Divine Tribe atty's

PPN

Volute of Vapor
Yes, I'll use my dual battery mod in this case but I have 2xSony VTC6 brand new batteries too... Are they better designed for this purpose? I still not used them cause idk if it's better to use them paired or alone...

Just realized my dual battery mod (Movkin Disguiser) get a shitty TC mode, you can't set a TCR and will stick with the Ni mode... maybe it's time to buy a new mod...
 
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Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
Keep on questing...last week after using my QQ and letting my session run a little longer than I should have to get that last marginal reclaim puff, I had a little dark-crusty left over from some cheap crumble, and it wouldn't swab off, so I tried my first high-temp burnoff to get the crust off. First burning it off in TC mode seemed to take too long, so I went to VW 30-40 watts and it burned off all the dark crust after many power cycles.

Unfortunately, this high-temp burnoff seemd to throw off a contact somewhere on the atty, and my Ω rose to around 0.3 and became more shaky where it was stable at 0.258Ω before, and was dumping to VW mode alot. I could have just re-locked at around 0.3 or so, but I don't like that work-around. Adjusting the bottom pin didn't help either, so I had to let it sit for a few days till I had time to rebuild it, and a simple rebuild restored the original 0.258Ω, firing up in TC mode again no problem. IDK exactly why the contact degraded so much from the burnoff, but at least it was easy enough to fix. Still somewhat annoying, hopefully those upgraded parts that Matt has coming in will solve these problems and make the QQ more reliable and get rid of these little bugs :doh:

The rebuild was a good excuse to snap a better breakdown pic
HFhhiIO.jpg

Showing how the sub-assembly of the cup, rods, metal saddle and "floating pin" connect together to be inserted in the main metal housing, secured with the gold pin from the bottom. I found it easier to partially build this sub-assembly and insert into the housing, 2 / 4 wires already secure, instead of building the whole thing in the base. Easier with the wire leads this way.

And some random quatz pr0n and glass pics too? :brow: :spliff:

3UMhTD8.jpg

Just some cheap pull/snap shatter

8CzHDMd.jpg

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and some sfv og co2 oil. it's easier to load the cup than the donut, not having to avoid the hole. It's fine if it touches the side wall because it will fall to the floor as the cup heats up

EVfCXEb.jpg



Some cheap ak-47 crumbles, this was the load that crusted me up because i chased the reclaim puffs too hard

Mu5POoq.jpg


Sprinkles of dry crumbles


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Some raw garden cherry slurm live resin "sauce" :brow: this is the best stuff i've fed to my QQ so far, some soupy, saucy mix with chunky white thca rocks drowning in terps :luv: I had a session or two where I overheated this stuff and much of the flavor was sacrificed :( but I've also gotten it right and enjoyed some great flavor from the first 2 hits and enough good taste to chase another carefully pulsed 6-8 hits before I swab up very little from the cup after. For this very terpy stuff, flavor can be as good as the V3, but it takes more caution, and low-temp hits with the V3 are so much easier and reliable. Maybe a donut tastes smoother because the overall air can be around ~400F instead of ~500F on the quartz? :uhh:


qQyibk5.jpg

3d-printed plastic stands are great for keeping your vape/dabbing gear in order

hlghtdU.jpg

Made a simple 14mm adapter for this little recycler rig and it was working very well just like some of my larger 18mm rigs


I have been trying different settings for temperature control on my Quest. Lots of fun. So easy to clean after each 'test'.

Reddit user MAXVapor710 had custom settings ( TCR 225 / 35 watts / around 530°F ) mentioned in this comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DivineTribeVaporizers/comments/7t1xus/qq_coils_glowing_red/dtalurx/

Using these settings as a guide, on my DNA75C I am now using: TCR 225 / 33.5watts / 540°F and getting good results.
The heat seems to climb closer to the set temperature and overshoot it much less than my old settings ( Ni mode 310-320°F and 44-45 watts ).


rRwznpJ.jpg

Cool pics with the FLIR gun, much better readings than a regular IR themometer! I love the hi-resolution granularity these things can show, can be so useful for tuning some of these attys we use. :tup: I was going to borrow one of these things from work to observe / tune my QQ and V3s, but I looked up the specs for the model and it only detects up to 300F :( not that useful for our purposes. I see you have one of the more high end models that are good up to 1200, 1400F?

