Discontinued The Grasshopper

Baron23 said:

Well, I'm not a big data guy, but used to work for ARINC who at one time led in the RMA (reliability, maintainability, availability) field.

If, after having received what must be thousands of GHs via repair authorizations, they do not know their main failure modes and causes, then they are indeed a lost cause. They should have all of the data and exhibits (failed parts) to determine failure modes and percentages and fix them under a continual improvement program. Its not theoretical physics, companies have been doing just this thing for decades.

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Hey man, I completely agree with you and on your side. Quality does need to improve as do other aspects. Does anyone have real data about HL? You may be right about the RMA number and I wonder how many units they've sold by now.

Sour D kickin in. Gotta go

Mr. Me2 said:

Hey @slcbdco - do you have any info for us? Are any of the founders out?

Inquiring minds...

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I was there earlier this week in the new space in North Boulder and Matt and Trevor are still there

abracadaver said:

You will be lucky to hear from him, he just received a halogen powered artisanal vape.

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Ha! I did get an Apollo, it’s cool but I also got deep into Dynavap world. I've been using the grasshopper and dynavap the most, they’re sorta like digital/analog versions of each other.

Decided to celebrate with a double hopper rip. Report on the 3 I purchased: 1 gives sensor damage lights and the other 2 work with some fiddling. When they work they work really good though as you can see from this video.

slcbdco said:

I was there earlier this week in the new space in North Boulder and Matt and Trevor are still there



Ha! I did get an Apollo, it’s cool but I also got deep into Dynavap world. I've been using the grasshopper and dynavap the most, they’re sorta like digital/analog versions of each other.

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Thanks for the info! I have to admit that with all their challenges, I’m happy Matt and Trevor are still there. Others may disagree with me on that one, though...

Btw - are you a torch guy, or did you join the IH club too? And I hope you got a @phattpiggie piece as part of your Dynavap collection!

Mr. Me2 said:

I’m happy Matt and Trevor are still there. Others may disagree with me on that one, though...

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Well, since they are the ones that have brought us this miserable company performance for a very long time, I don't care if they are there...as long as they ain't Captain of the ship anymore.

This company needs some fresh focus, energy, and just some good standard practices.

By the by, the reason that companies do continue reliability/maintainability/testibility/availability improvements is that, if done right, it is CHEAPER than the alternatives of endless RMAs and resulting customer dissatisfaction.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how they have managed to ignore the 800 lb gorilla of reliability/testability issues for this long without correcting them. Of course, they really only blow happy smoke at us via the occasional IG or blog post....never any real details that would assure the buying community that they have their issues under control.

Because HL choose to not disclose very much about their inner workings, we're left to speculate about it all, and to be skeptical when we do hear some morsel of news, when some ray of hope is projected on the horizon.
The most obvious scenario is that someone or some company has injected cash and taken over 'management'. There's so much cash coming in to the canna industry that even a project like this one might get a boost from the feeding frenzy.

It also easy to speculate that the founders might have agreed to stay on for a while, maybe in supervisory capacity or maybe they'll be conscripted and shackled to the warranty repair bench until all caught up. Maybe they're making a lot of money from this deal?
Or not.

Meanwhile, I am anxiously awaiting updates THIS WEEK on the 2 pieces in warranty (8 months/4 months)!

Got my repaired grasshopper back. Seems to be working perfectly so far. Heater/chamber assembly also doesn't look like it was run over by a truck this time so that's pretty sweet.

Do not believe the Grasshopper hate coming from Snoopy.

Macicman said:

Do not believe the Grasshopper hate coming from Snoopy.

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Any hate towards HL is probably justified at least to some degree. Some people just love the product so much they can look past the company.

Although it seems to be getting slightly better they've had the worst customer service I've ever seen from a company for multiple years now. They've pissed a LOT of customers off to the point that I'm sure they will never even dream of doing business with HL again.

Cheesequake said:

Any hate towards HL is probably justified at least to some degree. Some people just love the product so much they can look past the company.

Although it seems to be getting slightly better they've had the worst customer service I've ever seen from a company for multiple years now. They've pissed a LOT of customers off to the point that I'm sure they will never even dream of doing business with HL again.

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I wonder if they'd bothered to consider where their money was going upon initially spending it, if they'd be less annoyed with themselves or the company/brand?

Others would just expect a small start up type experience and see the rationale, limitations and innovations at play. (also the history, it's been years in the making and has been a pretty same old story)
Getting blitzed daily and keeping up with the news has been vastly entertaining for me, the let downs haven't been such a big deal for me personally either.

