Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud

This was already discussed...your time is spot on pretty much until the light goes green. Then most have concluded it operates even better after more warmup. Apparently there are many factors, such as ambient temperature, etc.

I have been using my cloud a lot more than I thought I would. Been having many multi-person sessions with it. It seems like there is no rebound time. It can be passed and hit as fast or faster than a bong and lighter. I am really happy with it, certainly my favorite vape.

I have noticed two things that could pose an annoyance/problem for some.

1: at full temp the unit gets too hot to hold comfortably. I mean HOT. Though at low settings it is fine.

2: even at full temp my abv still comes out lighter than my Solo at #7, perhaps even lighter than my rockzap.

THCMuscle said:

I have been using my cloud a lot more than I thought I would. Been having many multi-person sessions with it. It seems like there is no rebound time. It can be passed and hit as fast or faster than a bong and lighter. I am really happy with it, certainly my favorite vape.

I have noticed two things that could pose an annoyance/problem for some.

1: at full temp the unit gets too hot to hold comfortably. I mean HOT. Though at low settings it is fine.

2: even at full temp my abv still comes out lighter than my Solo at #7, perhaps even lighter than my rockzap.

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Light ABV? Does that indicate a not-so-thorough extraction of goodies?

any updates of the 220V issues?

ili said:

Light ABV? Does that indicate a not-so-thorough extraction of goodies?

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I think it indicates overall lower temp of the Cloud. It makes underpressure in the ELB while you draw decreasing the boiling point of goodies so it can extract more with lower temperature. It doesn't need to cook to almost black to extract massively. For example the "opposite", the MFLB doesn't make underpressure and doesn't produce huge thermal mass, so it need relative high temperatures to extract satisfying vapor.

But I've already seen some pics of dark ABV, so that unit could be a bit cold.

Seek said:

I think it indicates overall lower temp of the Cloud. It makes underpressure in the ELB while you draw decreasing the boiling point of goodies so it can extract more with lower temperature. It doesn't need to cook to almost black to extract massively. For example the "opposite", the MFLB doesn't make underpressure and doesn't produce huge thermal mass, so it need relative high temperatures to extract satisfying vapor.

But I've already seen some pics of dark ABV, so that unit could be a bit cold.

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I understand this but I meant to make the comparison with the Solo's ABV which is mostly convection like the Cloud. It produces a deep brown ABV and logic tells me it has evaporated most of what is in there. When the ABV is lighter coloured it means there still is juice in that plant and it NEEDS to be extracted in my lungs! I hope temp differences in Cloud will be eliminated in the future and hopefully before my Cloud reaches Europe... If the differences are solely due to the hole of the glass tube underneath, then I hope SM and the other guys find a way to make that hole with a consistent opening, one that can give both low temps and just-before-combustion temps...

EDIT: and for those who will say that the Solo is also conduction, it's VERY partially conduction and it depends on whether you leave the stem in between hits or you remove before finishing the hit and empty and cool down the tube to finish the draw... All convection vaporisers are a bit conduction and even more infrared.

THCMuscle said:

I have noticed two things that could pose an annoyance/problem for some.

1: at full temp the unit gets too hot to hold comfortably. I mean HOT. Though at low settings it is fine.

2: even at full temp my abv still comes out lighter than my Solo at #7, perhaps even lighter than my rockzap.

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This is a little bit perplexing... your unit does get very HOT, yet the ABV comes out light? We're having this discussion in the minivap thread...resulting blonde ABV. Have you tried vaping your Cloud ABV with another vape to see if it produces any vapour? There have been posts of pretty roasted ABV from the Cloud, so something isn't adding up.

ili said:

EDIT: and for those who will say that the Solo is also conduction, it's VERY partially conduction and it depends on whether you leave the stem in between hits or you remove before finishing the hit and empty and cool down the tube to finish the draw... All convection vaporisers are a bit conduction and even more infrared.

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If you leave the stem in it becomes apparent real fast that it's not just very partially conduction. I don't even wanna think about how many grams i've lost to conduction

This discussion about ABV color is quite interesting to me ...

THCMuscle said:

2: even at full temp my abv still comes out lighter than my Solo at #7, perhaps even lighter than my rockzap.

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ili said:

When the ABV is lighter coloured it means there still is juice in that plant

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maybe a tiny bit, but most of the cannabinoids are in the trichomes which are ON the plant, not IN the plant. So it should be possible to fully extract the meds without darkening the ABV.

when i look at all the vapes that darken the ABV, they all have an infrared component -- that is, the herb is inserted into the heater, or into a structure that is emitting heat, i.e. thermal radiant energy.

