Efficiency of Vaping versus Smoking.

In the following thread, the conversation has morphed into how much one can or cannot potentially save in using less bud when they vape than when they smoke. Some of you may find this debate interesting while others may have some valuable input, so if you're interested, here it is:

http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=3721

Gah! I just tried to get that thread back on track.

pakalolo said:

Gah! I just tried to get that thread back on track.

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Now I just feel like I took a hose to a backfire.

I know I am using less vaporizing, and it's a good thing too. I couldn't afford my medicine at all if I couldn't stretch out my supply as long as possible.

Here is a copy and paste of my personal experience:


I used at least a couple grams a day, when I was combusting. My usage decreased to a gram a day with my Vapor Warez. Now that I am using my Launch Box exclusively, I am only using 2-3 grams a week now. I am still vaporizing throughout the day to medicate myself, I'm just using far less.

To get a better perspective if we could generally understand the difference between medical and recreational users and comment for the benefit of all viewers is what I hope to achieve at best.

Generally for those who smoke little I recommend the PD and Zaps and the like but when it comes to mid to heavy users I do my best to explain they may not achieve the results that vaporizers hype. I have never proclaimed saving in vaping an "absolute" benefit. I have stated the potential of savings but I am clear to point to out that I believe its more accurate to determine that by weighing your use compared to similar vapist who use similarly.

As a result. I have never had someone come to me and ask me why they are not achieving the results that others said but I have had more than a few handfuls of PM's via several sites asking why they did not achieve the end results some have reported, they not having spoke to me prior. Thus in part this is why I make it a point to state my perspective on the issue. At the end of the day more than a few times I have been speaking to people who claim to be ill and are not achieving the savings in vaping and wondering why.

So part of my issue is I see a disconnect in advice potentially between healthy and differing degrees of ill of people with advice given generically vague on stereotypical ideological results and viewpoints. I do not fault Iwien or anyone for their views but I say we need to appreciate our community better and as active participants we should not be so single minded in our views as to prescribe to a stereotypical view. Now I am not saying to be some kind of efficiency nazi but my stance it is wrong to claim as a matter of fact people will save by the use of a vaporizer. That is all.

Though, it should be understood by those who do not know my background here. I am here from a medical perspective and not so much a recreational one. The waters sometimes muddies when the two perspectives meet but harm is done no matter how well intentioned we are if the result is ineffective.

No matter how harsh I may write a word I got nothing but one love for use all.l

Beezleb said:

Now I am not saying to be some kind of efficiency nazi but my stance it is wrong to claim as a matter of fact people will save by the use of a vaporizer.

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Godwinned already.

This is a misrepresentation of the argument. I don't think anyone has claimed savings to be a matter of fact. What I do believe is that most vaporists can probably achieve some savings, and some can double or triple their efficiency.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that you don't achieve at least double efficiency over joints, for the simple reason that smoking a jay means a good portion of the material simply burns off into the air. Bongs and such are more efficient at letting you capture the smoke, so there's more of a debate to be had there.

Beezleb said:

I do not fault Iwien or anyone for their views but I say we need to appreciate our community better and as active participants we should not be so single minded in our views as to prescribe to a stereotypical view.

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Appreciate our community better? Prescribing to a stereotypical view? All I am doing, Beez, is stating a fact and that fact is, is that "most" people will conserve more bud by vaping than by smoking.

Beezleb said:

.........my stance it is wrong to claim as a matter of fact people will save by the use of a vaporizer. That is all.

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I agree. It is wrong to claim as a matter of fact that people will save by using a vaporizer. What is not wrong, however, is to state that most will, and that if one chooses to go from smoking to vaping, that the odds are in their favor, by a pretty wide fucking margin, that they will cut their consumption down by quite a bit.

Beezleb, I completely get that if you're a very heavy user (by my standards - might be a mid-user by someone else's) a log vape might just be too time consuming and too much work. It does slow you down and while this is good for those who would like to conserve, for those that need a certain dosage at certain intervals throughout the day and are not necessarily out to enjoy the process, another vape may be the best choice.

What do you find to be the best vape for medical users? I think it's an interesting distinction between medical and non-medical users, though with a great deal of overlap between the two populations (people who were non-medical users but then became medical users when they became ill).

By the way, what percentage of the medical-use community that you're seeing continues to smoke as their primary means of delivery after being introduced to vaping?

The people I see are typically terminally or seriously ill. Some people just dont like the vape. I have had a few.

Medical users are not much different than recreational ones except in some medical users the timing of use is somewhat dictated by the medical issue. I would say most people I have helped and spoken with tend to favor both bags and desktop vapes like the DBV, Vapor Bros and the like. Basically any vape that can give good vapor and quickly.

The vaporizer is only one part of the issue for medical users with serious issues as the strain of the herb is where the magic is and in my opinion is more important than the model of vape. I have seen one issue with a log vape which the person was unable to effectively use it due to the difficulty of inhaling for some compared to other vaporizer models. It really depends on the persons issue and finances. I would say most people I have helped go with desktop vapes but some have gone with the bags but I think it comes down to money for most.

