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Wikileaks-releasing classified documents tonight

FlasH

Downhill demon
This information is all very interesting and it will be interesting to see how the whole situation pans out. I personally think that there should be an element of transparency in government as the government works for the people, as such the people should have a right to see what their government does. It's ridiculous that people are labeling a soldier for free speech and information as a terrorist equal of people like Osama Bin Laden ( 1 ). I question whether any real change will come about from this leak though.
 
FlasH,

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
I think Assange has crossed a line here. I think his intentions were good, but he let the beast that is wikileaks get out of control.
 
Stu,

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
redheadedeskimo wrote:
In my opinion, an argument can be made for all of the information he has released so far to be published.
Really? I heard John Kerry on the radio yesterday imply that Assange had released social security numbers and the names of informants for the U.S. in Afganistan. Do you feel this is information that the public needs to know?

I have not personally read any of the cables,

No offense intended, but you might have a different opinion of this if you had. ;)

Flash wrote:
It's ridiculous that people are labeling a soldier for free speech and information as a terrorist equal of people like Osama Bin Laden

Well, let me ask you this; if Osama Bin Laden had released this information, would you feel the same way?

IMO, Assange has one of two reasons to be doing this. He either has an insane need for attention, or has an agenda against the U.S (or world powers). If calling him a terrorist is not acceptable to you, how about anarchist? The bottom line is the bad outweighs the good in letting loose this information.
 
momofthegoons,

OC513

Dabaholic
Well Assange was arrested in London last night.....will be VERY interesting to see how this plays out.
 
OC513,

Pappy

shmaporist
There are no secrets. Even secrets are not secret, especially after being revealed. This is more like a movie plot than news to me. A pleasant diversion from Obama's abandonment of his ideals and potential and the media's inability to report it. As I posted here yesterday there is nothing Assange can reveal that would surprise me or any well informed person in the least. He's simply the nutcase du jour.

Oh, and the trumped up sexual assault case -- now that really is a desperately pathetic hoot! :cool:
 
Pappy,

2clicker

Observer
momofthegoons said:
I heard John Kerry on the radio yesterday imply that Assange had released social security numbers and the names of informants for the U.S. in Afganistan. Do you feel this is information that the public needs to know?

that hardly means that this actually happened
 
2clicker,

redheadedeskimo

Well-Known Member
momofthegoons said:
No offense intended, but you might have a different opinion of this if you had. ;)

Would you mind providing some links to specific cables? I've read through around ten or so of the confidential cables, and I don't see why they shouldn't be published. I can't just instantly absorb all of the knowledge within the cables, so if anyone would like to link me to something shocking in particular within the cables (not an article with some politician stating what is in the cables), such as social security numbers, etc.? It would be very helpful to me.
 
redheadedeskimo,

FlasH

Downhill demon
momofthegoons said:
Flash wrote:
It's ridiculous that people are labeling a soldier for free speech and information as a terrorist equal of people like Osama Bin Laden

Well, let me ask you this; if Osama Bin Laden had released this information, would you feel the same way?

IMO, Assange has one of two reasons to be doing this. He either has an insane need for attention, or has an agenda against the U.S (or world powers). If calling him a terrorist is not acceptable to you, how about anarchist? The bottom line is the bad outweighs the good in letting loose this information.

If bringing forth truth and honesty where there was none is considered anarchy, then call me an anarchist. Why should the people that elect our officials be kept "out of the circle" when said officials should be representing us and our views on matters. Should we be letting our military kill innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan(source)? Should our tax dollars be funding parties for the Afghan police that result in little boys being sold as sex slaves (source)? Without leaks like this the answer is yes, as that's what is and has been happening. If you want these atrocious acts to keep happening then, by all means, continue to paint this soldier for free speech and transparent government as a terrorist, anarchist or hate mongerer. Whatever you call him, just know that it won't change the reality of what goes on in war and peace that our government doesn't tell us.

This was not meant as a personal attack as I love you and your posts in the forums and appreciate your help you gave me with my Zap, this is just how I see your response. :)
 
FlasH,
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FlasH

Downhill demon
redheadedeskimo said:
momofthegoons said:
No offense intended, but you might have a different opinion of this if you had. ;)

Would you mind providing some links to specific cables? I've read through around ten or so of the confidential cables, and I don't see why they shouldn't be published. I can't just instantly absorb all of the knowledge within the cables, so if anyone would like to link me to something shocking in particular within the cables (not an article with some politician stating what is in the cables), such as social security numbers, etc.? It would be very helpful to me.

Here is a link to the cable leak that I referenced in my post about the boy sex slave party.
 
