Pregnant vaping?

I took some cancer cells today and poured bleach on them. They died. Therefore bleach cures cancer.

Just following the logic.

Cannabinoids "healing" cancer (the studies dont exactly say that but thats the take home message many conclude). A conclusion that people take from the studies but if I had to bet $, I would say even the researchers of the studies would be very reluctant to say it cues cancer. In my opinion the likely hood of something curing "cancer" is very low as many cancers have very little to do with one another.

For the ones who wants to know what a cancer biology professor and surgical oncologist has to say about the studies read here (he picks apart many of the studies):

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/me...rbalism-part-2-cannabis-does-not-cure-cancer/

Cool that we jumped so far from "MJ isnt bad for babies" to "MJ is needed for mom's homeostasis" to "Fetus needs MJ for homeostasis" to "MJ cures cancer" (I guess every cancer out there since it killed them in a petri dish).

@OldNewbie we identified cb1 and cb2 with the help of THC ... if we had not known of THC we never would have found cb receptors... I looked into the 300 receptors claim a few months back from a study, cannot remember now who was proclaiming that many... basically because of how so many differing ligands can effect change @ the receptor.

claiming cannabis cures cancer directly is Folly - your endocannabinoid system and how the system signals for our cellular health is responsible for eliminating cancers via metabolic pathways the cells use to modulate their health and lipid signalling metabolism ( post to pre synaptic cancer elimination signals ) . no other cell receptors use retrograde signals save for cannabinoid receptors... when a cell has a lipid structure creating lipophilic derived signalling feedback loops of intracellular to extracellular ( the matrix) messaging what do you expect the cells to do with those modulating signals ??? if the cell is cancerous what would modulating / fluctuating lipid signals that go post to pre synaptic do for the cells ??

Edit- you can find mainstream info on cannabinoids via places like @olivianewtonjohn posted where they completely deny their efficacy ETC...

Pro Resolving Mediators ..... those are cannabinoids basically and there is great research on them via mainstream " no cannabis talk allowed here" type places

here is some info on those EFA pathways and their importance for expecting mothers and children ... Cannabis BTW acts on these pathways in case you have a hard time making the connection

omega three fatty acids and nutrient deficits in adverse neurodevelopment and childhood behaviors
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4175558/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191015092247.htm

OldNewbie said:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191015092247.htm

A new study using a preclinical animal model suggests that prenatal exposure to THC, the psychoactive component of cannabis, makes the brain's dopamine neurons (an integral component of the reward system) hyperactive and increases sensitivity to the behavioral effects of THC during pre-adolescence.​

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after just a few lines Big Pharma to the Rescue!
Quote " More importantly, the researchers were able to correct these behavioral problems and brain abnormalities by treating experimental animals with pregnenolone, an FDA-approved drug currently under investigation in clinical trials for cannabis use disorder, schizophrenia, autism, and bipolar disorder"

while identifying what this chemical does to the person we Add more chemicals to make it all better! pharma

C No Ego said:

after just a few lines Big Pharma to the Rescue!
Quote " More importantly, the researchers were able to correct these behavioral problems and brain abnormalities by treating experimental animals with pregnenolone, an FDA-approved drug currently under investigation in clinical trials for cannabis use disorder, schizophrenia, autism, and bipolar disorder"

while identifying what this chemical does to the person we Add more chemicals to make it all better! pharma

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It is always right to be suspicious of those who pay for a study. But, since I can go online and get a bottle of pregnenolone (180 capsules of 10mg) for about $6 at any of a number of places (Legally, you can just buy it in the U.S.), imma gonna go with theory there is no gold at the end of the rainbow for "Big Pharma" on this one.

Edit:
Besides, it might cut into the extremely profitable sales on all the drugs to treat schizophrenia when the kids get older. If they were to fix the problem as a child, think of all those sweet, sweet dollars of adult treatment that would go away.

OldNewbie said:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191015092247.htm

A new study using a preclinical animal model suggests that prenatal exposure to THC, the psychoactive component of cannabis, makes the brain's dopamine neurons (an integral component of the reward system) hyperactive and increases sensitivity to the behavioral effects of THC during pre-adolescence.​

Click to expand...

