I have the LB and Supreme... room for a PD?

Not sure about this one, so I'll ask FC:

I first got the LB as my only vape and loved it for a long time, but some of the negatives for me were no water filtration, weak hits, and took me a long time to get sky high. positives = converse bud, great taste, still get pretty high.

So I added a Supreme and a bong, to take care of the monster hits with water filtration and 'get as high as you can as fast as you can' type situations. negatives = hassel to fill/light.

So now I've been alternating with both, using the LB when I'm lazy or want to conserve bud or going with the Supreme when I really want satisfying hits.

So my question is, do you think I should get a PD? is it worth the 100+ or so? Can the PD offer significant perks that the LB and Supreme don't cover together?

For those who own the PD and other vapes, how often are you using your PD?

I find it a great addition to my other vapes and it seems to fill the voids you speak of. It is excellent for vapor-bonging because it is ready to go if left on 24/7. The PD is a pleasure to use, very smooth hits. If you have it plugged in somewhere you spend most of your time, it will likely become your main vape. When not tethered to my desk the MFLB rules. If I did not have the PD already, I would likely buy the MFLB power adapter. I think they will be great also

After using various vapes, my PD is the only vape I use now and I hit it thru my mini-beaker..............every single night.

The main perk that the PD will offer over both the LB and the Supreme is efficiency.

I don't have a PD but I do own a Supreme, it would be interesting to hear about the efficiency comparison between the two. Though you can pack it deeper, the bowl in the Supreme is pretty small in diameter and it works by Conduction & Convection like the PD does.

Basically what I am saying is, I don't know how a vape can get more efficient than a Supreme since you can pack small amounts and you have the luxury of a wide range of temps to extract every bit of vapor from your herbs.

dude i have the LB supreme and PDP. this trio IMO is perrrrrrfect no other vapes needed. LB for on the go with good efficiency. supreme for huge milky bong rips (+ great for camping ). and the PDP for way better efficiency than the supreme and still goooood bong rips. I give the thumbs up to pull the trigger on finishing up the "wooden trio of love"

stinkmeaner said:

Basically what I am saying is, I don't know how a vape can get more efficient than a Supreme since you can pack small amounts and you have the luxury of a wide range of temps to extract every bit of vapor from your herbs.

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The question is this Stink. Can you pack the Supreme with 0.025g (40th of a gram) and be able to get 4 to 5 nice very visible hits from it?

Due to the extreme small bowl of the PD, it will only hold that amount, and therefore, really encourages one to use small measured doses.

I don't believe that anyone here who has used both would claim equal efficiency.

Some have said in the past that a PD bowl will fit into the Supreme. I would have to do that experiment myself. I wonder though, if efficiency is also about extracting the full amount out of the herb and many have said they use the AVB from log vapes in other vaporizers to extract what's left, then maybe that should be factored in.

stinkmeaner said:

Some have said in the past that a PD bowl will fit into the Supreme. I would have to do that experiment myself. I wonder though, if efficiency is also about extracting the full amount out of the herb and many have said they use the AVB from log vapes in other vaporizers to extract what's left, then maybe that should be factored in.

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I can't speak for the WDZ or the Zap, but with the PD, my ABV comes out a very very uniform dark brown, just this side of black. I really have no desire to revape it. I've tried in the Ion and the Buddha, and to get anything more, I'd have to crank the temps pretty much above 400f and for me, the taste is so bad at those higher temps, that I really don't want to do that. I do save the ABV for edibles though.

But considering how long you've been here Stink and the various threads and numerous posts regarding the discussions of how efficient the PD is as compared to other vapes, I find it kind of odd that your challenging this. Don't take this wrong. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't. Just a bit surprised that your are.

I haven't used a lot of vapes, but compared to the Ion, the Buddha, the VG and the Iolite, there's just no comparison. I have yet to find a vape that can provide 4 to 5 satisfying hits from a mere 0.025g. other than the PD.

So if 2 PD stems=1 MFLB trench, How many PD stems fit in the Supreme chamber? (fine grind).

Wolface said:

So if 2 PD stems=1 MFLB trench, How many PD stems fit in the Supreme chamber? (fine grind).

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Hmmm.......I always thought that a full MFLB trench would be about a tenth of gram. Am I wrong on this?

