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Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Do you think that maybe a black, permanent marker used on the perimeter / rim of the holes might make them less visually obtrusive?

.

Unfortunately, while a black Sharpie is close in color, I know from the experience of trying to repair scratches that it is not an exact match. I think if someone were to try coloring the shiny edges with a marker they would likely be disappointed with the results.

These enclosures have an outer layer of color around a core of "natural" aluminum. They need holes to function as heaters, and holes expose the inner core. If one were to go with a natural (unfinished) one, the beveled edges wouldn't stand out as sharply. Otherwise, I don't know of a good way to make those exposed, beveled edges blend in, short of some sort or powder-coating or anodization process, and those are beyond my abilities and budget. Paint isn't an option.

I'm sorry you don't care for the looks as they are, @Fat Freddy . Tastes vary, and these definitely have a look. I like them, but I concede that some folks may find them cold and sterile, or garish and ugly, or simply not what they want. :worms:
 
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°k

The sound of vapor
Talking about these openings, do you think you could make them as thin horizontal lines maybe (cutting the angle if that makes sense)? They'd look much better and could possibly diffuse more heat? On top of that there'd be less chances for small thingies to fall inside while in a bag or pocket.

Edit: thinking about it you could even get an entire side cut that way? Even more heat to get out?
 

YaMon

Vaping since 2010
Talking about these openings, do you think you could make them as thin horizontal lines maybe (cutting the angle if that makes sense)? They'd look much better and could possibly diffuse more heat? On top of that there'd be less chances for small thingies to fall inside while in a bag or pocket.

Edit: thinking about it you could even get an entire side cut that way? Even more heat to get out?
Either this or lots of smaller holes perhaps backed by a mesh screen to keep lint and other flammable items out. This would need to be kept clean, but would improve the aesthetics
 
YaMon,
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mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Talking about these openings, do you think you could make them as thin horizontal lines maybe (cutting the angle if that makes sense)? They'd look much better and could possibly diffuse more heat? On top of that there'd be less chances for small thingies to fall inside while in a bag or pocket.

Edit: thinking about it you could even get an entire side cut that way? Even more heat to get out?

Thank you for the suggestions.

Unfortunately, I don't have a mill, and some operations, like cutting precision slots, look best when done on a mill. Could I hack slots into these with something less precise, like an angle grinder or a Dremel tool? Yes, but I'd rather not do that for a long list of reasons, including the time involved and the expense incurred if/when I screw up.

I am not going to write up a long defense of my design choices, but I'll just say, I have given this a lot of thought, and I am very aware of my options and my limitations. I am trying to make the best choices with both of those in mind.

My intent in presenting the issue was to make people aware this device is not a toy - it works quite well, and to keep the user safe, it has some limits. I don't think this will be a problem for most people, and I think the recent changes I have made within the testing cycle - which are still awaiting evaluation by the testers - will mitigate the issue. But yes, the device has an upper heat limit, and it's a limit you can reach if you hit it hard, repeatedly, without venting any of the heat it has generated. If you are aware of that and how it happens, I think you can generally avoid tripping it. The thermal fuse trip doesn't trip instantly, but you can make it trip with a little effort. Equally, with some attention to how you use the device, you can avoid tripping the fuse. You can also side-step the issue by lifting the lid. Not every problem requires an engineering solution.

BTW, I looked into getting a quantity of these professionally machined, and it got pricey quickly. Let's not make perfection the goal here. I can do good work, but I cannot do perfect work.

Thanks. More to come, I'm sure. I am eager to see what else testing has to tell me about this things I'm making.
 

Diggy Smalls

Notorious
Wow those little black beauties look amazing. I'm finishing up at school, but once I'm working again I need one of these. I have this on my radar, though. Man that is sleek as hell.
One thought, I think I'll want to find a silicone plug to cover the vapcap insertion hole from the inevitable pocket lint and dog kibble in my pockets lol

Seriously, that is awesome looking. Would look killer with the new shadow vapcap
 

YaMon

Vaping since 2010
@mr_cfromcali thanks for being so open and giving us insight to small business and the trails an tribulations. I for one wish to remain on the list for a deluxe and hope that sales will drive revenue and ultimatley refinement in esthetics. For now function over form, as it should be. (Not that the form is that bad.)
 

