Vaporizer "up high" best way to get it or is it even possible?

nucleo said:

Ah yes, i posted the same thing u just typed a few days ago in this thread http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/volcano-revised.6491/#post-247954

Cept i don't pack the entire chamber.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that. I just read that thread and it sounds pretty similar to what I do. I think the whole idea of using re-vaped product works the best on the Volcano. The first time I tried it on my SSV I sparked a flame and vwallah, I was transported back about 5 years to when I used to combust.

For a volcano you need to choose the best temperature for the herb, and Affects you are choosing.

I have a hard time going above 360F.

I don't think re-vaping is anything to get involved with.

Most of the time the energy effect is entirely herb specific for me. But when I go low temp I don't have any of the slow cannaboids to hold me back.

Nosferatu said:

I disagree as well, this is how it may seem but it's not how it works. Personally smoking is the most up high I can get. I only vape when I'm alone at night or want something different. The whole temp thing is bogus in my opinion, no real science has been done on this. Besides for me and a few others lower temps get us more spacy and tired, and higher temps a more BAM in your face up high.

Click to expand...

Fuck your combustion vapes get you higher.

drumwizard said:

I've tried using less and putting the liquid pad on top but it's never quite the same. The vapor isn't as dense and I get less total bags no matter what strain I'm using.

Here is what I did when I was in a similar situation with my Volcano...

As your vape session goes on and on, you will notice when you're starting to get less vapor and the product is depleted. Eventually you begin to notice how many total bags you're getting per session (which can vary depending on quality, etc..). So what I did and still do when I use my Volcano is PURPOSELY STOP the session a little short so that I have a few bags left. I dump the remaining contents into a jar for storage. After so much time, you'll acquire a nice full jar of brown "re-vape" or "popcorn" as some like to call it. Then when I want to just get a mild high, I simply open the jar, re-grind it, and start vaping at a slightly higher temp than when I stopped the fresh stuff.

Example:
-pack a Volcano chamber full with OG Kush
-vape bag 1 at 362 F, vape bag 2 at 365 F, vape bag 3 at 370 F
-Feeling nicely medicated and sensing that I have about 3-4 bags left so I stop my vapor session and dump contents into the "popcorn" or "re-vape" jar.
-5 days later I'm looking to get some things done around the house but don't want to be couch locked...go find the jar
-Grind up your "popcorn" nice and fine and start bag 1 at 372 F, vape bag 2 at 375 F, vape bag 3 at 377 F, vape bag 4 at 379 F.

This method has worked for years now considering the Volcano was my only vape and method of medicating for a long time. I tend to think of it as a 3 tier system...a 3 would be vaping the POPCORN as mentioned above, a 2 would be vaping enough FRESH stuff that I'm feeling good and still have some vapor left for the popcorn jar (this is my usual method), and a 1 would be an all out FRESH vape until there is nothing left session.

Sorry if this is sloppy or if I confused you at all but I hope it helps your situation.

Click to expand...

Man you are wasting a lot of herb because unless you do around 6 bags at 396 you really aren't get a good amount of thc. The way you're using the volcano now is just aromatherapy with a miniscule of thc. Dr. Hornsby did an experiment showing this. Just do a google search for Dr Hornsby and volcano temperature settings.

luchiano said:

Man you are wasting a lot of herb because unless you do around 6 bags at 396 you really aren't get a good amount of thc. The way you're using the volcano now is just aromatherapy with a miniscule of thc. Dr. Hornsby did an experiment showing this. Just do a google search for Dr Hornsby and volcano temperature settings.

Click to expand...

You did see that it was just an EXAMPLE right? (random bag numbers, random strain, random temperatures)

Using the UD, which is not temperature adjustable (other than by varying your technique), there is no doubt at all that different strains give different effects.
I have the screen in the same place, and toke the same way every time, but Indicas make me relaxed or sleepy, sativas make me energized.

I also definatly get different effects from different strains. set and setting does have an effect, but usually the strain has a bigger influence. altough the difference between strains gets less when combusting with friends, vaping alone I notice the differences between strains strongest.
it's also not as simple as just indica-sativa, but also didfferent kinds of sativa-effect(indica I have less experience with, but also there I have noticed different efects)
like racey-ctive sativa, where you want to move, move fast, can't sit still, often results in cleaning/doing chores, and/or in chores being done faster than usual
then you have the philosophic/thinking kind of sativa, you can sit still easily, you're relaxed, but your thoughts are racing. this is a kind of high I realy like, downside is I can't watch comedy anymore since I start taking everything serious(for example tom&jerry), but it goes really well with documentaries.
then you have the giggly sativa, you can sit still, but also want to do things, if something pops in your mind you easily do it, mostly weird/funny stuff that you do while giggling to yourself. this is best for boredom since you always think of something to do. this high I really like for relaxation

those are the 3 kinds of effects that are my favorite and where I'm looking for

Ratm22 said:

For a volcano you need to choose the best temperature for the herb, and Affects you are choosing.

