What do Californians (and the rest) think of AUMA?

Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
It's time to up your stash a bit. Or, make sure you still have your 'ol friends. The...um...less than legal ones.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article227324114.html
California’s marijuana industry needs an intervention to avoid an ‘extinction event’

Once, the cannabis industry was poised to become a multibillion-dollar industry in California. Now, it could be heading for what its advocates call an “extinction event.”

An estimated 10,000 marijuana growers could lose their licenses in the coming months if California lawmakers fail to pass a bill designed to grant them an extension, according to Sen. Mike McGuire, D-Healdsburg, who has sponsored Senate Bill 67.

“The bottom line is this: This bill is going to protect thousands of cannabis farmers, in particular, who did the right thing and applied for a state license after the passage of Prop. 64 but their temporary license is about to expire,” McGuire said in a hearing on his bill.

Under Proposition 64, California regulatory agencies were authorized to grant cannabis businesses a temporary license, good for 120 days and eligible for a 90-day extension. In the event of unanticipated delays in becoming compliant with the California Environmental Quality Act, a temporary license holder also could apply for a one-year provisional license....
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looney2nz

looney2nz

Research Geek, Mad Scientist
OldNewbie said:
It's time to up your stash a bit. Or, make sure you still have your 'ol friends. The...um...less than legal ones.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article227324114.html
California’s marijuana industry needs an intervention to avoid an ‘extinction event’

Once, the cannabis industry was poised to become a multibillion-dollar industry in California. Now, it could be heading for what its advocates call an “extinction event.”

An estimated 10,000 marijuana growers could lose their licenses in the coming months if California lawmakers fail to pass a bill designed to grant them an extension, according to Sen. Mike McGuire, D-Healdsburg, who has sponsored Senate Bill 67.

“The bottom line is this: This bill is going to protect thousands of cannabis farmers, in particular, who did the right thing and applied for a state license after the passage of Prop. 64 but their temporary license is about to expire,” McGuire said in a hearing on his bill.

Under Proposition 64, California regulatory agencies were authorized to grant cannabis businesses a temporary license, good for 120 days and eligible for a 90-day extension. In the event of unanticipated delays in becoming compliant with the California Environmental Quality Act, a temporary license holder also could apply for a one-year provisional license....
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SMDH...
 
looney2nz,
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macbill

macbill

Oh No! Mr macbill!!
Staff member
California is growing so much marijuana it could crash the market

California has too many marijuana farms — growing too much product — and if nothing is done it will devastate the industry, according to a 2019 cannabis harvest projection.

Vessel Logistics, a San Francisco-based cannabis distribution company, found that more than 1,142 acres of cannabis farms hold state permits. They can produce up to 9 million pounds of crop every year, but the permitted wholesale market can realistically support 1.8 million to 2.2 million pounds.
 
invertedisdead

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
It's funny that they think this high priced model will actually go anywhere long term. Seems oblivious to me. This is America, you have to be the low cost leader to be successful. Which out of touch politician really thought all the old Cali DeadHead hippies were gonna be content paying 30% tax on every doobie they twist up? Do they have any idea how many joints these guys smoke in a day? Or in an hour? :rofl: It's no wonder almost nobody is shopping at licensed collectives. IMO fucking your customers excessively hard is more likely to "devastate the industry" as barely anyone that truly needs it can afford it. And there's really not enough snobs to support $60 3.5s forever.
 
Madri-Gal

Madri-Gal

Child Of The Revolution
macbill said:
California is growing so much marijuana it could crash the market

California has too many marijuana farms — growing too much product — and if nothing is done it will devastate the industry, according to a 2019 cannabis harvest projection.

Vessel Logistics, a San Francisco-based cannabis distribution company, found that more than 1,142 acres of cannabis farms hold state permits. They can produce up to 9 million pounds of crop every year, but the permitted wholesale market can realistically support 1.8 million to 2.2 million pounds.
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Don't worry. PG & E likes to make sure we get a big fire each fall. That should get rid of quite a bit.
invertedisdead said:
It's funny that they think this high priced model will actually go anywhere long term. Seems oblivious to me. This is America, you have to be the low cost leader to be successful. Which out of touch politician really thought all the old Cali DeadHead hippies were gonna be content paying 30% tax on every doobie they twist up? Do they have any idea how many joints these guys smoke in a day? Or in an hour? :rofl: It's no wonder almost nobody is shopping at licensed collectives. IMO fucking your customers excessively hard is more likely to "devastate the industry" as barely anyone that truly needs it can afford it. And there's really not enough snobs to support $60 3.5s forever.
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What he said.
 
analytika

analytika

Well-Known Member
macbill said:
California is growing so much marijuana it could crash the market

California has too many marijuana farms — growing too much product — and if nothing is done it will devastate the industry, according to a 2019 cannabis harvest projection.

