The Economy...

Saw Ben Bernanke on 60 Minutes last night.

Ummm...........a bit scary to say the least and the scariest part about it is that he LOOKED scared and shaken.

Things could get a lot worse for a long time before they get any better. According to him, the next 5 years are going to be pretty tough and could get a lot worse than they are now.

Now I know that some of you are going to say, well, we should have done this, or we shouldn't have done that. For me, I'm not smart enough to know those answers, but I'm not too sure that those that were or are now in charge really know either.

Bernanke looked and acted like the captain of a ship that is going down but that he had to keep up his game face so his crew and passengers won't panic.

i would love to hear Obama say: "We will have free electric for all Americans by the end of the decade." Now, that would grow a vibrant economy that would put everyone to work. imho.

I'd love to see helicopter Ben fired and the entire federal reserve fractional reserve banking shenanigan terminated too! IMO, the Federal Reserve policies are largely responsible for the mess we're in! Ron Paul in 2012!

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbankers.php http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE2/doodoo.html?q=ARTICLE2/doodoo.php http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/dyinginafghanistan.php ??????????

I would probably be scared too if I had seen that special. I think that most people think its going to turn around overnight, but that simply wont happen. Go back and look at the Great depression(the other one) and people will realize it didnt fix itself overnight.

Hippie Dickie said:

i would love to hear Obama say: "We will have free electric for all Americans by the end of the decade." Now, that would grow a vibrant economy that would put everyone to work. imho.

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lol wut?

i'm not one for the credit system.

i'm for saving before spending.

but under no circumstances do i find the idea of owing money necessary.

if our country can move far far away from the current banking system, i'd likely see it as a good thing.

lwien said:

Saw Ben Bernanke on 60 Minutes last night.

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So did I and I turned it off faster than you can blink! Last thing I need is to be bored by some "back to the future" BS than stinks like petrified doo-doo. I was much more amused by Barrack's sharp right turn this afternoon. Reminded me of a hybrid indica/sativa of Reagan/Clinton.

As one who judges his characters by their actions and not their word I'd say the only thing Barrack gives two shits about is winning in 2012. But the biggest hoot to me is all this "crap" about passing it on to out grandchildren... "Wake up and smell the grass America... Passing our debt onto the next generation is the only thing America has actually mastered.

Pappy said:

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As one who judges his characters by their actions and not their word I'd say the only thing Barrack gives two shits about is winning in 2012.

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The only way he's going to win in 2012 is if the Repubs nominate Palin.

I really did have high hopes from him. Really disappointed. You'd think that with his great communication skills, that he would.....................communicate, for THAT is one of his biggest problems, that is, not being able to sell the American public on his programs, be it health care, tax cuts, etc etc etc. Also, where in the fuck is his balls. He's coming across pretty weak as of late, and has the look of a defeated President already.

The guy needs to find his fucking mojo and get it workin'..................now.

Again, I'm not smart enough to pretend that I know how to fix the issues at hand, but fucking come up with a plan and fucking SELL us on it so that we buy into it, hook line and sinker.

If there is a time, this is the time that we need to have confidence in our Prez, and right now, he sure as hell doesn't have mine, and I'm a socially liberal Dem.

You can't really say that Obama is not doing what he was voted to do and that is "change". The trouble is the Republicans stalling and derailing and wasting time on every issue or change that needs to be passed.

Obama was thrown into a shit pit left for him by the worst president EVER
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

I echo lwien's sentiments.
@ DeepFried > Leadership is about leading, regardless of the task. Beside the Bush shit-pile there's a sizable wing of the GOP intent on tripping Obama up simply because he''s a gangly black guy with big ears.

Just some observations.

Obama vowed to repeal the Bush Era Tax Cuts, a political campaign promise... He won't (in the end it's not his choice), it was an empty promise. (We never learn that campaign promises are empty... no matter which side they come from...)

2) After ten years, they hardly remain 'tax cuts', they are the current tax rate.

3) No amount of forewarning (imminent EU system collapse for the same debt reasons) will motivate our representatives to make the hard choices. Feds are printing money that isn't there... We are backing failed comapnies (GM and Chrysler), Social Security is a Ponzy scheme, Medicare is gonna topple the whole mess. . . Housing is a mess, caused by the same folks who are now gonna fix it...

Drink the . . . Drool-Aid . . .


WOW! HIppie Dickie... Free electric in ten years? That is awsome. Sorta a Moon shot... brilliant. I have lived off grid and know it takes a lifestyle change, not something I think people are ready to accept (I may be wrong, and it need not be as harsh as my conditions). I've seen community reactors that look promising. Solar is big here of course. Hydrogen just seems obvious but nobody can make the big bucks from something that comes from water...haha... Funny how we decided to fund Ethnol and now even Gore says it was bad policy... Seems we are like a drunken sailor and there is no Shore Patrol to lead us to the big old honking ship.