Now this is just my opinion.....perhaps a bit sharp but nonetheless....but you have to be in complete and utter denial (or a fucking idiot) to not try to avoid any and all drugs you can for the mere 9 months of the pregnancy you choose to have. Either that or you are a good candidate for a Darwin Award.


So, to those who anguish about this...don't. Just suck it up. We are talking about the entire fucking future of your child. How can an abundance of caution not be your watch word?

I really don't get the counter arguments except as an example of "don't confuse me with the facts, I wanna do what I wanna do".

Cheers

Baron23 said:

Now this is just my opinion.....perhaps a bit sharp but nonetheless....but you have to be incomplete and utter denial (or a fucking idiot) to not try to avoid any and all drugs you can for the mere 9 months of the pregnancy you choose to have. Either that or you are a good candidate for a Darwin Award.


So, to those who anguish about this...don't. Just suck it up. We are talking about the entire fucking future of your child. How can an abundance of caution not be your watch word?

I really don't get the counter arguments except as an example of "don't confuse me with the facts, I wanna do what I wanna do".

Cheers

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Babies in the womb do not even have biochemical cellular pathways set in place yet for plant cannabinoids to act on ... maybe some activity but not really... when thje mother ingests the compounds her anatomy aborbs and metabolizes the plant constituents...

Baron23 said:

Now this is just my opinion.....perhaps a bit sharp but nonetheless....but you have to be incomplete and utter denial (or a fucking idiot) to not try to avoid any and all drugs you can for the mere 9 months of the pregnancy you choose to have.

So, to those who anguish about this...don't. Just suck it up. We are talking about the entire fucking future of your child. How can an abundance of caution not be your watch word?

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I agree with you. Perhaps it's as simple as:

C No Ego said:

Babies in the womb do not even have biochemical cellular pathways set in place yet for plant cannabinoids to act on ... maybe some activity but not really... when thje mother ingests the compounds her anatomy aborbs and metabolizes the plant constituents...

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How old is that baby in the womb? 1 week, 1 month, 9 months?

C No Ego said:

Babies in the womb do not even have biochemical cellular pathways set in place yet for plant cannabinoids to act on ... maybe some activity but not really... when thje mother ingests the compounds her anatomy aborbs and metabolizes the plant constituents...

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With all due respect: can you link us to a peer-reviewed and published scientific journal article which states this explicitly and unequivocally?

I particularly hope the article will shed light on the following assertion, which I must confess to find deeply perplexing:

C No Ego said:

... maybe some activity but not really...

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Is the degree of activity in biochemical pathways – which you quantify as "some" – putting the unborn at risk – but "not really"?

Fucking insanity. The confirmation bias of this forum has reached a new level.

John Coaltrain said:

With all due respect: can you link us to a peer-reviewed and published source which states this explicitly and unequivocally?

I particularly hope the article will shed light on the following assertion, which I must confess to find deeply perplexing:



Is the degree of activity in biochemical pathways – which you quantify as "some" – putting the unborn at risk – but "not really"?

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ok, show a harm then... what harm is there? I'd implore you to show the same thing...
an article with a drug to save us from drugs is not it

@His_Highness indeed, @ nine months obviously there will be more access in developed cells ETC... But, neurogenesis is so involved with cannabinoid production at all stages too...

C No Ego said:

ok, show a harm then... what harm is there? I'd implore you to show the same thing...
an article with a drug to save us from drugs is not it

@His_Highness indeed, @ nine months obviously there will be more access in developed cells ETC... But, neurogenesis is so involved with cannabinoid production at all stages too...

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It is not an "article", but a study. It is just one piece of the puzzle. One piece that fits into a lot of others that seem to indicate it is not a good idea for pregnant mothers to use cannabis.

Theories of neurogenesis stages of receptors may or may not be interesting and/or may or may not be related to the study's results. But, EVEN IF THE THEORIES ARE TRUE AND ARE RELATED, we still have the study's results to deal with. Your argument, at best, only eliminates one possible pathway for the effects noted.

Here is a 5 year follow up on Melanie Dreher's study of pregnant moms in Jamaica, cannabis smoking moms versus non-cannabis using moms. Bear in mind that this is Jamaica, land of the big ass blunt.
The kids were basically the same at the 5 year mark, with the only meaningful difference appearing at the 30 day mark where the "cannabis kids" were ahead on a couple elements. Later on, no difference.