Hogni

Honi soit qui mal y pense
Perhaps you could plug the - really so nice - holes with something like that?

26a3a6645afcac0191b24b22f1bd5a84.jpg
 

YaMon

Vaping since 2010
Perhaps you could plug the - really so nice - holes with something like that?

26a3a6645afcac0191b24b22f1bd5a84.jpg
I would think those could melt that close to a coil. Drilling larger holes and using a computer fan grill may work, but I think the smallest are 40mm, which is too large.
 
YaMon,

Monsoon

Well-Known Member
One thought, I think I'll want to find a silicone plug to cover the vapcap insertion hole from the inevitable pocket lint and dog kibble in my pockets lol
I was thinking something like a camera case would be good for securing it and to keep stuff from getting inside. Can even hold your vapcap stuff if it's big enough. If I find a good one I'll post it here. Otherwise for keeping it in your pocket something like a drawstring fabric bag would work without adding much extra bulk.

I'm lucky enough to be one of the testers and should get it by Monday. I'll be sure to post a review up here once I've had some time with it.
 
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mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Believe it or not, I did look into all manner of small inserts and filters with which I might fill these holes, so as to prevent the invasion of alien lint bodies, dust worms, and ennui. Ok, maybe not ennui. But I did look into this, and my conclusion was basically that venting is necessary, the risks of dust and lint intrusion are minor, and several medium-sized holes are preferable to a pair of large holes or a bunch of poorly aligned small ones. In the end, I concluded that inserts added bulk and expense where neither bulk nor expense were welcome. The holes were better left off being left open. ;)

I also looked into having some enclosures machined to my specs, and the minimum order quantity was 200 units. Even with quantity discounts, purchasing 200 of these cases is expensive, and having them machined to my specs was also expensive in its own right and added another 30% to 50% to the cost of the cases. That's a lot of money to tie up in a housing for a product that could be superseded by an official IH from Dynavap at any time.

I gave it some thought, and I concluded that I would prefer to sell a "handsome" version of this heater for $135 and get it out there so people could use it, rather sell "an even more aesthetically pleasing" version for $200+ that could be well admired but will be poorly adopted, not to mention being overpriced for the value it actually delivers.

This post will probably come off as defensive, but my intent with it is to let people know that I considered multiple factors when designing these devices, including their price, how much financial "exposure" I was comfortable with carrying while I developed them, and what sort of users I expected to buy them when they were ready to be sold. Plus all of the other stuff previously mentioned: my skill set, my shop's capabilities, my wife and family's patience while I took time to work on this project, etc. The ultimate question, of course, is "just how much do I think someone will pay me for this widget I want to make?" and it only gets answered when you start selling them, and people vote with their wallets.

We'll see soon enough, I hope.

By the way, housing these in something even more expensive is still an option if people want to pay for it. If you are down for a $200 or $250 version of this that positively bristles with precision machining goodness, let me know.

---

@Monsoon : a drawstring fabric bag would work without adding much extra bulk.

I have that covered: As you'll see when yours arrives, monsoon, it does come with soft drawstring bag. ;) I haven't mentioned that yet as it's only now becoming relevant, but I'll add that to the list of features when I get a moment.

Thanks for your comments, everyone. I do appreciate hearing them, even if I'm a stubborn SOB who can be reluctant to change his mind... :love:
 
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Diggy Smalls

Notorious
Dude the soft drawstring bag is a much better idea than plugging and unplugging holes then losing the inserts lol The bags are cheap and easy to get. I know I use one to collect my avb from Vapes. Perfect suggestion.
I think it's an awesome price point you have, truthfully. It's going to be maybe a month or two before I can purchase one anyway.