Vessel Logistics, a San Francisco-based cannabis distribution company, found that more than 1,142 acres of cannabis farms hold state permits. They can produce up to 9 million pounds of crop every year, but the permitted wholesale market can realistically support 1.8 million to 2.2 million pounds.
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The government should pay them not to grow.

Well tested program, proven workable again and again. What could go wrong?

The invention of white LED revolutionized the cost of indoor grows. A sensible policy then is to bury the technology. Common sense!
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
analytika said:
The government should pay them not to grow.
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Instead, the government will arrest those they catch who sell to the non-licensed market.

The arrests for cannabis have not ended, the target has just shifted. Shifted to those who do not agree with the taxation framework the state has determined will raise them the most money.

"It's a nice grow you got here, I'd be a shame if something happened to it." used to be the phrase used by bent-nosed mobsters looking for their cut. Now it is used by government bureaucrats looking for their cut.

This is part of the basic issue when trying to get items over the finish line rather than convince the community what is right. Politicians on the left with small support from those on the right have pushed the cannabis agenda over the finish line. But, the reason was not doing what was right and true, but doing what was profitable for the State. A little slower approach might have resulted in a framework that is more geared to freedom and harm reduction over cash. I understand the Hobson's choice. We'll choose to have the privileges as they will give us, or go without. Except, no one who really wanted it went without.
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
One of the good things about regulation is that, at least, we should know the quality because of the increased cost.

Uh oh...

https://mjbizdaily.com/california-marijuana-testing-lab-accused-falsifying-results/
Another California cannabis testing lab has been accused by a former employee of misrepresenting marijuana potency numbers.

The allegation emerged because of a legal dispute between Oregon-based Green Leaf Lab, which also has a facility in Sacramento, and competitor 2 River Labs, according to the Sacramento Business Journal.

Only three months earlier, a different Sacramento marijuana testing lab, Sequoia Analytical, was shuttered after it came to light the company had falsified test results for hundreds of cannabis products.

Green Leaf sued 2 River Labs in January, alleging that Sacramento-based 2 River Labs’ former director, Renee Engle-Goodner, stole trade secrets and delivered them to that company, where she now works.

In a cross-complaint filed recently, Engle-Goodner claimed that at Green Leaf’s Portland, Oregon lab, she was asked “whether she would be comfortable ‘fudging’ potency numbers in cannabis products,” the Business Journal reported.

Engle-Goodner alleges Green Leaf CEO Rowshan Reordan said falsifying test results was needed to “increase business.”

Engle-Goodner also contends she was terminated last October by Green Leaf for complaining about a hostile work environment and that her testing falsification allegations do not extend to Green Leaf’s California lab, where she never worked.

An attorney for Green Leaf called Engle-Goodner’s cross-complaint “a way to distract from the allegations … (that) involve unlawful misappropriation of trade secrets.” The attorney said a detailed response would be forthcoming in another court filing.

Green Leaf opened for business in Sacramento on Feb. 15 with a state testing lab license that’s valid through Sept. 4.

The California Bureau of Cannabis Control declined to comment on the allegations.​

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Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
The first rule of cannabis club is you can't talk about cannabis club.

https://mjbizdaily.com/california-bill-illicit-cannabis-firms-advertising-weedmaps/

A new bill in the California Legislature is attempting to do what state regulators could not accomplish in 2018: Quash postings for illegal marijuana retailers by advertising giant Weedmaps and others.

The measure, Assembly Bill 1417, was amended to include language that would:

  • Require any ad for a marijuana company in California to include that company’s state license number.
  • Allow for a penalty of up to $2,500 per violation per day.
  • Allow for a wide array of stakeholders to bring civil suits against perpetrators for illegal cannabis ads.
The United Cannabis Business Association (UCBA), which represents licensed Los Angeles marijuana companies, said in a news release that it’s sponsoring the bill, which is being run in the Legislature by Assembly Member Blanca Rubio, a Los Angeles-area Democrat.


The UCBA specifically identified Weedmaps in a news release and noted that the bill would also allow for “a civil class action lawsuit because of the large number of potentially aggrieved persons who have been impacted by the illegal advertisements.”

“This unchecked ability to advertise has given these illegal activities a huge advantage over legal operators,” UCBA President Jerred Kiloh said in the release.

