Davinci by Karma
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OF
Well-Known Member
Gentle Friends,
My new unit got here in near record time, after the traditional tear down for the usual nosy poking around it's back together for the recommended charging. Not before an photo of it undressed for your pleasure of course (rare for me, FWIW):
Those paying attention will note several changes in this unit, S/N OA1005XXX. First off, the dreaded 'food grade silicone tube' over the wires is gone. FWIW I suspect that the tube is for mechanical protection, no longer needed as the wires are silicone rubber insulted and rated at 150C (or so it says). Without opening up the furnace, I'll assume this is sufficient as there's sure to be some temperature drop as well as margins in the working temperature number (which has to cover flex and a bunch of other issues). I did not try hitting it with my 700F soldering iron but I bet is fine with that as similar wire I've used in the past is. Next time I'm inside I hope to remember to try that.
Next folks will notice a battery upgrade? There are now two 800mAh batteries (actually 2 cells making one battery for those taking notes....), the second is under the first. I peeled back the tape to show the label and expose the protection circuit board that's been added (no longer included in the battery?). They are in series, the new supply is 7.4 Volts nominal. Notice that they are now unjacketed cells like a cell phone might use to get maximum power density. I suspect longer battery life (by like 45%) is the result.
The addition of the protection board is obviously a kluge of sorts, but you can't see on the tape peeled back but it has a 3M logo on it.....these guys are importing 'the good stuff' as needed?
Otherwise, I find the build quality inside to be quite good. It also has another feature, a handy room thermometer. It's warmer here than I thought, but I confirmed it's 84F reading with my pyrometer (which I had handy....
Reading the manual, it seems they're trying to avoid all drug links, this is for aroma therapy only. Right? It even lists Ginsing. It's got lots of pictures and has obviously been written by a Brit (when will they ever learn to spell English properly?).
Stu was (once again) spot on, it smells like five pairs of new tennis shoes inside the bag it came in. Worse inside the box. Even the spare parts inside the little cardboard box (complete with nice gold stamping no less) smell of rubber. Some serious 'airing out' is in order. It's as bad as gear some (tobacco) smoker has owned.
Anyway, it's on charge, I'm off to other adventures while it does, then to seek the vapors....where ever I find them. Thus far, mighty impressive. I wonder if the demands for upgrades happen before I get back to it?
OF
My new unit got here in near record time, after the traditional tear down for the usual nosy poking around it's back together for the recommended charging. Not before an photo of it undressed for your pleasure of course (rare for me, FWIW):
Those paying attention will note several changes in this unit, S/N OA1005XXX. First off, the dreaded 'food grade silicone tube' over the wires is gone. FWIW I suspect that the tube is for mechanical protection, no longer needed as the wires are silicone rubber insulted and rated at 150C (or so it says). Without opening up the furnace, I'll assume this is sufficient as there's sure to be some temperature drop as well as margins in the working temperature number (which has to cover flex and a bunch of other issues). I did not try hitting it with my 700F soldering iron but I bet is fine with that as similar wire I've used in the past is. Next time I'm inside I hope to remember to try that.
Next folks will notice a battery upgrade? There are now two 800mAh batteries (actually 2 cells making one battery for those taking notes....), the second is under the first. I peeled back the tape to show the label and expose the protection circuit board that's been added (no longer included in the battery?). They are in series, the new supply is 7.4 Volts nominal. Notice that they are now unjacketed cells like a cell phone might use to get maximum power density. I suspect longer battery life (by like 45%) is the result.
The addition of the protection board is obviously a kluge of sorts, but you can't see on the tape peeled back but it has a 3M logo on it.....these guys are importing 'the good stuff' as needed?
Otherwise, I find the build quality inside to be quite good. It also has another feature, a handy room thermometer. It's warmer here than I thought, but I confirmed it's 84F reading with my pyrometer (which I had handy....
Reading the manual, it seems they're trying to avoid all drug links, this is for aroma therapy only. Right? It even lists Ginsing. It's got lots of pictures and has obviously been written by a Brit (when will they ever learn to spell English properly?).
