Discontinued ThermoVape Evolution
- Thread starter SameOldTim
- Start date
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
I've been testing since I first posted the message about directly connecting the mouthpiece to the Evo instead of via the Delrin sleeve, refining my technique and learning the ins and outs of the Evo, and at least once a day I try the standard Delrin sleeve again, and I still can't get the Evo to work well this way, and I still have no idea why. My Evo works great with the direct connect. I have also found that using the Evo this way allows me a tremendous amount of control. By varying my breathing technique and modulating the power switch, I can make a load five or six "HUGE HITS" or eight or nine normal hits, depending on my desires. This is the first time I have been able to duplicate what Tim and the TV gang were talking about with regard to saving battery life and getting the perfect size hits by modulating the power switch.
I use a modified Delrin sleeve, with the top "cut off", (see jam's message with pictures; I did exactly the same thing), to prevent burning myself when overly medicated, but still allowing the direct connection of the mouthpiece.
I have found zero difference with and without the modified sleeve, other then it saves my fingers. So I use it all the time.I did find that two of my 16 batteries were not up to snuff. It was totally messing with my testing, as I would have "everything figured out" and then all of a sudden I would get completely different (unsatisfactory) results. Once I took the two weak batteries out of the rotation, all was well again. Battery awareness and maintenance is going to be an ongoing "problem" for everyone, as we take more and more life our of our batteries. We really beat the shit out of our batteries with the load the TVs draw. And maybe more significantly, we not only heat the batteries up severely every time we use them, we also regularly discharge them to the absolute minimum (or less, if the Tenergy cells don't have low voltage cutoff protection built in). I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about recognizing when a battery is due for the recycling bin.
And speaking of batteries, I've just invested in a smart charger, which will not only charge multiple batteries at once (this one up to six), but will safely charge them much faster (15 minutes to a half hour from dead to fully charged). It will also evaluate the cells, and will tell me when it's time to retire a given battery, and save me from the frustration of not knowing why my T1/Evo isn't working properly and from wasting a bunch of weed. Dead batteries are easy to recognise, but underperforming batteries are hard to detect as they still work well enough to heat up the core, just not enough. And if you're using a two cell standard voltage setup, the good cell will further trash the weak cell every time you use it. Then we mistakenly blame everything else on our poor results, because the batteries "must be ok" because they make the core glow.
Though smart chargers can run a LOT of money (hundreds of dollars), they can also be had cheaply. There's a wonderful charger put out by Thunder (AC6) that is well suited for our needs. It can charge from one to six cells of any type (LiIo, LiPo, LiFe, NiMH, NiCad, Pb), has a built in AC adapter, hooks up to your computer if you want, to give you graphs and a record of each of your cells, and only costs $45. (Note that you do have to build your own charging holders for whatever batteries you have, but it's pretty easy to do). I'll post pictures and info when all of the different parts finally get here. For those that have multiple types and sizes of batteries for all their different vaporizers, I would think a single great charger would be a no brainer. There are even smart chargers that can charge different chemistry batteries at the same time (though not for $45).
TheDudeNextDoor
Abiding
Yeah, that's what I was thinking also, which is why I haven't tried it, but the TV website says you can do it: "The wide bore of the included mouthpiece also allows you to use a dropper bottle with water in it to 'direct-drip' 1-2 drop of water onto the ceramic when it becomes dry. This allows you to refresh the moisture conditioning of the Inline Moisture Conditioner without having to take anything apart. Just drip in a drop and you are back to enjoying smooth, cool vapor. "
TheDudeNextDoor
Abiding
I'm pretty certain the consensus is to get the lv unless you have other 6v components to coordinate.
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
When I re-wet my smooth flow I just turn my whole vaping assembly (T1, Revo, Persei, etc.) upside down and dip it mouthpiece first into some water (or flavored alcohol 
)
Do a couple shakes/centrifugal swings while keeping it upside down, turn it right-side up, and you're in business!
)Do a couple shakes/centrifugal swings while keeping it upside down, turn it right-side up, and you're in business!
OF
Well-Known Member
I too generally vape at home, but here's kind of a shocker to consider: I like to use portables like cordless phones. Even with my HA right there, I typically opt for something that actually also travels well. If you get a vape you like, I don't see much need for a cord.
