Desired Outcomes

justcametomind said:

Are your vapes so hot to melt a pocket? Mine are only warm and I'm fine to keep them in my hands especially during winter.

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Not necessarily melt a pocket lol. More concerned about my skin. Each of my vapes make me pause before slipping them into my pocket. As I mentioned, I have it factored in how quickly I can stash it safely. I not sticking my VG in my pocket right away, no friggin way. Nor, my Crafty, but the crafty is more insulated so it can disappear more quickly. Two very different vapes and two very different heat signatures but both require the cool-down factor. These vapes up against my skin with a thin fabric in between... that's what I'm talking about.
510 dry-herb attachments concern me similarly but moreso due to the open oven in my pocket. Then there's the hot glass stem. Vapcaps, vapman, require exterior cases. GH requires, shit, IDK, asbestos-kevlar mouthpiece cover? Haha... So, at any rate, we are talking about desired outcomes correct?

I think a user replaceable battery, even a single 18650, adds unnecessary complexity. RBT already makes devices for seasoned vapors. No one new to vaping is going to start with a Splinter or a Milaana because those are more advanced devices. A built in battery, provided it has enough of a quick charge to get you vaping again, would be preferable and should reduce cost and engineering needs. Just my two cents on the matter.

If the goal here is to sell to people who are already part of this community, and give them the most flexibility, then a replaceable battery makes sense. If however this device is intended to be something anyone could pick up and get good results with first try, I would stick to built in battery.

Monk Debate said:

I think a user replaceable battery, even a single 18650, adds unnecessary complexity. RBT already makes devices for seasoned vapors. No one new to vaping is going to start with a Splinter or a Milaana because those are more advanced devices. A built in battery, provided it has enough of a quick charge to get you vaping again, would be preferable and should reduce cost and engineering needs. Just my two cents on the matter.

If the goal here is to sell to people who are already part of this community, and give them the most flexibility, then a replaceable battery makes sense. If however this device is intended to be something anyone could pick up and get good results with first try, I would stick to built in battery.

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I Disagree STRONGLY.

If the battery does not live up to expectations you can wind up with a bad reputation and a bunch of refunds/returns.

An example that comes to mind and through personal experience was the Boundless CFV. The vapor was great. The battery gave about 4-4 minute sessions vs the 40 minutes of vape time advertised, IIRC.

Besides the risk to reputation, if the battery dies the vaporizer dies. Totally unnecessary in today's environment.

So many people have 18650 batteries from other vapes and uses that paying for a dedicated battery is wasteful.

sickmanfraud said:

I Disagree STRONGLY.

If the battery does not live up to expectations you can wind up with a bad reputation and a bunch of refunds/returns.

An example that comes to mind and through personal experience was the Boundless CFV. The vapor was great. The battery gave about 4-4 minute sessions vs the 40 minutes of vape time advertised, IIRC.

Besides the risk to reputation, if the battery dies the vaporizer dies. Totally unnecessary in today's environment.

So many people have 18650 batteries from other vapes and uses that paying for a dedicated battery is wasteful.

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Again, this presumes that the user is already vaping and has multiple vapes that use replaceable 18650 batteries. That makes sense if the device is designed for experienced established vapers. If if the device is designed for first time users as well as experienced vapers, I would recommend an internal battery.

I can’t speak to the Boundless, but surely not every device with internal batteries have such issues.

Monk Debate said:

Again, this presumes that the user is already vaping and has multiple vapes that use replaceable 18650 batteries. That makes sense if the device is designed for experienced established vapers. If if the device is designed for first time users as well as experienced vapers, I would recommend an internal battery.

I can’t speak to the Boundless, but surely not every device with internal batteries have such issues.

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Not a fact based statement. Batteries have limited number of charge cycles, some more and some less. Regardless, if built in, the batteries performance will degrade over time, especially given the charge controllers built into most vapes are not very sophisticated. I have owned (past tense) vapes with built in batteries, but never again. I’d also add that my wife loves her 18650 flashlight and I have a battery caddy which allows me to charge phones and other devices from my 18650 batteries.

