Discontinued Purple-Days Vaporizer

lwien said:

Rick, believe me, I am VERY well versed in marketing techniques, but one doesn't have to go 2 and half months out to accomplish a scarcity ploy, for less than half of that would be all that is needed and for you even implying that a fellow vape manufacturer would stoop to those deceptive marketing tactics here at FC is truly bothersome and hitting waaaay below the belt.

I'm not a mod here, but if I were, I would put a stop to this shit. And if the said vape manufacturers couldn't behave themselves, I would give them a temporary ban, much like that has been done with other members here. Just because one is a manufacturer should not place them above the same rules and behavior that others are held to.

Mod note: Public discussions of staff decisions are not permitted on the site. If you have any concerns or queries relating to a staff decision, please take it up in private with a member of the site administration team
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/misc.php?action=rules

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And with this warning regarding my post above, I am outta here. If I can't make a very sane suggestion in attempting to end this PD/MZ feud without a warning such as this, than this is becoming a forum that I can no longer participate in.

I bid adieu. FC has been a tremendous site for vaporizer information and it has served this community well. I hope that, in the past, I have been able to contribute to that.

I will be checking in now and again, but there will be no more posts from me.

Take care guys. Wish ya all the best.

Mod note: Management has cut you a lot of slack with many of your posts that were inappropriate as far as baiting other members who made posts that were also inappropriate, off topic, etc. You've been a good poster overall, and have generally tried to obey the rules and keep threads on track. But you can't have it both ways. You express a wish for more moderation to keep things civil, but then complain when we do exactly that.

it has become a police state as of late, lwien

Purple-Days said:

I didn't imply that at all, and even went and got the post #s to show when and by whom the ban was impossed. Yes all those posts were by moderators, go check. And as you said and I said Rick is all for free speech. My point was there is no such thing as 'free speech'.

And the 'please don't post pics' in the show your wood thread was because the thread was started with the deliberate attempt by the OP to stir up shit (check his first post), which he delights in doing, check to see why he was banned for a complete view of his personality or personalities.

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Here are your words, Tom.

The use of lead-free solder, and the reference to it, in a thread that claims no concern for lead in a vape? Then, nobody is allowed to talk about lead? Wait, isn't that a bit hypocritical? Come on...

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I clearly asked for the posts where Rick said lead wasn't a concern and where he placed a ban on talk of lead.

There is no hypocrisy if the ban you refer to is imposed by the moderators. There is hypocrisy if the ban is imposed by Rick. So I don't see how you could have been talking about the mods.


And as for stirring shit.

Purple-Days said:

Constant power... 'cept going to the ride and back.

Reply to that 'other' thread...
"silver based no lead solder..."

Our solder is 97% Tin, and 3% Silver, only. Fully certified RoHS compliant. Just as all our components are. We maintain an open book on our parts order history. If Lead-Free wasn't important why mention it? (post #389 in that thread)

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This comment had nothing to do with the conversation. Why throw that in? It is an obvious jab, Tom. An unprovoked jab. There seems to be a double standard (not referring to FC). When someone with a Zap says something that is perceived as starting shit (and sometimes it is, no doubt), you and other PD owners don't hesitate to call them on it. But when you make a comment like the one above, or a PD owner posts a picture of a t-shirt with lead on it (referring to the MZ), there is silence. In fact, when he posted that picture you said nothing. When another picture of a t-shirt (referencing the PD in an unflattering way) was posted in reply to the first, you immediately responded. How about some consistency?

reece said:

Purple-Days said:

I didn't imply that at all, and even went and got the post #s to show when and by whom the ban was impossed. Yes all those posts were by moderators, go check. And as you said and I said Rick is all for free speech. My point was there is no such thing as 'free speech'.

And the 'please don't post pics' in the show your wood thread was because the thread was started with the deliberate attempt by the OP to stir up shit (check his first post), which he delights in doing, check to see why he was banned for a complete view of his personality or personalities.

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Here are your words, Tom.

The use of lead-free solder, and the reference to it, in a thread that claims no concern for lead in a vape? Then, nobody is allowed to talk about lead? Wait, isn't that a bit hypocritical? Come on...

Click to expand...

I clearly asked for the posts where Rick said lead wasn't a concern and where he placed a ban on talk of lead.

There is no hypocrisy if the ban you refer to is imposed by the moderators. There is hypocrisy if the ban is imposed by Rick. So I don't see how you could have been talking about the mods.


