Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
As catchy as that tune is, what does it have to do with Underwriter's Laboratory, which does important work, IMO? (Sure the ILGWU does as well.)
Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread
- Thread starter vapirtoo
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- cartridges carts disposable oil warning
Vakas
Well-Known Member
Isn't the bigger problem just inhaling oil in general? Regardless of good/bad cart.
I took a piece of cloth and put it on top of the mouth piece in my cart, there was oil visible on the cloth after a small hit. If there was no filter/cloth wouldn't that oil all go inside and coat the lungs?
Which referring to one of the articles posted here leads to lipoid pneumonia..
Or please correct me if I am going all wrong about this.
I took a piece of cloth and put it on top of the mouth piece in my cart, there was oil visible on the cloth after a small hit. If there was no filter/cloth wouldn't that oil all go inside and coat the lungs?
Which referring to one of the articles posted here leads to lipoid pneumonia..
Or please correct me if I am going all wrong about this.
Hopefully!
Reminder: all those oils you see actually come from flower.
Flower vaping = oil vaping, don't let that pretty green stuff fool you! You're all dabbing, whether you like it or not
Flower vapor itself is a concentrate, normally you would have to consume all that plant material, instead some genius figured out you can just inhale a highly concentrated vapor.
Yes, terpenes are essential oils, which are in fact oils!
THC is an oil
Try your napkin test on your favorite flower vape next time, you might be surprised!
I think there might even be a picture on here of when I did that test with my Showerhead!
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darbarikanada
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the suggestion. I've changed it instead (for now) to "Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread" Hopefully that conveys the subject matter more appropriately, but I'm still open to suggestions.
CalyxSmokr
Well-Known Member
Nicotine and nic juice is toxic. THC is a medicine. Not saying you are wrong but putting them together is problematic.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Good article bringing in together all the different views. I like the use of the term "marijuana aerosols" for the carts. We need some jargon to distinguish things.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/american-society/vaping-a-moral-panic/
...Indeed, the New England Journal of Medicine study found that 84 percent of those who were sickened by vaporized inhalants reported using unlicensed marijuana-related products. Those who have surrendered their counterfeit marijuana aerosols for testing confirm Gottlieb’s suspicions. Vitamin E acetate, a thickening agent that facilitates the vaporization of THC (the primary psychoactive compound in marijuana), has been found in almost all of the products from patients who fell ill in New York state in recent weeks. Unregistered cannabis producers have been accused of lacing their products with pesticides, fungicides, and growth hormones, as well, in the effort to produce marijuana plants as quickly as possible, since the yield of cannabis oil derived from a marijuana plant is only about 20 percent.
Neither licensed marijuana distributors nor nicotine products, which use either vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol as a means of vaporization, should be seen as primarily responsible for this threat (though counterfeit THC cartridges have been found in otherwise reputable distribution centers). But the demand for THC products has outstripped the supply in many states where marijuana exists in legal limbo—neither legal nor expressly prohibited. In places such as New York, for example, where recreational marijuana possession is decriminalized but not licensed for distribution, disreputable producers can and do sell unlicensed THC vaping products. It is incumbent on the consumer to know the risks. The FDA has and continues to conduct extensive oversight over vape shops and e-liquid manufacturers, but that oversight is not extended to those who make illicit marijuana products. And that, so far, is the exclusive source of potentially fatal health risks from vaping. You wouldn’t know it from the press coverage of the issue....
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/american-society/vaping-a-moral-panic/
...Indeed, the New England Journal of Medicine study found that 84 percent of those who were sickened by vaporized inhalants reported using unlicensed marijuana-related products. Those who have surrendered their counterfeit marijuana aerosols for testing confirm Gottlieb’s suspicions. Vitamin E acetate, a thickening agent that facilitates the vaporization of THC (the primary psychoactive compound in marijuana), has been found in almost all of the products from patients who fell ill in New York state in recent weeks. Unregistered cannabis producers have been accused of lacing their products with pesticides, fungicides, and growth hormones, as well, in the effort to produce marijuana plants as quickly as possible, since the yield of cannabis oil derived from a marijuana plant is only about 20 percent.