And my affliction isn't restricted to batteries either. I also burn butane in my Iolites and through lighters with VG and a personal favorite, Vapman, "around the house". And out into the garden as the spirit moves, here in California it's kinda like another room with trees, sky and birds.
I find I can enjoy fine hardware, even when I have other options? I bet you do too.
Best wishes, enjoy your new purchase most everyone does.
And best Holiday wishes to all.
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
By all means you should use it as you like best. Experiment with it. Try what's suggested, but go with what works best for you.
But remember to be objective. The last bit above can't possibly be correct in an objective way. It's like saying adding insulation to your house made the heating bill go up. Keeping the core from loosing heat to the outside means there's more heat left for the inside....that means it gets to any given temperature faster, not slower with the heat shield on. It's the way physics has always worked around here anyway.
OF
OF, I agree with you 100% on theory.
Practically, however we are seeing conflicting results. Something else must be at play here, no?
Put your thinking cap on.
Lesser mysteries have been solved by greater men.....or maybe I have that backwards.... but I digress...
Thermodynamics are a bitch.
Practically, however we are seeing conflicting results. Something else must be at play here, no?
Put your thinking cap on.
Lesser mysteries have been solved by greater men.....or maybe I have that backwards.... but I digress...Thermodynamics are a bitch.
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
OF: There's still something we're all missing. Or at least I am. I have three different Delrin sleeves, with and without UFOs, two different 6v Evo cores, and six red O-Rings. I can't seem to get even reasonable results when I am using the Evo as designed, with the Delrin sleeve holding the mouthpiece. I'm not as driven anymore to figure out why I can't get the standard Evo-with-sleeve to work, since I have it working to my satisfaction via the direct connect method. (I'm still curious though ).
That said, I use a modified Delrin sleeve now (end chopped off, mouthpiece connecting directly to the core), and I see absolutely no difference with it on or off, in terms of how long the warm up time from cold is, how hot the core gets (subjectively), or how well the vaporization goes (e.g., how thick the clouds are, how many hits from a load, how much battery is being used, etc.). Using the modified sleeve has a positive effect on my fingers, the heat radiating to my face, and it has a nice look, but I don't see much to indicate any change to the laws of physics.
ctweips: So many seemingly trivial or unnoticed things effect how my vaporizers work that I've started to try to not jump to conclusions. Discovering two lame batteries in my horde yesterday finally explained some of the occasional lack-of-consistency problems I was experiencing that I was ready to blame on something else. Maybe it just feels like the core is heating up faster because it's exposed and radiating, rather than the Delrin sleeve is defying physics. (Of course, the inside of the core is actually losing heat faster without the sleeve, though in my experience it doesn't seem to have any significant effect, and I'm not sure how it would effect initial warm up time in any case). If you're comparing the Evo without any Delrin sleeve to the Evo with the standard sleeve setup, you are seeing more than just the presence of the sleeve versus without. Your air path is completely different (direct connect path versus through the sleeve before getting to the mouthpiece and different aerodynamics). You might consider ordering an extra Delrin sleeve or two from TV and modify them as Jam and I have. Best of both worlds, from my point of view. None the less, I'm glad to hear you're getting great results, and that you're happy.
).That said, I use a modified Delrin sleeve now (end chopped off, mouthpiece connecting directly to the core), and I see absolutely no difference with it on or off, in terms of how long the warm up time from cold is, how hot the core gets (subjectively), or how well the vaporization goes (e.g., how thick the clouds are, how many hits from a load, how much battery is being used, etc.). Using the modified sleeve has a positive effect on my fingers, the heat radiating to my face, and it has a nice look, but I don't see much to indicate any change to the laws of physics.
ctweips: So many seemingly trivial or unnoticed things effect how my vaporizers work that I've started to try to not jump to conclusions. Discovering two lame batteries in my horde yesterday finally explained some of the occasional lack-of-consistency problems I was experiencing that I was ready to blame on something else. Maybe it just feels like the core is heating up faster because it's exposed and radiating, rather than the Delrin sleeve is defying physics. (Of course, the inside of the core is actually losing heat faster without the sleeve, though in my experience it doesn't seem to have any significant effect, and I'm not sure how it would effect initial warm up time in any case). If you're comparing the Evo without any Delrin sleeve to the Evo with the standard sleeve setup, you are seeing more than just the presence of the sleeve versus without. Your air path is completely different (direct connect path versus through the sleeve before getting to the mouthpiece and different aerodynamics). You might consider ordering an extra Delrin sleeve or two from TV and modify them as Jam and I have. Best of both worlds, from my point of view. None the less, I'm glad to hear you're getting great results, and that you're happy.
