Obamacare

dannkk · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
My pre-existing condition may be a moot point to you, that's why you don't want to talk about it anymore? It is NOT a moot point to ME, but you keep missing that point. Why can't you answer the questions? Do you think it's ok to deny people due to pre-existing conditions?

NO ONE thinks that's ok. You don't realize it, but you're being a politician right now. "Oh, you don't think we should be at war? Oh, ok, so you hate our soldiers." "You don't agree with same sex marriage? I see, you're a homophobe." "You use marijuana? You support terrorism."

You don't need to jump on board because there is 1 or 2 things in a 3800!!! page bill that you agree with. That's their trick. They stick a few issues in there that everyone wants, and everyone agrees with, but they bundle it along with a bunch of bullshit. You seem intelligent...dunno why you can't see through this.

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

WTF?? I am suffering daily, with a pre-existing condition......I am happy I am now protected from being dropped, and that makes me a politician, or a bad person, a homophobe, a terrorist?? Jesus Christ, people need to learn a little fucking compassion. I am none of those things. I am a regular person who got sick. :rolleyes:

I wonder if the people that are bashing me would still be that way if they walked in my shoes for just a little while.

The Republicans just want complete repeal. They don't even care what will happen to the people that are now protected. They don't have any kind of real compromise or alternative. They just want it gone. This scares the FUCK out of me. How people can be so heartless is beyond me. I watched the political shows this weekend. I saw how they avoided the issue when they were confronted with the fact that people would go back to suffering if they repeal this. They sidestepped and ignored those points.

If this were repealed, would any of you help me with my medical bills when I'm dropped? Of course you wouldn't, that's not fair, and I would never expect any of you to do that.

Who cares about people like me? Who cares about sick children, and what will happen to us all if this is repealed. What is your solution for us?

VaporBoxed · Jul 2, 2012

Ron Paul said:
"I strongly disagree with today’s decision by the Supreme Court, but I am not surprised. The Court has a dismal record when it comes to protecting liberty against unconstitutional excesses by Congress.

"Today we should remember that virtually everything government does is a 'mandate.' The issue is not whether Congress can compel commerce by forcing you to buy insurance, or simply compel you to pay a tax if you don’t. The issue is that this compulsion implies the use of government force against those who refuse. The fundamental hallmark of a free society should be the rejection of force. In a free society, therefore, individuals could opt out of “Obamacare” without paying a government tribute.

"Those of us in Congress who believe in individual liberty must work tirelessly to repeal this national health care law and reduce federal involvement in healthcare generally. Obamacare can only increase third party interference in the doctor-patient relationship, increase costs, and reduce the quality of care. Only free market medicine can restore the critical independence of doctors, reduce costs through real competition and price sensitivity, and eliminate enormous paperwork burdens. Americans will opt out of Obamacare with or without Congress, but we can seize the opportunity today by crafting the legal framework to allow them to do so."

Thomas Sowell said:
It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.

zmurder · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
If this were repealed, would any of you help me with my medical bills when I'm dropped? Of course you wouldn't, that's not fair, and I would never expect any of you to do that.

You realize that is what you're asking, nay forcing the rest of society to do tho right?

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

zmurder said:
You realize that is what you're asking, nay forcing the rest of society to do tho right?

No, I am not. I have always had, and still have private insurance. I am no freeloader. I don't wait until I get sick, then go to the ER and stick everyone else with the bill. You are sorely mistaken. I have always paid for health insurance. The jerks that stick everyone with the bill are the freeloaders. I have been paying for them ALL MY LIFE.

What is your solution for us? I really want to know. People are all for repeal, but they don't have any solutions for the sick children and adults who would lose coverage. What is your solution for all of us?

Hippie Dickie · Jul 2, 2012

@WatTyler - beautiful post -- you have much more patience than i do for tea party bullshit.

@Vicki - i think there is only one precondition, and everybody has it -- it's called being alive.

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

Hippie Dickie said:
@WatTyler - beautiful post -- you have much more patience than i do for tea party bullshit.

@Vicki - i think there is only one precondition, and everybody has it -- it's called being alive.

I think you are right, and it's truly sad.

I also think Alan Grayson was right when he said "Republicans say don't get sick, but if you do, die quickly."

dannkk · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
snip

You completely missed my point, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough. You are calling those of us that disagree with the bill heartless, because those like yourself wouldn't be able to get coverage without it. That's exactly how this is supposed to work. "You don't want obamacare? You're heartless." These bills are designed like this on purpose. They convince us that in order to get the things we need/want, we need to give them power over everything. It's not the case. It's not even close to the case.

zmurder · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
No, I am not. I have always had, and still have private insurance. I am no freeloader. I don't wait until I get sick, then go to the ER and stick everyone else with the bill. You are sorely mistaken. I have always paid for health insurance. The jerks that stick everyone with the bill are the freeloaders. I have been paying for them ALL MY LIFE.