I'm not Republican or Democrat or Tea Party. I'm not socialist or communist or even a strict capitalist...

BTW, fuck the 'one world order', come get me! I believe in state's rights, both countries (States) and territories (states). Don't like the state, it should be your right to move.

2 years of tax extension and 13 months of extended un-employment (added to 99 weeks in some states)... a fucking compromise, I don't care what side you are on, this is a postponement... OH yeah, Brother, we are fixing the problem. Vote for us in 2012...

We might as well be walking on the Sun, might as well be walking on the Sun...

^I'm going to have to agree with all of this. :/

Abolish the fed, legalize marijuana (at least hemp..) and let the bush tax cuts expire for those making over 250,000.00. It sounds too easy so it probably is, but god damn if it wouldn't help us all. But our political system is destroyed. Obstruction is the game plan for the other side, and Obama's plan seems to be "compromising" with them. I don't get it. I'm scared for 2012, if the Republican gain full control again I think I'll need to work on finding a new country to call home.

Here's what I don't understand.

In it's simplest form:

Obama wanted to extend the Bush tax cuts to all those that made 250,000 or less and to let the tax cuts expire to all those that made above 250,000, which in essence, would roll back their tax structure to what it was during the Clinton administration. Makes perfect sense to me.

But the Republicans stated that if the Bush tax cuts were not extended to EVERYBODY, they would would not vote thru the limited extension and would thereby kill the tax cuts for those making under 250 grand, which would, in essence, raise the taxes to the middle class by 3 to 4 grand a year.

Now their reasoning for this is because they felt that there are a lot of small business owners who make in excess of 250,000, and if you raise their taxes, their business would suffer and they would not be able to hire more people which would have a negative impact on our economy.

Ok, I can buy into that concept................but what in the hell happened to negotiation? If you're worried about the small business owner, than raise the fucking cap, from say, 250 grand to 500 grand. Fuck, raise it to 750 grand, but why in hell give a tax break to those making over a million dollars a year, and feel that it is so important to do so, that you would be willing to let the tax cuts to the middle class expire? Not only that, but the Republicans all along have been complaining about the dollars that the current administration is spending. You'd think that they would be the first ones to want to cut spending by rolling back the tax cuts to the richest 2% in the country.

Makes absolutely no sense why they didn't negotiate the cap rather than make it an all or nothing situation.

Lwien says, "cut spending by rolling back the tax cuts", sorry but the two are not the same. I know where you are coming from and they both affect the deficit number, but out of control spending isn't really equal to under taxing. We can argue either but have to get the terms straightened out.

BTW the Rich save and invest (excess money), the Poor (all others) spend it. Just a fact.

In an era of 'Consumption the Almighty' it's easy to argue the impact of giving it all to the poor... But I will always argue that if you level the playing field and we all start tomorrow morning with equal piles of money, you will have to sort it all out again the next day, and the day after... communists and socialists and facists and racists and State capitalists should be given travel brochures.

Purple-Days said:

But I will always argue that if you level the playing field and we all start tomorrow morning with equal piles of money, you will have to sort it all out again the next day, and the day after... communists and socialists and facists and racists and State capitalists should be given travel brochures.

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+1 Very true!

It's actually worse than you describe. Democrats did propose a modified bill that would have extended cuts for anyone under the 1 million mark. Republicans continued to obstruct.

Unfortunately, the problem is us, not them. As long as voters continue to have short attention spans and short memories - and as a consequence fail to hold Republicans accountable for what they're doing - the shenanigans will continue.

Keeping up with politics isn't a hobby, it's a civic duty. More people need to understand that or things will not improve.

Politics and the partys have the info so far under bullshit it is nearly impossible to make any right or wrong out of it, When a party just wants to block a motion they do, right or wrong for the public, I do not have a clue. Do you really think you can keep up with a well paid lobbiest, and his morals? Not a chance. Duty now is to survive, these partys have us by the little guys. I am a small businees owner, my choice, I /we emplo, again my choice. Next year I do not think so. I do not remember all the lies and criminals running our highschool learning about civics. I do not need a break, handoujt or health ins. I earn all I have, I tried to spell check quickly, so literates have at it.

it seems to me that republicans live by the Reaganian principle: Government is the problem. Thus, their agenda is to destroy the government. Seems to me they will succeed. Losing the country is just collateral damage.

lwien said:

Ok, I can buy into that concept................but what in the hell happened to negotiation? If you're worried about the small business owner, than raise the fucking cap, from say, 250 grand to 500 grand. Fuck, raise it to 750 grand, but why in hell give a tax break to those making over a million dollars a year, and feel that it is so important to do so, that you would be willing to let the tax cuts to the middle class expire? Not only that, but the Republicans all along have been complaining about the dollars that the current administration is spending. You'd think that they would be the first ones to want to cut spending by rolling back the tax cuts to the richest 2% in the country.

