Discontinued The Grasshopper

ChooChooCharlie said:

@brewbeer - you inspired me! Instead of opening RMAs for two dead ones out of four, I just bought a new one. It hurts so good

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Sounds like you and I are about even at five apiece. But one of my five was actually given away originally (2015) and failed after first few uses. It's been the time capsule in my daughter's drawer ever since, as yet unregistered. I believe this could be called OG. (But I'm old, what do I know?)
Come to think of it, she has 2 OG batteries that might come in handy for me!

guyonthecouch said:

Cool dude, sweet opinion you got there. I knew you'd fall for the bait.. Baron the predictable!!

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Yes, I'm consistent because my opinion is based on years of experience and specific consideration of this situation....the situation which has not changed so why would my opinion change?

Baron23 said:

Yes, I'm consistent because my opinion is based on years of experience and specific consideration of this situation....the situation which has not changed so why would my opinion change?

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Yes, you, me and a lot of other customers have been frustrated with what has transpired with HL thus far. But my response was to a post about the battery delay which is a specific matter which is somewhat out of their control. If you prefer to go by your opinion over factual info so be it, but I asked HL and they said they're waiting on the order to be completed/shipped. The user who I was responding to was stating they're planning on getting a refund for their battery order(which is fine), not great for business if we ever want to see our hoppers again.

What say you about Ghost not having their crucible holder in stock for months? This is a much easier product for a company to restock but yet they haven't. Even with their so called impeccable customer service.. so are you just being biased against HL for whatever reason or?

guyonthecouch said:

What say you about Ghost not having their crucible holder in stock for months?

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I'm not sure how you can even pretend to compare a crucible holder to something as vital as the BATTERY. A battery that doesn't last very long in the first place. And while we're talking about stuff that has nothing to do with the battery - where's that simple little stainless steel hopper case people have had on order for literally 3+ years now?

Also you realize literally every company gets their batteries from China right? There's nothing especially different about Hopper Labs except for all of their missed deadlines and delays. And yeah I realize it's a very custom battery but so are plenty of the other batteries used in portable vaporizers and other similar electronics.

Cheesequake said:

I'm not sure how you can even pretend to compare a crucible holder to something as vital as the BATTERY. A battery that doesn't last very long in the first place. And while we're talking about stuff that has nothing to do with the battery - where's that simple little stainless steel hopper case people have had on order for literally 3+ years now?

Also you realize literally every company gets their batteries from China right? There's nothing especially different about Hopper Labs except for all of their missed deadlines and delays. And yeah I realize it's a very custom battery but so are plenty of the other batteries used in portable vaporizers and other similar electronics.

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I'm not pretending anything, not sure how you're over looking my point when the facts are right in front of your eyes. The battery being vital has nothing to do with china's manufacturing speed. They take as long as they take.
Simple? Have you been following this company at all over the years or what? Do you remember what the first iteration looked like? What would you prefer, that they focus their time, energy and cash flow on a "simple little stainless steel hopper case"? Or fixing the main issues of the heater + running through a truck load of warranty units?

Yes, I'm aware of this fact. Please read my previous comments, unless you're being facetious.
If you are, please enlighten us on how HL should be doing things with their limited resources and funds and you can help us all out. Because clearly you have all the answers.

Anyways, haters gon' hate.

guyonthecouch said:

Because clearly you have all the answers.

Anyways, haters gon' hate.

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No need to get snarky, couch guy.

Let's play nice, folks.

guyonthecouch said:

But my response was to a post about the battery delay which is a specific matter which is somewhat out of their control.....but I asked HL and they said they're waiting on the order to be completed/shipped. The user who I was responding to was stating they're planning on getting a refund for their battery order(which is fine), not great for business if we ever want to see our hoppers again.