Ha hard to know what to respond to when the edits come hard and fast. I am sorry that you have been paying for freeloaders your whole life (or at least since the EMTALA in 1986) -- that is not right. I'm not sure how you see a difference between that freeloader scheme and this one that you support. The penalties under Obamacare are not high enough to get compliance (and the SC just said that individuals don't have to pay the fines) ..... so I'm afraid that Obamacare has just institutionalized the freeloader system you have been paying for ALL YOUR LIFE. People will wait to get sick to start paying for health insurance (since they can't be turned away) and the cost will be borne by higher premiums and shittier health care ..... FOR ALL!

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

dannkk said:
You completely missed my point, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough. You are calling those of us that disagree with the bill heartless, because those like yourself wouldn't be able to get coverage without it. That's exactly how this is supposed to work. "You don't want obamacare? You're heartless." These bills are designed like this on purpose. They convince us that in order to get the things we need/want, we need to give them power over everything. It's not the case. It's not even close to the case.

Then, I will ask again, what is your solution for us?? I really want to know!!

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

zmurder said:
Ha hard to know what to respond to when the edits come hard and fast. I am sorry that you have been paying for freeloaders your whole life (or at least since the EMTALA in 1986) -- that is not right. I'm not sure how you see a difference between that freeloader scheme and this one that you support. The penalties under Obamacare are not high enough to get compliance (and the SC just said that individuals don't have to pay the fines) ..... so I'm afraid that Obamacare has just institutionalized the freeloader system you have been paying for ALL YOUR LIFE. People will wait to get sick to start paying for health insurance (since they can't be turned away) and the cost will be borne by higher premiums and shittier health care ..... FOR ALL!

Again....I ask......what is your solution for us?????? How can the sick children and adults be protected if this is repealed? What are we supposed to do?

lwien · Jul 2, 2012

dannkk said:
You completely missed my point, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough. You are calling those of us that disagree with the bill heartless, because those like yourself wouldn't be able to get coverage without it. That's exactly how this is supposed to work. "You don't want obamacare? You're heartless." These bills are designed like this on purpose. They convince us that in order to get the things we need/want, we need to give them power over everything. It's not the case. It's not even close to the case.

So you honestly believe that the sole purpose of Obama passing this bill is his desire for power?

lwien · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
Again....I ask......what is your solution for us??????

Yup. The ONLY thing I've heard from Romney is that he will dismantle this bill as soon as he takes office without ever stating what in the hell he is going to replace it with.

One thing I believe that we can all agree on is that our health care system is broken. While Obama's solution is far from perfect, it IS a step to make it better. If you (the Conservative Right) feel that it is the wrong bill, than for God's sake, come up with an alternative, but one thing is for sure. Our Health Care System needs fixing.................bad.

Now what I REALLY want to know is..........Ya got any grapes?

dannkk · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
What is your solution for us? I really want to know. People are all for repeal, but they don't have any solutions for the sick children and adults who would lose coverage. What is your solution for all of us?

The solution is to give us our freedom back.

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

dannkk said:
The solution is to give us our freedom back.

No, what is your solution for the SICK CHILDREN AND ADULTS that would lose protection?? What are we supposed to do if this is repealed??

Please answer those questions.

zmurder · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
Again....I ask......what is your solution for us?????? How can the sick children and adults be protected if this is repealed? What are we supposed to do?

The solution? Ya mean if we went all the way back to the dark days of early 2010? Respectfully Vicki I don't believe that the federal government is the solution to every problem. You act as though one must have an alternative federal proposal in order to realize that Obamacare is both immoral and likely to increase health care costs. The alternative to Obamacare is no Obamacare. That's a good start. But of course the government should do more -- by stripping away each and every way that federal bureaucracy gets between individuals and voluntary health care providers.

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

zmurder said:
The solution? Ya mean if we went all the way back to the dark days of early 2010? Respectfully Vicki I don't believe that the federal government is the solution to every problem. You act as though one must have an alternative federal proposal in order to realize that Obamacare is both immoral and likely to increase health care costs. The alternative to Obamacare is no Obamacare. That's a good start. But of course the government should do more -- by stripping away each and every way that federal bureaucracy gets between individuals and voluntary health care providers.

I never said any of that. I want to know what your solution is for the sick children and adults who will have no health coverage if this is repealed, RIGHT NOW, THIS YEAR? Politics aside, I really want to know!! Yes, you're damn right there should be an alternative!! What are we supposed to do, suffer? Die?? It's a legitimate question and it deserves a proper answer.

dannkk · Jul 2, 2012

lwien said:
So you honestly believe that the sole purpose of Obama passing this bill is his desire for power?

Think about it. As a member of FC, you've seen how far states rights can go. Marijuana is now decriminalized is several states. Think the federal government likes having states be this autonomous? What would happen if a state really woke up? Deciding to run things correctly, instead of keeping the status quo. The states can make their own money. Open their own banks.