Neither licensed marijuana distributors nor nicotine products, which use either vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol as a means of vaporization, should be seen as primarily responsible for this threat (though counterfeit THC cartridges have been found in otherwise reputable distribution centers). But the demand for THC products has outstripped the supply in many states where marijuana exists in legal limbo—neither legal nor expressly prohibited. In places such as New York, for example, where recreational marijuana possession is decriminalized but not licensed for distribution, disreputable producers can and do sell unlicensed THC vaping products. It is incumbent on the consumer to know the risks. The FDA has and continues to conduct extensive oversight over vape shops and e-liquid manufacturers, but that oversight is not extended to those who make illicit marijuana products. And that, so far, is the exclusive source of potentially fatal health risks from vaping. You wouldn’t know it from the press coverage of the issue....
Monk Debate
The monks do be debatin’
That’s a nice sentiment but there are a lot of things we cannot ingest in their source form and require processing. Of course we can with weed, which is good, but hash has been made from weed for thousands of years without any issue, so I don’t think processing the material before consumption is inherently bad. It does require that you know how things are processed and what happens during and after the processing. Everyone is going to draw the line somewhere differently, but I would not be so worried about rosin, hash in its various forms, or CO2 oil (as long as you know they haven’t put additives in after producing the oil). Now obviously rosin and hash don’t play nice in carts, which is where cutting agents come in. For me personally, I’m swearing off carts but not all concentrates.
Also, MDMA is not synthesized pscilosybin, it’s an entirely different compound with different effects and different impact on the body. It can be produced with a high amount of chemical purity. The problem is that it’s illegal, and illegal chemicals are often cut, as we’re seeing with carts. Weil’s argument is an example of the naturalistic fallacy, the idea that because something is from nature, that it is better than something processed or artificial. However, if you were starving and I handed you a stalk of wheat, you would die. If I handed you bread, which goes through multiple levels of processing (turning wheat into flour, fermentation, cooking), you would live. Consuming the source would not help you at all.
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KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Yeah they are convenient but we still can use 510 conduction/dab attachments like the Divine Tribe range, the Sai or the CeraWax to name a few. It spares you all the filling and diluting/thinning agents.
They are of course far from perfect in practice, with spilling, cleaning and clogging issues being a constant plague etc...
Monk Debate
The monks do be debatin’
Dry herb is far from perfect too. It usually requires grinding, it smells, it’s often still sticky, etc. Edibles are the cleanest but may produce a high too intense for some, or too long for regular use if you also want to do things while you’re medicated. Each delivery system has their pros and cons.
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Kilo Crusher
Member
I actually bought a 100g bottle of that Clesr Cut Crap. I had to figure out what the hell was going on with all the cheap carts going around. I made a handfull of carts with it. Right there and then I knew this game was coming to an end. I used those cut carts to educate a few folks. I have to say, those guys ended up being very appreciative. The warning on the back says. 18+ only, Do not get in eyes, Use only as directed, Keep away from children, Only use at suggested ratios, Do not ear or drink the solution, May cause minor skin irritation, Product intended for vaping only, If swallowed seek medical help or contact a posion control center. But the bottle says, Used to dilute distillate up to 99%.
The government is still saying some of the affected did not use THC carts. I'm a skeptic when it comes to government saying anything, always speaking their agenda. Also, is it a far fetched idea that teenagers would lie through their teeth about smoking THC.
The government is still saying some of the affected did not use THC carts. I'm a skeptic when it comes to government saying anything, always speaking their agenda. Also, is it a far fetched idea that teenagers would lie through their teeth about smoking THC.
mitchgo61
I go where the thrills are
Fantastic piece. Thanks for sharing. “Moral panic” indeed.
