses are a function of temperature differences, the closer the unit to room temperature, the lower the losses.

What is saved is time. The maker is trying to make standby less intrusive. If battery savings was the only goal it would shut down like HA and other vapes do. I assume this standby mode also times out?

OF

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COBRA-1-3mm...=US_Radar_Laser_Detectors&hash=item41679ca820

just snatched up this one. i'll report back when i complete my first Pax charge from my truck

So my Pax started acting up a bit. I noticed it was hitting hot and harsher than I'm used to on medium setting where I keep it. I realized it was stuck on high and the button wouldn't budge at all. At least it was still usable lol.

I opened a ticket on Ploom's website on Sunday. I received an email back on Monday letting me know to go to support chat on Ploom's website to check on my Pax. After a short time in chat on Tuesday it was decided I would need to return my unit and they'd email me a prepaid label for the return.

Received the label/email last night. Inside the email it said to be sure I cleaned the unit completely (duh lol). I cleaned it very well last night and figured I'd let it sit overnight and check the smell this morning, see if it needed additional cleaning (it sure would have lol... still smells like herb a bit). Anyhow, low and behold as I'm putting it back together I touch the button that formerly was completely fixed in place and not moving - it moved again and I was able to cycle through the temps.

So... while support offered to replace I think I got lucky and the issue sorted itself out. Happy, happy, joy, joy! Fingers crossed.

Oh and a smoking friend stopped by last night....let him try the Pax and he was quickly blown away

Lo, did you buy from Pax or does Pax handle all issues like this or do the dealers have some responsibility to resolve issues? I remember iolite took over all service issues from dealers. Maybe Pax is doing the same?

This button issue seems like a real pain. Also something that could be remedied by Pax selecting a new plastic. I wonder if all alcohols cause this plastic to soften. Like I wonder if Everclear Ethanol would cause the issue as readily as Isopropyl?

I bought directly from Ploom.com so I'm not sure if they handle all issues or not.

I too wonder if Everclear would be less harsh than ISO. I have been careful during cleaning though and never doused the button. It was stuck and didn't even feel like a button, wouldn't budge a bit - now it seems just fine. Weird for sure, the button didn't seem soft or anything. I used ISO to clean though I'm a fan of Everclear for most of my cleaning/reclaiming needs.

Fingers crossed it continues to keep working. The 10yr warranty sounds lovely though I swear I'd have had a time getting all smells of herb out of the damn thing....one thorough cleaning and I could still smell it. I think I'd have had to clean it 3 or 4 times to get it stink free.

They don't sell Everclear where I am, but I may pick some up next time I'm out of state.

Meh! I can't get the good Everclear here in Fl either but I've been using the 151 version they sell here for a couple years now. It works very well though if I could get the good stuff - I would lol.

What states sell 190 proof (95%) everclear/ethanol? What's the difference between that and 90-99% ISO?

Lo said:

... still smells like herb a bit.

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Short of a sniffer dog let loose, vaping a couple of bowls of peppermint, basil leaf, cardamon or cumin seed, should do the trick.

(If not, and you end up in jail, I hope they'll let you bring your Pax with you.)

There are a number of states that do sell 190 proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)

The difference in ISO is water basically. The higher the proof, the more solvent power. I use 91% ISO and it works fine, the 99% is more expensive mostly used for electronics cleaning, etc. Not necessary, hell 70% would do okay too but I prefer the 91% for a bit extra cleaning power. Also the 151 version of Everclear works just fine, just has more water than the good stuff.

I buy 99% Iso by the case for other applications. I much prefer it over 91% or 70%

willieR said:

I buy 99% Iso by the case for other applications. I much prefer it over 91% or 70%

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it's important to understand the difference, however. Anything up to 95% alcohol uses water as the solvent. In order to get higher than 95%, they need to switch over to using benzene as the solvent. Do be careful. In my undergrad a chemistry prof killed himself because he took a tot of the 99% stuff, thinking it was 95%, and keeled over. Not to mention that benzene itself is mighty nasty. FYI.

He took a shot of isopropyl, you mean??? I'm not drinking iso

I've been cleaning with 70% and never noticed until I read you guys using 91%, next time I am at the store I am going to look for something stronger. I take it the higher the % of alcohol, the more cleaning power it has and the faster it evaporates?

First time poster here...