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Your reasoning, I believe, is flawed. While Hl may not have lied to you and may indeed be waiting for a shipment, did you happen to ask about any circumstances/details about this purchase? When did they actually place the order? Have they been able to meet all the terms of the sale, like a deposit or up-front payment (even partial), or provide even a simple line of credit statement to get the order in motion? Were they in such turmoil of the moment that they didn't know whether to pull the trigger on the batt. order or just shutter the whole operation? Do you have some inside track on information like this that the rest of us do not?

I happen to be one of the guys who said I'd cancel my battery order. Over the years, I've spent $860+ directly with HL and purchased one additional Hopper thru a retailer. If I decide to cancel a stupid order of 2 batteries "just to irk them for jerking our chain," I feel pretty well justified in doing so.

The one hopper (of 5) I have left that is working gets hot as piss on it's back end, sometimes gives me a shock or some kind of rapid intense heat right near the air holes, and I am limited by just where I can hold it so as to not have these things spoil my experience. I have decided that this vape is not the be-all-end-all I had really, really hoped for and invested in. Maybe some day it'll all get worked out and I'll be sitting pretty with 5 great hoppers, and I'll feel really smart (or not! if the batteries get much more $$$). For now, I'm enjoying more the vapes that work a little better and more reliably.

Cheesequake said:

I'm not sure how you can even pretend to compare a crucible holder to something as vital as the BATTERY. A battery that doesn't last very long in the first place. And while we're talking about stuff that has nothing to do with the battery - where's that simple little stainless steel hopper case people have had on order for literally 3+ years now?

Also you realize literally every company gets their batteries from China right? There's nothing especially different about Hopper Labs except for all of their missed deadlines and delays. And yeah I realize it's a very custom battery but so are plenty of the other batteries used in portable vaporizers and other similar electronics.

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Amen, Ditto. This is on HL and not us. True most batteries and likely many of their parts and components are sourced from overseas but they’re not managing it well as has been the case from inception. We can’t use the device without one, plain and simple, and their inability to manage their supply chain will continue to bite them - and us. I’ll let you guys continue the debate but HL continually shows a black eye, including the albatross of a steel case - LOL.

TGIF to all.

vapviking said:

Your reasoning, I believe, is flawed. Do you have some inside track on information like this that the rest of us do not?

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Short answer, yes.

vapviking said:

I happen to be one of the guys who said I'd cancel my battery order. Over the years, I've spent $860+ directly with HL and purchased one additional Hopper thru a retailer. If I decide to cancel a stupid order of 2 batteries "just to irk them for jerking our chain," I feel pretty well justified in doing so.

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My point being, that if a company the size of HL places a large volume order and customers decide to cancel(again, I already said this is fine in my previous post - sometimes people need their money back for different reasons, I always sway to benefit of the doubt) their order it does affect logistics and cash flow. So then to come here and complain about their "poor management" after the fact is somewhat illogical in my mind. But I guess a majority of other forum goers don't see things in a similar fashion.

Trust me, I agree that it's been a terrible experience for some thus far(not for all though). Waiting months-to a year for your device to be returned is nonsense. But unfortunately it's the only option at this point, it's a black and white scenario. Either we tough it out or HL pulls the plug, which would you prefer?

guyonthecouch said:

Short answer, yes.



My point being, that if a company the size of HL places a large volume order and customers decide to cancel(again, I already said this is fine in my previous post - sometimes people need their money back for different reasons, I always sway to benefit of the doubt) their order it does affect logistics and cash flow. So then to come here and complain about their "poor management" after the fact is somewhat illogical in my mind. But I guess a majority of other forum goers don't see things in a similar fashion.

Trust me, I agree that it's been a terrible experience for some thus far(not for all though). Waiting months-to a year for your device to be returned is nonsense. But unfortunately it's the only option at this point, it's a black and white scenario. Either we tough it out or HL pulls the plug, which would you prefer?

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If you have the privledge of information that's all well and good, just ease don't think the rest of us are dumb.

The battery saga began long before I placed my order for 2. They did not order a high volume of batteries on the strength of my action.
To answer your last question, I have adopted a pretty ambivalent stance, I have reasons to wish them well and reasons to not give more money than I have already. I harbor no ill-will, just some latent frustration.
Peace.