Had a chat with a local medical provider about this. “You get your carts from a licensed Maine medical provider? Had any issues with em? No? There’s your answer.” He believes this all stems from both dangerous fillers and illicit carts. Said he gets a dozen emails a day from California companies wanting him to stock their pre-filled “poisonous “ carts. “I grow my flower. I know the lab that makes my carts. I’ve watched the process. Stick to our licensed state providers and Maine licensed labs and you’re fine.” FWIW I found that very reassuring. (I wasn’t worried about carts we’ve been using for months now but it’s nice to chat with a knowledgeable, trustworthy local med dealer on this subject....)
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Pappy
shmaporist
It's not a sentiment or rule. It's a guiding principle. Cannabis buds are distinctly different from plastic pods and carts filled with a witch's brew of chemicals. Hash is a direct derivative of cannabis, e-juice is a pure bastardization -- mad science. Our lungs can tell the difference regardless of how much one suspends their belief. Knowing what we know, on what authority does anyone now have jurisdiction to delcare e-juice safe?
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Monk Debate
The monks do be debatin’
I’m not saying that e-juice is safe or good for you, and I said in my post that I’m no longer using carts. Maybe I misunderstood the quote but it sounds like a lot of concentrate wouldn’t meet Weil’s definition of “the source”.
Planck
believes in Dog
Toxicity is all about dosage.
Everything is toxic at some concentration.
Common table salt (sodium chloride), too much you die, too little you die.
The "war" on e-cig nicotine has all the accuracy of "Reefer Madness".
Both chemicals have few independent peer reviewed studies.
Results from independent peer reviewed studies, for both chemicals, usually contradict what is commonly accepted main stream "science".
Our bodies have nicotine receptor just as we have cannabinoid receptors.
Nicotinic acid (also known as niacin) is vitamin B3, which occurs naturally in food.
All humans have some level of nicotine present.
Many nicotine users claim self medication and health benefits just like cannabis.
There are folks who just don't like seeing aerosols. I don't like seeing your vapor, you are a luzer!
In all cases I am speaking about consuming nicotine, not smoking tobacco. They are wildly different.
Follow the money.
Tolerance and empathy is our friend.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Seems to help stave off depression and stay focused on work.
Azar raised an interesting point. Since JUUL pulled its fruit-flavored e-cigs from shelves, kids have switched to mint and menthol flavors in large numbers. Something to check out.
Even if e-cigs turn out to be otherwise harmless, far too many young people have become addicted to nicotine initiating with them. These kids will probably switch to tobacco flavor next, which should prepare them nicely for cigarettes once it's taken away as well.
CalyxSmokr
Well-Known Member
Many claim health benefits to nicotine usage? That is a conflation.
People can do what they want but putting nic juice with thc because of the delivery system is suspect.
Follow what money? Big tobacco isnt cashing in on vaping? Big tobacco hates weed until they can corner the market. What am I missing?
I know toxicity is relative. As in the difference between thc which has no lethal dose and nicotine which has a very low one.
What are these benefits? Something that needs vasoconstriction? Most people in the US are going to be adversely affected by that. Maybe for treating nicotine addiction and reducing appetite.
I strive to find thc vape carts with no pg or vg etc.
These are suspected of contributing to lipid pneumonia but are standard ingredients in nic juice. In fact who really knows what is in much nic juice.
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Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Altria doesn't hate weed. It bought a big stake in Canadian cannabis at around the same time it did likewise with Juul. Forgot about reducing appetite.
Nice analysis in NYT:
A Ban on Flavored E-Cigarettes Would Sharply Cut Sales
By Julie Creswell and Sheila Kaplan
Published Sept. 12, 2019
Also, the number of cases has apparently gone down - NYT estimated 450 a few days ago. Better diagnoses?
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
walkma666
Well-Known Member
Or are not even aware. I have seen some younger folks walking around NYC vaping carts recently.