How To Stop Smoking Cannabis - Weed Is A Real Addiction

Baron23 said:

It's is indeed physiological with respect to how it hammers the neurotransmitters and receptors in your brain. YOur cravings are not from simple habit or psychological reasons. Its set up by the drug's long term impact to your brain's chemistry.

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So where does your psyche start?

The kind of impact of a substance (how hard it hits, how fast etc.) is rooted physiologically, that is true, and it does have a huge influence on developing an addiction, but it still is (in case of cocaine) a psychological addiction. Not your body is screaming for it (as it would for heroin or alcohol), your mind is. At least that's what mainstream science tells me. My experience with coke is minimal, so what do I know. What I do know is that cocaine doesn't always need „long terms“ in order to make someone obsessed over it.

Siebter said:

It seems to me that you are not actually interested in communication, but rather in having monologues.

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I am truly sorry it comes across that way.
For what it’s worth, I truly believe the point is crucial to understanding.

Siebter said:

I discriminate between psychological addiction and physiological addiction, cocaine won't make you addicted physiologically at all – do some research, it's common knowledge and not misleading (why should I do that? I don't like cocaine). Research on nicotine has brought up quite a lot of new findings, including the one I've linked – I understand that you still believe that nicotine is the most addictve part of tobacco smoke, that's what has been told for many years, but it turns out that things are more complicated than that. That's why for example the „Fagerström Test for Nicotine Dependence“ which was the standard test for smoking addiction since the late 70s, was renamed to „ Fagerström Test for Cigarete Dependence“. Fagerström himself wasn't convinced that nicotine is the actual culprit for cigarette addictions.

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I will not argue the addictive capacity of cocaine, except to say that I had enough. I had friends who were dealers, I had all I wanted, for free, for months on end....
And quite literally hit a point where I said, okay, that’s it. Never did it again, never struggled with wanting to.
With a true addiction, that should simply not be possible. We are still learning about addiction, clearly.

This thread is a lot more lively than I thought it would be when I opened it

There are people who develop dependencies to different substances and even to different activities. I don't think the title of this thread was trying to offend anyone. I think they were coming from a good place.

But arguing about a member's personal experiences (and, to a lesser extent, studied phenomena) kind of seems pointless. Quite a few people lurk this forum, and there might be one or two who struggle with cannabis dependency. Maybe this is something they needed to see.

Just stick with whatever keeps you at , be it ganja or otherwise.

ClearBlueLou said:

And quite literally hit a point where I said, okay, that’s it. Never did it again, never struggled with wanting to.
With a true addiction, that should simply not be possible. We are still learning about addiction, clearly.

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1. Your story tells me that cocaine has no physiologic addiction potential
2. I very much agree that we are still learning about addictions and how they work. To do so, we need models in order to structure what we see. I was referring to a model that works well for me and has been used for a while by many others (which, by itself, is an advantage) – which does not say that it's a good model or even true at all. But when introducing a new model, you should explain more thoroughly why it's better than an established model

Peace etc.

Siebter said:

but it still is (in case of cocaine) a psychological addiction.

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As I said, I have quite a bit of experience on this subject and disagree w your stated view without reservation.

You are, IMO, completely wrong.

Have you had a cocaine addiction at some point?

Baron23 said:

As I said, I have quite a bit of experience on this subject and disagree w your stated view without reservation.

You are, IMO, completely wrong.

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So if it's not a mainly psychological addiction but rather physiological, how do you explain ClearBlueLous story?

What kind of physical withdrawal did you experience with cocaine?

Baron23 said:

Have you had a cocaine addiction at some point?

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I have not, but that's not really relevant, is it?

Siebter said:

So if it's not a mainly psychological addiction but rather physiological, how do you explain ClearBlueLous story?

What kind of physical withdrawal did you experience with cocaine?



I have not, but that's not really relevant, is it?

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Well, yes....IMO direct experiential knowledge is relevant.