I don't find your post defensive. Please don't think my posts are complaining or critical of your design, cause I love it and really appreciate following the development. I've got this and a few other community made products I plan on getting once I'm working again. Darn school makes this 42 year old very poor lol
 

Fat Freddy

FUCK CANCER TOO !
One of the things that members here do well is to share their aftermarket mods. I'm sure the aesthetics of the vent holes will be no exception to that activity. :rockon:

And as far as the Dynavap IH goes, not everyone is going to be keen on a "travel mug" enclosure. Unless of course, that's a giant "head fake" by George and Company? :brow:

Keep on keeping on, @mr_cfromcali !

.
 

pxl_jockey

Just a dude
Believe it or not, I did look into all manner of small inserts and filters with which I might fill these holes, so as to prevent the invasion of alien lint bodies, dust worms, and ennui. Ok, maybe not ennui. But I did look into this, and my conclusion was basically that venting is necessary, the risks of dust and lint intrusion are minor, and several medium-sized holes are preferable to a pair of large holes or a bunch of poorly aligned small ones. In the end, I concluded that inserts added bulk and expense where neither bulk nor expense were welcome. The holes were better left off being left open. ;)

I also looked into having some enclosures machined to my specs, and the minimum order quantity was 200 units. Even with quantity discounts, purchasing 200 of these cases is expensive, and having them machined to my specs was also expensive in its own right and added another 30% to 50% to the cost of the cases. That's a lot of money to tie up in a housing for a product that could be superseded by an official IH from Dynavap at any time.

I gave it some thought, and I concluded that I would prefer to sell a "handsome" version of this heater for $135 and get it out there so people could use it, rather sell "an even more aesthetically pleasing" version for $200+ that could be well admired but will be poorly adopted, not to mention being overpriced for the value it actually delivers.

This post will probably come off as defensive, but my intent with it is to let people know that I considered multiple factors when designing these devices, including their price, how much financial "exposure" I was comfortable with carrying while I developed them, and what sort of users I expected to buy them when they were ready to be sold. Plus all of the other stuff previously mentioned: my skill set, my shop's capabilities, my wife and family's patience while I took time to work on this project, etc. The ultimate question, of course, is "just how much do I think someone will pay me for this widget I want to make?" and it only gets answered when you start selling them, and people vote with their wallets.

We'll see soon enough, I hope.

By the way, housing these in something even more expensive is still an option if people want to pay for it. If you are down for a $200 or $250 version of this that positively bristles with precision machining goodness, let me know.

---

@Monsoon : a drawstring fabric bag would work without adding much extra bulk.

I have that covered: As you'll see when yours arrives, monsoon, it does come with soft drawstring bag. ;) I haven't mentioned that yet as it's only now becoming relevant, but I'll add that to the list of features when I get a moment.

Thanks for your comments, everyone. I do appreciate hearing them, even if I'm a stubborn SOB who can be reluctant to change his mind... :love:
Love this, didn’t think you sound defensive at all, my man; just that you’ve done the homework and considered the angles. More of that transparency that many of us seem to enjoy. I find it interesting and educational because it’s so easy for me to think of something and type it, without having thought it through completely. You’ve shown quite a few times now that you’re willing to adapt & evolve to what the market wanted and to make the best product you can.

I gotta agree it makes sense to get the first production models out there, they look great. I think they’re the most elegant IH design I’ve seen to date. I also think you’re correct in that most users are going to love a robust, custom-built IH in a handsome and very durable enclosure for that $135-150 price point! Once the word-of-mouth on the kick-ass fluxes heaters builds, you’ll have those customers who want and can afford other cases coming to you. It could very well wind up like vapcaps, with basic but fully functional units with “standard” enclosures and other more expensive, cosmetic variants. But I’m on record as loving this enclosure you’ve chosen, it’s plenty good enough for me and my vapcaps!
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Thanks, @maxvapor710 ! I absolutely take your word for that!

As I said in a post earlier today, the aesthetic I was aiming for was "handsome," and I think I've hit that pretty squarely. If someone really wants something else - be it something unique or something simply more professionally made - contact Vacavapes.com about anodizing a naturally-finished enclosure after I've drilled it for a heater, or contact me about having something custom machined, and THEN anodized by vacavapes.com (or whomever). The guts of the heaters are very portable and can easily be transferred to a new case once it has been prepped.