I’d say it is more about target market and price. The Fury (internal battery) maybe purchased right now for $109 which is a great price point for a lay person. RBT seems to be targeting a higher price point, which in my mind requires a replaceable battery. @Monk Debate how much are you willing to spend on a vape whose battery is not replaceable? My tolerance used to be higher, but now I will not even buy a vape with a proprietary replaceable battery which excludes great vapes like the Ghost MV-1. The future is replaceable battery with circuitry capable of leveraging low to high quality 18650 batteries. I could careless about internal charging, it’s a waste and I’ll never use it.

If the battery can reliably meet the 3-5 years RBT is quoting, it’s a non issue for me. The 510 attachments RBT currently makes and are planning on releasing are there for people who want more advanced vaping, including things like having banks of backup batteries. It seems like this is meant to be a more inclusive, simple, all in one device.

I literally wouldn't buy a battery powered vape if the battery wasn't user replaceable. I won't even buy a vape that has a proprietary battery actually. I did, and regretted it.

My bad, I meant having a battery slot for swapping off the shelf batteries. I would want the battery to be user replaceable in the same way a laptop battery is user replaceable, by unscrewing a portion of the device. My apologies if I was unclear.

Monk Debate said:

My bad, I meant having a battery slot for swapping off the shelf batteries. I would want the battery to be user replaceable in the same way a laptop battery is user replaceable, by unscrewing a portion of the device. My apologies if I was unclear.

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That clears up spot for me, at least. I do enjoy being able to easily access my batteries with my current portables that use 18650s, but since I picked up a dna box I almost never throw my batteries on the external charger. And while I actually do think a splinter would still be a fine vape for a beginner (From what I’ve seen most people get pretty favorable results in wattage mode, and likewise most people using dna boxes and @herbievonvapster’s profiles report great results) provided that they have done a little reading on the topic or watched a video on getting set up.

However, I understand what you’re saying. Having so many separate elements like the 510 device, the mod box (honestly probably the most intimidating component), batteries that many folks are unfamiliar with, external chargers, those can all feel like a lot to have thrown at you.

I really love my Z and V1. I’ve only gotten to use them with my Wismec Reuleaux dna250, my RX300 was a lemon and has permanently killed off two batteries. And while I love the aesthetics of my Zion and Milaana vaporizers, I know 100% that once my girlfriend visits and uses the Z or V1 that it will become the only vape that she reaches for. She doesn’t want to have to fiddle with swapping batteries or using an external chargers, being able to charge a vape with a Micro-usb will seal the deal for her.

That all being said, I too would be just fine with a user replaceable battery that could be accessed without too much fuss (although I don’t have trouble with use of my hands I would like to see a device that even someone with dexterity issues can disassemble without too much discomfort or frustration.

@RastaBuddhaTao i am digging the single 18650. Can you give a little more insight on your thoughts for the mouthpiece?

Though I love all my RBT devices I find the stems frustrating in some regards. While top hat screens work fine to hold herb on their own, I like to have a screen pushed deeper in the stem so that I can adjust the oven depth. However, it’s hard to get a good fit inside the stem that stays secure. Even pressing my own screens isn’t super reliable, I think it’s more to do with the taper of the stem, are there similarly designed stems that don’t have that taper in the gong (I’m envisioning a gong joint built around a straight tube). I have just found screens in straight tubes like with my underdog or like other log vapes utilize are less finicky and fussy.

Keep it up!

VP

Monk Debate said:

If the battery can reliably meet the 3-5 years RBT is quoting, it’s a non issue for me

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I loves me some RBT and especially his tech, but I have my doubts that a battery exists that can be discharged and recharged every day and still last "3 - 5 years". Probably some time in the future, but not yet. My original pairs of HE4s that I used in my first Zion were taken out of service more than a year ago because they were no longer lasting long enough, and they were NOT fully cycled every day as they were not the only pair or device I used.
As long as the battery is replaceable, even with some reasonable effort (screws, not solder), it would be acceptable to me. For some others not even that.

Dam, Have I got some catchin up to do!

Has the seed sprouted, can we see.

e

in short it should be like smoking a j.

what I do not like about vaporizing...

you have to suck for a long time until you see vapor (it is also looking akward)...

hot and harsh vapor

whispy vapor

not efficient with your herb meds

taste of vapor is bad after one or two hits...

How about upping the anti to 21770 or 26650 batteries?

for me to be honest bif the battery is swapable or not is not the problem why vaporizers are often neglected...