Stu was (once again) spot on, it smells like five pairs of new tennis shoes inside the bag it came in. Worse inside the box. Even the spare parts inside the little cardboard box (complete with nice gold stamping no less) smell of rubber. Some serious 'airing out' is in order. It's as bad as gear some (tobacco) smoker has owned.
Anyway, it's on charge, I'm off to other adventures while it does, then to seek the vapors....where ever I find them. Thus far, mighty impressive. I wonder if the demands for upgrades happen before I get back to it?
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
Now I am jealousyou have upgrades. Awaiting the report. Hmmmmmmmm wonder if it is marketed with ginseng maybe I can ginseng my way through the airport
Hey, works for me. Wear saffron colored robes, wave incense everywhere, hand out flowers, tell everyone 'God is Love', they'll wave you right through...... Nobody, not even TSA on a bad day, wants to mess with them guys.
Or maybe ask the guy if he has enough Life Insurance as you hand him your card and whip open the old attache case? We may be going at this all wrong?
Hey, the little chart lists Ginger, Cloves, Sage, Tobacco and the rest of the usual. There's a break in the middle of the chart, they could move the stuff on the right over and have plenty of room for 'Buds' or 'Good Herb' there? Pocololo comes to mind.
OF
I got the same (upgraded?) model this morning. This thing just stinks, literally. Some of the smell on the outside of the DV comes from the box, but most of it from the inside. I ran 8 X 410 degree burn in test (unit is brand new, empty chamber), and yes, it does smell badly and release fumes. I then cleaned the entire chamber, straw, mesh, and everything else from chamber to mouthpiece (isopropyl alcohol), some improvement. I re-ran the burn in about another 10 + times, but still some fuming/bad smell remains. I took a "hit" to see if there is a plastic taste to it and I almost threw up. Major health concern. Customer service offered replacement, but if the 0A1005XXX is the latest revision, what would they have to offer as an replacement? Extremely, extremely disappointing, should have gotten "the other one"
I would highly recommend to anyone buying this thing (BEFORE you fill it with herbs), to do the same tests with an empty chamber, so you get and idea what you are actually inhaling. Of course if you buy it and fill it up with herbs right away, you might not even notice. I am speechless, this vap shouldn't perform they way it does, not should the OEM sell defective units anymore...since it seems they are aware of this issue. I will keep burning it in for another 1-2 days and keep the board up to date.
Stay Healthy.
I would highly recommend to anyone buying this thing (BEFORE you fill it with herbs), to do the same tests with an empty chamber, so you get and idea what you are actually inhaling. Of course if you buy it and fill it up with herbs right away, you might not even notice. I am speechless, this vap shouldn't perform they way it does, not should the OEM sell defective units anymore...since it seems they are aware of this issue. I will keep burning it in for another 1-2 days and keep the board up to date.
Stay Healthy.
I found the rubbery smell very pungent and offensive at first. I had postulated that the smell was being imparted by the packing material - namely the foam moulding in the box. This seems to have been the case as my unit's odor began to fade after a day or so and is now not noticable (by me). Meanwhile the foam insert still stinks to high heaven.
cjacko, how did you determine that "most" of the smell was coming from the inside? I suggest you give it a light wipe down with an iso-dampened cloth and let it air out for a couple of days and then report back.
Most of the bad smell came from the inside = smelled/inhaled the fumes. I did clean the inside thoroughly with alcohol.I found the rubbery smell very pungent and offensive at first. I had postulated that the smell was being imparted by the packing material - namely the foam moulding in the box. This seems to have been the case as my unit's odor began to fade after a day or so and is now not noticable (by me). Meanwhile the foam insert still stinks to high heaven.
cjacko, how did you determine that "most" of the smell was coming from the inside? I suggest you give it a light wipe down with an iso-dampened cloth and let it air out for a couple of days and then report back.
Will report back in two days after more burn ins.