And as for stirring shit.

Purple-Days said:

Constant power... 'cept going to the ride and back.

Reply to that 'other' thread...
"silver based no lead solder..."

Our solder is 97% Tin, and 3% Silver, only. Fully certified RoHS compliant. Just as all our components are. We maintain an open book on our parts order history. If Lead-Free wasn't important why mention it? (post #389 in that thread)

Click to expand...

This comment had nothing to do with the conversation. Why throw that in? It is an obvious jab, Tom. An unprovoked jab. There seems to be a double standard (not referring to FC). When someone with a Zap says something that is perceived as starting shit (and sometimes it is, no doubt), you and other PD owners don't hesitate to call them on it. But when you make a comment like the one above, or a PD owner posts a picture of a t-shirt with lead on it (referring to the MZ), there is silence. In fact, when he posted that picture you said nothing. When another picture of a t-shirt (referencing the PD in an unflattering way) was posted in reply to the first, you immediately responded. How about some consistency?

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well said

dadesign said:

it has become a police state as of late, lwien

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Of late? You mean like the last 12 hours or so? Your opinion shows that you're really naive about forums. "Of late" management has been getting a lot of criticism about things getting out of hand, going too far, etc. There are reasons why this forum has evolved as it has. I'm not going to post a lengthy explanation. For a good while we only had one rule- be nice- and it was sufficient. As more people joined we had to add more rules. That's the way it goes with any forum as it grows. We have a small staff, and that's normally sufficient. But we can't catch every transgression immediately or make policy changes overnight.

Your opinion that we've become a police state is a perfect example that you can't meet everyone's expectations. Of the members that express an opinion, some think we're too strict and others think we're too slack. You're also publicly criticising staff decisions as far as the way the forum is being moderated, after just reading that rule in a previous post. If you don't think your comment applies to that rule, I'm telling you it does, and you'd better pay close attention the rules in the future. If you're in the slightest doubt about the content you intend to post, then don't post it.

We haven't been keeping an exact account of warnings, temporary bannings, etc. but I can tell you that if we were, you'd be maxed out.

---------------

It's understandable that friction has arisen concerning these two similar vapes, with both builders posting on the forum. No other forum allows vape manufacturers, as well as dealers who aren't site sponsors to post. There are benefits to that for the forum, the builders and dealers, and the members. It's unknown territory though, and some expect smooth sailing with no problems.

I don't know what offcial changes we're going to make, if any, to put boundaries in place to stop the friction here. But meanwhile I suggest that everyone stop trying to 'fix' the people and perceived problems involved. It just adds to the problems. It's an easy task to push the 'close topic' button. I'll do that if necessary.

max said:

dadesign said:

it has become a police state as of late, lwien

Click to expand...

Of late? You mean like the last 12 hours or so? Your opinion shows that you're really naive about forums. "Of late" management has been getting a lot of criticism about things getting out of hand, going too far, etc. There are reasons why this forum has evolved as it has. I'm not going to post a lengthy explanation. For a good while we only had one rule- be nice- and it was sufficient. As more people joined we had to add more rules. That's the way it goes with any forum as it grows. We have a small staff, and that's normally sufficient. But we can't catch every transgression immediately or make policy changes overnight.

Your opinion that we've become a police state is a perfect example that you can't meet everyone's expectations. Of the members that express an opinion, some think we're too strict and others think we're too slack. You're also publicly criticising staff decisions as far as the way the forum is being moderated, after just reading that rule in a previous post. If you don't think your comment applies to that rule, I'm telling you it does, and you'd better pay close attention the rules in the future. If you're in the slightest doubt about the content you intend to post, then don't post it.

We haven't been keeping an exact account of warnings, temporary bannings, etc. but I can tell you that if we were, you'd be maxed out.

---------------

It's understandable that friction has arisen concerning these two similar vapes, with both builders posting on the forum. No other forum allows vape manufacturers, as well as dealers who aren't site sponsors to post. There are benefits to that for the forum, the builders and dealers, and the members. It's unknown territory though, and some expect smooth sailing with no problems.

I don't know what offcial changes we're going to make, if any, to put boundaries in place to stop the friction here. But meanwhile I suggest that everyone stop trying to 'fix' the people and perceived problems involved. It just adds to the problems. It's an easy task to push the 'close topic' button. I'll do that if necessary.