HL fixed my account email problem. Now if they could only do the same for my RMA’d unit (almost 10 months and counting). I seriously think they give some preferential treatment while the rest of us suffer from a haphazard process...

So, without addressing or replying to anyone in particular, I will take this opportunity to bloviate (great word and something I indeed do! haha) on the subject of supply chain management.

Almost all products of any degree of complexity these days have a widely varied and complex supply chain dependent on other companies and, in turn, THOSE company's supply chains.

For example, take anything from Apple. Huge and very complex supply chains but managing that is part of the JOB.

So, how is that typically done? Well, lots of various ways to ensure that you do NOT run out of critical components for your product.

1. Good contracts with service level agreements that have monetary penalties for failure to perform. This can easily include lead time for shipment and failure rates as criteria of the SLA. Alternatively, exceeding performance may be rewarded under such SLA if it conveys benefit to the purchaser (it doesn't always) Quite common particularly with "just in time" inventory management schemes.

2. Flow down of SLA provisions to 2nd and 3rd tier subordinate suppliers, if applicable.

2. Good demand forecast and related orders.....its not easy to read the tea leaves and predict the future...but everybody has to do it and it is indeed doable. If this is my projected demand, if this is my lead time, if this is the level of risk to to those two other factors, then this is what I need to order and when I need to order it to ensure I do not run out of supply inventory.

3. Risk Inventory - yes, shit happens and plans can go to hell. So, a way to mitigate that is to maintain a risk inventory as a buffer for the unexpected.

None of this is easy to do...it it was, people wouldn't get paid good money to do it. But it is doable and people do get paid good money to do it as failure in this regard stops production and sales and is completely unacceptable to customers in almost every industry.

HL has failed in managing this supply chain for a component that is essential to the device being able to function and critical to their customer's satisfaction. If this was their only screw up, ok....let's get it fixed and move on. But its not...its merely the latest in a long list. I have no idea why this happened. Some have speculated in this thread as to the underlying reasons....but we don't know and as a customer I don't need to know the background. As a customer, they can either sell me batteries which are essential to their device and sole sourced from them, or they can't. And if they can't, then that will legitimately color my view of their performance as a company.

I have always hoped HL would get their act together and still do. I still think they bit off way more than they could chew with some highly critical design features with way too much risk. And frankly, while they touted their credentials as engineers in the aerospace industry, they seem to have no had no experience or knowledge of how to run a manufacturing organization.

But I still hope they get their act together and that get to a point of being able to ship a reliable product (including spares and consumables), with acceptable CS, backed by competent management of the company.

With regard to Ghost and the MV1 crucible dispenser....yes, I think they royally fucked up that supply chain up also. But this is a GH thread and to me that's a completely unrelated topic.

Regarding the battery issue, I'd be interested in hearing how @guyonthecouch might reconcile what he's stated above

guyonthecouch said:

I asked HL and they said they're waiting on the order to be completed/shipped.

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with this direct quote from Hopper Labs posted May 30th on another platform:

"Batteries are in transit to the Lab. New regulation has slowed the process down compared to the past. They will arrive soon. It could be in a week, or 3-4 weeks at most we think. We can't wait for this debacle to be over. They will ship to ya'll asap."

Unless there's a definition of 'in transit' I'm not aware of, HL has clearly stated the batteries were actively being shipped to them nearly a month ago. Just doesn't add up. Not saying guyonthcouch isn't stating in his own diplomatic way what he believes to be true. It seems just as likely HL is being less than forthcoming. As always, time will tell.

