The Extreme-Q Vaporizer

Tweak said:

Good point. I'd contemplated removing the bottom plastic air vent to help with the drag but didn't wanna void my warranty. But not even sure than would help as the drag seams to be coming from the vent next to the fan.

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Without heating/loading the Cyclone, try just putting your lips to the top of the Cyclone like it was a mouthpiece and taking a draw. There is virtually no resistance. Now attach the whip and draw; you'll feel the drag. It's due to the constriction of the airflow through the narrower tubing. The longer the whip, the more the drag. The 90 elbow also contributes some. (And of course an elbow pack adds quite a bit, too.)

Using 3/8" silicone helps a bit, as does shortening the whip (but that adds heat). By comparison, drawing from my Cloud is like pulling from the Cyclone directly like above: No drag.

Tweak said:

JJd2sc - Also make sure that your screens are completely clean. I've noticed a huge difference lately with just a semi dirty/clogged screen vs 100% clean one.

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I assume you mean the elbow screen, because the cyclone bowl screen doesn't really get clogged in my experience. I have 8 elbow screens and I swap them every two bowls, because as you say, when the elbow screen clogs is makes a huge difference in both drag and performance. The elbow screen is my least favourite thing about the Extreme.

Here's some inverse hits for you guys!!!! some nice fresh budder on some cotton!!!!! But i have to be honest i use and prefer the V-tower.

pakalolo said:

I assume you mean the elbow screen

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Yeah the elbow screen. I'm actually using two cyclone screens because I had modded my cyclone bowl so there is no glass in the middle. I can really feel a difference in drag now as I can lift the entire contents of the bowl with just puffs. Single best mod I've done.

In defense of the elbow screen, it does a great job of keeping most of the debris from entering the whip. I often wonder if that's where the VXL team came up with the idea of a Easy Load Bowl (ELB) and I wonder if the ELB would fit into the EQ elbow.

shredhead: Nice setup, I wish I has that male-male adapter, must be so much better than tuff bowl's silicone. Stir every hit - could be easier if you loaded the cyclone bowl (and move the screen to the other side before to make it possible), it makes every hit give you the best it can.

i stir every 2 hits with herb and i get nice full hits both times. the cyclone bowl is just not as efficient as the elbow screen in my eyes. i can puff on just one 3/4 full elbow bowl and be medicated as much as i need to be. most of the time ill find half finished bowls in my elbow screens cuz i get too medicated!. that video was my v-tower at full temp hitting budder on cotton. thats why it barley lasted 2 hits.

Tweak said:

. . . and I wonder if the ELB would fit into the EQ elbow.

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Only about half way. What does work though is to put the bottom of the ELB into the glass elbow about 1/3 and then put it into the Cyclone. The top of the ELB will fit snug to the glass ridge where the screen otherwise sits. Have no idea how this would perform.

That inverse method shown by shreadhead is interesting, worth looking at more closely.

EDIT: I think it may be possible to use the ELB with the same method as shreadhead showed: Male/male into GonG joint, top of Cyclone inverted onto male, ELB top down into Cyclone, connect Q to Cyclone. This way the Q's heater is in contact with the ELB, but the ELB length doesn't permit just sitting the Q all the way into the Cyclone as usual, you have to hold it steady. But with the heat source that close, gonna get some strong vapor.

oldiebutgoodie said:

@JJd2sc,
@AdmiralAlpacha,

Running Fan 3 with the whip is in effect like taking a passive draw. With a sufficient load (~.15g) in the Cyclone you should get plenty of vapor, just like into the bag. I've had bronchial issues in the past which made the drag from the whip a problem for me, so with the whip I would toggle Fan 2 to push the vapor for me instead, or I used the bag. (Consequently I stopped using a whip at all, and wanting a better experience than the bag, I switched to a zero drag vaporizer.)

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I've never used my fan with my whip, ill give it a shot after work!

AdmiralAlpacha said:

I've never used my fan with my whip, ill give it a shot after work!

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A couple tips: After turning on the fan with the remote, watch the mouthpiece for the vapor to exit before putting in your mouth; otherwise you'll get all the air that was in the whip that is now being pushed out ahead of the incoming vapor. After you've inhaled, toggle the fan off and cap the mouthpiece with your finger; that will leave vapor remaining in the whip and when you turn the fan back on for your next hit, vapor will exit almost immediately (i.e., there won't be air in the whip needing to be cleared again).

You can also just let the fan keep running, capping the mouthpiece between hits. But if you do this, you want to hit fairly quickly because you don't want back-pressure building up from the whip to the fan, that will cause the fan motor to over-work and shorten its life.

Wow that is great, I feel silly for never trying that.

I never could figure out all the love the whip gets, but my whip is definitely going to be seeing more action now. Thanks for the tip man!

Also leaving the fan on and taking quick hits is proving to get me more vaked than usual so thanks for that too!

AdmiralAlpacha said:

Wow that is great, I feel silly for never trying that.

I never could figure out all the love the whip gets, but my whip is definitely going to be seeing more action now. Thanks for the tip man!