If I suck up 2 PD stems of fine grind and deposit them into the MFLB, it is perfectly level with the trench shoulders. I don't have the Supreme on hand to see how many stems she will hold.

if the grind is very fine from coffee grinder log vape stems may hold a little more .035-.05 of gram i guess, a very full mflb could hold .17 of a gram, tho it may b not ez to shake up so .12-.14 of a gram;

Wolface said:

If I suck up 2 PD stems of fine grind and deposit them into the MFLB, it is perfectly level with the trench shoulders. I don't have the Supreme on hand to see how many stems she will hold.

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That helps a lot in visualizing... so 1 PD stem = half a trench. That's interesting becuase "efficiency" comes down to two things for me: 1. how high I can get using the smallest amount of bud, 2. how well the heat exchanger/set up extracts the actives.

So in the sense of #1, I think the LB can be used more efficiently than the PD, because when I want to really conserve bud, I just lightly cover the LB trench. In terms of #2, I think the PD wins because the LB AVB is never really evenly brown for me. In the sense of #1, the PD and LB > Supreme, simply because the SV's trench is so big comparatively... which leads to wasting THC on the exhale... ie clouds (which I don't mind too much, since the SV uses way less bud than a fat blunt or J. In terms of #2 or extraction, I'd say the Supreme is really great cause the AVB is always even dark chocolate.

Anyway, I think I'm def gonna get the PD sometime in the future, especially since handling batteries or a torch can be annoying sometimes. Thanks for the input everybody

5446ThatsMyNumber said:

So in the sense of #1, I think the LB can be used more efficiently than the PD, because when I want to really conserve bud, I just lightly cover the LB trench.

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Why would that make it more efficient than the PD? One could load a PD with half a stem too.

lwien said:

5446ThatsMyNumber said:

So in the sense of #1, I think the LB can be used more efficiently than the PD, because when I want to really conserve bud, I just lightly cover the LB trench.

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Why would that make it more efficient than the PD? One could load a PD with half a stem too.

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haha yea you got me, sorry didn't think it through since I don't own a PD.

I find the Supreme to be super efficent also , even with small amounts, Awesome vape IMHO.

lwien said:

The question is this Stink. Can you pack the Supreme with 0.025g (40th of a gram) and be able to get 4 to 5 nice very visible hits from it?

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and

Wolface said:

If I suck up 2 PD stems of fine grind and deposit them into the MFLB, it is perfectly level with the trench shoulders.

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I've weighed a trench load, and for my stash and grind, it's about .1g. Let's be conservative and go with that for a moment. I have also counted the number of [subjective word alert] satisfying hits I get from that, and it's about 25-30 (which is way more than I estimated, btw.) The ABV is an even medium brown. I could take it further but the taste makes it unsatisfying [there's that subjective thing again]. This seems to me to be at least on a par with the PD as described by lwien.

I have, rarely, sprinkled a small amount in the trench, about what I'd estimate a quarter trench, so ~.025g. I easily got 7-8 [alert] satisfying hits (visible vapour) from that. I avoid small loads most of the time because it's not an efficient use of the battery.

I don't own and have never used a PD (but I'd like to). My point is that with my stash and my technique I think I am matching or even exceeding the PD efficiency as described by lwien--and if Wolface is correct about 2 PD stems == 1 trench, then for me the LB is way out front. Having said that, this sort of comparison involves too many variables to allow any sort of conclusive result.

Since efficiency in vaping comes in different forms and is not entirely quantifiable, I'm not sure that we can say one vape, or type of vape is a clear winner in this area. All of the vapes mentioned here are top quality units, and the efficiency of any vape is determined mostly by the user, and technique.

5446ThatsMyNumber said:

That's interesting becuase "efficiency" comes down to two things for me: 1. how high I can get using the smallest amount of bud, 2. how well the heat exchanger/set up extracts the actives.

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To me, the vape that gets the most actives/tastes to the bowl, and extracts it the best and easiest, is the most efficient overall. This precludes subjective and perceived efficiency, imo.

In this regard, the Herbalaire (HA) would be the overall leader, imo. Since the extraction is so thorough, no grinding is ever needed, which means no loss of actives (kief) endured in that step, thus getting more to the bowl. All other vapes require grinding of some sort, since they cannot penetrate pieces or whole buds. The HA's unique flow design can extract so well, that you can even compact whole buds and it will still penetrate the entire bud, which crumbles to a dust when done, and is evenly and entirely drained, throughout the entire temperature range of 320F +. None of the aforementioned vapes can do this, although I've always admired the Supreme for its impressive extraction capability.

lwien said:

I have yet to find a vape that can provide 4 to 5 satisfying hits from a mere 0.025g. other than the PD.