After all, the worst customer service is one that doesn't exist. It's very fair to complain about some conduct from HL, but more apt to experience what they offer, and just describe your own experiences. Mine have been nothing short of beyond reasonable. But I've read many first hand accounts of real shockers - and that is no good, but a bit of patience goes a long way when dealing with small, overwhelmed companies and their practices. It's easy to get riled up in something that becomes a large part of your life. But it's just a cannabis device, so keeping it in perspective would change the average discussion surrounding this thing.

The fact is, it is taking a loooong time for RMA turn-around right now, but that's not usual. The better thing to focus on is the fact that they're willing to service the whole lot. Others would have, and have, keeled over and died.

I think the small team has handled this okay to some degree - it was far from the ideal play out and situation. But even if it isn't perfect, it's still one of the best vapes available.

I've zero reason to think too lowly of them, but I see how that conclusion isn't unreasonable. Give it a couple of years and it will have settled out one way or the other. I am keen to still be hopping then and would consider it likely.

slcbdco said:

I also got deep into Dynavap world. I've been using the grasshopper and dynavap the most, they’re sorta like digital/analog versions of each other.

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Agree at all , the only cons is that Dynavap is much less stealthy and that is bad, expecially if you live in a glacial era country. May is gently coming and it will be 1 year that my GH is in RMA purgatory . It was a nice device , hope to get it back ( and working I presume ) for Holydays in august , but naturally I will take also my two dynavap with . Just in case I'll have to open my 5 RMA ...

Baron23 said:

Well, since they are the ones that have brought us this miserable company performance for a very long time, I don't care if they are there...as long as they ain't Captain of the ship anymore.

This company needs some fresh focus, energy, and just some good standard practices.

By the by, the reason that companies do continue reliability/maintainability/testibility/availability improvements is that, if done right, it is CHEAPER than the alternatives of endless RMAs and resulting customer dissatisfaction.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how they have managed to ignore the 800 lb gorilla of reliability/testability issues for this long without correcting them. Of course, they really only blow happy smoke at us via the occasional IG or blog post....never any real details that would assure the buying community that they have their issues under control.

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@Baron23 i wanted to get a new portable to be cool!
I don’t know what to get?
The GRASSHOPPER?

ataxian said:

@Baron23 i wanted to get a new portable to be cool!
I don’t know what to get?
The GRASSHOPPER?

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If reliability isn't an issue for you the Grasshopper is tough to beat. If it is look elsewhere.

Macicman said:

Do not believe the Grasshopper hate coming from Snoopy.

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Lol, read much of this 900+ page thread?

I'd guess at least 80% of posts are of failure and disappointment.
Obviously it is also proof of just how good a working hopper is, for people to still be wishing and crossing their fingers...
But yeah, one dogs post is a drop in the ocean at this point, the evidence is out there already.

ataxian said:

@Baron23 i wanted to get a new portable to be cool!
I don’t know what to get?
The GRASSHOPPER?

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I'm sorry, my friend...but I just can't recommend the GH. If you get a good one, its wonderful. But so many people have had so many problems and the company CS performance has been so bad.

Now, they say they are under new management. That's nice....but they need to show me that they have addressed their issues before I believe a word of it.

Do you have a Mighty? Best portable I own, IMO.

Do you own a VapCap? I love this set up:



I can't say that there are a lot of portables that I'm terribly excited about at the moment.

Baron23 said:

I'm sorry, my friend...but I just can't recommend the GH. If you get a good one, its wonderful. But so many people have had so many problems and the company CS performance has been so bad.

Now, they say they are under new management. That's nice....but they need to show me that they have addressed their issues before I believe a word of it.

Do you have a Mighty? Best portable I own, IMO.

Do you own a VapCap? I love this set up:

I can't say that there are a lot of portables that I'm terribly excited about at the moment.

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My”M” is very responsive!
The battery powered are actually decent for flavor that I use!
I want a new portable just to collect stuff?
Time to keep looking?
Does the MIGHTY & the CRAFTY have the same taste?
Tried a CRAFTY once?

ataxian said:

Does the MIGHTY & the CRAFTY have the same taste?

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Yeah, pretty much the same device in terms of function and performance with the Mighty being my fav due to larger battery capacity and not needing an app.

eh, Mighty is not the greatest taste but what a consistent, easy, extractor.

Glad you are liking your M.

The lifetime warranty gimmick HL used to jump-start the business seems to have a kind of reverse ponzi effect that ruins the enterprise over time. A LTW might work for a can opener simple device like Dynvap. Any complex electronic device involving extreme temperatures will have a limited life, an average number of cycles until failure unless you don't use it at all. Every Hopper sold adds to the total liability implied by the lifetime warranty. Any way you look at it the business model does not work. One way to lower the liability would be to disgruntle your customers until they quit participating.