I had a lot of vapes and to be honest there was no vape which 100% fitted my needs... and if you read this forum and you know about VAS that is why people have VAS...

as stated before if someone will invent a vape which acts like a joint this will solve a lot of VAS and will motivate a lot of old school smoker to convert to vapes...

main problems are:

1.) you have to draw for a long time to get vapor (this is boring, looks akward, does not feel natural and it is also not very stealth.... so here it would be the goal to make a vape which behaves like a joint take a 2 to 6 sec. draw and blow out big clouds) (that is also a reason why people like catridges like ccell they much better mimic smoking a joint... ) and also getting vapor should not be a challenge and technique thing (like smoking a j.)

2.) mostly every portable vape produce hot, harsh vapor so it is often small (grasshopper for example) but you need a bubbler or so to be able to enjoy the vapor... so at the end it is not really portable...

3.) also a problem is that the taste of your herb does not last long (normally after the first draw it seems a lot of terps get stripped of... catridges for exmple every hit tastes more or less the same and good)... that was also a reason why I liked microdosing and effective vape (take one hit then load new)...

4.) if it is a portable vape it should be small discreet... fit in your pocket... and it would be great if you do not have to wait until it cools off to put it in your pocket...

5.) on demand ... take a draw put it back and lets say hit it half an hour later... do not like session vapes because they are not really efficient and cook your herb...

6.) using totally safe products for the vape... especially regarding air path vape path....

7.) cleaning: it would be nice if you could easily disassemble the vape and can put the "herbchamber" separeted from the vape in iso(bath)...

8.) easy loading of herbchamber (that is important when portable... maybe a pod sytem or so... where you can pre load capsules or so with your herb... )

9.) maybe something modular where you also could change the heating element like in the normad... so in the future you do not have to buy a whole new vape but are able to change old heating element against new... that would be also maybe ecofriendly...

@RastaBuddhaTao I like your dedication and enthusiasm....

@RastaBuddhaTao Ryan, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. I think it's a really good excercise to start vape design from the ground up, in terms of experience to be had and not technical details. Now that an idea is shaping up, what do you think is missing from the current vape lineup that plays in the space you described? What's the glaring flaw with fury 2 or argo? What's the niche you want to fill?

I own wood mouth pieces as well as one of @Alan ’s wood and glass cooling mouth pieces, and I do prefer glass. That said I also feel it is important to elongate the airpath as much as possible, yet it needs to be easy to clean. The airpath also needs to be isolated from the battery and the electronics. Why is it the bowl is seldom at the bottom of a portable vape? It seems placing it there is a big head start to elongating the vaper path, but it’s only beneficial if the airparth is easily cleaned and the bowl is readily accessible and also easy to clean.

On a vertical access you need to accommodate battery height, combined with it’s cradle and connections, the airpath may also utilize a good piece of this height. Can the electronics that drives it go above or below the battery, keeping battery and electronics separate from the bowl and airpath. I’d rather have my vape too tall than round and fat where it does not comfortably fit in a pocket. Can the bowl be removable for cleaning or would pods be easier? If the bowl is bottom third of the height, can the airpath to the top of the vape be XL8R (cooling) in nature and removable for easy cleaning? Perhaps ending in another glass joint that you could insert a stubby stem in or a longer cooling stem?

YaMon said:

I own wood mouth pieces as well as one of @Alan ’s wood and glass cooling mouth pieces, and I do prefer glass. That said I also feel it is important to elongate the airpath as much as possible, yet it needs to be easy to clean. The airpath also needs to be isolated from the battery and the electronics. Why is it the bowl is seldom at the bottom of a portable vape? It seems placing it there is a big head start to elongating the vaper path, but it’s only beneficial if the airparth is easily cleaned and the bowl is readily accessible and also easy to clean.

On a vertical access you need to accommodate battery height, combined with it’s cradle and connections, the airpath may also utilize a good piece of this height. Can the electronics that drives it go above or below the battery, keeping battery and electronics separate from the bowl and airpath. I’d rather have my vape too tall than round and fat where it does not comfortably fit in a pocket. Can the bowl be removable for cleaning or would pods be easier? If the bowl is bottom third of the height, can the airpath to the top of the vape be XL8R (cooling) in nature and removable for easy cleaning? Perhaps ending in another glass joint that you could insert a stubby stem in or a longer cooling stem?

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You make some interesting points but the thread where you originally posted this is for the RBT wooden mouthpiece, so I moved it to this more suitable thread.