I have a hard time going above 360F.

I don't think re-vaping is anything to get involved with.

Most of the time the energy effect is entirely herb specific for me. But when I go low temp I don't have any of the slow cannaboids to hold me back.



Fuck your combustion vapes get you higher.

Click to expand...

No smoking gets me "higher", thank you though.

This is the most common thing me and my homeboy talk about when speaking green. I dont like to be lazified,but i want to be super high! The problem is, sativas are more expensive and rare.I usually turn the vape to right above cbd temp, so its mainly thc and cbd and all the good terpines/flavinoids I'm getting (around 375 on a stock EQ). CBD contributes to laziness a bit,but its not always a good high without it. Something else that helps me ALOT is to vape standing up. If I vape sitting down, I want to stay sitting down. Vape standing up, and I want to go tinker with something.


Since the vapes came along, I dont worry about the strain characteristics too much.

Nosferatu said:

No smoking gets me "higher", thank you though.

Click to expand...

When you smoke you're vaporizing, just less efficiently. Maybe some day we'll know a lot more about how much vapor you do get while smoking, and the real differences in content between smoke and vapor.

I've heard enough personal experiences over the years (smoke vs. vapor, and vaping different strains and at different temps), to suspect that it's probably like taking prescription drugs. Everyone's body chemistry is a little (to a lot) different and any two people can get very different effects from the same product and/or process. You can't go by someone else's advice or experience except as a starting point. You have to experiment and find what works best for you.

max said:

When you smoke you're vaporizing, just less efficiently. Maybe some day we'll know a lot more about how much vapor you do get while smoking, and the real differences in content between smoke and vapor.

I've heard enough personal experiences over the years (smoke vs. vapor, and vaping different strains and at different temps), to suspect that it's probably like taking prescription drugs. Everyone's body chemistry is a little (to a lot) different and any two people can get very different effects from the same product and/or process. You can't go by someone else's advice or experience except as a starting point. You have to experiment and find what works best for you.

Click to expand...

I agree Max we don't really know whats going on within the plant when heated up. So all we have is our personal experience, and I don't find smoking so disgusting or repulsive like some here describe it. I bet almost everyone here would come to enjoy it again if vapes didn't exist. Not trying to start an argument because this is FC after all, but I'm sick of stuck up vaporists claiming vaporizing is healthier than smoking. There is no scientific proof of this, no real hard repeatable science has been done on this subject. From personal experience with 10+ vapes and every form of water filtration and what not, I don't find it to be so much better a method of extraction than a Bic and a waterpipe. I really can't wait for some good scientist to be allowed to actually test the exact differences between the properties of the smoke and vapor, in a context that applies to us. But in the meantime i don't appreciate ratm22 saying "fuck your combustion, vaping gets YOU higher". Like Max said this isn't a debatable topic because everyone is different so can we all stop hating on smoking and just talk ABOUT vaping and the upsides it has.

I was just trying to help the OP in letting him know my as how to get the most "up" effect. And I would recomend getting a pure sativa and either taking just 1 big snap or no more than two vape hits or so, and let it kick in. if your looking for the up effect I find i's all about just taking 1 or two inhales and start going on with your day. In 15 mins it will be creeping up 'HIGH', but you won't be passing out.

Vaporizing may not be provably healthier, but there's no way you can say it is not tastier!

zymos said:

Vaporizing may not be provably healthier, but there's no way you can say it is not tastier!

Click to expand...

Oh yes, it is oh so so much tastier!

Nosferatu said:

I agree Max we don't really know whats going on within the plant when heated up. So all we have is our personal experience, and I don't find smoking so disgusting or repulsive like some here describe it. I bet almost everyone here would come to enjoy it again if vapes didn't exist. Not trying to start an argument because this is FC after all, but I'm sick of stuck up vaporists claiming vaporizing is healthier than smoking. There is no scientific proof of this, no real hard repeatable science has been done on this subject. From personal experience with 10+ vapes and every form of water filtration and what not, I don't find it to be so much better a method of extraction than a Bic and a waterpipe. I really can't wait for some good scientist to be allowed to actually test the exact differences between the properties of the smoke and vapor, in a context that applies to us. But in the meantime i don't appreciate ratm22 saying "fuck your combustion, vaping gets YOU higher". Like Max said this isn't a debatable topic because everyone is different so can we all stop hating on smoking and just talk ABOUT vaping and the upsides it has.