You can see how all the intense heat of the quartz cup overflows into the adjacent pixels because it's so much hotter than it's surroundings! :o

It would be pretty cool to see some similar pics with the DTV3 to see how close / stable your settings can be in controlling the donuts, and also to observe how much / little temperature difference there is from the hot & cool spots on the donut

A video of the QQ heating up in real time with the FLIR would be cool too, so you can observe how stable / unstable the cup temps can be once they reach temp....:sherlock:

Thanks for sharing those recommended mod settings too. Based on using that after my recent rebuild, I think 225 may be a little better to control the overheating vs. my 240, but I tried 35w and it's too slow for me, so I'm using TCR 225, 50w, 520F now, still with 900, 20 for PI, and this may be a little better than my earlier settings, but you still gotta manually control the button after reaching temp still......:shrug:


@Vape Donkey 650... the issue with joyetech devices is the 510 pin not giving a solid resistance reading. if the chip isnt gettin as good of a resistance reading all the time, how can it give as good temp control as devices with proper grounding? it just isnt gonna happen regardless of what firmware is installed on the chip.

heres the quote from the people at AF themselves

“the main hardware problem is in connection of negative 510 post (threading) to common ground. It is not connected by wire (as on Pico), it is just press fitted in body. And common ground from PCB goes on body through screws. The saddest situation is in Predator, the grounding passes through the body through a variety of compounds, which can not in any way provide a good contact. No solid contact - the resistance is incorrectly measured, it is usually overestimated on atomizer detect. Then you press Fire, the current (compared to the measuring one) increases significantly, somewhere the contact gets better, and the box measures the resistance already lower than in the idle time, which is actually the right one.”

same thing with the inadequate gauge of wire used in the other models. seems the eleaf products may not suffer from this issue.

regardless it doesnt mean that joyetech products are bad. they are great! just not as accurate as other devices on the market. and not all cost much more money. so are the joyetech devices, with AF, as accurate as others? no. tons of data can be found to support this, BUT... will it affect your vaping experience...? thats up to you. many people use and love them as they should.

I've been wondering about this too. What is the maximum benefit of the higher end chipsets? I've been considering picking up one for quite a while now, I just can't imagine that the benefit would be worth both the added cost as well as the time spent learning & setting up new software, setting curves etc. Though my arguably unhealthy desire for infinite tinkering has had my interest piqued for about a year now, ha.

I could see how this could affect crazy low resistance builds, especially with SS316, but given the QQ is about the lowest resistance concentrate atty I've come across, and that the stated resistance of the QQ coils (as well as donut resistance in other DT products) is within 0-5 hundredths of an ohm of the resistance the mod is detecting, I just don't know how clinically significant that added resolution could be for our purposes. All this being said, I still kinda want one, ha.

I'm also curious, do any of the premium chipsets seem better for DT & similar products? DNA, Gene, HSK, YiHi... I don't really know the difference... I assume they all have a PC interface?

I see what you're saying about the inferior 510 connectors and leads on the joyetech / eleaf mods, but as Bad Ocelot is saying, I think that can only make a significant difference on coils lower than 0.100Ω or so, where the highest accuracy and resolution in reading the coil is needed for TC since it's rise during operation is so much smaller. The cheaper mods might only be accurate and stable to 0.003Ω or so at best from what I can see with the live resistance, but for the coils I use ranging from 0.27 to 1.3Ω, having that higher level of precision seems like it may not make a noticeable, measureable improvement?