Many of the people I am talking about do not really go out and do things, health issues and all so vaping on the go has not been much of a question.

I dont really know how many people continue to smoke over vape. I do not sell vapes or push them other than showing different vapes and speaking on the medical use of cannabis. I really do not harp that much on the vaping but I do explain it and sometimes I have people who then want to know more. That is when I really talk about vaping more at length.

I come to know many of these people through a support group for ill people and started off by me talking about using herb long ago in group and that led to vaporizing and now I am known as the vaporizer guy. I am nothing more than another sick guy helping others understand how to use cannabis for their ills.

I believe most instances of continued smoking for those who take up vaping is sporatic. People have told me they smoke from time to time as it seems to help their tolerance or if they need a quick hit. I have had some say they vape in the morning and smoke at night. Their is no right or wrong answer as from our perspective it is what works for the person.

Vapes are nothing but an appliance or tool. It is out right wrong to view what someone says their use is and believe that as a holy grail. Their are too many differing aspects from vapist to vapist to get cocky with stating stereotypes as facts. Ridiculous to do that in my opinion. I have no issue with people saying you can save but their is no free lunch as they say. A vaporizer is not a magic wand.

Just because some person on a site gets a few handfuls of people to say they use less in vaping does not make it a matter of fact that vaporizing will safe anything. It only shows it is capable of doing it. It is no different than say a champion horse. If I was to ride a champion horse I would likely fall off but used with experienced riders and races can be won. A vaporizer is the same.

I will say I do see a general reduction in some peoples use as they get to know their vapes but I cant say no figures as I genuinely base that view on just a few conversations but it makes sense that people will get more efficient as they dial in the vaporizer to themselves. This process can take some time and can be seen here in the forum in instances where people come asking questions about operating their vapes.

True efficiency in vaporizing does not start with the vaporizer model as much as other aspects. Such as what you can get back in ABV, the value of this differs from user to user. Wandhash or the like can also be seen as a benefit.

Vaporizers give us the ability to seriously increase efficiency with our herb but their is far more to it than just using a vape to achieve that. To act as if that does not exist is to be misleading in my opinion. Not saying its intentional but none the less its potentially misleading.

Commendable, Beez.

/salute

IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE:
I use a MrtleZap.
As a recreational user and self-medicator (I use it to help me sleep/fall asleep as well as for relaxation)
I know, for myself, vaporizing is FAR superior in efficiency VS pipe/water pipe combustion methods.
When the same amount of herb lasts me months instead of weeks (yes, I'm a 1-2 bowl an evening person-sometimes more, sometimes less)
...and I'm still receiving the high or effects I'm seeking (which are, to me, even greater in intensity over smoke).


I have yet to use any other vapes besides my own MZ..but I understand most whip and bag systems do require more herb per session, in general.

I'm confident I made the right choice for MY PERSON.
Which is what its all about in the end.


On a side note, a whip vape would be much nicer for multiple use situations..as I've learned.
But I often prefer to toke alone anyway..


Different strokes, for different folks. Especially when its in regards to humans.

Hey Beez, I got to ask you a question. A bit of a thread derail, but I don't think this question is worth it's own thread, but I do think others may find this interesting, otherwise I would PM.

(whew.....I have no idea why I just went through that explanation. :/ Vaped........)

Anyways, I remember you mentioning that you primarily vape mids so I was wondering if that holds true for the people you work with, and if so, is it a cost issue or an availability issue?

Either way, it's fucked because the people that need it the most ie, terminally ill patients and those that are really, really sick, should be able to not only get the best that there is, but also to be able to afford it. Out here in Cali, there are many dispensaries that not only offer up the best there is, but will also give it to people for free if they really, really are in need and who cannot really, really afford to pay for it. The one I go to is such a dispensary, and it's a fucking crying shame that those that are terminally ill that you work with, can't get these quality meds. Keepin' my fingers crossed that Prop 19 passes out here and keepin' my fingers crossed that it will be a catalyst for other states to follow.

Of course, you can then come back and say that it's neither, but rather just like the dosing of mids versus the high-end stuff, in which case...............(nevermind).

Mids is a different meaning thing for some. For me I mean it as a middle quality herb or what many would call a day smoke. This is largely selected for many reasons but typically price and availability is the driving force.

It really depends on the person and their issues as to what strain of herb to select. It is not as simple as saying I want a sativa or Indiga, in reality they are mostly hybrids today anyways and it should also be understood about phenotypes. You can have several different highs from the same strain of plant. Understanding the cuts that are available to patients is important to be able to give an opinion.

This is not so important for recreational users who do not care so much about the differences in phenotypes of a strain but the differences can be important depending on the medical users issue, as well as recreational users too as things affected are typically flavor, strength and effect. I would say largely the medical populace is in the same boat as most recreational users but those who I speak for are the ones who would benefit the most by better laws as it should become easier for known cuts (essentially clones of a favored phenotype) to get around.

