Discontinued Purple-Days Vaporizer

Vitolo said:

When I used my 2 PDs until I gave them away... I did try an underdog stem, after getting two of them from you guys!
I found Alan of Toasty Top and HI's version of the UD stem to work much better.

In the end, I always used my older type AromaZap stems on them and they gave the best hits of all of them.
The old type Aromazap vapor tubes are still available at: Zap Stems

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Once again, the Sage of the High Desert (SHD) comes through. Some serious research behind those useful observations. More than most of us could/would be doing. Well presented here for our use. Way to go Vitolo, the young should draw near and see how it should be done......

So, two questions. First how about the stock PD stem? How does it fit in? Secondly, what makes one better than the other?

TIA big guy.

OF

The stock PD stems worked. I was not getting warm enough hits, but I found that the older Zap stems were made of lead free brass, which is a faster conductor of heat.
The Old Zap stems of the lead free brass were also thinner walled, making conduction of heat even better.

Vitolo said:

The stock PD stems worked. I was not getting warm enough hits, but I found that the older Zap stems were made of lead free brass, which is a faster conductor of heat.
The Old Zap stems of the lead free brass were also thinner walled, making conduction of heat even better.

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Ah, so! Great insight. For all it's good features, stainless steel is a LOUSY heat conductor (which is why my SS thermos bottle works....).

Thanks. "As a guy who owns one".

OF

OF said:

Ah, so! Great insight. For all it's good features, stainless steel is a LOUSY heat conductor

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SS has worked great for me. I can't see why I would want my PD stems to conduct any more heat than they already do. Stainless steel, in regards to how it was used in the PD, for many of us, was anything but a LOUSY heat conductor.

lwien said:

OF said:

Ah, so! Great insight. For all it's good features, stainless steel is a LOUSY heat conductor

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SS has worked great for me. I can't see why I would want my PD stems to conduct any more heat than they already do. Stainless steel, in regards to how it was used in the PD, for many of us, was anything but a LOUSY heat conductor.

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The stock stems work well for me. Then again, having never tried the ones Vitolo has suggested I'm not sure it couldn't be better. Have you tried them? What's your opinion? As I understand it, SS came to the front to deal with the 'evil lead in there' nay sayers not for engineering reasons?

No matter how you spin it, SS is a poor heat conductor relative to most metals. A lot worse than brass. Call it 'good insulator' if you wish, but science is science.

Again, have you tried it? Or is it just your opinion that brass isn't superior in this application?

OF

OF, please reread my post. I NEVER stated that brass isn't a superior heat conductor, nor have I ever said that SS is not a poor heat conductor relative to most metals. To repeat, what I DID say was that SS, in regards to how it is used in the PD, for "many" of us, served it's purpose perfectly well. I wouldn't want a better conductor, because as it is, my ABV comes out a VERY dark chocolate brown, just a shade or two below black and it does so pretty evenly. 5 good hits per bowl with the first two blowing major clouds without any excess heat that would cause coughing.

You made a statement that SS is a lousy heat conductor, and I just felt that that statement needed clarification because again, when used in the PD, for me as well as many others it is NOT a lousy heat conductor.

It is all a matter of preference.
I liked the brass stems better, because I like the darker ABV and deeper medication.
When I passed the 2 PD units on, one person took the 2 PD stems by his own preference, and one requested the brass stems, wanting a warmer hit.
Both people tried both first, and decided according to preference.
It is all subjective, and we all differ!

Vitolo said:

It is all subjective, and we all differ!

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Agreed, and it's the reason that I felt that OF's post needed a bit of clarification. Making a general statement without qualification, stating that SS is a lousy heat conductor as used in the application of the PD is just not accurate.

As an example, my Cherry PD, which runs on the warm side, is perfectly fine with the SS bowls, but my Ash PD, which runs cooler would benefit from a metal that conducted heat a bit better.

lwien said:

Agreed, and it's the reason that I felt that OF's post needed a bit of clarification. Making a general statement without qualification, stating that SS is a lousy heat conductor as used in the application of the PD is just not accurate.

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Thanks for presuming to correct my statement, but that's not what I said, now is it? I said 'it's a lousy conductor of heat', I made no reference to that being a good idea or bad. Right?

It is a lousy heat conductor relative to brass, right? No matter what the application. Each guy gets to decide if that's a good idea with PD stems (as Vitolo did), hopefully and informed decision.

Vitolo made an interesting statement, based on his experience, that one stem was superior. I asked what he thought made one better, he told me, I assumed (always a dangerous thing) it had to do with heat conduction and said as much.

Again, have you actually tried them (brass stems) in the PD? Do you have experience with both or are you just happy with what you have and are assuming (again dangerous) that more conduction wouldn't be better?

OF

So distilling the brass stem discussion....

If you would like to get better hits from your PD (or any other applicable log), then trying a brass stem from Rick may be the trick, as the brass conducts heat much easier than the SS and may provide a boost in hit strength.