But maybe it can? I would like to see more back-to-back comparisons of different chipsets and mods with attys for concentrates that people like us use, b/c I think some of the highest-end vape mod stuff is only really beneficial to the cutting-edge vanguard of e-cig geeks?
 
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Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
so unless im misunderstanding, of which is very possible lol, id say the difference in that .01ohm can be considerable. and i would imagine this would be the case regardless of the material being heated...?

Having the wrong resistance reading can certainly have downstream effects. When vaping nic juice, where the juice is directly in contact with the coil, this is pretty easily noticeable. However since our wire is encased in ceramic, and in the case of the QQ the ceramic is in contact with the quartz, we're a few degrees removed from the end user of the heat, so to speak. Since it's the ceramic heating the concentrate, or the ceramic heating the quartz heating the concentrate, getting the precise resistance of the wire is a little less important.

Correct, and correct. The Ω being off by as little as 0.01 can translate into a 10-15F difference / inaccuracy measured at the surface of a donut IME. Before I started using myEv / AF, the random fluctuations in measured, cold coil Ω one could expect with the stock FW on the joyetech mods could frustrate me greatly, because I would "know" my donut to have a certain, lower Ω, but the mod would insist on a higher Ω at times when switching attys, and it could throw your settings off quite alot, and it could be tricky to force the proper Ω on the mod. That's partially why I accumulated so many mods, to keep a dedicated mod/atty paired up, with the same Ω locked in, not thrown off by switching up attys.

Now with AF, being able to manually adjust coil Ω and easily set up profiles that auto-detect, the need for so many mods to pair with each atty seems unnecessary, but at least it saves some of my 510 connectors from the abuse of repeated screw on/offs :shrug: plus it leaves me with plenty of vapes that sit at rest, 100% ready to go at the press of a button, to enjoy different strains on-demand

And yes, also..in the case of the QQ, those minute Ω differences aren't going to make much difference, since there are those layers of separation in the heat transfer and contacts.

But regarding shaky, unstable live-resistance Ω that you can observe with a cheap mod on AF, or the fluctuating coil Ω you might see with the same atty on stock FW, which may be caused by the cheaper 510 connectors, I see how this can affect temp accuracy for dabbing directly off donuts and metal coils.

I've found it's easy to correct for this with AF by simply observing the live coil Ω for a while, give it quick power pulses, let it cool off good, remove it, re-screw it in, wiggle it, ensure all contacts are good, and observe the Ω. It will go up and down some, it may be very stable. Some spikes will be flukishy high or low and momentary, yet some of my cheap mods give really stable live Ω at rest. Just watch, and pick the lowest, stable, non-flukish reading you see, and lock that in, and you can enjoy stable, accurate repeateable temps even with the cheap mods, even switching using multiple attys with profiles + smart mode. Of more than a dozen joyetech mods I use, only 2, an evic basic and a vtc mini, had some spikeyness in the live coil Ω. But by manually locking a good, low coil Ω, I enjoy excellent, stable TC, even if the cold live Ω is a bit jumpy :mental: I think it's all about starting the TCR calculations with the key variables (importantly Ω) at the right point. Even if the mod's sensors are less precise, I think it gets more accurate as your coil heats up?


question about the leads on the donuts, and my apologies if this has been covered, but why are the leads so delicate? why not use a more rigid material for the leads?

It's not so much the wire leads themselves that are delicate, but rather the solder that joins them to the donut that are somewhat delicate, or they are the weak point on the whole donut or ceramic rod.

You can bend and move the nichrome wire about as much as any other vaping wire, even though it's pretty short. The metal wire can get a little brittle with extended use and especially being burned clean, but it is where the wire joins the solder you must be most careful with.

