What Percentage of the "Daily Cannabis Users" Have ADHD?

I'm working on a theory that all daily users have ADHD, what do you think?

the rest of this opinion piece is written pretty much from the stance that I'm assuming the first statement is correct....

I've been connecting dots in non-traditional ways, and it seems to me a lot of stuff about ADHD is being kept from the public, but has been used by law enforcement, government, modern PR and the media to their own ends, and held up to the public as being weak in character and "in a bad way" because of the choices they have made, not because they were *abused as children or suffer from a disability which causes a brain chemistry problem known to be associated with lots of problems.

I was recently talking to a school resource officer (cop at the high school) and he's a "true believer" (ie: being gay is a choice, pot use is not moral, ADHD people are no different from anybody else in that they have a choice every day as to what they are going to do). It made me think of when i was kicked out of high school for missing 45 days in the first semester of tenth grade. I guess in some basic ways I never recovered from that, tho I can see it much more clearly now that I know about the ADHD.

One thing's for sure, I no longer think it was the pot that caused my downfall as a teenager or young adult, it was probably just along for the ride.

So, I am wondering whether there is such intolerance of ADHD people because we're just annoying to be around, when we're not trying to control it, or whether the mis-information is the culprit. Perhaps it is Generational lies and prejudices which are being capitalized on by the government, media and hollywood?

One thing seems for sure, and that is that the war on drugs is in effect a war specifically being waged against the people who were *abused as children, who have ADHD. And, our prison system is filling up with us...more than any other country on earth. We would be lead to believe this is due to our superior detecting, but perhaps it's because we grow more ADHD kids than anywhere else on earth (because we send more people out of the house and work more hours than any other western society). As stressed parenting becomes the norm, ADHD will continue to rise, and we need to prepare the public for the bumpy ride with the truth, and counter the bad light they've framed us in.

I think we need to find a way to let the public know the truth. When little Johnny's late to school, no matter what discipline he's given, there's another reason, and it's not that he's got a weak character or makes poor choices, and we all need to think about whether we all need, or can be expected to, be held to the same measures in society given this simple truth.

And, for thousands of years, we've been able to self-medicate and grow, but this right, that was in the Commons, was "stolen" for profit by the government and breweries, and forestry companies, and we need to fight to take it back, while building sympathy among the public, by building awareness about ADHD and all hidden diseases.

Why does Turret's get such a good rap, and we're always the villains?

EDIT: you may feel free to respond to anything, but I'd especially like to hear from people who toke every day who do not have ADHD or any other physical reason to self-medicate.

*Dr. Gabor Mate says, "not bad parenting, stressed parenting," but also says, "we punish the people who were abused as children."

Tbh, I believe people with ADHD make a conscious choice just like everyone else. I think ADHD is a term given to categorize people with similar compulsions but I don't think it's really a condition in itself. Well, scratch that, I think most people are being over diagnosed and that only in severe cases should it be labeled as a medical condition.

Such as how I have developed compulsions like rubbing my thumb against my fingers when nervous, people can develop behaviors which are classified under ADHD. I developed the finger rubbing during an acid trip but I believe the same principle can be applied to the youth, who are more susceptible to 'change' in development seeing as how they are developing...

So, I do not see ADHD as a disease but common enough behaviors that we label as a single disorder. Whether it is a real disorder or not, I think marijuana can help regardless. I have never been diagnosed with ADHD but I know from experience that cannabis can calm hyperactivity. I have also have experienced profound inner change with the use of psychedelics; I therefor theorize that someone diagnosed with ADHD could have similar experiences with the use of cannabis, which is psychoactive.

