Can I point something out ? The Bread Standard

Purple-Days

Well-Known Member
Money is Funny... long ago known as 'Bread, man...' . :cool:

I'm gonna give you $100 . . . (of course this is fiction, but the numbers remain the same, for the . ...)

So you start with $100 or $1000 or whatever...

Today they announced an increase in the market of 4%... after what ??? Just asking... lets look at an example...

Take your $100 and reduce by 5%. .. = $95.00 ... right?... and the next day, wow, it's back up 5% and you feel great, right ??? I broke even.... $95 x 1.05 = $99.75

I'm thinking of calling it this 'Bread Standard'., but want no credit, it is what it is. (Rather than the Gold Standard...) . How many loaves of standard white 'sandwich' bread can you get for a buck? (you can't eat Gold) I wanted to check myself and asked Pammy, "how many loaves, when you were a kid, for a buck?" out of the blue... her answer matched mine.

I think this is a good tracker of our true standard of living. Maybe dollars or euros or yen aren't the best way to track wealth. ??? Comments... :peace: Give a year and how many loaves you got for your dollar (USD)...

BTW a famous economist said, the market is not the economy...
 
Purple-Days,

stoney

Alex
They always told me in my economics class that economists disagree about the economy all of the time. I wonder what the hell they were teaching me.

I don't think I'm old enough to expound on the bread prices of a certain year.
 
stoney,

djonkoman

Well-Known Member
we have such a thing here too where they use some general items that a common family would buy
and the politicians are constantly talking about 'koopkracht', wich is the same(literally buying force, the force you have to buy things)

also there's the famoys big mac standard/index, since there are mcdonalds all over the world wich all sell the same big mac(well except for india I believe, they have some kind of chickenburger)

I think bread wouldn't be such a good measurement since bread can change a lot depending on what country you are, for example in rome I was really disappointed in the quality of the bread(compared to here in the netherlands), it was all supermarketbread and did not taste fresh at all(fresh IME=a bit harder crust and softer inside, that's the best I can explain it), altough that's here also woth supermarketbread, bread from the bakery is much better(and fresh)
and the loaves of bread in italy where also smaller then they are here, with some weird added flavor(seasoning/herbs I think)
and in france there are more baguettes

my observations are about brown bread btw, I don't like white bread

also another thing about bread, as I understand it it's very common to eat cereal for breakfast in america, while here it's far more common to eat bread for breakfast(and lunch), there are people who eat cereal but it's far less common(and IMO brwad is much better, cereal is to dry, but that's because I don't like milk)
 
djonkoman,

Plotinus

Well-Known Member
WatTyler said:
I think they have something similar called the 'retail price index' (or 'consumer goods index'?) In the UK at least- it compares average costs each month of a 'basket' of goods and services, bread included. Not in the US?

beat me to it. CPI is already measured in most countries with open economies.

your bread standard reflects a certain kind of wealth but to really nail down a person's 'real' wealth you have to compare the CPI to wages. so if i can only get half as many loaves today as i could in 1970, but i earn twice as much as i would in 1970, it's a wash.

if only that were the case! the unreported story of the past few decades is middle class wage stagnation (or even contraction) even as the CPI continues to rise.
 
Plotinus,

weedemon

enthusiast
i like your math example there! i haven't thought about that kind of thing in a long time.

I can't remember what bread cost 10 years ago. :( that's about when i started buying bread myself. weed costs the same though. still generally 10 bucks a gram! :D
 
weedemon,

Purple-Days

Well-Known Member
Column 1 = year
Column 2 = US Federal Minimum Wage
Column 3 =1996 Dollars...adjusted for inflation using the CPI-U (Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers).


1965 1.25 6.23 1993 4.25 4.61
1966 1.25 6.05 1994 4.25 4.50
1967 1.40 6.58 1995 4.25 4.38
1968 1.60 7.21 1996 4.75 4.75
1969 1.60 6.84 1997 5.15 5.03
1970 1.60 6.47 1998 5.15 4.96
1971 1.60 6.20 1999 5.15 4.85
1972 1.60 6.01 2000 5.15 4.69
1973 1.60 5.65 2001 5.15 4.56
1974 2.00 6.37 2002 5.15 4.49
1975 2.10 6.12 2003 5.15 4.39
1976 2.30 6.34 2004 5.15 4.28
1977 2.30 5.95 2005 5.15 4.14
1978 2.65 6.38 2006 5.15 4.04
1979 2.90 6.27 2007 5.85 4.41
1980 3.10 5.90 2008 6.55
1981 3.35 5.78 2009 7.25
1982 3.35 5.78 20102011 7.25

I started working in 1972 for minimum wages... $1.60 an hour and could buy 4 loaves of white sandwich bread for a dollar. And a gallon of gasoline for $0.32. One hour of work would buy 4 loaves and 2 gallons of gas.