I do not get involved in helping people get herb but these are typically not people who go to bars and the like and I really do not know where exactly where people get their herb. It is understood I do not do that from the beginning. It is important to me that I do not come across as benefiting or selling anything or I will lose credibility. It was also part of an agreement for me to bring the vaporizers to group sessions when I speak on it which is understandable.

From my perspective. When our part of the world matures to the point we are as genuinely progressive enough as some out west then I will be able to do more to help direct people to better specific strains and cuts but as of now I simply do not have current knowledge of many of the hybrids out now. It is difficult to obtain specific strains on a regular basis as in our neck of the woods herb is grown for profit and is a constant changing thing but quality has gone up and things are getting much better.

On a bizarre note. I probably typically spend more time speaking with newly disabled people on how to adjust your home to your disability such altering the kitchen, like making things so you can reach them if you cant stand or have muscle issues and the like. Vaping is a small part of what I talk to people about and it really depends on the situation.

Beezleb said:

..... quality has gone up and things are getting much better.

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That's good to hear. Hopefully, the passing of Prop 19 will speed things along.

All I know is I used to combust an oz a month........since vaping that went down to an oz every 2 months and now with the MFLB and WDZ combo I go thru a 1/4 oz a month.....pretty significant difference. I am medicating as much if not more than when I combusted because of the cleaner, no crash high. Never going back.

lwien said:

Beezleb said:

..... quality has gone up and things are getting much better.

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That's good to hear. Hopefully, the passing of Prop 19 will speed things along.

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As much as I want it to pass as a CA resident, I don't think it willl.

The retirement homes will empty out into the voting booths while the colleges will stay full and undisturbed, and it'll be shot down by a comfortable margin. At the same time, there are measure Z clubs operating in Oakland as we speak.

OC513 said:

All I know is I used to combust an oz a month........since vaping that went down to an oz every 2 months and now with the MFLB and WDZ combo I go thru a 1/4 oz a month.....pretty significant difference. I am medicating as much if not more than when I combusted because of the cleaner, no crash high. Never going back.

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A 75% reduction. Significant for sure. If we had a National Vapor Council, they'd want you to do a commercial.

I actually use a lot more weed since purchasing a vape, but that's only because I used to mix it with tobacco. It's common practice in some parts of Australia unfortunately.

The benefits of being able to stop using tobacco and combustion are definitely outweighing whatever conservation I was managing beforehand though.

I imagine that had I had been smoking the weed straight previously I'd be saving huge amounts like most of you.

for me, 3-4 bowls in my DBV equals 1 joint, i used to smoke 2 joints every evening and get a good high, now i can achieve a satisfactory high with only 2 bowls. Rarerly go trough more then 4 bowls by myself.
So for me its definatly more efficient, its healthier and you can collect WH and use your ABV. And a DBV certainly isn't the most efficient of vaporizers.
During a party i would easily smoke 5 joints.
I once attempted to go trough 15 bowls in a row in my DBV, couldn't even finish it. But still, im going to succeed one day

charliedontsurf said:

lwien said:

Beezleb said:

..... quality has gone up and things are getting much better.

Click to expand...

That's good to hear. Hopefully, the passing of Prop 19 will speed things along.

Click to expand...

As much as I want it to pass as a CA resident, I don't think it willl.

The retirement homes will empty out into the voting booths while the colleges will stay full and undisturbed, and it'll be shot down by a comfortable margin. At the same time, there are measure Z clubs operating in Oakland as we speak.

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Sadly the people you state will come out to vote against it are the ones who need it the most.

max said:

OC513 said:

All I know is I used to combust an oz a month........since vaping that went down to an oz every 2 months and now with the MFLB and WDZ combo I go thru a 1/4 oz a month.....pretty significant difference. I am medicating as much if not more than when I combusted because of the cleaner, no crash high. Never going back.

Click to expand...

A 75% reduction. Significant for sure. If we had a National Vapor Council, they'd want you to do a commercial.

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It absolutely amazes me. After combusting for over 20 years and being set in my ways.....then move to a vape and feel an even better head, just as often or more often and use 1/4 of the product is like a dream come true. I live in NYC where quality meds are very expensive.....the savings per month is enough to pay for 1 or 2 new vapes each month. Between that and the vape getting me off of cigs and onto an e-cig has saved not only my health in ways I never imagined but also puts hundreds of dollars in my pocket each month. Win-win. I proudly say to everyone I will never smoke again.......and this time I mean it.

OC513 it may just be rumors, but I remember hearing from somewhere that those E-cigs are actually worse for you :/

I don't know though so do your own research.


Anyway to stay on topic my usage has CRASHED. I can vape all day with my MFLB and not waste even 20% of the bud I'd use if I was combusting.

You use less, your tolerance drops, and there is no debate about it. When you combust plant matter you're burning it, thus destroying actives. When you're vaping you're heating the actives to a certain temp to vape at, thus getting most of what you're trying to vape.