And regarding little johnny, he controls his thoughts and his actions. His mental condition may influence his tendencies but it is his choice to take the easy route and skip school.

haven't read the entire piece yet, but I don't have ADHD(or ADD), I agree that I know many ADHD/ADD stoners that use it as selfmedication, I think at least half of my stonerfriends have ADD or
ADD, but not everyone

in my younger years I was closer to aspergers, actually once been 'accused' of having aspergers, and a lot of the traits do aply to me especially when I was still in elementary, but by the time that was said I had plenty of social contacts, and I myself don't beieve I really have aspergers, and after that my social contacts only improved
weed did help me socially I must say, but weed was just a part of a bigger change
stoners are usually easy people to connect with tough, easy-going, nice, and while having a sesh with a random stoner I never met before you can usually talk to that person like you've known him for years

I show some light signs of adhd, ocd, aspergers... I don't think I have any of these. Human brain is very complex machine and can be malicious in every way in every combinations. And no brain in perfect. People just recognized, what combinations of these "brain bugs" occur commonly and called many names. But these combinations can occur merged in any way.

I'd be a daily user if I didn't run out but I have traits that might peg me up to "having ADHD." I don't think that ADHD is actually a disease or a disorder - I think it's a consequence of how the brain interprets the shitton of information that we face daily. I was never diagnosed with ADHD probably because I always managed to do well in school (i consider myself lucky haha), but the truth is I have a lot of trouble paying attention. I've also been tapping my left foot habitually for about eight years now. I've tried Adderall recreationally and I've found it can really help me zone in. So no, I've never been diagnosed with ADHD but I'd say that I "have it" ....... but I refuse to believe it's actually a disorder.

I think the sort-of "wandering mind" symptom that is the crux of my inability to focus actually gets much stronger when I use cannabis. Focus goes to the wayside and I just wanna sit around and come up with new ideas, and that makes me really happy

I don't think ADHD really exists either. I would say some people really are born with a chemical imbalance, and may really have a physical reason there is trouble concentrating. But all the other cases are just big pharma cashing in on kids who can't concentrate because of improper diet and so much sugar. I'd say no more than 25% of ADHD cases are actual caused from a chemical imbalance you are born with. All other cases are just from lifestyle choice. Kind of like type 1 and type 2 diabetes.

I've also seen bipolar kids misdiagnosed with ADHD for years and years before they knew what was actually up. It seems kind of like a blanket diagnosis, a catch all excuse for why a kid won't behave or why they don't get good grades. That 's not to say there aren't legitimate cases out there where abnormalities in brain chemistry could hinder concentration, but the constant desire for diagnosis of some kind leaves us with all these damn acronyms and excuses.

I have always been hyper, and was even on Ritalin for a while when I was a kid. When I grew up and was a young adult, I was still hyper. (I still have aspects of ADHD, like I will swing my foot while sitting still, etc.) When I used cannabis, people said it made me like a normal person, that sat still and could actually pay attention.

I have to say, cannabis has always helped me, even when I wasn't intentionally using it as medicine.

Not a believer of ADD/ADHD here either. Another "disease" for Big Pharma to sell their snake oil cures. I can't help but wonder how much DIET has to do with some of these modern "afflictions", as well as how you are raised. Look at how many children are raised on "junk food" and shoved in front of a television at too young of an age. Quit giving your kids foods that are loaded with high fructose corn syrup and hormones and other nasty chemicals and wondering why their little minds and bodies are going nutty. End of rant.

Exactly, I know a guy that was said to have ADHD when he was a kid so he was put on Xanex. After 4 years of Xanex he developed bipolar and is now on some new medicine as well, and now is just a moody zombie mess. And sadly he probably never even had a problem to begin with, all kids are hyper. He claims he just tells his doctor he wants something to chill out and the doctor gives him zanex or whatever he wants.
Great example of how Big Pharma has become a drug peddler. You can get whatever you want from them so easily now with some doctors, oh but the price will be high per container for the good stuff.

Silver420Surfer said:

Not a believer of ADD/ADHD here either. Another "disease" for Big Pharma to sell their snake oil cures.

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I am glad that you are so confident in your beliefs, but your argument about ADHD is an extremely naive one that is inconsistent with the fact that lots of people who suffer from it have been helped tremendously once the disorder is recognized and treated, either with or without pharmaceuticals.