With the Cloud, the herb is at the end of the heater, so for sure most of the thermal energy is coming from the moving air stream, rather than radiating from the heater element. Only if the temp is set high enough to get the ELB hot from hot glass contact would the ABV darken.

the question i have is: when the ABV does get dark, what else is being extracted from the herb BESIDES the cannabinoids.

Seek said:

It makes underpressure in the ELB while you draw decreasing the boiling point of goodies so it can extract more with lower temperature. It doesn't need to cook to almost black to extract massively. For example the "opposite", the MFLB doesn't make underpressure and doesn't produce huge thermal mass, so it need relative high temperatures to extract satisfying vapor.

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is this true? i never thought of that, but its an ingenious way to get a better extraction while preserving the taste!

thanks for commenting!

That's a great question Hippie. Just need a sober participant to vape the lighter ABV in another vaporizer that allows for a bit of that conduction, and see what the result is.

Well, the airpath design must create some underpressure in the ELB (the hole) and more as hard you draw. But don't know to how much extent. Maybe it is insignificant, but I think I've read this somewhere in the thread. Don't know if it was official. And for most normal materials underpressure lowers boiling point.

I use the svt from vriptech to check for complete extraction. rub abv between thumb and forefinger if it is not oily extraction is complete. Last I heard chlorophyll doesn't get you high. I get complete extraction at 9 o'clock. Takes a few more hits but I like the buzz better. how hot would your oven get left on for hours at four hundred degrees Fahrenheit. I turn mine off after I get medicated only takes 5-10 min to cool down and 5 min to heat up when I need it.

Seek said:

Well, the airpath design must create some underpressure in the ELB (the hole) and more as hard you draw. But don't know to how much extent. Maybe it is insignificant, but I think I've read this somewhere in the thread. Don't know if it was official. And for most normal materials underpressure lowers boiling point.

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it's funny i never connected the dots... I think you are possibly right and if so they are using some serious physics to bring advanced vapor to us. it would be cool to hear from SM or PN on the subject

at home I don't use any other vape. only the portable niche this thing cannot fill for me.

Seek said:

Well, the airpath design must create some underpressure in the ELB (the hole) and more as hard you draw. But don't know to how much extent. Maybe it is insignificant, but I think I've read this somewhere in the thread. Don't know if it was official. And for most normal materials underpressure lowers boiling point.

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You're right. (And, yes, this was discussed earlier - in the previous thread). The Cloud achieves its efficiency through the combination of air turbulence and pressure change in the ELB. The pressure change has the same effect as higher altitude (like with baking), i.e., the boiling point is lowered and therefore the same result is obtained with lower temp.

vape4life said:

If you leave the stem in it becomes apparent real fast that it's not just very partially conduction. I don't even wanna think about how many grams i've lost to conduction

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yeap, that's exactly what I meant... I use my Solo by taking a hit, taking the stem out while inhaling and thus empty the stem and cooling everything, then I replace the stem leave for some secs and draw again etc. This way almost no conduction takes place and the herbs last a lot longer and the taste is preserved for a longer time.

Hippie Dickie said:

maybe a tiny bit, but most of the cannabinoids are in the trichomes which are ON the plant, not IN the plant. So it should be possible to fully extract the meds without darkening the ABV.

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I agree Hippie Dickie, but as we also don't know much about the full spectrum of substances in ANY plant, cannabis included, we can't be sure of all the positive and negative effects these have for us. Who knows, maybe what's inside is even more beneficial... And as human knowledge is so tiny compared to all the info out there in nature, I prefer to try to get EVERYTHING that plant has in there and let history decide if it was ok or not. If a had an abundance of plants I would sure prefer juicing for the health aspect and oil (the Rick Simpson way) for both medical and recreational use. Vaping would be number 3 from a health point of view...
About the cannabinoids... Do we know for sure how much is out of the plant and how much inside as a percentage? If it's less than 5% then I guess it's not so important to get the ABV dark. If it's more and you have minimal quantities of weed, then EVERY BIT counts!

Hippie Dickie said:

With the Cloud, the herb is at the end of the heater, so for sure most of the thermal energy is coming from the moving air stream, rather than radiating from the heater element. Only if the temp is set high enough to get the ELB hot from hot glass contact would the ABV darken.

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What about the hot air? Doesn't it heat the ELB? If yes (apparently yes), then the ELB is also radiating a lot of this heat, as far as I can understand... Isn't it? What's the difference if it's glass or A mesh SS cage that is heated? They both get hot and they both radiate. If I am wrong, maybe someone can explain what's the difference?

jackstraw62 said:

Last I heard chlorophyll doesn't get you high.

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I wonder at what temps chlorophyll is evaporated if evaporated at all... If it is, well, it doesn't get you high, but I guess nothing is wrong with some more of that chloro in our system, we get a lot anyway with veggies.