:tup:
 

maxvapor710

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
@mr_cfromcali If you have a design ready with step files / drawings I can get a quote on small runs from my machinist.

You might not be able to make any money on that side of things, but I think users that want that aesthetic might pay for the upgrade on-demand. I can usually get stuff machined and anodized in about 10 days provided it isn't super complicated and you want like 5 - 10 pieces at a time.
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
@mr_cfromcali If you have a design ready with step files / drawings I can get a quote on small runs from my machinist.

You might not be able to make any money on that side of things, but I think users that want that aesthetic might pay for the upgrade on-demand. I can usually get stuff machined and anodized in about 10 days provided it isn't super complicated and you want like 5 - 10 pieces at a time.

Thanks, @maxvapor710 ! I'm not able to act on this at the moment - I lack the drawings, for one thing - but I would love to do this in the future! I don't need to make money on every phase of this project for it to be successful - I'd prefer not to lose money, but I'd be very happy to break even on something like that. It's the same reason I reached out to vacavapes.com about his custom etched enclosures: some people are interested in a different aesthetic than my own. This is another way to let them get what they want, while I can still build the device as I designed it, since that design is the one that matches my capabilities.

Thanks for the offer of introduction to your machinist! I will take you up on that soon, when I have a bit more bandwidth!
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Hi all,

Sorry for the long silence, but it has been a busy week. I'll put a longer post together when I have time but I want to tell you all briefly that testing of the Deluxe is going well! I have not heard of any new issues for a few days, and all of the current issues I'm aware of have been resolved (at least on my end). I have a few more heaters going out with the latest revisions last week and this week, and am hopeful they test out. If they're stable, I think we are good to go.

More details to come. :)

PS: For the discerning thread follower that prefers the Deluxe's sister, I have not forgotten about the Mother Fluxer. It will get some attention soon, I promise. :)
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Hi all,

OK, here's the long-overdue update I promised. Sorry for the wall of text, but I guess that's just how I roll, lol.

Flux Deluxe:

Field testing continues and is hopefully close to concluding (!) - I want to wrap it up this week, if possible. To date, my field testers and early adopters have found some excellent issues, as I had hoped they would. Thank you, field testers and early adopters!

The heaters are definitely better now after being tested - they run cooler, and they are less likely to spill completely out of their cases if dropped. :clap:

The heaters will leave the testing phase with at least one other nice change to the circuit, an unexpected bonus feature: a temperature adjuster, to allow you to slow the temperature rise a bit! This is meant to be something you set and forget, so for now, there's no ability to adjust the temp on-the-fly. Maybe for V2. ;).

IMG-6701-private.jpg


IMG-6701-closeup-private.jpg


Why introduce a new feature to a critical part of the circuit at this late stage of the development game? Because this new feature is a really just a simple extension of the new switch debounce circuit, and all it takes to add this feature is ONE additional resistor. It's just too useful not to include it, and it wouldn't stay hidden for very long, anyway, so I might as well introduce it and explain it.

A few weeks ago I introduced the new switch debouncing circuit, which passes the signal from the tactile switch to the PWM relay through a resistor, buffered by a capacitor. This creates a ~60 microsecond (60ms) buffer between the tactile switch and the heater's input relay. This cleans the input signal and what emerges is a single event instead of a series of many quick, disparate events (aka, a bouncing switch). That's the circuit as I first deployed it.

It recently occurred to me that If I added a second, variable resistor in series with the first, I could further reduce the power to the PWM relay.

A quick aside about this PWM relay, and a callback to my first post, at the beginning of this entire thread: While this relay can act as a simple on/off switch, it actually brings a lot more functionality than that to the table, and can do more interesting things if you ask it to. For example, if you give the trigger less power, the relay will, in turn, reduce the power it puts out. Lower power = lower temp = slightly longer heating time.

I have a history with this relay. It played a key role in my first IH project, using a pulse width modulated (PWM) signal signal as an IH temp control. This temp control uses a very different methodology, but it produces similar results.

A few notes about this feature:

1. You don't have to touch this control at all if you don't want to. It will be set to zero by default, making it transparent and imparting no affect.