Weedmaps did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
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I'll have to disagree with the fucktard from UCBA. The "huge advantage" over "legal" operators is the cost difference that far exceeds the value to the consumer.
 
invertedisdead

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
OldNewbie said:
“This unchecked ability to advertise has given these illegal activities a huge advantage over legal operators,” UCBA President Jerred Kiloh said in the release.
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Lol these dips still can't own up to the 30% tax elephant in the room can they? Now it's the advertisers fault. :rolleyes: That's funny cause I see more billboards from recreational chain MedMen than anybody.
 
macbill

macbill

Oh No! Mr macbill!!
Staff member
archangelz001

archangelz001

FIRE!!
macbill said:
25 local governments sue over California marijuana delivery
Beverly Hills and 24 other local governments sued California regulators Friday to overturn a rule allowing home deliveries statewide, even into communities that banned commercial pot sales. Ultimately at issue is who is in charge: the state bureaucracy that oversees the market or local governments where pot is grown and sold.
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I think this retro action by the cities will ultimately backfire. If they wont allow storefronts they have to allow delivery. It wont be stopped.
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
https://www.apnews.com/52dab5d9a5734efd817cd1c6802b7f6f

I'm not sure it's hypocritical for those selling weed under regulations want those selling weed not under regulations to be arrested (see last paragraph), but there's got to be some word for it.

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The legal marijuana industry urged Los Angeles City Hall on Monday to get tougher with illegal shops that are gouging their businesses in open sight.

Illegal pot shops are widespread throughout Los Angeles and typically look like the real thing. And they’re thriving — they sell cheaper products than their legal rivals because they don’t charge hefty state and local taxes.

In a letter Monday, the industry group Southern California Coalition recommended the city consider seizing cannabis inventory and cash from illegal shops that are found to be selling tainted products.

In the legal market, marijuana, concentrates, cookies and other products must be tested by independent labs for consumer safety — a requirement that illegal shops can ignore.

The group said that the failure to seize cash and pot products from illegal shops after raids allows the business to quickly reopen.

With no testing safeguards in place in the illegal market “there’s a high probability the ... cannabis products in these shops are contaminated,” the group wrote.

They urged the city “in the strongest possible terms to continue testing cannabis ... in unlicensed shops.”

California’s effort to transform its longstanding illegal and medicinal marijuana markets into a unified, multibillion-dollar industry kicked off last year. But the transition has been uneven and it’s likely to take years for the legal market to find its footing.

Many communities ban marijuana sales and growing, leaving residents in those places without access to legal shops. Businesses complain about hefty tax rates that can approach 50 percent in some communities, which they say drive consumers into the tax-free illicit market. There’s on ongoing fight over home deliveries, and a promised tax windfall never arrived.

There have been problems in other states with legal marijuana. In Nevada, a court fight is underway after some businesses charged that the state system for awarding licenses is unfair. In Oregon last year, an excess of marijuana in the supply chain prompted regulators to suspend processing new applications for marijuana business licenses.

In Los Angeles, the industry group said that many legal shops are being driven toward bankruptcy because they are surrounded by rogue shops undercutting them.

Because of taxes and heavy regulatory fees, legal operators “cannot compete with illicit operators,” the group said.

The group also recommended ticketing employees at rogue shops to discourage them from returning, and having building inspectors always accompany police on raids to close down unsafe structures. They also suggested the city consider placing tax liens on illegal shops.
​
 
invertedisdead

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
OldNewbie said:
https://www.apnews.com/52dab5d9a5734efd817cd1c6802b7f6f

I'm not sure it's hypocritical for those selling weed under regulations want those selling weed not under regulations to be arrested (see last paragraph), but there's got to be some word for it.

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The legal marijuana industry urged Los Angeles City Hall on Monday to get tougher with illegal shops that are gouging their businesses in open sight.

Illegal pot shops are widespread throughout Los Angeles and typically look like the real thing. And they’re thriving — they sell cheaper products than their legal rivals because they don’t charge hefty state and local taxes.

In a letter Monday, the industry group Southern California Coalition recommended the city consider seizing cannabis inventory and cash from illegal shops that are found to be selling tainted products.

In the legal market, marijuana, concentrates, cookies and other products must be tested by independent labs for consumer safety — a requirement that illegal shops can ignore.

The group said that the failure to seize cash and pot products from illegal shops after raids allows the business to quickly reopen.

With no testing safeguards in place in the illegal market “there’s a high probability the ... cannabis products in these shops are contaminated,” the group wrote.

They urged the city “in the strongest possible terms to continue testing cannabis ... in unlicensed shops.”

California’s effort to transform its longstanding illegal and medicinal marijuana markets into a unified, multibillion-dollar industry kicked off last year. But the transition has been uneven and it’s likely to take years for the legal market to find its footing.