The only reason I asked is that I know I couldn't tell if the smell was coming from the inside or outside because it was so damn pungent. It'd be like covering an empty beer can with dog shit and trying to determine if there was shit inside the can that was also stinking. No way to tell without getting shit all over your hands, y'know? Even if you put a straw into the chamber, the smell from the body of the unit is so pervasive so as to overpower your senses trying to determine the source of the stink.
Anyway, that's how I looked at it and thankfully all the offensive odor has since gone bye bye.
how long did it take for the fumes/smell/odor to be gone? Thanks.The only reason I asked is that I know I couldn't tell if the smell was coming from the inside or outside because it was so damn pungent. It'd be like covering an empty beer can with dog shit and trying to determine if there was shit inside the can that was also stinking. No way to tell without getting shit all over your hands, y'know? Even if you put a straw into the chamber, the smell from the body of the unit is so pervasive so as to overpower your senses trying to determine the source of the stink.
Anyway, that's how I looked at it and thankfully all the offensive odor has since gone bye bye.
kushcabbage
vapor nerd
in my case, it never did..
About a week (stored outside the box, of course). If you keep it in the box it came in, it'll proably never go away.
I can still smell a faint hint of rubber when I put my nose up to it, but nothing like the pungent tennis shoe smell that it had in the beginning.
same thing happened to me man, i refuse to use it till they get their act straight... damn shame the company is still selling units that offgas even after their "fix". unbelievable. I'm on Karma #3 now lol. I give up and am tired of this toy.
no it is the fumes that come out of the chamber from the top and smells like plastic when you turn it up to 410F brand new.
I think you're confusing 2 different things.... The toxic fumes of death that come from an empty, unused device and the residual goodies that come out of the vents during normal use.
I think you're confusing 2 different things.... The toxic fumes of death that come from an empty, unused device and the residual goodies that come out of the vents during normal use.
i should clear that up, gatcony had asked if the offgassing was the vapors coming from the side, I wanted to explain to him that the offgassing are the fumes coming form the the top of the chamber during initial burn in. obviously too late for gatcony to do this test since it sounds like he is already vaping.
OF
Well-Known Member
Good morning friends, it's a late start for me as I was up very late last night researching my new DaVinci. Lucky for me, there's more testing needed..... Who said science can't be fun too?
First off, after carefully looking at my inside photos, I'm thinking there's actually a third cell in the battery, and it's an 11.1 Volt battery. Note the fourth pad on the protection circuit board "B+" separate from the 7.4 Volt pad? I couldn't get the power available and charger current to make sense otherwise. The charger is 13.6 VDC at 2500mA, why the 'funny' voltage when 12 Volt units are so common? Then I noted the power plug is similar to the 'standard' one you find on some car cords, but none of my collection fits. I think it needs a bit more than 12 Volts to fully charge the pack. Now I have a second reason to go back into it. The additional battery capacity makes the power numbers seem more realistic. Got to think some more on that.
Now to the big issue to many, I believe it can be made to outgas the normal stuff from the Silicone rubber gasket at the top of the bowl. I saw the vapor first at 350 degrees. After a run it seemed to disappear for the most part, I could get it back if I was careful, but it had clearly tapered off. After more heat (higher temps and longer times) I couldn't. The same basic pattern happened at each step. Raising the temperature would increase the vapor for a while but make vapor at lower temperatures harder if not impossible to find. This continued right up (in steps) to maximum temperature, 430F. At the end it was hard to find at 410, basically impossible at 400. It was much reduced at 430 from the start (although it's near impossible to actually quantify such stuff accurately). The important part (to me) is it does taper off in a reasonable time meaning it's not something breaking down, but the normal curing of the rubber you'd expect.