Apogee said:

The lifetime warranty gimmick

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Not really a gimmick...They've been around for more than 3 years and have obliged my warranty request every single time with ~10 different units and I don't see them going anywhere any time soon.

I don't really understand everyone's point saying lifetime warranty is what's ruining them...even if they had only a 3 or 2 or even 1 year warranty they would still be bogged down with warranty requests constantly. It's like you guys think people would buy something they know is extremely likely to break without the promise of a lifetime warranty. That just isn't how things work. I say the only reason they're even still in business at all is because they offer the lifetime warranty. I know I would've forgotten about Hopper Labs years ago if not for the warranty.

The only thing bogging down Hopper Labs is the fact that they can't make a product that works consistently and nothing else.

I've owned and serviced hoppers beyond the Storz & Bickel warranty period, which was something I took into account when purchasing.
The GH cost less and my original pre-order has been great. I expected to still be using it today, and I am. It hasn't been smooth sailing, but it has been overall a great journey. Somewhat lucky with how it's played out with my total operating time being almost a few years in total between 3 devices(!), but I can't say I have any regrets choosing GH over Mighty back in '15, knowing that even if I had bought two S&B units to tie me over I still would have a huge vacant space in my line up for an instantly ready heavy ripper, and I would have spent more missing out

John (Hopper Labs) Mar. 18, 2019
Hi Mike,

We are doing our best to get this to you as soon as possible. There is a large backlog as we were forced to stop producing critical heating components with our past manufacturer due to production problems leading to failure in the field. Bringing these processes in-house took over 7 months and created a service backlog that we are now working through. This has made the wait much longer than the normal two weeks and we are working as fast as possible to perform these upgrades on backlogged devices. The service and upgrades are free but do take time as we have only in the last two months started to return devices. Our past estimations were too optimistic and we will now be issuing drastically conservative time estimates. For April devices we currently estimate 2-3 months. Again sorry for the long wait.


I am so freaking done with this sham of a company

@MikeG7265 On the plus side, at least they are communicating, and with a more realistic timeframe. Sure, 2-3 months sucks, but as long as they stay true to their word and have it back to you within that time, then that's what really matters. Customer service is all about setting realistic expectations, and while 2-3 months is a long time, at least they are being vocal with their timeframes instead of giving a cookie cutter answer of 2 weeks which they have no intention of sticking to. Crossing fingers that they back up their promises this time around!

@khelek41girl I’m sorry but this is the third time they’ve told me 2-3 months. and it took me mailing 4 times just to get this response. They’ve had it for almost a year. I’ve been dealing with this crap since the beginning, so forgive me if I have a bad taste in my mouth about them. They can send new orders in 4 weeks but I have to wait over a year. Please show me where the customer service is. I spent 30 plus years in customer service, this is unacceptable.

I have three Hoppers, my other two are in a drawer waiting to be sent back to be fixed. Three of their products and none have worked for more than a month before needing warranty work. So close to $1000 spent with nothing I can use. Not to mention that my dumbass also paid for the battery charger, some batteries, and the storage case that we have no idea when or if they’ll ever happen. Luckily I can get a refund for those, if they ever respond.

MikeG7265 said:

John (Hopper Labs) Mar. 18, 2019
Hi Mike,

We are doing our best to get this to you as soon as possible. There is a large backlog as we were forced to stop producing critical heating components with our past manufacturer due to production problems leading to failure in the field. Bringing these processes in-house took over 7 months and created a service backlog that we are now working through. This has made the wait much longer than the normal two weeks and we are working as fast as possible to perform these upgrades on backlogged devices. The service and upgrades are free but do take time as we have only in the last two months started to return devices. Our past estimations were too optimistic and we will now be issuing drastically conservative time estimates. For April devices we currently estimate 2-3 months. Again sorry for the long wait.


I am so freaking done with this sham of a company

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I've got the same bullshit some months ago, the same copy/paste , first it's 3 months .... after 3 months they need another 3 months ... there is "hope" in "hopper" name ....

@MikeG7265 trust me, I totally get it. I misunderstood what your post meant. I thought you had just sent it in for servicing. I'm certainly not one to defend the actions of HL. They treated me like shit last year when I ordered one, and I had to threaten them just to get a response. Once I received it, I abandoned ship and now have quite a few quality vapes that have never broken down on me. The state of HL is a joke. Anyone browsing through any of the 900+ pages on here can see that it's been that way since the beginning. What they need is to expand their warranty program to include authorized repair people who can take some of the load off so that they can focus on making their product better. They don't seem to want any help from others though, so...