Many communities ban marijuana sales and growing, leaving residents in those places without access to legal shops. Businesses complain about hefty tax rates that can approach 50 percent in some communities, which they say drive consumers into the tax-free illicit market. There’s on ongoing fight over home deliveries, and a promised tax windfall never arrived.

There have been problems in other states with legal marijuana. In Nevada, a court fight is underway after some businesses charged that the state system for awarding licenses is unfair. In Oregon last year, an excess of marijuana in the supply chain prompted regulators to suspend processing new applications for marijuana business licenses.

In Los Angeles, the industry group said that many legal shops are being driven toward bankruptcy because they are surrounded by rogue shops undercutting them.

Because of taxes and heavy regulatory fees, legal operators “cannot compete with illicit operators,” the group said.

The group also recommended ticketing employees at rogue shops to discourage them from returning, and having building inspectors always accompany police on raids to close down unsafe structures. They also suggested the city consider placing tax liens on illegal shops.
​
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Notice how every time these discussions arise, the answer is NEVER to revise a more reasonable tax system which would actually encourage people to shop with legal collectives? I don't think I've seen a single "report" where gov greed has been mentioned as having anything to do with this "problem."


I don't see what all the hubbub is about - Undercutting retail prices and not paying taxes is as American as it gets!

These articles always make it so blatantly obvious that the various state legislature involved in issuing these permits aren't happy about the lack of ROI they were promised.
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
invertedisdead said:
These articles always make it so blatantly obvious that the various state legislature involved in issuing these permits aren't happy about the lack of ROI they were promised.
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It's all about money. It is their motivation. Before government got its cheese, marijuana was evil. Now, cannabis is OK, as long as the toll is paid.

Except, the government isn't doing anything to earn the toll.

It's like the government demanded money simply to allow us to be free.

I thought We the People were in charge.
 
CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
OldNewbie said:
https://www.apnews.com/52dab5d9a5734efd817cd1c6802b7f6f

I'm not sure it's hypocritical for those selling weed under regulations want those selling weed not under regulations to be arrested (see last paragraph), but there's got to be some word for it.

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The legal marijuana industry urged Los Angeles City Hall on Monday to get tougher with illegal shops that are gouging their businesses in open sight.

Illegal pot shops are widespread throughout Los Angeles and typically look like the real thing. And they’re thriving — they sell cheaper products than their legal rivals because they don’t charge hefty state and local taxes.

In a letter Monday, the industry group Southern California Coalition recommended the city consider seizing cannabis inventory and cash from illegal shops that are found to be selling tainted products.

In the legal market, marijuana, concentrates, cookies and other products must be tested by independent labs for consumer safety — a requirement that illegal shops can ignore.

The group said that the failure to seize cash and pot products from illegal shops after raids allows the business to quickly reopen.

With no testing safeguards in place in the illegal market “there’s a high probability the ... cannabis products in these shops are contaminated,” the group wrote.

They urged the city “in the strongest possible terms to continue testing cannabis ... in unlicensed shops.”

California’s effort to transform its longstanding illegal and medicinal marijuana markets into a unified, multibillion-dollar industry kicked off last year. But the transition has been uneven and it’s likely to take years for the legal market to find its footing.

Many communities ban marijuana sales and growing, leaving residents in those places without access to legal shops. Businesses complain about hefty tax rates that can approach 50 percent in some communities, which they say drive consumers into the tax-free illicit market. There’s on ongoing fight over home deliveries, and a promised tax windfall never arrived.

There have been problems in other states with legal marijuana. In Nevada, a court fight is underway after some businesses charged that the state system for awarding licenses is unfair. In Oregon last year, an excess of marijuana in the supply chain prompted regulators to suspend processing new applications for marijuana business licenses.

In Los Angeles, the industry group said that many legal shops are being driven toward bankruptcy because they are surrounded by rogue shops undercutting them.

Because of taxes and heavy regulatory fees, legal operators “cannot compete with illicit operators,” the group said.

The group also recommended ticketing employees at rogue shops to discourage them from returning, and having building inspectors always accompany police on raids to close down unsafe structures. They also suggested the city consider placing tax liens on illegal shops.
​
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California can’t have it both ways. There’s no way the legal shops can survive. I agree too high of taxes screws it up for everyone.

We have no illegal shops in WA state because they were shut down after the transition.

We have high taxes and prices are a lot compared to some black markets. You can find some reasonable prices though. Some prime oil 84% THC at $30 a gram plus I get 5% off because I’m over 55. I buy on Sundays or Wednesdays and I get another 5% off so a total of 10% usually for me. I buy 2 grams for $54.
 