FlasH,

Pappy

shmaporist
If there was a DEA agent on FC who collected evidence against each and every one of us -- like Donnie Brasco -- then ratted us out to Pee Wee Herman --- I'd laugh my f-ing ass off, wouldn't you? :rolleyes: :uhoh: :2c: :peace:
 
Pappy,

redheadedeskimo

Well-Known Member
FlasH said:
Here is a link to the cable leak that I referenced in my post about the boy sex slave party.

Thanks. I'm mostly looking for the cables that people believe shouldn't be printed though, haha.
 
redheadedeskimo,

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
Flash, no attack felt. Political conversations always become heated. One of the reasons I hate them. No one ever seems to agree. The same can be said about the emotions and conversations on this thread. It will be very hard to get everyone to agree one way or the other about Wikileaks.

One of the problems with total transparency, IMO, is that we will not all agree on how things should be handled. Then, there is no progress. Yes, we elect our officials to represent us. With that comes the expectation that they will do it properly. But our knowing every nuance of how they do their job undermines the work already done, and to be done, for the basic reason that if you put 10 people in a room and ask them how this person should perform their responsibilities, they will not all agree on how it should be done. Now, I am not talking about the sex party; I'll get to that. I'm talking about how our country interacts with other countries (diplomats, etc.). Making every conversation, memo, discussion public impedes progress. There will always be someone who thinks it could be handled differently. While we should expect certain standards and protocol be kept by these officials, we should not micro manage them.

Now, regarding the sex slave party. This practice (bacha bazi) has been going on for centuries; way before DynCorp (or the U.S. for that matter) had any involvement in Afghanistan. And while I find it highly offensive, I realize that there are many practices in many countries that I feel are unacceptable and offensive. Just because the world now knows of it, doesn't mean it will go away. The fact that a U.S. corporation paid for such a party does not set well for me since I feel that a primary way to start change is to lead by example. But (and I realize this might sound as if I am trivializing this) this sort of reminds me of the stereotypical U.S. company sales outing where the reps are taken to a strip club and bought lots of drinks and a lap dance. Is it good business practice? IMO, no. Does it get the sale? Unfortunately, yes. DynCorp bought the Afghan police they were training their form of a lap dance. It is an acceptable form of entertainment (for many, not all) in Afghanistan. I don't like it, but knowing about it has not empowered me at all, nor has it helped bring about any change there. Dog fights are illegal in the U.S, but they still happen daily; knowledge hasn't changed that, nor will it change customs there.

This problem isn't just with the U.S., who is being shown as a villain by Wikileaks. It affects all of our allies too. Now we are all pussy footing around each other, worried that every word and action we carry out together will be scrutinized and publicized to death. It is hobbling us.

This is so complex. Bottom line? We need credibility and accountability from our politicians. But how do we accomplish that? Maybe stronger screening processes prior to nomination? With pressure, will a politician maintain their own opinion and ethics? I also feel that the millions of dollars the U.S. sends to countries isn't accounted for properly, which leads to these funds being used for drug cartels and arms, etc. Let's face it; this is a cluster fuck of epic proportions. I don't claim to know the answers. I do feel, however, that there is a danger in the populace as a whole micro managing a job they do not fully understand. Knowledge is power, but too much power can be dangerous. And I also realize that I might be alone in my opinion.
 
momofthegoons,
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CountVapeula

Well-Known Member
momofthegoons said:
I feel this falls under that "we don't need to know" area. Shut the fucker down and don't explain a thing.


lol? that one really scared me. is that really what you think? seems not very smart, effective andor reasonable, but very "american" to me. :2c: *scnr* have you had some more insight in what was published by wikileaks or how come you can possibly think that way? i really can not understand - even if uncomfortable things are unveiled. those who had to secure and keep those cables safe are the ones to blame. don't shoot the messenger.
 
CountVapeula,

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
Perhaps my wording could have been better. I don't mean eliminate him. I mean stop the leaks. Smart or reasonable? That's subjective. Effective? Yes. I feel there are ethics involved here. Information is classified for a reason. Now, I don't feel that we shouldn't know about things that are uncomfortable. I just don't feel we should know about things that would endanger people or their security. Wikileaks threatens to release classified information.

I'm not saying our system is perfect. I feel that the military often acts inappropriately (remember the water boarding incident?) but that this is a system that needs to be fixed within. However, I am also not naive enough to think that major wars have not had incidents of torture that obtained information that saved many. Do I like that? Hell no. But there's nothing I like about war.