Explain Clearblue’s experience...no, why should I do that. I’m sure I can find people who have done heroin and not become addicted. But that seems irrelevant to me.

The fact is that coke scrambles your brain chemistry and in particular it results in severe dopamine depletion and a complete hosing of relevant brain receptors. This causes enormous cravings for more to escape the withdrawal. And the overall impact to the brain has some much longer term deleterious effects.

It’s the reason why mice will starve themselves to death rather than stop.

This is based on my direct experience as well as knowledge gained while trying to get off of that utter shit.

If you think an addiction must be characterized by physical ailments to your body, and that this body doesn’t include the brain, then I’m not going to debate it with you.

But I strenuously disagree.

Baron23 said:

Well, yes....IMO direct experiential knowledge is relevant.

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And yet you can't explain which physical withdrawal symptoms you experienced. :-)

Baron23 said:

I’m sure I can find people who have done heroin and not become addicted.

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If we talking about more than just occasional usage: most probably not. Give it a try.

Siebter said:

And yet you can't explain which physical withdrawal symptoms you experienced. :-)

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You keep looking for some "physical" symptom and I'm trying to tell you that your brain is part of your physical self and that the direct impact to your brain's function is in fact impact to your physiological self.

Mice don't have psychologies or personalities...but they do get addicted to the point of dying rather than stopping.

You seem to feel that the insane, compulsive, self-destructive behavior that arises out cocaine addiction is not a physical withdrawal symptom. I find that astounding and a flawed view of what constitutes physiology. It simply "changes to the structure of the reward system in the brain, leading to compulsive pursuit and ingestion of intoxicating substances".

Siebter said:

Give it a try.

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I have....that's another area where I have direct experiential knowledge.

Might want to give this a read.

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/cocaine-treatment/is-it-physically-addictive

Cheers

I'm not going to step further into this popcorn machine other than to say, the brain is in the body.

As the joke goes, biology is just chemistry, chemistry is just physics and physics is just math.

So as with the body. While we might not know what physical characteristics come together to make a specific thought, it seems a priori there are physical things happening behind thinking. Even when we look at the so-called "addiction model", there are physical processes and cues that cause the thought. The claim is the reinforcement loop becomes broken and the brain actually changes to require the drug to feel normal.

Some might try to distinguish the more brain-focused physical changes to the less brain-focused by using the terms addiction and dependence. Even then, it will be a continuum.

I am uncertain as to how distinguishing them becomes of high importance or increases understanding.

Baron23 said:

You keep looking for some "physical" symptom and I'm trying to tell you that your brain is part of your physical self and that the direct impact to your brain's function is in fact impact to your physiological self.

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As long as you don't reply to my question where in your opinion the psyche begins, that makes no sense to me.

Baron23 said:

Might want to give this a read.

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/cocaine-treatment/is-it-physically-addictive

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The study mentioned in that article is not linked and I don't know which intention is behind the article, so I remain skeptic. My own research so far suggests otherwise.

Baron23 said:

I have....that's another area where I have direct experiential knowledge.

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Hm. I don't see why your personal experience or more precise: your view on your personal experience is of any help here.

Siebter said:

As long as you don't reply to my question where in your opinion the psyche begins, that makes no sense to me.

The study mentioned in that article is not linked and I don't know which intention is behind the article, so I remain skeptic. My own research so far suggests otherwise.

Hm. I don't see why your personal experience or more precise: your view on your personal experience is of any help here.

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Yes, I get it....you do not have any personal experience with the subject but are committed to your view.

I have a good bit of personal experience with the subject and I am also committed to my view.

Let's leave it there....but if you ever get addicted to coke, let me know. I can recommend a number of drug rehab programs for you....and I suspect that if such an unfortunate situation were to occur to you, that your view of this would be VERY different.

Siebter said:

where in your opinion the psyche begins

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Psyche...really? Personally I think its an old, outmoded and very muddled way to view brain activity.... as if it was separate somehow from the biological substrate it runs on.