A fellow starting his working career today will earn $7.25 and hour. A loaf of white sandwich bread costs $1.50 and gasoline is $3.50 ... One hour of work buys 2 loaves of bread and 1 gallon of gas.

Or, 4 loaves and 2 gallons would = 1 hour and 48 minutes

I'm not advocating raising the minimum wage, just looking back at what has happened to paper money in my lifetime. And what it used to buy.

Gold was $50-70 an ounce (1972), now approaching $1800 . . .

Good Columbian weed (1975) was $325 a figging pound !

A half gallon of ice cream was a half gallon*... not anymore... A tin of Tuna was 7 ounces... not anymore...


I am aware of the CPI... it is manipulated*... the basket contents (and quantities) change, just as the DJIA is manipulated by removing certain companies from the list and adding others to make the numbers look good. So it's not a wash, though that's what 'they' would like you to think. That's why I think concentrating on a simple loaf of bread gives you a (better?) idea of what is really happening.
 
Purple-Days,

SSS

mmj patient under siege by the obama admin
the solution to rising food costs in our country is to make a shittier, less nutritious version for a low price. not sure if the loaf analogy can work under those circumstances. soon, we'll all be eating sawdust (or soylent green).
 
SSS,

Purple-Days

Well-Known Member
I think that's why a loaf of white sandwich bread (16 oz.) is a good indicator, you can't really fudge much. maybe you can think of another indicator, but this is just used as an example.

I agree, and for many years now I notice smaller portions in addition to cheaper ingredients in many 'staple' products. Like the Tuna can that used to be 7 ounces that is now 6.5 or 6.25. . .

Point is an hour of work buys less and less and less... :2c:

As a 16 year old (1972) there was no problem finding work for minimum wage and that was equal to $6 an hour. Nowdays a 16 year old, faces 20%+ unemployment and a wage worth less than $4.50 and that dollar won't buy nearly the sack of goods I could buy in 1972.
 
Purple-Days,

vapirtoo

Well-Known Member
I live in the same house that my parents bought for $25,00 in 1966.
The house now can be sold for $250,000 to $350,000.
This is a graphic example of the devaluation of the dollar. :uhoh:
 
vapirtoo,

WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
Purple-Days said:
As a 16 year old (1972) there was no problem finding work for minimum wage and that was equal to $6 an hour. Nowdays a 16 year old, faces 20%+ unemployment and a wage worth less than $4.50 and that dollar won't buy nearly the sack of goods I could buy in 1972.

It only seem to hold true for the life essentials though, and less so for luxuries (gold excepted). I now use a computer today that would have cost a couple of months salary a few years ago. Now it's a couple of days. Same for cars, telephones, tv's and lots of the modern goods that have expanded the global economy of the last century. In this sense I can get more for my 'dollar' than my grandfather could have imagined. I suppose this is down to globalisation and the use of cheap foreign manufacturing labour
 
WatTyler,

djonkoman

Well-Known Member
SSS said:
the solution to rising food costs in our country is to make a shittier, less nutritious version for a low price. not sure if the loaf analogy can work under those circumstances. soon, we'll all be eating sawdust (or soylent green).

I read an article once about some poor country where the main food are cookies baked from mud now....
 
djonkoman,

Purple-Days

Well-Known Member
Wat says, "It only seem to hold true for the life essentials though..." and I agree 100% +/- a few points ( ;) ) ...

But, I think that's the point of the 'Bread Standard'. Essentials for those that are at the point, where the cost of 'essentials' is critical. When the hippie called, 'cash money', "bread, man...", it had a point, you need bread to survive.

Same as you need a 'pad', a place to lay your head. Another essential that has seen the same sort of escalation in 'value' as bread (see : Vapirtoo's post ). Housing values reflect rental prices for those that can't afford a house... In 1975 I split a pretty cool three bedroom Victorian with yard and detached 2 car garage for $300 a month ($100 a piece).

I could get a nice used car ( nice to me, in 1975) for $500. 1966 Mustang convertible or a newish 1970 Beetle. Basic transport. Basic Fuel costs. Basic 'pad'. Basic groceries... 'Bread, man'

Yes, I can get a whiz bang computer, better than the Apollo mission, by 10 to the ??? for ... well, my first computer was a Sinclair... Or I can buy a LCD/LED 4 color TV that makes the old Sony Trinitron look like a sledge... for the exact same price... But, we went to the Moon with that primitive stuff and a common man could feed a family with hard work...