Yes, it outgasses. You can smell it, that's how smell works. Depending on the type, such rubbers generate a percent to a few percent of such potential vapor by weight during curing as I understand it. This is why RTV stinks as it sets. This normally diminishes quickly over time, hastened by heat in many 'curing processes'. We're in an interesting position to observe this due to the construction. If left undisturbed heat rises up though the empty chamber to the rim of the gasket to bake the surface. Did anyone else notice you can only do this standing up? Laying it over disturbs this pattern. It's a very sensitive way to make the observation, the stuff boiling out is 'light' (meaning small relatively molecules) so there's not only 'more per pound' but it forms an aerosol dense enough to see in 'good light' easily. While it looks at times like there's a lot there, I was unable to condense anything out I could detect on cold polished stainless steel (also a very sensitive way to observe such stuff).
Along the way I also managed to overheat the LCD display so it got blotches on the edge closest the heater, nothing tragic, it recovered, but running it flat out for a long time got it too hot (something SC and I found happening with the prototype "8" we tested for THC a while back).
So figuring I had observed all I could think of at that point, I pressed on. My 'take' at this point being that nothing out of the ordinary was happening in practice, we were just able to perform this experiment in this configuration with success. Just the same as a new whip or the mouthpiece on an Omicron has 'taste' that rapidly goes away as soon as the surface gets coated with 'wand hash' (condensate). So I loaded up one of the 'oil cans'. I put a bit of the Volcano concentrate pad in the bottom (something I do with HA) and 50mg of mid grade (50%) bubble and christened the little guy. The taste was exactly as I expected, it tasted of 'raw silicone tube' for a few hits, then I could no longer taste it. By pulling the can out I was able to shift back to empty (except for the deposits in the vapor path) and couldn't detect the rubber anymore in the 'empty draw'.
Later last night, I did a load (125mg) of Cannatonic in two steps. The hits were definitely thicker (and easier to draw) than I'm used to with Iolite (which I like as a vape anyway). To answer the question 'can you shut down and come back?' is yes you can, at least I did. You can also leave it sit idle for a bit without penalty. I shut it down half way through and after a couple hours I came back and finished the job. It was up and running (green light) in less than two minutes, back in 'full production' within a third. Very impressive for a first test with bud.
In the process most of the 'tennis shoe' smell is now gone, it smells like an Iolite warming up now (for those who know that). Slight, but smells more like herb than rubber.
The AVB was uniformly done as you'd expect. First rate job there.
More playing is in order, and I intend to do so when I take care of some of life's more mundane tasks. For now I like this guy. My personal perspective is there's no real threat here, we're just able to see vapor under special conditions we never have normally. Others will, of course, disagree. It's no different I think than the Silicone rubber tube we use for whips or in other places. Once the surface is sealed up, what little that would have showed up on the surface migrates back into the material as it's known to do. While exposures to these vapors at these levels is not generally considered hazardous, let alone toxic, it basically ends when the surface is sealed (what would be passivaton if were an oxide). Since I'm not afraid of new whips (including the one inside this guy's mouthpiece) I'm not afraid of using mine. I know I'll be called all sorts of stupid for this, but there it is.
Gotta run now, more later when I have something at least partially intelligent to offer.
Thanks for listening.
OF
First off, after carefully looking at my inside photos, I'm thinking there's actually a third cell in the battery, and it's an 11.1 Volt battery. Note the fourth pad on the protection circuit board "B+" separate from the 7.4 Volt pad? I couldn't get the power available and charger current to make sense otherwise. The charger is 13.6 VDC at 2500mA, why the 'funny' voltage when 12 Volt units are so common? Then I noted the power plug is similar to the 'standard' one you find on some car cords, but none of my collection fits. I think it needs a bit more than 12 Volts to fully charge the pack. Now I have a second reason to go back into it. The additional battery capacity makes the power numbers seem more realistic. Got to think some more on that.