I was just trying to help the OP in letting him know my as how to get the most "up" effect. And I would recomend getting a pure sativa and either taking just 1 big snap or no more than two vape hits or so, and let it kick in. if your looking for the up effect I find i's all about just taking 1 or two inhales and start going on with your day. In 15 mins it will be creeping up 'HIGH', but you won't be passing out.

Click to expand...

Everybody has their own perspectives and preferences in life, and the getting high/medicated aspect is no different. I'm all for doing what suits you. As far as which is healthier, I offered no opinion on that, but since you brought it up, I can say I've read a lot of feedback on forums over the years from people switching from smoke to vapor, and a lot of 'em have reported an improvement in their cardiovascular functions. For me, even after giving up cigarettes ten years before I discovered vapor, smoking herb was bothering my lungs to the point where I was gonna have to give it up. Even a few small pipe hits at night was often too much for me. I also had a nagging 'smoker's cough' at the end of my smoking period. Unlike smoke, vapor, in moderation, does not bother my lungs, and I've been a regular vaporist for many years now. And yes, I do find smoke disgusting now, as many others do. I take a smoke hit so rarely now that my lungs aren't an issue, but I find that burning feeling in my throat very unpleasant. And like many others have reported, I use considerably less herb with vaping, confirming (for me anyway) the theory that vaping is much more efficient.

Nosferatu I understand that you don't like to see people trashing smoking if you still enjoy it, and it would be nice if everyone was more tolerant and considerate. But since the unofficial theme of this site is that vaping is preferable to smoking, you're pretty much in trying to get the 'fuck' separated from 'combustion' here. One particular sports forum I'm on has an overall tone that I (and quite a few others) don't like- many members enjoy being bullies and tearing apart posts/threads. 'Be nice' is definitely not a rule there. But it's the tone that management allows, and members that don't like it have a choice- either put up with it or go somewhere else. While we're not gonna let anyone call you names or put you down because you like to smoke sometimes, this is basically an anti-smoke forum, so you have to expect quite a bit of negativity towards smoking. To use the sports comparison again, you shouldn't go to a Dallas Cowboys forum and ask the members to stop hating the Redskins just because you have a soft spot for 'em. When you're in the minority you usually have to ignore stuff and go with the flow that's produced by the majority.

I think that this is more connected to the mentality that you are in when you vape and your lifestyle. If you eat a lot of processed food, don't get a lot of exercise, then yeah, when you vape you are going to want to sit on the couch and eat a whole bag of lays.

If you have a healthier lifestyle with more fruits/veggies and some kind of movement everyday, then when you vape you automatically want to do more active things.

I have experienced this and shifting your lifestyle really changes the way you feel high and how it affects you. Not to say that I can't vape a good indica and still get cough locked and wanna knock out. Also I recommend low temperatures during the day and a sativa dom/indica hybrid

Nosferatu said:

Not trying to start an argument because this is FC after all, but I'm sick of stuck up vaporists claiming vaporizing is healthier than smoking. There is no scientific proof of this, no real hard repeatable science has been done on this subject.

Click to expand...

This is demonstrably not correct. Plain common sense should tell you that if you burn something, it will produce substances that are not present without pyrolysis, and these are probably not good for your health if you inhale them. Since you insist on scientific proof, however, you can find it easily. My collection of papers is back home, but a quick Google search turns up this one immediately:

Vaporization as a Smokeless Cannabis Delivery System: A Pilot Study (DI Abrams, HP Vizoso, SB Shade, C Jay, ME Kelly and NL Benowitz, Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics, Advance online publication, 2007)

This particular study shows that vaporization eliminates CO, which I think you'll agree is harmful to your health. There's also the oft-cited Gieringer paper:

Cannabis “Vaporization”: A Promising Strategy for Smoke Harm Reduction (DH Gieringer, Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics Vol I No. 3/4, 2001)

I've posted criticism of this study here on several occasions, but not for its documentation of the reduced hazards of vaporization. It has a casual reference in it to the appearance of toxins at 200°C that is unsupported but is often quoted as fact. This paper shows that vaporization substantially reduces tars (which are carcinogenic). Gieringer participated in a later study:

Cannabis Vaporizer Combines Efficient Delivery of THC with Effective Suppression of Pyrolytic Compounds (Gieringer, D., St. Laurent, J., and Goodrich, S. Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics, Vol. 4(1) 2004)

This study confirms the reduction of the harmful products that result from combustion.