Cheers

Baron23 said:

Yes, I get it....you do not have any personal experience with the subject but are committed to your view.

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No – articles that claim to quote studies without linking them just don't work for me. I'm committed to facts and plausibilty.

Baron23 said:

Psyche...really? Personally I think its an old, outmoded and very muddled way to view brain activity.... as if it was separate somehow from the biological substrate it runs on.

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That's okay and the idea is, while not new, very interesting. But in a discussion about whether a drug creates a physiological or a psychological addiction, it's not a good argument to simply claim that the psyche does not exist anyway. That's just bypassing. Also your statement shows that you use it only for the sake of having any kind of argument; the idea of a psyche is actually not old, it's still very new, while the idea that everything is basically physiological is old fashion.

Siebter said:

That's okay and the idea is, while not new, very interesting. But in a discussion about whether a drug creates a physiological or a psychological addiction, it's not a good argument to simply claim that the psyche does not exist anyway. That's just bypassing. Also your statement shows that you use it only for the sake of having any kind of argument; the idea of a psyche is actually not old, it's still very new, while the idea that everything is basically physiological is old fashion.

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Well, I disagree w everything you wrote incl your characterization of my response.

Have a nice night :-)

Baron23 said:

Well, I disagree w everything you wrote incl your characterization of my response.

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That's not relevant.

Baron23 said:

Have a nice night :-)

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You too, man.

iloveCBD said:

Ive written a guide on how to stop smoking weed in case your somewhere in your life where you need to stop, perhaps for a drug test etc. This advise is from a long time stoner(10+ years smoking) who has had to learn when to stop when the time calls for it. Not easy but a lot of insight that can help people who are trying to quit smoking cannabis.

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Addiction is very very complicated. I lost a daughter to opiates and addiction.

I've been in detox centres more times than anyone should ever be. The vast majority of the residents are alcoholics. Optiate addiction comes in a distant second, benzo addiction third. I've never seen anyone detoxing for cannabis.

Those going through physical withdrawal can have seizures, heart attacks, self-harm, and host of other harms through the detox process.

We become addicted to behaviours. That is why smokers struggle, that is why cannabis is abused, but to say cannabis is addictive in the same ways as alcohol, opiates, or benzos is not quite accurate.

Robert-in-YEG

You want to stop then continue you want to continue then stop. stop carrying on, keep stopping.

Had to quit for a bit due to worsen symptoms and needing stronger medication. Lost my doctor so was forced into pain management. Recently found a new doctor and no longer have to deal with a monthly pee test. Found quitting cannabis much easier than opioids. Now that I can vaporizer able stop back to my old haunt.

Its not too hard to quite vaping compared to other drugs. I would say caffeine is much harder to quit. (Ive cut coffee out, but cannot cut the tea yet)
As for cannabis, i would try a few things at once.
1/Clear out or box up all cannabis and cannabis related items(bongs, pipes, vapes, anything), and just have a small amount of cannabis on you from now on. I would suggest having no more then 3.5g in your home from now on.
2/Start smoking less(maybe 2 sessions a day instead of 3), and also, make it a point to have at least some of those sessions at a lower temp. Eventually having most of your sessions at a low temperature.
3/Start taking a day off cannabis once a week, eventually adding a extra day off, until you are only smoking a few days a week(for me, its weekends only).
4/At this point you should be about a month into your program, and now you need to pick a day, and go cold turkey. (Time this day so that you naturally run out of flower),(Make sure you have alot planned for the next couple of days, keep yourself super busy. Family outings, a new fitness program, eating out more?)

Hope this helps, Its a routine that Ill be doing sometime in the future as well. Ive smoked cannabis for 15 years, then quit for a good 10 years. Im in my 40s now and started back up on recommendation from my family doctor, but im not sure if im going to stick with cannabis for the long run.