Now to the big issue to many, I believe it can be made to outgas the normal stuff from the Silicone rubber gasket at the top of the bowl. I saw the vapor first at 350 degrees. After a run it seemed to disappear for the most part, I could get it back if I was careful, but it had clearly tapered off. After more heat (higher temps and longer times) I couldn't. The same basic pattern happened at each step. Raising the temperature would increase the vapor for a while but make vapor at lower temperatures harder if not impossible to find. This continued right up (in steps) to maximum temperature, 430F. At the end it was hard to find at 410, basically impossible at 400. It was much reduced at 430 from the start (although it's near impossible to actually quantify such stuff accurately). The important part (to me) is it does taper off in a reasonable time meaning it's not something breaking down, but the normal curing of the rubber you'd expect.
Yes, it outgasses. You can smell it, that's how smell works. Depending on the type, such rubbers generate a percent to a few percent of such potential vapor by weight during curing as I understand it. This is why RTV stinks as it sets. This normally diminishes quickly over time, hastened by heat in many 'curing processes'. We're in an interesting position to observe this due to the construction. If left undisturbed heat rises up though the empty chamber to the rim of the gasket to bake the surface. Did anyone else notice you can only do this standing up? Laying it over disturbs this pattern. It's a very sensitive way to make the observation, the stuff boiling out is 'light' (meaning small relatively molecules) so there's not only 'more per pound' but it forms an aerosol dense enough to see in 'good light' easily. While it looks at times like there's a lot there, I was unable to condense anything out I could detect on cold polished stainless steel (also a very sensitive way to observe such stuff).
Along the way I also managed to overheat the LCD display so it got blotches on the edge closest the heater, nothing tragic, it recovered, but running it flat out for a long time got it too hot (something SC and I found happening with the prototype "8" we tested for THC a while back).
So figuring I had observed all I could think of at that point, I pressed on. My 'take' at this point being that nothing out of the ordinary was happening in practice, we were just able to perform this experiment in this configuration with success. Just the same as a new whip or the mouthpiece on an Omicron has 'taste' that rapidly goes away as soon as the surface gets coated with 'wand hash' (condensate). So I loaded up one of the 'oil cans'. I put a bit of the Volcano concentrate pad in the bottom (something I do with HA) and 50mg of mid grade (50%) bubble and christened the little guy. The taste was exactly as I expected, it tasted of 'raw silicone tube' for a few hits, then I could no longer taste it. By pulling the can out I was able to shift back to empty (except for the deposits in the vapor path) and couldn't detect the rubber anymore in the 'empty draw'.
Later last night, I did a load (125mg) of Cannatonic in two steps. The hits were definitely thicker (and easier to draw) than I'm used to with Iolite (which I like as a vape anyway). To answer the question 'can you shut down and come back?' is yes you can, at least I did. You can also leave it sit idle for a bit without penalty. I shut it down half way through and after a couple hours I came back and finished the job. It was up and running (green light) in less than two minutes, back in 'full production' within a third. Very impressive for a first test with bud.
In the process most of the 'tennis shoe' smell is now gone, it smells like an Iolite warming up now (for those who know that). Slight, but smells more like herb than rubber.
The AVB was uniformly done as you'd expect. First rate job there.
More playing is in order, and I intend to do so when I take care of some of life's more mundane tasks. For now I like this guy. My personal perspective is there's no real threat here, we're just able to see vapor under special conditions we never have normally. Others will, of course, disagree. It's no different I think than the Silicone rubber tube we use for whips or in other places. Once the surface is sealed up, what little that would have showed up on the surface migrates back into the material as it's known to do. While exposures to these vapors at these levels is not generally considered hazardous, let alone toxic, it basically ends when the surface is sealed (what would be passivaton if were an oxide). Since I'm not afraid of new whips (including the one inside this guy's mouthpiece) I'm not afraid of using mine. I know I'll be called all sorts of stupid for this, but there it is.
Gotta run now, more later when I have something at least partially intelligent to offer.
Thanks for listening.