That about right?

OF said:

Again, have you actually tried them (brass stems) in the PD? Do you have experience with both or are you just happy with what you have and are assuming (again dangerous) that more conduction wouldn't be better?

OF

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No, I have not tried brass stems, but again, I don't understand how it could possibly be better. In what way could it be better considering what I described in my post (#10232) above? Secondly, it has been my experience when using brass in smoking devices like brass screens or my old Protopipe, that brass imparts a taste that I really don't like.

On another note, I just saw Joe Cocker do "With a Little Help from my Friends" at Woodstock. I totally forgot what it's really like to watch someone REALLY perform. It's just as amazing today as when it was when I first saw it........maybe even better.

lwien said:

OF said:

Again, have you actually tried them (brass stems) in the PD? Do you have experience with both or are you just happy with what you have and are assuming (again dangerous) that more conduction wouldn't be better?

OF

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No, I have not tried brass stems, but again, I don't understand how it could possibly be better. In what way could it be better considering what I described in my post (#10232) above? Secondly, it has been my experience when using brass in smoking devices like brass screens or my old Protopipe, that brass imparts a taste that I really don't like.

On another note, I just saw Joe Cocker do "With a Little Help from my Friends" at Woodstock. I totally forgot what it's really like to watch someone REALLY perform. It's just as amazing today as when it was when I first saw it........maybe even better.

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I haven't tried them either, yet. Two coming. I too am happy with my factory PD, but know there are those who wrap more insulation on, search for answers in the species of wood used in the body and (against the makers advice and wishes) go to higher voltages in the quest for better still. And now, I have Vitolo, who's experiences and judgment I trust in general, offering this simple option that lets me explore this idea. Frankly, I don't expect much as I think Tom and Pammy (and all the rest of the good folks that developed similar units) as they fine tuned the performance to meet 'the average guy' and what he's looking for. But here's a no risk (to the unit), cheap (to me at least) and easy way for me to check it out. FWIW, I value being open in such matters and think it's often the route of progress.

You're right about Joe C of course. And others of the era. I wasn't at Woodstock, but watched from afar and was immersed in the music of the age as were so many others. It was an interesting (and IMO great) time for such performers. They were free in many ways in those more innocent days to follow their art, something 'the star system' has stifled IMO. And while we're left with something good often times still few if any of the next generation had this edge. Like the great composers of past generations, the environment they existed in was a factor that gave us Beethoven and Mozart (amongst others). In this case, luckily, the recording machines were running.

Yes, I think lots good (even great) came from Woodstock. Except maybe the Purple Acid and they did kinda trash Yasker's farm, didn't they?

Thanks.

OF

Stu said:

The PD has a set bowl size and it is easy to load using the straw method. I suck until it's full, and wipe away any loose herb sticking out from the SS bowl. Twist of the finger and maybe a tap and she's loaded. When cashed, I just blow into the muslin bag and she's cleared.

The UD doesn't have a fixed bowl size and you must leave room below the "bowl" portion of the silicone to slide over the heatport. So if you load too much using the straw method, you have to kinda "squeeze" the silicone and play with it to let some of the herb fall back out. It's definitely not rocket science by any means, but not as convenient as loading a PD IMO.

Also when dumping a cashed load from a UD stem, you need to be careful not to blow out the screen. This is more likely to happen in a newly inserted screen and with time I would think become less of an issue.

Some people may prefer the UD stlye's customizable bowl size and the tighter airflow of the silicone, but in my own personal experience, I prefer the PD style experience.