Essentials be damned, I need an I-Pad.... :lol: No, I need a 'pad, man...' ... :cool:

:peace:

BTW a new 1968 Camaro $3800 base price... Modern equivalent $ $ $ ???

:peace:

Also remember we had pagers / beepers back in 'the day'... The page - ee called in when it was safe and convenient... We didn't text while driving... :rolleyes: (Just pointing out that not all tech progress is real progress. IMO) Yes, we had one way texting at one time.
 
Purple-Days,

stoney

Alex
Purple-Days, don't forget that your memory is not infallible, you tend to remember the "good old days" as being, well, good - regardless of how good they were (I think that's why a lot of people have such nostalgia for the 50s).
 
stoney,

Purple-Days

Well-Known Member
I don't mind that critique at all... Response in a minute.

+++
I was born 1956 if you can't figure 1972 and 16 years old. So, I have no '50s nostalgia.

+++
I know about working conditions in that era, you may read about them. That is why, I am trying in this thread, to expose the difference. I'm not here to offend you, rather to inform... If you don't like what I say, fine. But, your post has little to offer. Read what you said, you question my memory, and that I am old and you laugh... yet, I post facts and you mock... I laugh . :lol: :2c: :peace:
 
Purple-Days,

stoney

Alex
PD, don't get me wrong here, I understand the economics behind what you are saying. But even with inflation and the change in what basket of goods we can purchase, our standard of living is always increasing (although America is pretty behind on standards of living, compared to most of Europe). Also, I said a lot of people have 50s nostalgia (I know you've met them too!), not you. ;)

I don't think we need to go back to the gold standard, but maybe politicians should stop borrowing so much money.

At any rate, I apologize if I offended. :peace:
 
stoney,

Purple-Days

Well-Known Member
I'm no Ludite. Well, maybe somedays....


So what I am trying to show is... what does it take to live a decent life? In US or anywhere... I can only use examples of what I have lived through. Maybe some reference to my Aunts and Uncles WW2, a few ideas of what my WW1 relatives lived through, a tin box with old war notes from before that...

I don't want to go back, that's not what I'm saying. If you don't see that I'm sorry. I want to buy a loaf of bread for $0.25, just kidding, but I want an hour of work to be worth an hour of work...
 
Purple-Days,

bcleez

Well-Known Member
The flaw in CPI is that it excludes volatile food and energy prices in core inflation calculations... so its pretty much not right ever.

Also currency values would influence prices - for example oil trade has been done in US currency - so depending on your countries currency in relation to the dollar blah blah blah...

BTW want to see something crazy - check out these historical tax rates

Year $10k $20k $60k$100k $250k
1930 6% 10% 21% 25% 25%
1932 10% 16% 36% 56% 58%
1934 11% 19% 37% 56% 58%
1936 11% 19% 39% 62% 68%
1938 11% 19% 39% 62% 68%
1940 14% 28% 51% 62% 68%
1942 38% 55% 75% 85% 88%
1944 41% 59% 81% 92% 94%
1946 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1948 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1950 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1952 42% 62% 80% 90% 92%
1954 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1956 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1958 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1960 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1962 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1964 23% 34% 56% 66% 76%
1966 - 1976 22% 32% 53% 62% 70%
1980 18% 24% 54% 59% 70%
 
bcleez,

stoney

Alex
I feel like the difference between the poor in the past compared to today is that most people who are poor today are spending money that they don't have on things they don't need. Did poor people buy the top of the line TV or Telephone (etc) in the 1970s? How about today, do you know anyone who is struggling to pay their bills, and yet their entire family (children included) have cell phones?

I know a few.
 
stoney,

Purple-Days

Well-Known Member
Yes Bcleez, that's an interesting breakdown... keeping in mind that 60K in 1930 was a fortune, 1980 not so much so... 21% (for rich man in those days) vs. 54% (for a middle class man in 1980).

2hi9qhh.jpg
 
Purple-Days,

Qbit

cannabanana
stoney said:
I feel like the difference between the poor in the past compared to today is that most people who are poor today are spending money that they don't have on things they don't need. Did poor people buy the top of the line TV or Telephone (etc) in the 1970s? How about today, do you know anyone who is struggling to pay their bills, and yet their entire family (children included) have cell phones?

I know a few.

Cell phones haven't been a sign of wealth for many years. I saw Laotian and Cambodian farmers standing in rice paddies with cell back in 2007. They are a necessity in today's world. Maybe not the latest model smartphone, but everyone has them these days.
 
Qbit,
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