2. This is an offset, meaning that the circuit has a fixed amount of resistance in place. You will never get any less resistance than that amount, as that base amount of resistance is necessary for the debounce circuit to function properly. This control will never enable the heater to heat more quickly than its default setting.

What you can do with it is add additional resistance to the input trigger signal. This reduces the strength of the heater's output by limiting its input voltage, giving you a crude by nonetheless effective temp control. Some testers reported that the Deluxe heated TOO efficiently, and the time between insertion and clicking could be very short once everything got up to temp, so this is a way to compensate for that and makle it a bit less efficient, if so desired. (Aside: induction heating is much, much more effective when the work coil and the piece being worked are already hot!)

A couple of caveats about this:

1. You need to use this feature responsibly! I debated what range of adjustment I wanted to give the user, and decided to treat you as adults and give you the whole useful range. That said, you want to monitor the time it takes from insertion to click. The ideal time is likely between 4-9 seconds, with ~7 seconds being a nice compromise between flavor, vapor production, battery life, and guarding against heat generation.

2. I have no way to enforce this, but 10 seconds per heating event is a safe maximum event length. Be aware that using it for too long, even at a lower temp, causes the heater to get hot (duh), but this leads to heat soak (i.e., hot parts staying hot) and makes it more likely to trip the thermal fuse. Extended use also works the PWM relay hard, which generates some additional heat around the PWM relay, a spot that does not have a dedicated vent hole. So as I said, please use this feature responsibly.

3. A lower temp can make for a nicer vaping experience, especially if you want to leave your vapcap in the heater for an extra second or two, as one sometimes needs to do with an IH; the lower temp/slower heating time makes it harder to combust, giving you more control over extended heating sessions.

4. The control is can be adjusted with a small flat blade screw driver (no screwdriver included, sorry). There will be a small access hole under the right-most battery's negative terminal, as shown in the photo below. You can also adjust it by removing the battery tray and moving it with your finger.

IMG-6704-private.jpg


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

What happens next:

We are in a holding pattern for a few more days while I wait for some additional testing feedback, just to make sure all is good.

I expect to make a go/no go call by the end of the week.

Sooner, if the testing reports indicate that it's ready.

I am already starting to build out subassemblies while we are waiting, as I think the design is stable. If I need to make a small fix or some such thing after these are built, so be it.

I have 15 battery sleds built out, for example, and another 10 in process. These actually take more time to build than the circuit boards, so this is nice head start.

I have also been honing my enclosure game! I now have some very good methods for installing the magnets w/quick drying epoxy. This used to be a little terrifying (epoxy gives you SO many easy ways to fuck up!), but I have a better command of the process now and it's not only going well, it's actually pretty fun. Same goes for marking and drilling the enclosures. I made some drilling template stickers that make it MUCH easier to precisely mark, punch, and drill the cases. Tip: Use see-through address labels as templates! They WORK, and they come off easily afterwards! You can see these on some of these drilled enclosures:

IMG-6727-private.jpg

Drilled enclosures, prior to cleanup. The holes are actually clean; most of the cruft you see are the remnants of the new drilling templates stickers.

Once I'm satisfied that these are good, I'm going to start working through the waiting list, so that you can finally get your Deluxes! With that in mind, I am putting together a big enclosure order, as I want to make sure I have the right colors on hand for everyone who has expressed a preference. If you want a Deluxe but have not yet told me your color, please let me know ASAP, as I will be ordering these enclosures this week. Black is going to be well represented, and I'll have some extra, as well as a few extra natural and dark green cases (and gun metal, if/when that comes in), but if you want something else - blue, green orange, etc, - please let me know ASAP!

And with that, I think I had better bring this novel to a close.

Thanks for your support, everyone! I'm hoping for a successful week!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

TL;DR: Fluxer Deluxe testing is going well and should wrap up this week. Some bugs were found and fixed. One new feature was added. Cases take time to drill.

And finally, some pics of the most recent Deluxe:

IMG-6678-private.jpg


IMG-6679-private.jpg


IMG-6686-private.jpg


Thanks all! :love:

:leaf: :peace:
 
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