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I was wondering if this might be the case. I too like the consistent bowl size of the PD type stems. I've adjusted mine so I get just the right amount every time. With the silicone stems I've ended up pushing some herb aside and forming it into a line before sucking it up. Not as accurate as with the PD stems, but it helps. I think I will eventually go back to the standard PD stems, unless something better comes along.

~~~

With regards to the discussion about PD vs Zap stems, I have my doubts about whether differences in performance are due to the kind of metal used. Although they do conduct heat differently, I think that in practice the difference would be difficult to detect. Having used the silicone stems, they seem to hit hotter, yet apart from the screen there is no metal in them. Conduction has nothing to do with their superior performance. I wonder if the Zap stems are a tighter fit than the PD stems? Just a small amount of cool air sneaking in between the gaps could make a difference.

hazy said:

With regards to the discussion about PD vs Zap stems, I have my doubts about whether differences in performance are due to the kind of metal used. Although they do conduct heat differently, I think that in practice the difference would be difficult to detect. Having used the silicone stems, they seem to hit hotter, yet apart from the screen there is no metal in them. Conduction has nothing to do with their superior performance. I wonder if the Zap stems are a tighter fit than the PD stems? Just a small amount of cool air sneaking in between the gaps could make a difference.

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I agree, that might not be a factor, but it is at least possible as the conduction properties are much different. I'd also thought it might have to do with the bowl size or shape, screen material, mesh size or area exposed (the PD circlip restricts the flow a fair bit, the Zap stem seems differently retained?). Vitolo's observation is they're better for him (and one of two others who did side by side testing), material is his guess as to why. I'm cool with that idea, an I guess in the end will be OK if they do better no matter the reason. If they don't, for what ever reason, they don't and that's that.

Testing must press on if we're going to save the world in time......

OF

OF said:

You're right about Joe C of course. And others of the era. I wasn't at Woodstock, but watched from afar and was immersed in the music of the age as were so many others. It was an interesting (and IMO great) time for such performers. They were free in many ways in those more innocent days to follow their art, something 'the star system' has stifled IMO. And while we're left with something good often times still few if any of the next generation had this edge. Like the great composers of past generations, the environment they existed in was a factor that gave us Beethoven and Mozart (amongst others). In this case, luckily, the recording machines were running.

Yes, I think lots good (even great) came from Woodstock. Except maybe the Purple Acid and they did kinda trash Yasker's farm, didn't they?

Thanks.

OF

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Well said, and if you go back even further to Monterey Pop, there were performances there that were just as amazing.............like Janis Joplin. I miss those days, but soooo glad that I was able to experience them firsthand. Such great music created and performed by such great artists.

hazy said:

With regards to the discussion about PD vs Zap stems, I have my doubts about whether differences in performance are due to the kind of metal used. Although they do conduct heat differently, I think that in practice the difference would be difficult to detect. Having used the silicone stems, they seem to hit hotter, yet apart from the screen there is no metal in them. Conduction has nothing to do with their superior performance. I wonder if the Zap stems are a tighter fit than the PD stems? Just a small amount of cool air sneaking in between the gaps could make a difference.

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+1

lwein -- did you ever get a chance to see Savoy Brown with Chris Youlden back in the day? Man, you guys have no idea how lucky you were to be up and running back then. Or, maybe you do! SB is touring NH in March and I am definitely going. Woot! Kim Simmonds is one unfortunately relatively-unknown guitarist, but so damn good. God bless him. And god bless the blues. And the Brits, too.

(If any of you tell me you got to see Fleetwood Mac back in the day with Peter Green and Danny Kirwan, I will personally strangle you out of sheer jealousy ;-P)

(Whoops, hijack city here!)

I didn't see Savoy Brown but I always liked them. I did see alot of great shows back in the day. Probably my favorite concert memory was Frank Zappa at the Felt Forum in 1971 conducting an orchestra called "The Hot Rats Ensemble."
Tim Buckley opened. In those days there was more freedom. My friends and I each dropped a hit of acid on the way to the show and once we were seated we all proceeded to smoke our own personal joints and there were many of them. The usher came by with the flashlight and red sports jacket and asked to see our ticket stubs - that was all. I remember acting annoyed, reaching into my pocket to show it to him, with a joint in my other hand, and then the usher said thank you and he left.

kewpcer said:

If you would like to get better hits from your PD (or any other applicable log), then trying a brass stem from Rick may be the trick, as the brass conducts heat much easier than the SS and may provide a boost in hit strength. That about right?

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I don't think so. Conduction heat from the metal bowl plays a very small part. Can you sit the tube/stem in the vape for a while and gain a little temp? Yes, but I don't think it would be that noticeable. The bowl is just a container for the convection process. The heat is coming from the unit, not the bowl, and I feel safe in saying that a nice, slow draw would get you a higher temp than using a brass stem. Certainly, if you insert the brass stem and immediately take a hit, there'll be virtually no difference between that temp and what you'd get with a ss stem.

that a nice, slow draw would get you a higher temp than using a brass stem

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well, this is a question i've been wrestling with ... viz. the temperature simply can not get higher than the heater -- but perhaps a slow draw drops the heater temperature less -- perhaps allowing the heat sink to compensate for the temp drop during the hit. Because the log heater just can not compensate for thermal loss during the hit.

but perhaps a slow draw drops the heater temperature less

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That's what I meant. Not a big difference, by any means, but more of a factor than the bowl material for the most part.

Damn, it's awesome you guys got to hear all that crazy stuff live

Looks like I'm going to come upon some concentrates soon
not positive how I'll go about Pd'ing them, probably layered like I do hash. I'll see if I can get some vapor pics

You can "PD" your concentrates as I do here

touch to view vid.
I also wipe up spilled hash oils or Iso cleanings of Hash oils and other concentrates with a q-tip.. and I do the same!

Vitolo:

I think the cotton/oil trick you discovered, is probably the most insanely cool thing I have found on fuckcombustion! I was telling my friend about it yesterday - and it blew his mind. I would love to try it - so I am going to try to make some oil.

If there was an award for most Macgyver-type vaping trick - you win hands down!

that is an awesome innovation vitolo! wow! thanks I never thought if trying this before!

21 hits! You are the king