Also leaving the fan on and taking quick hits is proving to get me more vaked than usual so thanks for that too!

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Happy to oblige. Glad it worked out for you.

Also, the whip will deliver a bit more potency than the bag because vapor condenses in the bag and actives are held on the bag's surface. You see that accumulate in the bag over multiple uses. There is also condensation in the whip, but the surface area is much smaller and contact time only momentary so the loss is much less, and besides, after build-up it can be harvested whereas that's not possible with the bag.

Another method you might want to consider is "inverse" hitting as discussed in the last couple pages, check the vid posted by shreadhead for an example. With this you can eliminate the whip altogether. Given your lungs challenge, you would want a glass piece designed for very little drag with a very small water chamber and maybe also allows for ice (or the piece can be kept on ice; that's what I used to do with my Headford). That way you could not only get effortless pulling but also moisturization and cooling.

This of course is also frequently done with the Q sitting upright as usual attached with a short piece of tubing, but the fan is not powerful enough to push vapor thru a water chamber so you would have the drag problem again that you want to avoid. The only way I know of to get the same whip/drag-free result as inverse but with the Q upright is with a water piece with a female joint that can sit on top of the Q, and the only piece I know of designed that way is the HydraTube used with the Cloud.

Just food for thought. Enjoy!

EDIT: An afterthought . . . fwiw, there is a vape that can be attached upright to a glass piece as commonly done, but unlike the Q it is powerful enough to push the vapor through the water chamber. It's the HerbalAire, and the reason is because it uses a pump rather than a fan. I've never actually done this myself, but I did research it extensively because of my own bronchial issues. I would have bought an HA but then I discovered the Cloud, which for me is has been a much better alternative.

JCat said:

When I had it opened, I thought I'd remove the heater cover to give it a good cleaning too, and saw that there is actually a piece of plastic supporting the ceramic heater rod (goes slightly into the hollow heating rod to support it) and it's slightly melted ... this little piece of plastic supporting the ceramic heating rod is in the airpath and this concerns me ...

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Is there any news on this? Did you end up contacting Arizer?
It sounds very concerning.

peterchen said:

Is there any news on this? Did you end up contacting Arizer?
It sounds very concerning.

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Is someone from Arizer reading this forum? It should be clarified what type of plastic that black piece going into the heater is made of and perhaps even more important what other materials (e.g., additives) are contained in it. Also I would be interested in the type of plastic that isolates the cables also going into the heater.
Independent of the type of plastic, since it did melt in JCat's EQ it means that its melting point is obviously reached during use.
Given all this I dont feel safe using my EQ anymore and very troubled that I might have regularly inhaled some potentially poisonous plastic crap.

peterchen said:

Is someone from Arizer reading this forum? It should be clarified what type of plastic that black piece going into the heater is made of and perhaps even more important what other materials (e.g., additives) are contained in it. Also I would be interested in the type of plastic that isolates the cables also going into the heater.
Independent of the type of plastic, since it did melt in JCat's EQ it means that its melting point is obviously reached during use.
Given all this I dont feel safe using my EQ anymore and very troubled that I might have regularly inhaled some potentially poisonous plastic crap.

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ok, so i opened my EQ and the piece of plastic touching the heater is melted.

you can also see melted left-overs of the plastic still on the heater


the whole point of that plastic seems to be to just hold up the heater...a problem that could obviously be solved differently. It's beyond my understanding how a company makes the decision to use plastic that will melt at temperatures obviously reached by the heater. I literally feel sick now and will have to inform myself about legal steps, because Arizer apparently takes the risk of customers inhaling plastic.

Took my EQ apart and you're right, that piece is a bit molten at the end. I think it only melts and the most extreme situations, but it melts and it's a concern. After more than year of heavy use, even using screen mod, that transfers the heat also to the bottom parts of the ceramic. With all this, it was only melted so little I think it released little to no fumes overall. It is way less molten than yours on the photo. Anyway, I took it out, it doesn't have to be there and is more of a concern, than help. The heater is extremely stable and sturdy without it anyway.

I am curious how you managed to melt is this much. Have you let it to be upside down while hot for prolonged times? Or very very VERY long time of high temp operation? I let my EQ preheat at 260 sometimes for a very long time - when I forget about it. Still haven't molten my plastic piece that much.

Seek said:

With all this, it was only melted so little I think it released little to no fumes overall.

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Seriously? When it comes to inhaling plastic it's not a question of quantity to me.
Melted plastic in the airpath is simply an outrage. Would it be a chinese POS, I would expect it, but in this case...
You got to be quite the EQ fan to just remove a melted piece of plastic from the airpath and go on using this device...?

I am curious how you managed to melt is this much. Have you let it to be upside down while hot for prolonged times? Or very very VERY long time of high temp operation? I let my EQ preheat at 260 sometimes for a very long time - when I forget about it. Still haven't molten my plastic piece that much.