As a final note, ok maybe the underpressure lowers the boiling point (I wonder if that happens in a Solo bowl too...), but at what extend? Do the cannabinoids that evap at 210-230 Celcious get enough heat?

Hippie Dickie said:

This discussion about ABV color is quite interesting to me ...



the question i have is: when the ABV does get dark, what else is being extracted from the herb BESIDES the cannabinoids.

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Excellent question.

I am actually happier with my abv being lighter than darker. It may be completely anecdotal/intuitive but I view lighter/less dark herb as an indication that less things have been added to my lungs. The Cloud gets me so blitzed at full temp, I would be happy no matter what the herb looks like, though I prefer greener ABV as long as I get the effects I desire.

My thinking on the subject of light/dark abv is this; there is an obvious distinction between combustion and vaporizing, however it is evident that as heat increases more actives are released (eventually progressing to combustion/carcinogens). Assuming that I am getting the effects I want, I prefer to have as low temperature and lightest colored herb post-session as possible. The cloud is wonderful at achieving this. If I never turned my cloud above 10'oclock (40%) I would be perfectly happy.


When my cloud is turned all the way down (7oclock) my herb is hard to distinguish from fresh ground.

@THCMuscle ... i think you're right on.

ili said:

About the cannabinoids... Do we know for sure how much is out of the plant and how much inside as a percentage? If it's less than 5% then I guess it's not so important to get the ABV dark. If it's more and you have minimal quantities of weed, then EVERY BIT counts

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This is the conclusion of one of the best papers written on THC in the plant:

THC Accumulation in the glands of cannabis said:

CONCLUSIONS

1. THC accumulated in abundance in the secretory cavity where it was associated with the: a) cell walls, b ) surface feature of secretory vesicles, c) fibrillar material released from disc cell wall, and d) cuticle. It was not associated with the content of the secretory vesicles. The association of THC with structural components, particularly the wall, fibrillar matrix and surface feature of vesicles, suggests that it may be chemically bound to them rather than being free in the cavity. If THC and other cannabinoids are bound to components in the cavity, their presence and movement may require a source of energy in the cavity. Additional studies are necessary to determine their bound or free status.

2. Little or no THC was detected in the cytoplasm of the disc cells. This suggests that the terpene and phenol precursors, which must occur in the disc cells at some interval, may form the cannabinoids at the surface of the plasma membrane, or in the cell wall facing the secretory cavity.

3. Some THC was present in the cell walls of other cells. Genes for cannabinoid synthesis are present in all cells of the plant, but tissues other than glands produce low levels of these compounds.

4. Reduction or elimination of glands by mutation procedures will reduce significantly the quantity of THC in the plant. However, the pathway for cannabinoid synthesis is controlled genetically: glands are specialized to synthesize high levels of cannabinoids. Thus, a glandless plant can be expected to synthesize very low levels of cannabinoids. We do not know the roles of cannabinoids in the glands. They may be involved in some way with "protection", or other role. The absence of glands may or may not alter the functional role. Since other cells also synthesize these compounds, at very low levels, the quantity may be sufficient to perform the functional role. Therefore, a glandless mutant(s) would serve our purpose to reduce the THC concentration for utilization of such strains in the hemp industry.

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Here's the link to the full article -- a great read:
http://www.hempreport.com/issues/17/malbody17.html

so, yeah, light color ABV is okay if vaporization is done right.

Hey, why hasn't anybody tried to fill a bag with the Cloud. i bet the vapor would be so dense you could slice open the bag and carve out pieces of vapor cake.

I sure hope I 've got the money when my turn/mail comes and I promise you all I 'll become the best investigator of the subtle differences in ABV colour, taste and effects!

thc vaporizes at its bp of 315f(157c) . bad things start to appear at 185c(according to maps study) benzene among others. at 9 i think i am around 315-320(not sure) but I feel that is a good guess judging on the buzz that I get. Personally I don't see the need to go higher even the bubble I use extracts well at 9 oclock . I can put a small chunk of hash in the elb (no bud) and get clouds might have to break it up after a few hits but the taste is really nice. I am definitely a low temp vaporist I don't like the effects of some of the higher boilers.

Gotta say I'm LOVING the cloud, so much I made this funy video, please watch!

After two bowls of Pinneaple Kush this is what I produced last night:

Nosferatu said:

Gotta say I'm LOVING the cloud, so much I made this funy video, please watch!

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i love it. nice vid played it without soundtrack subtitles were awesome.

Nosferatu said:

Gotta say I'm LOVING the cloud, so much I made this funy video, please watch!

After two bowls of Pinneaple Kush this is what I produced last night:

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So funny, so true. I've enjoyed laughing at the crybabyism in this thread and this ties it all together. Nice one.

What would happen to weed if placed in a vacume? Would the essential compounds be released at room or very low temp?