Now, with obamacare, the states will be receiving billions more dollars from the federal government. This funding can be discontinued if the state does not follow all regulations placed on them by taking the money in the first place. This is control. What if some panel decided marijuana isn't medicine, and states must repeal their medical marijuana laws or lose their obamacare funding? The state governemnt weighs the options....1 billion a year from sales tax, or 30 billion a year from obamacare funding. They just built a bunch of hospitals and expanded medicaid, so they can't even afford to think about not getting that 30 billion.

zmurder · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
I never said any of that. I want to know what your solution is for the sick children and adults who will have no health coverage if this is repealed, RIGHT NOW, THIS YEAR? Politics aside, I really want to know!! Yes, you're damn right there should be an alternative!! What are we supposed to do, suffer? Die?? It's a legitimate question and it deserves a proper answer.

OK, you need something simpler: get government out, get charities in. This would require true virtue and compassion, though.

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

zmurder said:
OK, you need something simpler: get government out, get charities in. This would require true virtue and compassion, though.

That does not help us. If this is repealed, the sick with pre-exisiting conditions are screwed. We need an alternative IMMEDIATELY. The insurance companies cannot be allowed to keep doing this to sick people, especially children. Charities can't help pay my THOUSANDs of dollars in medical bills if I am dropped, and neither can you. Now, I ask you again, what is your feasible alternative?

Oh, and you're right, it would require true virtue and compassion, none of which I have seen by the Obamacare opposers.

dannkk · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
No, what is your solution for the SICK CHILDREN AND ADULTS that would lose protection?? What are we supposed to do if this is repealed??

Please answer those questions.

I've been nice, but you don't see sense. Maybe if I'm blunt, you'll get it. You are a politicians wet dream. You need something badly, and you are willing to agree to ANYTHING to get it. This is how they design these power grabbing bills. Look back to the last one. Patriot Act. Everyone wanted to be safe. We thought we'd give up some freedom and be safe from terrorists, but they still cram that stuff down our throat, and we're still fighting the "war on terror." They're not going to fool me again.

lwien · Jul 2, 2012

dannkk said:
I've been nice, but you don't see sense. Maybe if I'm blunt, you'll get it. You are a politicians wet dream. You need something badly, and you are willing to agree to ANYTHING to get it. This is how they design these power grabbing bills. Look back to the last one. Patriot Act. Everyone wanted to be safe. We thought we'd give up some freedom and be safe from terrorists, but they still cram that stuff down our throat, and we're still fighting the "war on terror." They're not going to fool me again.

But so far, it seems like the Patriot Act has worked, eh? EVERYTHING is a negotiaion, right, and as such, one has to give up a little of this to get a bit of that. THAT is how the world works, like it or not.

Vicki · Jul 2, 2012

dannkk said:
I've been nice, but you don't see sense. Maybe if I'm blunt, you'll get it. You are a politicians wet dream. You need something badly, and you are willing to agree to ANYTHING to get it. This is how they design these power grabbing bills. Look back to the last one. Patriot Act. Everyone wanted to be safe. We thought we'd give up some freedom and be safe from terrorists, but they still cram that stuff down our throat, and we're still fighting the "war on terror." They're not going to fool me again.

WTF?? That's your answer to a legitimately sick individual that is happy that they are now protected?? Again, you don't give me an answer as to what the sick children and adults will do? Why??

Why can't you just answer this one question for me without insulting me or side stepping the issue (or calling me a "wet dream"), like the politicians are? Is it just that you have no answer to my question? Or, you just don't care? The sick people deserve an alternative, and I am not bad for saying so.

I don't like the mandate, I really don't. But, what am I supposed to do if this is repealed? I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to get. Maybe it is because they aren't sick like me, and could not possibly understand what it's like for an illness to bankrupt them. Please, give me a feasible alternative.

dannkk · Jul 2, 2012

lwien said:
But so far, it seems like the Patriot Act has worked, eh? EVERYTHING is a negotiaion, right, and as such, one has to give up a little of this to get a bit of that. THAT is how the world works, like it or not.

The problem is here is...people don't even know what they're giving up or what they're getting.

Tea Party · Jul 2, 2012

Vicki said:
WTF?? That's your answer to a legitimately sick individual that is happy that they are now protected?? Again, you don't give me an answer as to what the sick children and adults will do? Why??

Why can't you just answer this one question for me without insulting me or side stepping the issue (or calling me a "wet dream"), like the politicians are? Is it just that you have no answer to my question? Or, you just don't care? The sick people deserve an alternative, and I am not bad for saying so.

I don't like the mandate, I really don't. But, what am I supposed to do if this is repealed? I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to get. Maybe it is because they aren't sick like me, and could not possibly understand what it's like for an illness to bankrupt them. Please, give me a feasible alternative.

Eventually you, like billions of other people, will die. Life is terminal get over it. For those saying this country so badly needs health care, ( especially those of you from europe) where the fuck will we get the money for this? We already spend over a trillion a year more than we take in.
WSJ Chief Economist - 75% of Obamacare Costs Will Fall on Backs of Those Making Less Than $120K a Year

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