OF
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
Yup, for sure. "Conflicting results" sums at least part of it up, there's clues in there perhaps, but also perhaps perception issues. When we have facts that don't fit the theory, time for a new theory (pretty rare in science...). Otherwise, observations that don't fit need to become facts first.....often not a trivial task. Figuring out what's going on comes before why? Or is it a chicken and egg thing?
OF: There's still something we're all missing. Or at least I am. I have three different Delrin sleeves, with and without UFOs, two different 6v Evo cores, and six red O-Rings. I can't seem to get even reasonable results when I am using the Evo as designed, with the Delrin sleeve holding the mouthpiece. I'm not as driven anymore to figure out why I can't get the standard Evo-with-sleeve to work, since I have it working to my satisfaction via the direct connect method. (I'm still curious though
That said, I use a modified Delrin sleeve now (end chopped off, mouthpiece connecting directly to the core), and I see absolutely no difference with it on or off, in terms of how long the warm up time from cold is, how hot the core gets (subjectively), or how well the vaporization goes (e.g., how thick the clouds are, how many hits from a load, how much battery is being used, etc.). Using the modified sleeve has a positive effect on my fingers, the heat radiating to my face, and it has a nice look, but I don't see much to indicate any change to the laws of physics.
Agreed. Lots of bits not fitting real well as yet. But maybe it doesn't have to, surely what works well for one guy is enough for him. I'm OK with that. Just because I wasn't able to get the same huge improvements from packing, screens and tube removal others have reported doesn't mean it's not real for them and a good thing. Some of it makes no sense at all to me like removing insulation speeding up heating. As you say, at most it can leave it unchanged.
In the end, perhaps, we should just give credit to this being a very versatile device of simple design built very well and encourage each other to explore how that best fits them? Avoiding safety and other such problems of course; in the end it's just a tool and the craftsman using it should be the focus?
OF
The sleeve could slow down initial warm up because of the additional thermal mass involved. With the sleeve on it doesn't start hitting good till the sleeve gets hot too. Also might be getting some air leakage as the sleeve expands when heated. Mine is extremely loose at the end of a session. The sleeve definatly cuts down on warm up time for recurring hits but requires a little extra patience on initial draw.
TheDudeNextDoor
Abiding
I think the main issue has to be air loss. With the mouthpiece connected directly to the stem, ALL the air is drawn through the heating core. With the delrin sleeve installed, even with the o-ring, we must be getting some air drawing through the sleeve rather than through the heating element, hence weaker hits. I just feel that has to be the major difference. I would love to see a direct connect mouthpiece added to the sleeve so that when you slip the sleeve over the stem, it makes direct contact with the mouth of the stem.
Vape N Bake
Disturbed
I removed the ufo and replaced it with a screen. Abv gets nice and dark and I see vapor on ever hit till the load is spent. Not huge clouds but this setup is very consistent.
marduk
daydreamer
So I've gone the direct connect route with my Smooth Flow and agree that the experience is superior. Should I be concerned about the SF O-ring not being rated for higher temps like the orange O-ring on the outside of the cart? I read somewhere on one of the TV threads about degradation of someone's O-ring... don't know if that was heat-related or due to some other issue.
Also, can I make a request for two EVO accessories, Thermovape?
1st -- a "headless" teflon insulator for the EVO so we don't have to hack into the stock insulator
2nd -- an insert like the Vapor Stone from Health Stone Glass so we can vape bubble without having to deal with sandwiching
http://aqualabtechnologies.com/conc...alth-stone-glass-replacement-vapor-stone.html
Also, can I make a request for two EVO accessories, Thermovape?