There are several studies that show combustion of marijuana produces harmful toxins. There are none that show that vaporization produces significant amounts of toxins, while there are some (see above) that document significant reduction or complete elimination of pyrolysis toxins. You are entitled to you attachment to a more harmful method of ingestion, but please don't make easily refuted assertions about the obvious benefits of vaporization over smoking.

Yet where are the in vivo studies that show smoked marijuana having negative health effects? In a room with a normal oxygen level, how much weed would you have to burn for that bit of CO to have any effects?

Thanks for providing references though- I disagree about your claim about "plain common sense", as the world is full of ideas that people believed in but were disproven by the scientific method.

are you serious? i can "feel" the effects of the co with my heart racing to compensate for the decrease in oxygen lol Studies or no studies, I can't believe it's a no brainer... i guess my chronic cough disappearing after switching to vaping from cannabis only combustion means nothing either.

zymos said:

Yet where are the in vivo studies that show smoked marijuana having negative health effects? In a room with a normal oxygen level, how much weed would you have to burn for that bit of CO to have any effects?

Thanks for providing references though- I disagree about your claim about "plain common sense", as the world is full of ideas that people believed in but were disproven by the scientific method.

Click to expand...

Emphasis mine. You say this but you also assert that inhaling CO and the tars produced by combustion don't matter? Do you not see a contradiction here?

Edited to add:

Re the studies concerning smoked marijuana: since I don't have access to my collection of papers, I will take a different approach.

The studies I cited show that vaporization eliminates CO and tars. It is well documented through tobacco studies that these compounds do have negative health effects, particularly on the bronchial system. It therefore seems to me to be obvious common sense to conclude that eliminating those toxins through vaporization is beneficial. While science might have disproven many common sense ideas, I don't see much chance of that here.

But these carcinogenic tars should be causing cancer, right? But the Taskin study showed that not to be the case.

I have no problem with people saying smoking makes them feel bad, and vaping does not. I believe you.


And tachycardia is not even a symptom of CO poisoning, though it may be caused simply by holding your breath...

zymos said:

But these carcinogenic tars should be causing cancer, right? But the Taskin study showed that not to be the case.

I have no problem with people saying smoking makes them feel bad, and vaping does not. I believe you.


And tachycardia is not even a symptom of CO poisoning, though it may be caused simply by holding your breath...

Click to expand...

It is by no means clear that the tars from marijuana smoke cause cancer, and in fact there are studies that conclude they do not. Cancer isn't the only harmful effect, however. As I said in my edit (which perhaps you didn't see before you posted) the harmful effects on the bronchial system are quite real.

zymos said:

And tachycardia is not even a symptom of CO poisoning, though it may be caused simply by holding your breath...

Click to expand...

Please don't spread misinformation.

http://www.codamage.com/carbon_monoxide_poisoning/carbon_monoxide_symptoms.html

Heart Symptoms. Potential cardiovascular symptoms are varied. They begin with tachycardia - an increase in heart rate (rapid heart beat). This is in response to insufficient oxygen and nutrients getting to the muscles of the heart

I don't always play devil's advocate-





-but when I do, I research hastily.

pakalolo said:

This is demonstrably not correct. Plain common sense should tell you that if you burn something, it will produce substances that are not present without pyrolysis, and these are probably not good for your health if you inhale them. Since you insist on scientific proof, however, you can find it easily. My collection of papers is back home, but a quick Google search turns up this one immediately:

Vaporization as a Smokeless Cannabis Delivery System: A Pilot Study (DI Abrams, HP Vizoso, SB Shade, C Jay, ME Kelly and NL Benowitz, Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics, Advance online publication, 2007)

This particular study shows that vaporization eliminates CO, which I think you'll agree is harmful to your health. There's also the oft-cited Gieringer paper:

Cannabis “Vaporization”: A Promising Strategy for Smoke Harm Reduction (DH Gieringer, Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics Vol I No. 3/4, 2001)

I've posted criticism of this study here on several occasions, but not for its documentation of the reduced hazards of vaporization. It has a casual reference in it to the appearance of toxins at 200°C that is unsupported but is often quoted as fact. This paper shows that vaporization substantially reduces tars (which are carcinogenic). Gieringer participated in a later study:

Cannabis Vaporizer Combines Efficient Delivery of THC with Effective Suppression of Pyrolytic Compounds (Gieringer, D., St. Laurent, J., and Goodrich, S. Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics, Vol. 4(1) 2004)

This study confirms the reduction of the harmful products that result from combustion.