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Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
CarolKing said:
California can’t have it both ways. There’s no way the legal shops can survive. I agree too high of taxes screws it up for everyone.

We have no illegal shops in WA state because they were shut down after the transition.
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Both ways? Fine. Get rid of the "legal" places to sell and just make selling, possession and manufacture legal. Government is not proving any benefits for the taxes other than some oversight over the testing process. (And, of course, armed protection for the "legal" sellers and an attempt to limit production to keep up prices for said sellers.) Something that could easily be handled within the previous legal environment through normal food and drug and advertising regulations.
 
C No Ego

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
I got nothing to Add... I've come up with every possible scenario to conform to how it is but no Go Bro... just plain fucked We All Are
 
ClearBlueLou

ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
The question was never “legalization vs prohibition”; it was always legalization-regulation vs decriminalization-deregulation. I fell for it as much as anyone. We know better now.

ALL of my congressional representatives are professional Republicans, so I don’t expect them to do as I say, but I tell them once or twice a month that cosponsoring descheduling and regularization measures and remedies would look good on their report cards come election time, and ‘20 looks like a tough year for GOP
 
Madri-Gal

Madri-Gal

Child Of The Revolution
Californian's want it both ways? Really? We don't want to be taxed until we can't afford meds. Let us be judged because we're Californians and you know how we are, wanting access to safe meds that we can access and afford. Wait, that's three things! I guess we are unreasonable after all.

The Californians I know want to be able to go to a dispensary within reasonable distance/proximity to their homes, depending on if they are "not in my neighborhood" types or not, or be able to have it delivered. Decent quality meds, not toxic or poisoned, affordable and not unreasonably taxed. Most of us aren't in business trying to make a profit from cannabis, or that involved in keeping up on who we think should make the most money off of legal cannabis. Some of us want to grow our own, as a hobby or way to afford medication. Maybe because I'm a Californian I assumed this is what most mmj users wanted. Oh, most Californians I know that use meds, want this for others as well as themselves.
 
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CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I stated above “high taxes screws it up for everyone”. Be careful what you wish for. The politicians and those in local government will pit profits over sick folks. I liked it better where I live when we just had medical cannabis.

We voted for legal cannabis in 2012 it took a while for the shops to transition over. My favorite family owned medical cannabis dispensary didn’t get a license and had to close. They were too slow about closing and were shut down by the sheriffs dept. They owed quite a bit of money in legal fees on top of everything else.
It wasn’t right how some shops got a license and others didn’t. They were told if they were up to date paying their taxes and had been in business since 2010 they would be grand fathered in. The state lied to the medical dispensary owners. When they realized the false info it was too late for them.
 
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Madri-Gal

Madri-Gal

Child Of The Revolution
I'm not sure what "Be careful what you wish for" means in this case. I certainly don't wish cannabis to be illegal, or legal only for some. I'm also not wishing harsh and unfair business practices on anyone. There are sometimes unintended consequences, but there would be unintended consequences to bad wishes as well as good. I don't begrudge recreational users the use of cannabis. Perhaps it can help keep them healthy so they don't end up medical users. Recreational users also are known to vote, so they get to help decide questions about legality. For all I know, many if these people helped make medical marijuana legal in the first place. To say just because I hurt, or I am sick so I should get something that I begrudge the healthy isn't something I would say. I also know that just because someone doesn't get a script, doesn't mean they don't need it. It's possible they can't afford it, or figure there isn't a point because they can buy it without the bother. Everyone gets a headache, or maybe a backache at times, or has a sleepless night, or ten sleepless nights. Exactly how sick, and how often should I say someone has to be before they get to be a med patient? Shouldn't recreational users be able to use cannabis instead of OTC meds ? No one is 100% healthy all the time. Is it just the process of someone getting a script that makes someone sick enough? Can we trust that ( gasp!) recreational users weren't sneaking in somehow as med users? Do I care? No, I do not. If another adult decides cannabis is for them, well hey, they might want to check out vaping because it's awesome, and I hope they can get safe, decent meds without being over taxed or bankrupted, etc. This doesn't mean I'm trying to run Mom and Pop pot shop businesses out of business. I'm for Mom and Pop, but maybe less so if Mom and Pop try to stop other Moms and Pops from having a Mom and Pop pot shop as well. Maybe it's a California thing, but I think more cannabis users the better. I feel bad for people with health problems. I feel bad I have health problems. I don't want people to suffer poor health before they can have the benefits cannabis offers. There isn't a cannabis shortage, so no need to ration it for a "deserving" few, or fear unintended consequences. :2c:
 
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