Click to expand...

so you are saying just me saying it is becoming a police state...I have broke several rules....i think that is taking a little too literal...if I said that that the government sucks, which is a pretty broad statement, do I get a jail sentence for that..i realize it is a tough job to moderate and I am not knocking it other then it seems as you stated as of late is in 12 hours r what ever. just alot more moderation is all it means. I am not planning on overthrowing the forum or thread jacking(what ever that amounts to now)

I came to this forum two weeks ago because I saw so much amazing information about vaporizing and the beautifully crafted devices that were on display in each their own respective threads. There are reviews, factual specs, reports of material composition, air/vapor density, air path flow, ergonomic ratings, fuck-you-upness scales, evaluations of stealth, warm up time, modifications, combinations, integrations, possibility-of-use situations, and even likelihood of conflagration.
Other resources I've found are ALL individual, question based, often opinionated first hand reports posted in a second rate off shoot forum.
FC is a GRAIL of vape information, one I wish I'd found last year when I bought my first vape, a year and a half ago when I started smoking, or even two years ago when I was 18 (When I wish I had started smoking.)

Now much of what I saw to start out with fit into one of three categories:
1-Factual information users had posted about the device they were talking about, with details to salve any suspicion of an opinion
2-First hand experiences and their educated opinions based on a large degree of personal use, almost exclusively in response to a question that was asking for just such an opinion.
3-Fun mini conversations about stories or some sort of contact-width

When I saw the MZ-PD scenario I was fascinated, as they are equal products with such subtle differences that actually result in a reasonably distinct experience in use, or so I gather. With all the fact stating about each device, type "1" mentioned, opinions started seeping in. And not of the "2" type. Opinions of a comparative sense, ones that offered absolutely no constructive information.

Comparing these two devices without conflict is a painfully simple thing:
Different wood, different materials, slightly different airway design. FACTS. Though it seems a large part of this stupidity started from the brass argument, it seems quite necessary to mention that the offering of an opinion is helpful; the dispute over another's opinion is rude and damaging to the search of information. The brass argument has no factual base, YET, and until it does there are only preference based differences between these two units. And that means likes or dislikes should be treated as such: just LIKES and DISLIKES, not FACTS.

Granted with both manufactures having what was, and hopefully still is, a good relationship and posting on the same review based site, conflicting mindsets were likely to arise. The scenario is quite unique, with both manufactures being immensely helpful in the research and tips in regard to their products. However more appreciation for the weight of their respective words on this forum would only help the situation, coupled with less comparative fact stating: "This doesn't contain this"-->"This only contains this", "This is okay to use"-->"This is regarded as a safe thing to use". Leave the opinion and subsequent preference making to be formed solely on facts gathered by the buyer, not by the seller.

Seems like dispute over rules also started to rise as well, but hey, with new people and more information, more regulation is inevitable; there is a weeding process to any regulatory system. Just remember that this weeding process is pretty weed-influenced, and is therefore probably going to be pretty mellow and fair

TL;DR
I really hope FC doesn't start acting like all the other forums that wish they were FC. Or god forbid, like myspace.


Hope some of that was appreciated by anyone who read it all,



To stay a tiny percent on topic, how much does the wood grain in the PD vary?

^ Great post Sneezy.

I always thought Vermont was a neat State.
I second Vapo.

dadesign said:

max said:

dadesign said:

it has become a police state as of late, lwien

Click to expand...

Of late? You mean like the last 12 hours or so? Your opinion shows that you're really naive about forums. "Of late" management has been getting a lot of criticism about things getting out of hand, going too far, etc. There are reasons why this forum has evolved as it has. I'm not going to post a lengthy explanation. For a good while we only had one rule- be nice- and it was sufficient. As more people joined we had to add more rules. That's the way it goes with any forum as it grows. We have a small staff, and that's normally sufficient. But we can't catch every transgression immediately or make policy changes overnight.

Your opinion that we've become a police state is a perfect example that you can't meet everyone's expectations. Of the members that express an opinion, some think we're too strict and others think we're too slack. You're also publicly criticising staff decisions as far as the way the forum is being moderated, after just reading that rule in a previous post. If you don't think your comment applies to that rule, I'm telling you it does, and you'd better pay close attention the rules in the future. If you're in the slightest doubt about the content you intend to post, then don't post it.

We haven't been keeping an exact account of warnings, temporary bannings, etc. but I can tell you that if we were, you'd be maxed out.