For every anecdote people here have about some kid whose parents thought he had ADHD but he was just eating too much sugar, there are dozens of people who have been legitimately diagnosed with this disorder, and have then been greatly assisted by receiving behavioral therapy, sometimes accompanied by medication.

i was diagnosed with ADD, Attention Deficit Disorder, about two years ago and ever since receiving treatment have found my life has benefited greatly. ADHD/ADD definitely exists and is prevalent enough to be in the DSM-IV and will still remain in the new DSM-V. i have learned from the large number of psychology classes that ive taken to receive my psych minor that many people who have personality disorders attempt to self medicate because they either do not have the money to pay for 'Big Pharma' drugs or are afraid to take them, which is why you may find a lot of cannibis users to have ADHD/ADD or a number of other psychological abnormalities. throughout history those who have been mentally abnormal have been treated and looked at in a negative manner because a majority of society has an unconscious belief that people have done something in their life to end up with a psychological disorder so in a way they deserve it. why you may find that some people do not benefit from treatment while others do is due to the fact that it is very difficult to diagnose many psychological disorders since so many have over-lapping symptoms and diagnosis of these disorders is at the discretion of psychologists whose opinions vary from one to the other. children are especially hard to diagnose since they are still maturing with fluctuating hormones and specific symptoms could be attributed to them growing.

btw, you won't find many people in prison due to ADHD/ADD. a large number of inmates in prison are found to suffer from antisocial personality disorder. i know this doesn't seem like it makes sense but look up the personality disorder of antisocial and you'll see why.

Fiend said:

Tbh, I believe people with ADHD make a conscious choice just like everyone else. I think ADHD is a term given to categorize people with similar compulsions but I don't think it's really a condition in itself. Well, scratch that, I think most people are being over diagnosed and that only in severe cases should it be labeled as a medical condition.

Such as how I have developed compulsions like rubbing my thumb against my fingers when nervous, people can develop behaviors which are classified under ADHD. I developed the finger rubbing during an acid trip but I believe the same principle can be applied to the youth, who are more susceptible to 'change' in development seeing as how they are developing...

So, I do not see ADHD as a disease but common enough behaviors that we label as a single disorder. Whether it is a real disorder or not, I think marijuana can help regardless. I have never been diagnosed with ADHD but I know from experience that cannabis can calm hyperactivity. I have also have experienced profound inner change with the use of psychedelics; I therefor theorize that someone diagnosed with ADHD could have similar experiences with the use of cannabis, which is psychoactive.

And regarding little johnny, he controls his thoughts and his actions. His mental condition may influence his tendencies but it is his choice to take the easy route and skip school.

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This opinion is commonly stated by the uneducated.

ADD which is the same as ADHD (They just changed the name) is very clearly shown to be a neurological disorder than can be detected objectively by modern medicine and can be helped with medications among other treatments. My spouse is ADD (inattentive type) and my educaton into this disorder has been extremely elightening and challenging. The challenge is with folks like fiend and folks who don't understand the disorder and the other group of folks who only recognize traditional ADD.

1/2 of the ADD people in the world (most female) aren't hyper AT ALL. This is what inattentive type ADD means)

Vicki said:

I have to say, cannabis has always helped me, even when I wasn't intentionally using it as medicine.

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+1000

I have modified my "working theory" that all daily users have ADHD.

Here's how it works, as I see it.

Different species have different ways of keeping their babies close...baby cows receive a form of morphine in their milk which keeps them close to their mothers. Those baby cows do not see themselves as being addicted, they simply think they are close to their mothers.

In Human babies there is no morphine from Mom, but there is a brain chemical called dopamine which human babies AND moms produce when they are in close proximity to each other. When babies are taken away from their moms they stop producing dopamine, and even after being returned to their mother's arms they do not start producing dopamine for a couple of days, as a defensive measure. If the dopamine circuits are not producing dopamine regularly as children our "rewards system" becomes comprimised, because it is underdeveloped, and we notice all sorts of behavioral problems as our minds seek alternative ways to cope.

So, the medical community, snake oil salesmen that they are, seeks "peer reviewed" methods to treat the symptoms, but they cannot discern the finer aspects, so treat the grosser side effects in clumsy ways based on work that has gone before. Speed for focus, CBT for organizational and impulse control.