1st -- a "headless" teflon insulator for the EVO so we don't have to hack into the stock insulator
2nd -- an insert like the Vapor Stone from Health Stone Glass so we can vape bubble without having to deal with sandwiching
http://aqualabtechnologies.com/conc...alth-stone-glass-replacement-vapor-stone.html
OF
Well-Known Member
I agree both times. It could, but evidently doesn't if the second statement is true (which I think it is). There's a lot of factors in play with what's going on with heat here, I don't pretend to understand them all, but it seems pretty clear to me that thermal conductivity being very low is dominating this part. The very fact that more heat is waiting a bit later says it didn't go anywhere.
Another interesting idea, but one subject to easy experiment. If you have any of the adapters that don't work without filing notches in them it's easy to plug up the vents if you haven't filed the notches yet. There is a very minor leak when I just put one on but it doesn't seem to be at the fitting, I think it's coming in the base plug actually. Very minor and of course always the same with or without the heat shield. The o-ring is definitely doing a good job sealing. Here, run this experiment yourself. Use it as designed but reverse the cart. That is stick the threaded end in first so the mouth sticks out the bottom and the o-ring holds it in. Suck on the mouthpiece and plug the open end of the cart with your finger. No leaks, right? The two o-rings at each end (mouthpiece and cart) have sealed the tube completely (as o-rings should in such cases).
Something is different it seems, but I doubt this is it either.
Sounds good to me. The UFO was put there as a self cleaning screen replacement anyway, if you're OK with cleaning it and it works for you I see no reason at all not to. Results are what counts here I think.
In the end we all hope for satisfaction with our purchases. That's probably the best measure. IMO the maker has that goal in mind, and used it as a guide through all the design decisions on the way to a final product. Since one can't 'be all things to all people', they sought to be best for the most? Compromises and changes were made to that end that might not serve some individuals as well as others. What works better for one guy might not for the next?
OF
VaporBoxed
Baked
Woah, i just had a pretty bad experience with my TV evo. The new UFO mod melted my mouthpiece.
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
How many back to back bowls did you manage before that happened? I have only minor deformation on the bottom of mine...
The black delrin in the mouthpieces from delta9 melts at a lower temperature than the TV mouthpiece delrin, don't ask how I know... But the point is it's not going to get any better with delrin (highest melting point is 390F) but you should be able to dramatically reduce melting by not vaping too dark.
ctweips
Member
That kind of worries me. Do you think that a direct connection of the mouthpiece to the cart could cause this as well?
Futuretvowner
Member
Don't you guys just want to buy a vape and have it work perfectly the way it is designed by the manufacturer. Reading this thread it is ridiculous how many different modifications all of you are doing. Shouldn't this vape have been tested enough in the factory that the way it is shipped is the most efficient and effective way to use it....
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
I have not had to make a single modification to any of my ThermoVape parts (T1, Evolution, and Revolution). It works just fine for me with everything at factory default. I think people like to modify their setup regardless of how well it works from the factory. I don't think it is a slight against the manufacturer or anything like that. I think people just like to modify and tweak their setups to see what type of changes they can get to the performance.
zmurder
Well-Known Member
Modifications have been able to increase performance but only at the cost of potential (hazardous) device failure (see above). So it seems TV is trying for a balance of safety, efficiency and effectiveness.
OF
Well-Known Member
Agreed, fully. For the record, stuff it tested.....get real. I've done some of the testing on request myself. To infer otherwise points to the possibility of an different agenda IMO. Given what's commonly known, it's not ever a reasonable conjecture.
The overwhelming majority of folks seem quite happy with their gear, and are trying to customize a bit if anything. It's in our national nature perhaps? We invented Hot Rods after all.....
IMO this is a good thing, provided we're careful with it.
OF
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
Indeed OF it is in allot of peoples nature to tweak with stuff and make modifications. It is like saying that a car is bad because people like to modify it by putting on spoilers, nitrous, glowing lights, and all the other stuff they do to tweak cars.
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
The ufo remains undamaged and can easily be pushed back into teflon the cover. This was just a popular "mod" because a user mentioned it really helped them wring the performance out of their evo.
It has also helped me hone my technique, and realize I should add a screen or two to keep the load in the sweet spot, but I will probably reassemble the teflon top eventually with a new mouthpiece just to keep it nice and cool.
VaporBoxed
Baked
I did one bowl. This vape works perfectly the way the manufacturer intends it to work. I made a modification and paid the price. The ufo got hot enough to melt the mouthpiece onto it. My delrin cover no longer has a ufo, other than that everything is working as it should.