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The most I ever heated it up to was 220 deg and I didnt do any of the other things you mention. You said you had yours in heavy use for a year, so I also used mine a lot less.

peterchen said:

Seriously? When it comes to inhaling plastic it's not a question of quantity to me. Melted plastic in the airpath is simply an outrage.

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Quantity means a lot, more plastic fumes = worse, less = better. Anything toxic has also the limit where it's low enough to not be able to cause damage.
But I also share your rage that it is SERIOUSLY WRONG of Arizer to design the EQ like this with plastic supportig the heater in first place. This discovery stung me in heart. Arizer designed a vape that has glass airpath and everything there seems pure and safe and then BAM, piece of plastic support ruins it. I've took it apart many times before, I thought that piece was metal. It looks molten only if I look very closely and only at the very end, so I've not discovered it until now.

peterchen said:

Would it be a chinese POS, I would expect it, but in this case...

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Yes, both are real EQ's from Canada. And every owner of one should be informed of this!

peterchen said:

You got to be quite the EQ fan to just remove a melted piece of plastic from the airpath and go on using this device...?

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It a great vape in the first place, and only desktop I own right now. The plastic hasn't melted anywhere on the ceramic like on yours, so when I removed it, the issue is gone (for MY EQ only). I don't see any concern now using it. There is no other plastic near heat, so now it's safe for me. Don't see any other possibilites how it could fume anything now when the plastic support is out. There are only safe material parts left there.

My EQ is imo safe now and yours could be too if you cleaned all the plastic remains.
But there are THOUSANDS of sold EQs and their owners don't know about this.

Anyway, this is a REAL SERIOUS AIRPATH SAFETY ISSUE, that affects ALL EQs, mabe Es too. Arizer representative should come here and say something about this.

Seek said:

. . . Arizer representative should come here and say something about this . . .

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I would be very surprised if Arizer is monitoring this thread.

@peterchen, with thousands of units in use for years, this issue must have come up before. For sure you have a very valid concern, but I would keep my powder dry for the moment. Send an email to service@arizer.com. Kevin & Steve have been very responsive in the past, so I would expect that you will receive a prompt response. Please let us know the outcome.

If you inhaled melted plastic you would know it. You would have smelled it too. Take that piece of plastic and heat it up, you'll see what I mean.

pakalolo: It seems like it fumes only rarely and only the tiniest ammounts that you can't smell. When anything melts, it also releases fumes. Doesn't need to get boiling. I said already that I think there are only little to no fumes released. Maybe we are dosing ourselves with tiniest unsmellable bits of plastic fumes every use and we don't know it.

If we smelled plastic or saw it it would be discovered way earlier, but this one was so hidden we didn't even know there was plastic melting in the ceramic when in use. Melting so slowly it don't make noticeable smell and at place you can't see it melting.

My EQ is my daily driver that I'm using right at the very moment... I see this and almost crap my pants.
Guess its time to take apart mine, this is truly a concern.

Seek said:

pakalolo: It seems like it fumes only rarely and only the tiniest ammounts that you can't smell. When anything melts, it also releases fumes. Doesn't need to get boiling. I said already that I think there are only little to no fumes released. Maybe we are dosing ourselves with tiniest unsmellable bits of plastic fumes every use and we don't know it.

If we smelled plastic or saw it it would be discovered way earlier, but this one was so hidden we didn't even know there was plastic melting in the ceramic when in use. Melting so slowly it don't make noticeable smell and at place you can't see it melting.

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Or . . . perhaps the issue is not the plastic piece itself, but rather something gone wrong that is causing undue heat to be directed to and/or captured and held in that area. If this were a fundamental engineering flaw causing the same result for thousands of users, it's hard to imagine how the issue would not have surfaced before. I suppose I should take mine apart and take a look.

It wasn't found before for years because the piece is only melting rarely and so slowly that you can't smell it. And its melting in a hidden place. Hidden even when you disassemble it to almost core. You have to take the support out of ceramic to see the issue, obviously, nobody ever had to do this before. We only replaced the glass, that didn't need that step.

I think engineers at Arizer thought that heat doesn't make it all the way down so its safe to use plastic there. Ceramic is thermal insulant, so heat doesn't spread much in it and shoudn't go all the way down. But they were wrong. Seems that in some circumstances heat can make it all the way down to the bottom part of the ceramic and melt the plastic there. So rarely it can fume plastic at unsmellable ammounts.

That's a plausible explanation. I think however that it is equally plausible that there is a malfunction elsewhere raising the heat level at this location to the melting point. We can speculate, but IMO we don't have enough data to know what Arizer engineers did or did not think. Before drawing a firm conclusion, I need to hear Arizer's input.

Re taking the unit apart to check this, do you see a problem or risk with a user breaking it down to this point?

This is my plastic support piece, it is melted in same way as peterchens, but much less severely. This EQ was abused. Running on 260 for prolonged times, being upside down, heavy screen mod (like 10 screens around ceramic).
Peterchen said he didn't abuse the EQ in any ways like that, so the melting level can vary between units. Also I assume blowing into the EQ (or leaving a full bag attached) can carry high risk to melt it.