US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

West Indian Med J. 1991 Sep;40(3):120-3.
Five-year follow-up of rural Jamaican children whose mothers used marijuana during pregnancy.
Hayes JS1, Lampart R, Dreher MC, Morgan L.

This research provides data on the development of 59 Jamaican children, from birth to age 5 years, whose mothers used marijuana during pregnancy. Approximately one-half of the sample used marijuana during pregnancy and were matched with non-users according to age, parity, and socioeconomic status. Testing of the children was done at 1, 3, and 30 days of age with the Brazelton Neonatal Behavioral Assessment Scales and at ages 4 and 5 years with the McCarthy Scales of Children's Abilities. Data about the child's home environment and temperament were collected from direct observations as well as from standardized questionnaires. The results show no significant differences in developmental testing outcomes between children of marijuana-using and non-using mothers except at 30 days of age when the babies of users had more favourable scores on two clusters of the Brazelton Scales: autonomic stability and reflexes. The developmental scores at ages 4 and 5 years were significantly correlated to certain aspects of the home environment and to regularity of basic school (preschool) attendance.
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This is only one study but it shows extreme cannabis behavior results and there is a more reasonable option
of vaping cannabis in micro amounts.

I would never ever say that it is ok to smoke any amount of cannabis when pregnant.
I would never ever say it is ok to vape medium to large amounts of cannabis when pregnant.

I would, however, say that it is in the best health and well being interest of mom and fetus for mom to
vape micro doses daily, to supplement her endocannabinoid system during this time of extreme stress
and change.
This same advice would apply to everyone, absent the rare few with cannabis allergy etc.... that micro dosing
to supplement your ECS is medically advisable for almost everyone.

Micro-dosing can feed the ECS and help ward off nausea, morning sickness, pregnancy anxiety, etc which are not
good for mom or baby. Mom really needs a fully functioning ECS during pregnancy and micro dosing can help to
achieve that.

After all, what is cannabis but a wonderful supplement to one's ECS, in this case to help mom reach homeostasis/balance during this critical time.

ECS----the key to all things cannabis and micro-dosing, the key to a fully functioning ECS

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200117104756.htm

@OldNewbie ... that study claimed that giving pregnant rats intraperitoneal injections of THC (crystaline? synthetic?) with doses of 3mg/kg (equivalent to about 200mg for a human) produces the same blood concentration as smoking cannabis (all day? how much?)

Quote from the study write-up itself (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-57318-6)
"...Δ9-THC serum (8.6–12.4 ng/ml Δ9-THC) that are at the lower end of the range of that reported (i) in cannabis smokers (13–63 ng/ml from a 7% Δ9-THC content cigarette) 0–22 hours post inhalation, and (ii) in aborted fetal tissues (4–287 ng/ml) from pregnant cannabis smokers"

While the study's warnings should not be ignored, not all studies on rats necessarily can be applied to humans. Do pregnant women who use inhaled cannabis to deal with morning sickness consume a whole 1gm joint of 7%THC or it's equivalent every day?

archangelz001 said:

@OldNewbie
While the study's warnings should not be ignored, not all studies on rats necessarily can be applied to humans. Do pregnant women who use inhaled cannabis to deal with morning sickness consume a whole 1gm joint of 7%THC or it's equivalent every day?

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I agree studying rats is different from studying in vivo humans. However, our medical ethics won't let us dose moms to the same level. Stupid ethics. We do have a couple of studies where those who already imbibe report to the authors. There are a ton of problems in such studies as well.

I also agree this is not the final say in the matter. The best part of the study is the potential *mechanism* to describe how other studies' effects (like low birth weight) can happen.

Finally, while it is said the dose makes the poison, I don't think a good answer to the study is that they used higher doses than a normal user in like circumstances might use. At the measured levels, there is an effect. Asking if most use at that level is an interesting question. To me, a more interesting question is if we get the same effect from lesser usage. Perhaps usage levels down to the level a normal mom using for morning sickness would use.

Since the mechanism described does not seem to rely on dose, if we go back to the original justification for the study:
So I guess the real debate is if they were correct with the statement regarding "any compromise" would harm.