OF
cannybagoftudor
Member
OF
Thank you for your forthright opinion. I must admit that I had retired my DV after some mysterious vapour concerns - and began using my MFLB instead. Fortunately I fell back in love with the MFLB all over again)
But... I always loved the convection aspect and lovely airy draw on the DV and was never sure that there was anything to worry about - I am very happy to go back - bong - tweet - lovely - cheers
Thank you for your forthright opinion. I must admit that I had retired my DV after some mysterious vapour concerns - and began using my MFLB instead. Fortunately I fell back in love with the MFLB all over again
)But... I always loved the convection aspect and lovely airy draw on the DV and was never sure that there was anything to worry about - I am very happy to go back - bong - tweet - lovely - cheers
Pharoh
Well-Known Member
I've used mine approx 15-20 times... I heated it up the other day 375 defgrees...I saw some vape coming out of the vent...I clean my screens regularly...I've noticed it seems to be hard to draw a hit. Seems like I have to put a strong pull on it and draw for 10-15 seconds in order to get vape...anybody else notice this?
vorrange
Vapor.wise
I must say that i tried the "empty DV vapor test", and i got visible greyish vapor at 430F, and when i lowered the temp to 390, it was still blowing smoke.
But my DV needs a cleaning, so it can be because of that also. The taste is good though, so i dunno if i am concerned or indifferent.
But my DV needs a cleaning, so it can be because of that also. The taste is good though, so i dunno if i am concerned or indifferent.
Dreamerr
Always in a state of confusion and silliness♀
OF can you do a half session 5minutes, close it off, let it cool and dump the bud and see if it cooked up? The reason why I say you have to do a full session is because it takes so long to cool down I feel it keeps cooking for a while. Yes you can crank it up and finish the half session which I now believe to be less then a quarter of a session from staying hot. You might want to do this test twice, once with dumping the bud right away and the second with dumping at the end to see if there is any difference in color.
Thanks for that OF, very reassuring to see someone who's more educated than myself on this stuff back the DV.
I kind of figured as well that if the vapor diminished after a few burn off runs it wasn't anything to worry about, because clearly if something was being broken down inside the vape it wouldn't just magically start getting less and less melted/burnt/whatever the more times I turn the vape on. I assumed it was production chemicals of some sort left on the unit but the rubber curing actually makes much more sense than that.
Cheers for taking the time to do all of that. Back to enjoying my new vape!
I kind of figured as well that if the vapor diminished after a few burn off runs it wasn't anything to worry about, because clearly if something was being broken down inside the vape it wouldn't just magically start getting less and less melted/burnt/whatever the more times I turn the vape on. I assumed it was production chemicals of some sort left on the unit but the rubber curing actually makes much more sense than that.
Cheers for taking the time to do all of that. Back to enjoying my new vape!
kushcabbage
vapor nerd
An update, apparently my unit was deemed "defective" and a replacement is being shipped to me, can not be refunded as past 30 days, I don't blame anyone. Of course I used this vape extensively, loved the hell out of it.. used it like crazy 4th of july 
so before loading, will do some epic OF like tests, or possibly forget about it an put it in the classifieds.. Here's is an encouraging email "Yes it did. I am testing your replacement right now, so there is no gas/smoke taste. This should go out tomorrow. " We shall see.. anyway a lot fast responds all around and good folks ready and willing to support a more than not, health conscious addicted forum, almost brings tears to my eyes. 
so before loading, will do some epic OF like tests, or possibly forget about it an put it in the classifieds.. Here's is an encouraging email "Yes it did. I am testing your replacement right now, so there is no gas/smoke taste. This should go out tomorrow. " We shall see.. anyway a lot fast responds all around and good folks ready and willing to support a more than not, health conscious addicted forum, almost brings tears to my eyes.
OF
Well-Known Member
I actually did part of this. I carefully dumped the load, more like picking it apart, half way through looking to see how uniformly it was vaping the load (it was doing a very good job, unlike some). It cools to 'under vaping temperature' very quickly once the air flow stops generally, and the core temperature displayed drops fast when shut off. It's not at all like Iolite in that respect.
As I said before, idling it seemed to cause no loss of vapor, like you'd have with a PD or HA.
Being color blind, I'll politely decline your last request and leave it for someone else.
OF