Makes absolutely no sense why they didn't negotiate the cap rather than make it an all or nothing situation.

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That was attempted by several congressmen and women, first it was raised to 500, then even a million. None of it's good enough for Republicans apparently. The biggest load of BS is that the soon to be new speaker of the house, John Boner(yeah I know..) said in Sept. that if given only the option of voting to extend tax cuts for just the middle class that he would vote yes for it. Why is he not being held up to his word? Why don't these people get called out for their hypocrisy?

And yes, why is spending and the deficit the Republicans BIGGEST concern, but they also NEED to add an extra 900 BILLION dollars to our debt in the next 10 years by extending these tax cuts for the rich. Borrowing plenty more cash from China to help cover these tax cuts too.

When you give people who are struggling financially tax cuts, they in turn immediately spend that extra cash because they NEED to. If you do the same for the rich who need no financial aid, they just keep the money and either invest it or more likely send it to a Swiss bank so they pay no taxes on it. Helps the country out a lot..

And I am so fucking sick of hearing "the rich create jobs" then where are they? They have had these tax cuts for nearly 10 years and the jobs aren't popping up left and right, instead they are all catching a plane to China and India.

I guess it's time to play the same card the Republicans always play. Why do the Republicans hate America so much? Why are they so unpatriotic? I know why, it's obvious, I just wish there was real journalism left and that someone would ask them that.

Flyer said:

PI do not need a break, handoujt or health ins. I earn all I have

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Flyer, you can keep getting ripped off by insurance companies all you want. The rest of America deserves and wants better for themselves. At least I think so. But what does every other industrialized country know that we don't? This is America, where the best country in the world... haha yeah

I tried to re read, sorry if I miss lead, I have no ins. I want no ins. I am what I deserve, thanks.

The republicans (Senate) have been blocking everything. They blocked $250 going to those on social security due to there being no cost of living increase (which is NOT a ponzi scheme http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/economy/social.security.fortune/index.htm , http://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2009/07/21/is-social-security-a-giant-ponzi-scheme.aspx , http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2008/12/is_social_secur.html ).

They blocked the 9/11 first responders bill. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/nyregion/10health.html


They even put it in writing. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...no-legislation-until-after-tax-cut-extension/


I too wished the President would show more fight. I've written the WH numerous times. I also think he could use some training in negotiating because it seems he is the only person compromising.

But not in this case. What should he have done? Let it go into the next legislative session when the dems lose control of the House? What is he going to get passed then?

What are his options? Let everything come to a total standstill?

Sure he gave in on the tax cuts for the wealthiest of us. But he, meaning we, got something in the deal also. The vast majority of this plan does not benefit the wealthiest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/business/economy/08leonhardt.html

http://www.economy.com/dismal/article_free.asp?cid=195430

You have to understand, the republicans are completely willing to let this country go to hell. They are completely willing to let this economy go to shit (more than it is) in order to win elections.

I believe the president needs better messaging. I think he's been too focused on governing, but part of governing is communicating what you have done.

And what has he done?

http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/


Has everything worked out exactly to my liking? Of course not, but I never expected it. I never though Obama was anything more than a human being and a politician. I think he's doing pretty well considering the circumstances. Sure, he could do better. Maybe if WE THE PEOPLE were more involved in our governance...maybe if we didn't sit at home this last election...maybe if we call/write/email our elected officials...maybe if we get out and get others to be involved...

YOU GET THE GOVERNMENT YOU DESERVE!

I took some time to learn about the original Mr. Ponzi from Italy. He lead a rags to riches to rags life, dying penny-less in 1948? Check him out sometime. I think his first jail time was for bank fraud...

The Pyramid Scheme isn't really like Social Security, but the idea that taking today's receipts to pay today's dividends is similar in that it can't go on forever ,especially with a growing dividend obligation and shrinking daily receipts.

I think they have "FIXED" Social Security at least several times in my short time.

Just observing.

True, there are similarities. But this is an agreement "we" have made with ourselves. "We" aren't being conned by some guy. I think instead of the fica tax being regressive, we should all pay on 100% of our income; the same as those working folks who make less than 106k a year.

The payroll tax cut is the worst part of this "deal". It cuts funding for social security. The unemployed get a ONE year extension and the rest of us get a social security cut. The rich get two years of tax cuts.

I still see no deal.