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lwien said:

my ABV comes out a very very uniform dark brown, just this side of black.

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You cannot gauge efficiency by the number of hits since this has many factors affecting it (including quality of bud, size and volume of hits, etc.), and is just not accurate enough. Also, when you say good hits, that can depend on tolerance (and lighting), and is far too subjective to be an accurate assessment, as it differs with every vapist. If you have to take the duff up to a dark, dark brown, bordering on black to extract thoroughly, you are also scorching the plant material, thus releasing some low boiler nasties, like benzene and toluene, as well as some particulates.

As far as using small amounts, I agree that PD and similar type vapes certainly encourage it with their tiny bowls. That doesn't mean that it also extracts the best/most, though, or that one bowl is enough for most peeps, that's a tolerance thing as well. I've easily used as little as 0.02-0.03g in the HA many times, and get numerous hits and good effects off it, throughout the entire temperature range, for quick solo seshes (I am lucky enough to have a low tolerance, as well). And with no grinding and excellent extraction, I'd expect it to. A little self control/discipline is all that needed in this regard.

Most vapes can extract more, if you go to the trouble of drying, grinding, stirring and either re-grinding or finger crumbling as you have stated that you do with the PD. The HA requires none of this, so in effect, it is more efficient, user wise, in that you need to do less to get the most out of it.

pakalolo said:

Having said that, this sort of comparison involves too many variables to allow any sort of conclusive result.

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I'll second that sentiment.

Yes yes and yes.

I started with my MZ and picked up a LB and SV along the way. All 3 are very nice and all 3 have their place. I like to use them for different reasons.

Good comments all, but I think, when we talk about comparing the efficiency between the PD and various vapes, as subjective as this all is, we need to ask those that have the PD along with various other vapes to weigh in here. For me, when I compare the Ion, the Buddha, the VG and the Iolite to the PD, the PD wins hands down in the efficiency department. I can't speak for the Herbie or the Supreme or the LB being that I have never used those vapes.

Ok, out of curiosity, I'm going to start another thread and take a poll here (even though we don't have polling capabilites here). :/

So..........to those that have or had multiple vapes INCLUDING either the PD, WDZ or Zap, please weigh in here: http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=4002

lwien said:

Gins hands down in the efficiency department. I can't speak for the Herbie or the Supreme or the LB being that I have never used those vapes.

Ok, out of curiosity, I'm going to start another thread and take a poll here (even though we don't have polling capabilites here). :/

So..........to those that have or had multiple vapes INCLUDING either the PD, WDZ or Zap, please weigh in here: http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=4002

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lwien plz u chairmon of great medical cafe so try to get a herbie mflb supreme on demo/borrow & enjoy testin ; if the herbie herbal air is better ?

hemp;)goofy8cheerio said:

lwien said:

Gins hands down in the efficiency department. I can't speak for the Herbie or the Supreme or the LB being that I have never used those vapes.

Ok, out of curiosity, I'm going to start another thread and take a poll here (even though we don't have polling capabilites here). :/

So..........to those that have or had multiple vapes INCLUDING either the PD, WDZ or Zap, please weigh in here: http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=4002

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lwien plz u chairmon of great medical cafe so try to get a herbie mflb supreme on demo/borrow & enjoy testin ; if the herbie herbal air is better ?

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Chairman? No. Just a patient. I'd love to get my hands on those vapes to do some testing.

lwien sorry i misunderstood i read this in your post before and thot u know "I volunteer for Cornerstone Research Collective. More precisely, I serve on the board of directors of Cornerstone Research Collective, a non-profit mutual benefit California corporation."

hemp;)goofy8cheerio said:

lwien sorry i misunderstood i read this in your post before and thot u know "I volunteer for Cornerstone Research Collective. More precisely, I serve on the board of directors of Cornerstone Research Collective, a non-profit mutual benefit California corporation."

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Naw, that's ok. Understandable. That sub-head has to do with the author of the original post, which is Morpheus (Mike) who is the owner of CornerStone.

My PD is definitely more efficient than my LB, though again it all comes down to how you define efficiency. I'd say one of my LB trenches equals about 2.5 PD trenches if very finely ground; further, I have the tendency to kill my PD stems but leave the LB a little lighter because I like the taste the former offers better. As for the Extreme, I can probably get multiple sessions out of a nicely packed Extreme bowl in my PD, each have their place.