---------------

It's understandable that friction has arisen concerning these two similar vapes, with both builders posting on the forum. No other forum allows vape manufacturers, as well as dealers who aren't site sponsors to post. There are benefits to that for the forum, the builders and dealers, and the members. It's unknown territory though, and some expect smooth sailing with no problems.

I don't know what offcial changes we're going to make, if any, to put boundaries in place to stop the friction here. But meanwhile I suggest that everyone stop trying to 'fix' the people and perceived problems involved. It just adds to the problems. It's an easy task to push the 'close topic' button. I'll do that if necessary.

Click to expand...

so you are saying just me saying it is becoming a police state...I have broke several rules....i think that is taking a little too literal...if I said that that the government sucks, which is a pretty broad statement, do I get a jail sentence for that..i realize it is a tough job to moderate and I am not knocking it other then it seems as you stated as of late is in 12 hours r what ever. just alot more moderation is all it means. I am not planning on overthrowing the forum or thread jacking(what ever that amounts to now)

Click to expand...

I'll spell out the rule, again. "Public discussions of staff decisions are not permitted on the site. If you have any concerns or queries relating to a staff decision, please take it up in private with a member of the site administration team."Do you really not understand that you just violated that that rule, again, with your post? Part of the reason for the rule is to prevent exactly this type of discourse in the threads. I sincerely hope you understand this rule, and make no reply on this subject, since that would be yet another violation of the rule. In the real world, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Here, we will make an effort to make sure the rules are understood, but we're not going to give endless warnings.

You know, I was thinking of leaving this forum, like others have. Others who have contributed to the forum in so many ways, on many subjects, and spread their knowledge and laughter.

FUCK that.





You can't argue with science.

Thanks Vapo, Rick
Vermont is a pretty neat place; my heart will always be in that tiny little green state

So Tom, would you be able to throw up an estimate on how much the PD's wood grain varies? I've seen some great pictures on your site; one with very nice distinct grain lines and one with an almost uniform, almost fabric-y grain, among others.
By chance would you happen to have any pictures of any particularly fantastic Cherry grains from units past?

That's hard to answer Sneezy. Beauty is skin deep. And 'in the eye of the beholder'.

Our Kiln Dried Cherry (a renewable resource) comes to us in slabs of about 24 to 36 PDs each and I get about 4 slabs at a shout. Each slab is of course different. The last four had two slabs with figure and the other two not. And with our current lead time, orders today, will be made from wood I haven't seen yet.

Our supplier has provided us with consistently top quality wood and we enjoy dealing with them. That's also one of the beauties of KD Cherry, it is pretty consistent slab after slab.

Too true, and I do tend to ask ambiguous questions, its almost a personality trait for me
The Cherry you employ is truly a nice wood to use from all aspects it seems. Now I remember you mentioning that the Cerry will darken with age; is that a quality of the Buzz butter application, or a natural aging of the wood?
In either case I look forward to getting my hands on some o' dat butter; my vaporstar and vaporgenie would appreciate a coating or two themselves methinks

The darkening is a natural trait of American Cherry. It is due to the wood's reaction to oxygen. Even the oldest darkest cherry is light and fresh looking just below the surface.

Thank you so much Tom for that pic. up there. The arguments are OVER....even I don't want to hear about it anymore.

Can we get back to vaporizing? and yo, rick, get outta the PD thread. No more man....no more.

.....back to the grind

Took a Grapple (grape flavored apple) and cut out a small mouth piece hole, then shoved in my bushing GONG adapter into one side of the grapple. That way I could easily insert and take out the pd stem or vhw bowl.

Also gives quite the tasty snack at the end Even if the apple absorbs ANY thc...it all gets munched at the end anyhow.

Tom, any problem with storing the PD on it's side while on? I have a safe spot to put it in, but it will only fit laying on it's side.

Purple-Days:

Regarding the "20th Century Design" photograph showing brass and steel PD diffusers, are these the main heaters (heat sinks/exchangers)? Or are these accessory (slip on top) aromatherapy diffusers?

Regarding what I presume is the current 72-finned stainless steel heat sink/exchanger, it looks as though (very simplistically stated) it has large and small washers/spacers (or equivalent) fitted around a central air flow pipe, to which I presume the resistor (heating element) is attached.

Can you post a bottom view picture of the "diffuser?" Is there anything to see inside? What happens within the PD heater? Is the air flowing around fins within the diffuser (what we can't see), or does it flow around the outside? Does the air pass over and contact all 72 fins, or are some fins/washers (as it looks in the picture) abutted together (increasing the heat sink/exchanger mass)?