When it seems the real ways out of this condition are to teach myself how to express dopamine independant of what's going on around me. And, I believe I have developed a "meditation" to "express dopamine," which is quite powerful....though it's not something I can maintain for very long, it does "feel like" the experiences I've had in front of the pulpit, felt while "in love," and is stronger than the "Disney Moment," in films or TV shows.

So, to condense, i still believe most, if not all, daily cannabis users, are in the medical category of ADHD, and that it has more to do with an underdeveloped rewards system than anything else, and that our true way out of the effects, and they can be many and terrible, is to better develop our ability to express dopamine.

I further believe that if all ADHDer's would be gently helped to recognize and embrace their ADHD condition and begin treating their symptoms, that we would unleash another 20% of the nation's brain power. That we would no longer be able to be used as the swing vote, and because of our enhanced abilities, would do as well in life as any engineer with assburgers (sic).

My daughter said, "no one like's being told they have a condition," so how did I get here? How did I internalize this scrap of info so deeply as to believe it describes my whole life condition, and even see the ADHD'er's being used as the swing vote, as they're addicted to television, and are low-information voters.

Course' I could be wrong...but I am thinking reduced ability or compromised "reward system" accounts for all pedophiles, all gambling addicts, all OCD'ers and everyone who taps their foot all the time, as each of these behaviors seeks to manufacture analogs to the dopamine we "could" be feeling, and which our bodies craves genetically.

If it is true that we are all born with brains which are pre-programmed for language, or pre-programmed to receive language training, then it's not too far a stretch to assume our brains are pre-programmed to enjoy dopamine as the rewards system which starts to develop as babies in our mother's arms (or actually bonding with any emotionally calm and emotionally available adults who are around when we are young) and carries us through adult-hood. We need to better develop our ability to make our own drugs, inside our brains, and use that ability to help us concentrate and feel connected. My

interesting thread, thanks ... i'll claim to being somewhat OCD, but i've always thought of myself as a lowly-motivated over-achiever, i.e. it takes me a while to get going, but then i never stop until success - usually over-engineering until i understand the issues and resolve the problems. This reality view creates a lot of stress, for which i medicate daily. As well as daily exercise and real food diet.

im glad that there is a thought provoking topic on here. However, not to be insulting but a few of your beliefs aren't exactly the most accurate and im just trying to make sure you are better informed.

VWFringe said:

When babies are taken away from their moms they stop producing dopamine, and even after being returned to their mother's arms they do not start producing dopamine for a couple of days, as a defensive measure. If the dopamine circuits are not producing dopamine regularly as children our "rewards system" becomes comprimised, because it is underdeveloped, and we notice all sorts of behavioral problems as our minds seek alternative ways to cope.

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babies do not stop producing dopamine while away from their mothers, they may have decreased levels of the hormone but definitely not a complete absence. you are correct with the fact that if there is irregular production of dopamine or the receptors for the hormone are altered then it would cause a abnormal behavior during development. however, the irregular production and reception of dopamine can be an effector of various psychological disorders ranging from schizophrenia to general anxiety disorder to bulimia(subcategory of OCD).

VWFringe said:

then it's not too far a stretch to assume our brains are pre-programmed to enjoy dopamine as the rewards system which starts to develop as babies in our mother's arms (or actually bonding with any emotionally calm and emotionally available adults who are around when we are young) and carries us through adult-hood.

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its been proven that dopamine is directly related to our rewards system so no assumption is needed anymore.

i would have to say that the belief that ALL or most daily cannibis users have the condition ADHD, different than ADD, would be too much of a generalization. there are many of those who may only have the Axis I criteria of something like chronic pain who do not have ADHD and use cannibis daily. if theres one thing i learned about psychology is that psychology is one place that generalizations are highly out of place due to such great variance and complexity of each individual's brain.

I say dopamine, but I know it may be a cocktail

I say "expressing dopamine," but mean the "rewards system"

I say ADHD, but mean anyone who didn't get a chance to develop their rewards system, and has noticed it's caused a certain "neediness" that may have developed into something that doesn't work for them.