I ordered a battery Wednesday and got my shipment confirmation email Thursday! Selected the premium battery upgrade option at checkout. Kinda pricey at $225. But it comes in a really cool stainless steel case that's disguised as a pen

ChooChooCharlie said:

I ordered a battery Wednesday and got my shipment confirmation email Thursday! Selected the premium battery upgrade option at checkout. Kinda pricey at $225. But it comes in a really cool stainless steel case that's disguised as a pen

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So new units are shipping with batteries but they don't have enough in inventory to ship them standalone? What is the battery upgrade option, @ChooChooCharlie? I checked their site today and it says June/July, and I believe their original ‘estimate’ (notice the quotes) was May. Something doesn’t add up with all of this and something still smells rotten in Denmark...

EDIT: never mind about the upgrade question, I figured it out nor will I bite. But it’s still laughable they don’t have enough battery inventory for those not buying new units. AND the “stainless steel case” should not be confused with the accessory by the same name that still has not come to fruition, lol!

ChooChooCharlie said:

I ordered a battery Wednesday and got my shipment confirmation email Thursday! Selected the premium battery upgrade option at checkout. Kinda pricey at $225. But it comes in a really cool stainless steel case that's disguised as a pen

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Vaporific said:

So new units are shipping with batteries but they don't have enough in inventory to ship them standalone? ...snip...

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I think some people are overlooking this point. They are allocating their current supply of batteries to new Hopper sales instead of shipping them out on standalone battery orders.

Same thing applies to bodies I think. I had an SS body from 2016 that developed sensor errors. I asked if they could ship me a replacement body and they responded that the bodies were in tight supply. But they have enough bodies to make new units I guess.

Omphaloskeptic said:

Regarding the battery issue, I'd be interested in hearing how @guyonthecouch might reconcile what he's stated above

with this direct quote from Hopper Labs posted May 30th on another platform:

"Batteries are in transit to the Lab. New regulation has slowed the process down compared to the past. They will arrive soon. It could be in a week, or 3-4 weeks at most we think. We can't wait for this debacle to be over. They will ship to ya'll asap."

Unless there's a definition of 'in transit' I'm not aware of, HL has clearly stated the batteries were actively being shipped to them nearly a month ago. Just doesn't add up. Not saying guyonthcouch isn't stating in his own diplomatic way what he believes to be true. It seems just as likely HL is being less than forthcoming. As always, time will tell.

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For all of you guys who always say missed deadlines etc from HL aren't technically lies, well here ya go. If that isn't a lie I guess I don't know what one is.

I have 4 new batteries and the yet to be released charger paid in full and waiting for delivery. From the genesis of the GH until now I have been a hater and supporter. I have owned 9 total, played the RMA waiting game for several/many. I currently have a new Ti and a used SS in my arsenal. 4 used/tired batteries and the new battery that came with the Ti.

After all of the growing pains, I am respectfully bowing out of the GH spectrum. I welcome the return of the funds dedicated to goods that are unavailable, and I look forward to donating the GH gear that I have to another GH supporter in the hopes it will instill further patience. Never received the coveted stainless steel case, or the "oils front end" Forfeited the cash nonetheless......

Ultimately, as kickass as the GH is/can be, I cannot be troubled with the ritual any longer.
I sure have enjoyed this thread, with all of its color. Thanks FC! I love this place.

Cheesequake said:

For all of you guys who always say missed deadlines etc from HL aren't technically lies, well here ya go. If that isn't a lie I guess I don't know what one is.

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It’s feasibe shipment could be by boat or in this case dingy. And there’s customs too likely on both sides. Both could be factored in their defense. But I’m skeptical and think HL messed up again.

Vaporific said:

It’s feasibe shipment could be by boat or in this case dingy. And there’s customs too likely on both sides. Both could be factored in their defense. But I’m skeptical and think HL messed up again.

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But they said on may 30th the shipment was in transit. They told couch guy more recently that they havent even shipped yet because they were waiting to complete the order. That's a lie cut and dry no way around it.

Cheesequake said:

But they said on may 30th the shipment was in transit. They told couch guy more recently that they havent even shipped yet because they were waiting to complete the order. That's a lie cut and dry no way around it.

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I stand corrected. I admit it. Something still smells rotten in HL!