On it's side? well.. it's not made to be left like that, the heat is intended to rise ouT of the central hole and move upwards as convection would have it do naturally. Storing for extended periods in a side position will inevitably heat the wood to a greater degree than intended and that isn't no good for the wood. They are meant to be used in and upright position when resting.

Yeah maybe we can really drop it, after I answer Vape999.

No those aren't the aroma diffusers. We use a simple, utilitarian, solid wrought copper end cap for 1/2" plumbing* as an aroma diffuser cup.

Those are the heat sinks. The guts. The central pipe (tube) in each houses the resistor. The heat migrates throughout the mass of each. The heat is then exchanged to the airflow as it passes over the heat exchanger mass. One has a simple geometry, the other doesn't.

But that's not all...

Heat exchanger to outer wall tolerance is much tighter in a PD,
creating more turbulence along the path.
All that surface area, of the 72 black fins, and the 5 individual heat sinks
(10 planes plus their ridged perimeters)
is exposed to the air flow.


One other point. I experimented with top hole size, and the number of holes, before settling on the right combination. From the first, I knew fewer holes were needed and went from 4 to 3 to 2. It just works better to create turbulence and limit the air flow to the right amount. Many have mentioned the side effect of a faint whistle, too, from the sharp right angle of the air-path. That faint whistle is an audible signal of air speed. Serendipity.

Yes, Vape999, most practical engineering, uses 'off the shelf'* materials or components, whenever available. Big advantages over machining that mass and fins. Cost of the tooling would be the first. Not that the tools I use for working the stainless are cheap. But you see what I mean, no need to re-invent the wheel when you can buy it off the shelf. Oh, and the 100% 304 stainless hardware even comes RoHS certified.

How are you coming with the copper and ceramics project? As I went further blind I lost track of a lot of threads, it seemed like a decent approach. That was you, wasn't it? Any luck?

Anyway the fins just made sense from the beginning, and as a fan of old airplanes, 4 air cooled VW Beetles, and ex-motorcycle (air cooled) owner the radial fin design just seemed right. It just sorta came to me, but the shape was a familiar one. The crossbar and spring loading came a little while later, when I had almost given up on stainless.

BTW just for clarity ^^^,"photograph showing brass and steel PD diffusers..." We have never used brass. That is a pic of an old school design by others against our modern design.

Tom - thanks for the explanation and pictures of your design. i really enjoy seeing great engineering.

Cheers to the Bud Toaster, Mate !

Oh, and you too, I'm a fan...

Purple-Days said:

You know, I was thinking of leaving this forum, like others have. Others who have contributed to the forum in so many ways, on many subjects, and spread their knowledge and laughter.

FUCK that.

http://i34.tinypic.com/5jtbfr.jpg


http://i34.tinypic.com/a0zcio.jpg
You can't argue with science.

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ok no quarrel, while I think this is really bad, it is clear from the pictures you device is more complex. my question is from the examples you give, and my understanding of science and all are not the fins detrimental to the end result. I mean if the fins are there to dissipate heat isnt that counterproductive to what you are trying to do. I guess I dont understand why this would help instead of hurt....after seeing this it does intrigue me to know if truly the difference between the to would be enough to buy yours as well. I mean many of the people on here have more then one, for what ever reason. I know I wont sop at one either

not trying to raise a beef just want to learn, my brother seems to want one (either or)

Go away.

dadesign said:

my question is from the examples you give, and my understanding of science and all are not the fins detrimental to the end result. I mean if the fins are there to dissipate heat isnt that counterproductive to what you are trying to do.

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Simply answering your question, and not trying to continue this dispute. Yes you are trying to dissipate the heat, into the air that will be used to vaporize. The increased surface area of the fins allows for a more efficient transfer of heat energy from the metal to the air. Which allows you to transfer more heat energy in a shorter period of time and even distance. You also have to remeber the amount of heat energy and temperature are not the same. A bath tub full of 100f water has more heat energy than the flame from a candle. The added mass of the heat exchangers allows it to hold more energy although it may be at the same temperature.

Now please can we all put this behind us and move on? Both units have their differences, it is up to you to make sense of them and decide which is better for you.

hmm well that makes more sense but think the proof would be in the pudding if i got one. I would not say different but more like different paths to the same result. still it is intriguing, if would be truely more efficiant but both are amazing already.

at least the quetion was answered and yes i can be more informed now