I apologize if my sounding American offends you. I am proud to be an American. This is a great country.
I think my stance is pretty clear, so I'll bow out now. :peace:
 
momofthegoons,
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aesthyrian

Blaaaaah
Assange should have worn a condom... :lol: seems that is the only crime he can be charge with at this time. It's apparently illegal in Sweden to have sex without using a condom unless you're married. Of course this is enforced about as much as jay walking is in the U.S., but none the less he is in a prison right now waiting to be interrogated and/or extradited because of it.
 
aesthyrian,

Qbit

cannabanana
Ha! Yeah I'm finding this whole thing very entertaining, but for more than just the reasons everyone else is (though definitely for those too).

It's just that I was at university with Julian Assange about 20 years ago. Not that we had any of the same classes (he was a couple of years ahead of me), but we hung out in the same computer lab (yeah I'm a bit of a geek) though he much more than me (I'm not that much of a geek). It was there that I got my first experience of the internet (though not the web). And I kept hearing that Julian was getting up to all kinds of arcane digital hijinks (don't ask about the details - it was all over my head).

I also played strategic board games against him and several others a number of times. I still remember my first game of 'Diplomacy', where he gave me a bit of guidance, and we teamed up for a few rounds before he then destroyed me. :D And now he's taken that theme and really run with it.

So yeah I'm finding this whole thing a real crack-up.
 
Qbit,

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Here we are almost 6 years later.

Have opinions changed much about wikileaks?

Wikileaks is about to release more of Clintons emails in an attempt to put pressure on the FBI to grow a pair.

As a Democrat, I am truly fascinated that our nominee is being criminally investigated by the FBI.

I did not want to tie up the 2016 thread with wikileaks off topic crap so I resurrected this one.
http://time.com/4365858/wikileaks-publish-hillary-clinton-emails-assange/

https://www.rt.com/usa/346534-wikileaks-clinton-assange-fbi/
 
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HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
Here we are almost 6 years later.

Have opinions changed much about wikileaks?

Wikileaks is about to release more of Clintons emails in an attempt to put pressure on the FBI to grow a pair.

As a Democrat, I am truly fascinated that our nominee is being criminally investigated by the FBI.

I did not want to tie up the 2016 thread with wikileaks off topic crap so I resurrected this one.
http://time.com/4365858/wikileaks-publish-hillary-clinton-emails-assange/

https://www.rt.com/usa/346534-wikileaks-clinton-assange-fbi/

Was about to make a new thread about Wikileaks, but glad I checked, as I will help you resuscitate this one! Should be interesting over next month too.

Haven't really seen this talked about at all......thoughts? They've dumped quite a bit over the last 4 days. Poor John Podesta :lol:

I found the bit about the CNN commentator feeding Clinton questions ahead of time to be pretty rich....

Just was a bit curious as to why it hasn't been really talked about at all......not all the emails are scathing or pertinent, but that's not to say some aren't. Aside from the already obvious media bias that is exposed, I found the validation of Bernie's claims about Hillary and Wall Street to be pretty interesting. Most common responses regarding the emails don't address the content...........telling IMO

Also, some great Risotto techniques amongst the leaks, and who doesn't love Risotto?
 

HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
The way the media is covering this is mind boggling to me......1984 levels of censorship.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/complete-list-of-wikileaks-podesta-email-dump/

There's a nice compilation. Please go to the email source that is eventually linked and don't get hung up that some initially link to Breitbart stories......you can always check the facts yourself from the links.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6616

That's a cute little one about a draft that a staffer wrote for HRC, on the basis that she is for TPP. Which she has said she is not for? But she's also said she's for it. Who knows? But they were drafting letters on the basis she was for it and not the other way around.

THIS one is great.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1637

Blacks and Muslims, professional never do wells? ..................................................

No media play, not all that shocking because it was proven in emails that Clinton News Network is in the sack (not that this wasn't already proven with the $$$$ donated previously but nice to see concrete "insider" info)

More to come I'm sure!
 

HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
7 days in a row of dumps.....

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/9272

That one above is pretty interesting. Shows that the State Department was coordinating with Clinton Campaign, colluding with press to put a positive spin on it, and doing so before they released it to an equal branch of government.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/10095

Here's a meeting with BLM activists. Haven't read it yet. The email only says: "
Please note that this was not a public event, so a tight hold on the attached transcript. Thank you all.
"

Seems good reading material even if not scandalous.
 
HellsWindStaff,

gangababa

Well-Known Member
7 days in a row of dumps........

Seems good reading material even if not scandalous.

Kind of like reading the Sanskrit bhashya explanations of the Sanskrit Shastras.
Commonly convoluted conversations about the obvious, cloaked in the truth of the world around, engaging, but entertaining only for the most devoted of seekers; and in the case of the Shastra, revealing the truth about the biggest, most scandalous interplanetary conspiracy.

BTW, this 70 year old is also happy to report 7 days in a row of dumps....
Regularity has advantages over inner toxicity.
 
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