Yes... we really need much more research to more fully understand the endocannabinoid sytem and the effects of phytocannabinoids. All medicine is subject to a risk/benefit assessment.

archangelz001 said:

Yes... we really need much more research to more fully understand the endocannabinoid sytem and the effects of phytocannabinoids. All medicine is subject to a risk/benefit assessment.

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omega three and six are made into endocannabinoids via endocannabinid epoxides and amides @ the cellular level . Anti inflammitory W-3 epoxides https://www.pnas.org/content/114/30/E6034
Ingesting already created phytocannabinoids skips that step and goes straight to cannabinoid signaling... after all of it is said and done the end result is always going to be a cannabinoid signal ...
this ino helps a whole lot in the understanding - Importance of HUFAS/PUFAS for developing brains - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Importance+of+HUFAS/PUFAS+fror+developing+brains&t=ffcm&atb=v165-1&ia=web

@C No Ego I 'd like to say I fully understand all that you wrote in your last post, and though it appears to be above my pay-grade I get the gist of it.
What is your training?

archangelz001 said:

@C No Ego I 'd like to say I fully understand all that you wrote in your last post, and though it appears to be above my pay-grade I get the gist of it.
What is your training?

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I posted the link out there for just that question... everything I said is in those two links basically, well maybe not everything but close... the endocannbinoid system uses outside lipids ( essential fatty acids) to make signaling connections... we cannot synthesize those essential fatty acids and require them from diet for signaling purposes... the steps that forms them is described with detail and adding already structured cannabinoids from cannabis skips a few enzymatic steps to reach a fully formed cannabinoid signal.
EFAS via cellular mechanisms use the Arachidonic acid cascade to form cananbinoids from all of the available fats in the cell and the epoxide enzyme reactions.
and I received my training right here @ FC

"

C No Ego said:

...
and I received my training right here @ FC

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MinnBobber said:

After all, what is cannabis but a wonderful supplement to one's ECS, in this case to help mom reach homeostasis/balance during this critical time.

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A healthy, well-fed body does an excellent job of maintaining homeostasis.

Why would the ECS be any different?

Adding more of something does not necessarily bring about homeostasis, and can actually be counterproductive. Taking supplemental vitamins, when you already have enough in your system, is often a waste, and can be harmful.

Without proof that a person is deficient in any number of cannabinoids, believing that any supplementation with Cannabis will bring about homeostasis is wishful thinking, at best.

EverythingsHazy said:

A healthy, well-fed body does an excellent job of maintaining homeostasis.

Why would the ECS be any different?

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..........................................................................................
The ECS is a basically a bio-chemical computer that controls many body systems, to maintain homeostasis.
But it needs specific raw materials to produce it's "juice". Without those raw materials, there is no way it can
keep up the needed supply of endocannabinoids (endogenous to the body).

The most important raw material is Omega 3. Omega 3 is also sorely lacking in the vast majority of folks. One study said:
"Based on blood omega-3 levels, 95% of cohort did not reach desired omega-3 levels".
Other studies indicated similar levels of Omega 3 deficiency.
It is chemically not possible to make endocannabinoids without Omega 3s, and some Omega 6s.

That is one reason why almost everyone has an ECS deficinecy.
Other reasons for low ECS levels are genetic, aging can slow down production like a Calcium defic in seniors, the chemical
buffet we breathe every day in the big city, the microwaves that flow thru us 24/7, the stress of rush hour traffic, the stress of big bad bosses, .... a body and ECS that are under attack in a million ways.

P.S. It is no surprise on an Omega 3 shortage. For tens of thousands of years, our bodies got a Omega 3: Omega 6 ratio
of 1 Omega 3 to : 1 or 2 Omega 6. The current estimates are 1 :15 or even 1:20 Omega 6 with HUGE increase in Omega 6!!!
A very recent study on this was interesting too. Could you just take an Omega 3 supplement and that fixes things?
Not so fast buckeroos: It said that the massive amount of Omega 6 kind of overpowered the body systems and adding
Omega 3 didn't give you adequate Omega 3.

This ECS deficiency is why phytocannabinoids work so well for so many conditions, they help by giving the body adequate chemicals for its bio-chemical computer, the ECS, to coordinate the multi-faceted quest for homeostasis.

Cannabis = nature's miracle natural safe supplement to our ECS.