As George Costanza said, "It's not a lie if you don't think it's a lie."

vapviking said:

As George Costanza said, "It's not a lie if you don't think it's a lie."

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Perhaps in current speak it's called 'alternative facts'? Either way, it's a lie and contradictory unto itself.

Now the question becomes when the heck will the batteries come in? How Seinfeldian would it be that they don't receive enough batteries to fulfill all outstanding orders for them and I don't get mine right away or (GASP) my RMA'd unit comes back before then (though I do have some old ones that work OK).
Hope everyone has a nice weekend.

Hi guys - well, I had sent two GHs back on RMA, each under their own RMA number as you have to create them against the specific serial number of the device, and last week they notified me, in ONE of the RMA tickets, that one of them was shipping back to me (supposedly repaired).

The box arrived on Friday and when opened, to my surprise, both GHs, MP, charger, batteries where in the box. That is, both the one they said they were sending back and the other one which they didn't say they were sending back.

So, I used them last night. The one they said that they were sending back (and did) worked ok. Not as good as the performance of my OG GH, but I ran the session at 4.2 and finished it at 5 and the AVB was nice and brown and the vapor was acceptable. As an aside, my OG GH performance was outstanding...I would run at 4.1 and rarely needed to go above this to get nice full extraction. But, nonetheless, the performance of the returned GH was acceptable and not something I think I can send it back for improvement. All good, right?

So, then I ran the other one...my OG GH....for which they did NOT say in the RMA ticket that it was ready and that they were sending it back. Performance seems to be just as it was when I sent it. Running it max'd on 5, I got Volcano poo looking AVB at best....still more green than I would accept from any other vape and the vapor was on the thin side. Pretty much as I remember when I sent it back.

I did, upon their approval, send both GHs under the two RMAs, back in a single box. I suspect that they fixed one of them and then someone just packed up everything in the bin for my stuff back and that the other one had not been actually service. But, this is just suspicion and I do find vape performance to be a very subjective observation so I can't prove it (and can hardly remember it as it was a bit ago).

The plan for tonight is to run both with the same herb and both at temp 5 and take close up pics of the AVB. I have a cheapo USB microscope that I use to post bud shots and the like and was recently asked to take pics of ground bud and then the resulting AVB and I did so...it was very illuminating. For example, I have heard some folks distain to grind their bud as they feel that they are damaging the trichs too much. Well, in these pics, I used a BCG w fine plate and yes, you can see where they are a bit twisted up but far from being damaged or at least they are still good with me.

So, I plan to do the same with the GH AVB.

Below is some macros of LA Chocolate from GLeaf after it was ground and the AVB that resulted in my EVO at about 1 o'clock on the dial. Its easy to see in these pics whether its been fully extracted (it was def) or not. So, now on to the GH.

Ground Bud




AVB from the EVO (love that vape)

Ok, I have somewhat surprising results.

This is the AVB from the one they contacted me to ship back and which I therefore assume was actually fixed. Killed the load in 4 draws (I believe...maybe did a 5th just to make sure it was as done as possible) at temp 5. Drew until I wasn't getting anything further.

Now, not quite as good as the EVO AVB, but the EVO is a horse of a vape and is not a portable so that needs to be taken into account, I believe. But, a lot more stalks left than with the EVO.

NOTE: all of this testing was done with the same exact ground flower. LA Chocolate to be exact (wow, its really nice stuff at 28% THC). Also, all sesh's were done with a PFE in an FC-188 as I believe through glass I can really honk on a vape and get the best results possible for this type of testing.





Now, here is the AVB from my OG GH which they did not contact me about sending back but which appeared in the box with the other one. Vapor was distinctly weaker...actually, just call it weak. I took 7 draws on it until no vapor left and it was as done as it was going to get. I actually expected it to look worse than this.




To me, the OG GH AVB is really not as good as the one above which I believe was fixed (although I still get flickering blue lights when drawing except when set on temp 5...dunno wtf that is about).

So, guys....what do you think?