There are several studies that show combustion of marijuana produces harmful toxins. There are none that show that vaporization produces significant amounts of toxins, while there are some (see above) that document significant reduction or complete elimination of pyrolysis toxins. You are entitled to you attachment to a more harmful method of ingestion, but please don't make easily refuted assertions about the obvious benefits of vaporization over smoking.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with Zymos here. I know there are 'toxins' released from combustion but there is still no proof these are bad for you in this context. Also most people just don't know how to smoke, and take way too big and hot of hits. Besides, people have been smoking weed for 1000's of years, and these carcinogens where never causing problems. The vape may be easier on the lungs, but in my experience at least you always have to take way more hits with the vape to get the full effect. So if the harm is reduced 1/4 but I always take 4 more inhales than when I smoke, whats that mean?

I have seen all these studies but I just don't think they are relevant to how we actually vape. Besides with vaping most people hold the hits in way longer and expose their lungs to vapor and particulates for a longer overall time. I still don't see any obvious benefits over smoking, maybe a little easier on the lungs and way tastier. But medically it doesn't give me that lung expansion and cleansing effect smoking does. I guess it comes down to personal preference but I still don't consider any of this science relevant, none of it has ever been reproduced and they use 2% THC NIDA cannabis.

Nosferatu said:

I have to agree with Zymos here. I know there are 'toxins' released from combustion but there is still no proof these are bad for you in this context. Also most people just don't know how to smoke, and take way too big and hot of hits. Besides, people have been smoking weed for 1000's of years, and these carcinogens where never causing problems. The vape may be easier on the lungs, but in my experience at least you always have to take way more hits with the vape to get the full effect. So if the harm is reduced 1/4 but I always take 4 more inhales than when I smoke, whats that mean?

I have seen all these studies but I just don't think they are relevant to how we actually vape. Besides with vaping most people hold the hits in way longer and expose their lungs to vapor and particulates for a longer overall time. I still don't see any obvious benefits over smoking, maybe a little easier on the lungs and way tastier. But medically it doesn't give me that lung expansion and cleansing effect smoking does. I guess it comes down to personal preference but I still don't consider any of this science relevant, none of it has ever been reproduced and they use 2% THC NIDA cannabis.

Click to expand...

Didn't read my follow-up, did you. Carcinogens not the only bad effects, etc. Read this:

A Comparison of Mainstream and Sidestream Marijuana and Tobacco Cigarette Smoke Produced under Two Machine Smoking
Conditions. D Moir, WS Rickert, G Levasseur, Y Larose, R Maertens, P White, and S Desjardins. Chemical Research in Toxicology, 2007.

Look at the tables showing the toxins produced in marijuana smoke. Now go back to the other studies and compare what they found in vapour. Enjoy.

I did read it, just didn't fully read all the studies but i have almost a year ago. You are right, vapor reduces the harm and increases the cannabinoids. But still, the other studies don't test for as many carcinogens and none of the studies test for gases with a low molecular weight like ammonia, hydrogen cyanide and carbon monoxide. How do we know the vape doesn't deliver you more of these compounds like it does the THC? I agree that the studies done so far on vaporizing point to vaping being healthier, but there is also a 20 year Harvard study showing smoking cannabis alone didn't reduce lung function like tobacco. It actually reduces chance of lung cancer or COPD. There haven't been any long term studies done on vapor. So yes vapor may deliver less of the certain carcinogens they tested for but I also noticed in those numbers you get less CBD and CBN to THC ratio than with smoking. Well aren't these some of the compounds that combat the sideffects of THC?

Once again I will stop posting because I was out of place and you are right that the studies show that vaping reduces harm and increases goodies. I just haven't personally felt this myself and think smoking gives a more balanced and overall healthy feeling effect(no really I do, and I used to vape exclusively for 2 years and hate on smoking)

pakalolo said:

You are entitled to you attachment to a more harmful method of ingestion, but please don't make easily refuted assertions about the obvious benefits of vaporization over smoking.

Click to expand...

Incorrect, you don't have proof smoking is a more harmful method of ingestion, reduced carcinogens in a few studies isn't enough to weigh all the positives and negatives of each method.