I think we self-medicate for certain aspects of what we need, but don't get the cocktail quite right, except when it's something we whip up ourselves in our noggins,

I say "expressing dopamine" but I mean re-creating the feeling of intense worship or falling-in-love, without tears, or what it feels like when you are feeling really in-sync or bonded with a person or pet who means a lot to us, then focus on that feeling so that it increases...back off it you squirt a tear, turn it down slightly.

I think expressing dopamine is the neuro-transmitter between people, that as one person is expressing dopamine, the other person picks up on it using subtle cues (synchronized breathing, gestural communication, eye movement), and that these cues are interpreted as being close to, or sympathetic, to them. And, that in the absence of the ability to express dopamine, we don't feel connected to the people we pass, and they can pick up on it, like truth serum, and perhaps it is harder for people to recognize this "expression" cross-culturally if people lack experience with people from different cultures, which may account for some of the prejudices.

And, I think we can re-create that "feeling" (though it's more a "brain chemistry" IMO, than a feeling) independent of any specific thoughts or experiences ("on demand").

Anything basically wrong with this assessment? does it have a shot?

Thanks,

Just chiming in. I was diagnosed with ADHD & GAD about a year ago. Went most of my life thinking it was just me being 'lazy'. Now that I can recognize my symptoms, I have an easier time catching myself when it starts cropping up. Been making better progress in many things since learning about my conditions. I wouldn't trade my ADHD for a cure though. I love the passionate nature that ADHD can create!

As someone who may have had been affected by ADHD all of my life, let me tell you that 'skipping school' or 'being lazy' never felt like the easy way out. It felt like the only way out. Cognitive fatigue is a bitch! I understand the disbelief in the social constructs of psychiatric medicine, but its hard to say that ADHD doesn't exist when you live with it 24/7. The more work I put into studying/memorizing in the traditional ways we were taught in school, the worse I did. Counselors and tutors would just say I wasn't studying enough or correctly. I was always in advanced classes, so I must be intelligent...right? It's a struggle when you do the same thing as everyone around you + more, and get nowhere. So no, ADHD is not the 'easy way out'

I still use cannabis on a daily basis, but have reduced my use considerably. I do use cannabis for creative direction and inspiration when needed. It's like a taking a magnifying glass to your imagination. The first dose of the day is always the most effective, I need to carefully choose when to take that first hit

VWFringe said:

I think expressing dopamine is the neuro-transmitter between people, that as one person is expressing dopamine, the other person picks up on it using subtle cues (synchronized breathing, gestural communication, eye movement), and that these cues are interpreted as being close to, or sympathetic, to them. And, that in the absence of the ability to express dopamine, we don't feel connected to the people we pass, and they can pick up on it, like truth serum, and perhaps it is harder for people to recognize this "expression" cross-culturally if people lack experience with people from different cultures, which may account for some of the prejudices.

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i think i can see where you're getting at here and is definitely contains good reasoning.
i believe you're saying
normal dopamine production---> able to express emotions and non-verbal communication(gestures)---> correct interpretation of a person
vs.
abnormal dopamine production---> lack of outward emotional appearance/poor non-verbal communication---> incorrect interpretation

however, when you get into this "expression" in the context of cross-culturally this changes a bit. behavior between cultures vary for what is normal and abnormal. In the US, it is normal to look someone directly in the eyes for a majority of the conversation but in some Asian cultures prolonged eye contact is interpreted as an insult and disrespectful. unintentional cross-cultural insults like these can lead to prejudices you mentioned. this is where you are valid in saying cross-culture expressions are harder to pick up on due to lack of experience.

VWFringe said:

And, I think we can re-create that "feeling" (though it's more a "brain chemistry" IMO, than a feeling) independent of any specific thoughts or experiences ("on demand").

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i would also definitely agree with you on this statement. the CB1 and CB2 receptors found in the nervous system are naturally occurring and are very closely correlated to the expression of dopamine. i think you'll find this video to be helpful in explaining this.