Picked up the PAX to replace my clapped out Iolite Wispr unit. Funny enough, I found out about the PAX in early August from a Google side ad.
Compared to the Wispr, I like the fact that it's battery powered and totally silent. I also think the battery lasts longer than one butane charge in the Wispr. The cinder box on the PAX is larger than the bowl on the Wispr for better or for worse. As another poster said, it would be nice if Ploom came out with another box end with a "shim" so the box could be tightly packed but with half of what you can put in there now.
I have had a couple problems. My heat level button is now stuck and through the vendor, I'm working on an exchange. Maybe with some more cleaning, it will free up. I've also had some mouthpiece / switch problems.
After reading through this thread some and experiencing both, there are two problems which can arise with the mouth piece. The first one I experienced was the mouthpiece refusing to pop up. I could tell by it's extremely slow action that it was gummed up. I took it apart, cleaned it with some 91% ISO and she worked like new.
The second problem happened when we were out on the town and the mouthpiece again wouldn't pop up but this was shortly after cleaning it and it was different than the first time. When I'd press down on the piece, it would snap and click assertively but I simply couldn't get it to pop up. After shaking it while pressing the button azillion times, it FINALLY popped up. I proceeded to re clean the entire vape but this time I paid close attention to trying to get close to the actual spring mechanism and all parts that the spring touches.
With a saturated Q-Tip, I placed a couple drops around the tube in the PAX which the mouthpiece fits in to. Then I got a small flexible plastic tooth pick and slid it around the outside of the tube. If you push down there, you can engage the spring. I went all the way around the tube a couple of times with a couple of more drops of ISO and put her back together. She's been working fine ever since.
Maybe my story will help someone else down the road.

lokey, do you have proof for this? My 99% iso states just that in the ingredients. Reason i'm curious is because Benzene is a carcinogen, and iso is used topically for first aid and the absorption i'm assuming cannot be good for you.

I agree that a shim insert or an over sized oven lid for half loads would be a stellar option.

Lo said:

I agree that a shim insert or an over sized oven lid for half loads would be a stellar option.

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Yes! That would be great!
But I have been packing SMALL bowls recently and it works pretty well if you PACK your herbs so they stay against the 'screen'. When I vape myself, I prefer packing small bowls when I just want 3-5 hits, this way the hits are ALWAYS fresh.

@Jurassic,

ahh, i see. I had to go look it up, cause it was just something mentioned during organic chem lab safety briefings, and that was a decade ago. It seems we were using ethanol as the solvent in lab, not isopropyl. From the wiki page on ethanol:

"Absolute alcohol

Absolute or anhydrous alcohol refers to ethanol with a low water content. There are various grades with maximum water contents ranging from 1% to ppm levels. Absolute alcohol is not intended for human consumption. If azeotropic distillation is used to remove water, it will contain trace amounts of the material separation agent (e.g. benzene)."


Looking at the page on ISO, there is mention of % up to 99, but they dont talk about benzenes, in fact the quote:

" Unlike ethanol or methanol, isopropyl alcohol can be separated from aqueous solutions by adding a salt such as sodium chloride, sodium sulfate, or any of several other inorganic salts, since the alcohol is much less soluble in saline solutions than in salt-free water. The process is colloquially called salting out, and causes concentrated isopropyl alcohol to separate into a distinct layer."

leads me to suggest that it may be possible to pull it out at much higher concentrations without needing another solvent. So there ya go ;]

OK so we're all safe again.

;D the more you know

Yah lol no benzene in iso!

Think I figured out why the heater doesn't engage sometimes.

So after 2 weeks of heavy use my unit finally got dirty enough to cause the mouthpiece sticking and heater from staying on. The mouthpiece got a little sticky after the first week, the mouthpiece would just move slowly(kind of cool made it seem like it was meant to do that) but today cold it was stuck. Took it apart to try to see why the heater wasn't staying on. It looks like the heater is activated when the magnet on the mouthpiece is not close to it's sensor(right next to the temp button) and the clip is making contact with the mouthpiece shaft that makes contact with the inner air-path. The clip does not make contact with the air-path when mouthpiece is out. When the inside of the mouthpiece (and if not regularly cleaned, the outside of the air-path) gets too dirty it will prevent the circuit from completing. When I press against the clip(with unit open) or press on the mouthpiece from the side, the heater will engage.

now time clean you up PAX!

OF said:

This too doesn't make sense to me. While it's true that heating from warm to hot takes less power than cold to hot, it takes more power to hold the warm temperature than it would to shut down. Just like it saves money to turn the home heater off, not just down. The lower the standby temperature the greater the savings (down to room temperature).

In broad terms, heat losses are a function of temperature differences, the closer the unit to room temperature, the lower the losses.

What is saved is time. The maker is trying to make standby less intrusive. If battery savings was the only goal it would shut down like HA and other vapes do. I assume this standby mode also times out?

OF

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Yah I believe your right, just to get you hits quicker after you pick it back up again. I haven't used the feature once. I just take 5-6 good hits then lift the mouthpiece up to clear the clip but still stay on the air-path and take a few long drags to cool down the load. Works very well and I can get 4 good sessions with a .4 throughout the day. Yellow on the way to work, yellow on first break, orange and a stir for lunch, orange then a stir and to red on the ride home in traffic. Was hitting it with highway patrol right next to me hahah This thing is so fuckin perfect!!!!!

So looks like Pocobor is the design firm behind Ploom, or at least the board on our Pax.

http://www.pocobor.com/work.html

Pocobor lists solar city on that site too.
now if the Pax had a solar exterior you could charge it by leaving it in the sun