I heard a shrink on Youtube stating pot used for ADHD seems like a really bad idea, being something that more or less scrambles a person's cognitive abilities, but I believe we just haven't had the right language to explain why it works, and that it should go something like this...
"Pot works as an adjunct to, or perhaps even temporarily supplants, our brain's rewards system. ADHD individuals have reduced function of their dopamine circuits, and a certain amount of subliminal neurogenic pain persists through the void of not having an active rewards system. Because even though they have had to adapt to their condition, their brains are biologically missing it, and so constantly in a state of withdrawl (except after they manage to produce dopamine, during which they will feel at peace and connected). Pot does not replace the dopamine, but provides an analog to the rewards system overall"

This all hinges on the idea that non-ADHD people are getting high all the time, or using dopamine to attenuate their emotions. To their way of thinking they're not getting high, or addicted, it's just sublimated.

I still don't believe it's a disorder but I'm pretty sure I have it. If I have it and it's a disorder it means there's something wrong with me, I feel like I have the right to not incriminate myself here. So I'm going with "not a disorder" still and say that it's just the world that's all weird

But I think next week I'll run down to the pharmacy and see if I can buy some legal amphetamines paid for with health insurance, and then go vape some illegal cannabis...Yeah.

^ I'm with you in not thinking it's a disorder- rather a natural part of the spectrum of the human developmental condition. It's only evident as a disorder in our modern, economically and academically driven lifestyles, where these traits are not particularly well suited to success. 'Normal' behaviour is a social construct, flexible across time and societies. The 'disorder' aspect is largely just marketing and pigeon holing IMO.

I'm a big believer in an evolutionary driver for most things, and it's possible that those displaying ADHD type behaviour traits might actually prove more effective in a hunter-gather type society, where these behaviours could lead to more effective hunting and foraging.

Maybe, maybe not, but I question whether it could be deemed a disadvantage or disorder, or would even be evident, under these more natural conditions. It's not really 'natural' for the human mind to focus it's attention in the same ways as is required in modern life.

Likewise 'anti-social personality disorder' mentioned in a post above, witnessed in many prisoners. Again it's only a disorder in our modern and peaceful settled lives. In a primitive tribal conflict context these people could likely be the heroes in battle and on raids, and an essential component of our society. Similar perhaps in one sense to the soldier ants in a colony.

Not denying that these traits called 'ADHD' exist though, or that the chemical reasoning is correct and that those affected can't lead much happier and more successful modern lives with drug use. Just not sure that I agree with the medical opinion that it is an objective 'disorder'.

Just my opinion, and not a particularly informed one. No offence intended.

(oh, and I am 100% certain that I would be diagnosed with ADHD- I can see really marked evidence of almost all of the typical traits described for ADHD in my behaviour)

I have ADHD but unlike many others i wasnt diagnosed until freshmen year of college. Ive been a straight A student all my life yet i got to college and was unable to truly focus on anything. I starting smoking years ago and continued to do so all through high school and never had a problem. I decided to stop smoking before coming ti college and I think that's what screwed everything up. Smoking somehow allowed me to function in what is considered a "proper" manner.
I agree that it is just a natural part of the spectrum but the degrees of variability in people are very broad. I think it needs ti be considered a disorder in order for some to seek the help that they need. I agree that it would probably have stemmed from our lifestyle thousands of years ago. But it is slowly dying out as people become more and more sedentary. There is a small percent of people with a true diagnosis of ADHD, there are definitely many diagnosed who probably shouldn't be. I don't think we shouldn't consider it a disorder only because it could have been beneficial as hunter-gatherers. It's still a disorder because it doesn't fit the modern lifestyle. Just because it's a disorder doesn't make it a bad thing, just a reason explaining how some people are different and maybe in some ways, chemically more primitive.

I have had ADD all my life (62) and have always struggled until I found a career that involved "multitasking". That was perfect for me as the ADD became performance enhancing. More on topic, I find when baked it forces me to stay on task to maintain focus. It us like drinking drivers becoming better at driving as they are more focused on their driving due to slight impairment. Anyway that's how it affects me.