When bending / manipulating the wire, do it from the middle or bottom half, not from the top part of the wire close to the solder, or it may snap off. Using pliers to straighten the wire leads helps sometimes too since it can be hard to do just with your fingers. And when inserting / removing the donut from the cup, don't force things too much and make sure the leads are straight to avoid breakage, especially if you're crusted up with reclaim

UPDATE: i am very pleased to say that when i got home from work yesterday i put the V3 on my DNA device and it has been working perfectly since. its like the issue above never happened at all. and i did nothing different. i use quality LG and samsung cells, but the same brown LG was used every time with this V3. same mod. same atty/donut. must have been a connection issue somewhere, but im good about identifying bad connectionsz. idk. strange indeed.

anyway, i am really enjoying the V3 so far. i am still getting an odd taste though, but its not off putting and im getting plenty of flavor. also from everything ive read there is no reason to be concerned with material safety here so im ok with it. what i do really like is how easily cleaned it is after each use, but i assume that nee donut bright white will never be achieved again? lol

Nice to hear you're enjoying the V3 now 2clicker! That was pretty weird how it wasn't TC'ing for you on 2 good mods, when TC'ing this atty is usually a breeze on a decent mod. :mental: That's weird how it seems to have "fixed itself" without changing anything, because it normally doens't work out that way, but I guess you'll just have to enjoy this mystery :D

When first using any new donut or almost any new vape (that doesn't have a cotton/fiber wick) it's always good to do a dry fire / burn off to remove any residual flotsam. After 2 puffs, a new donut makes no more smoke / emissions that I can notice and tastes neutral to me. I'm wondering what the odd taste is you notice? Maybe it's just a "ceramic" flavor that is new to you but has become natural and un-detectable to many of us donut veterans? At least you're still enjoying some great flavor and the overall experience, and surely you can rig up some other interesting builds with those extra donuts and RDAs you have

You can get them back to "new" white a couple ways. Burn off with the mod (higher temp or wattage mode) which I'm not too fond of or with a torch while disassembled. I've been using the same donut for about 6 months now. I q-tip after every 5-10 loads and disassemble and torch the donut and cup every 6-8 weeks and make sure there's no leakage into the base. I will occasionally hit it upside down which helps with the stuff under the donut and I cover one intake and blow backward through the other (with a bit of heat) when q-tipping to help soak up extra reclaim. A paper towel rolled like a ciggarette is also great for soaking up reclaim (better than q-tip actually). I've found (with a thermocouple) that the donut is hotter in some areas than others and those are the spots that seem to get darker first.

Yup, after swabbing no longer gets your donut clean enough, and it has some hard crust left over that won't swab off, it's time to burn it off. I like to burn it clean under the mod's power, only 10w for the medium donut or about 14w for the large. Some people will burn clean at higher watts but that's inadvisable IMO, because too much watts in VW mode for extended periods is the other easy way to break a donut. 10 or 14w for 10/13mm donuts may take longer to burn clean, but you can pulse the fire button for minutes at a time at the lower watts and it won't break. 20 or 30w may burn it clean quicker, but you can bust it real easy if you hold it down for too long :doh:

Burning clean makes it nearly as white as new, like a slightly off-white cream with some "seasoning" lines but all the crust is gone and max flavor is restored, so that's what really matters

By watching the donut glow red during a burn off you can observe the hotter and cooler spots bizwax is talking about. (a little cooler closer to the solders)

Even after re-assembling a freshly burned-clean donut, I see a couple more wisps of vapor / emissions when firing in TC mode which I assume is just residual moisture or maybe oils from my fingers when assembling? So generally, dry-firing to ensure cleanliness is good

thanks @bizwaxzion!

when you swab are you heating it just before swabbing?

I hold the power down as I swab, but to a lower temp than I vape at. If I vape at around 400, I lower to ~340-350F as a I swab, b/c I feel swabbing at full vaping temp with no air flow almost makes more crust and off-flavor as you are cleaning it, and puffing the donut dry and empty after a full-heat swab tastes slightly more reclaimish/crusty vs. a low temp swab. Like biz says, the point is only to make the reclaim run out during the hot swab, not to vape it.
 
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Hoosier

Well-Known Member
You sure called that 'really hard on battery life' right. 55 Watts, where I'm running, pushes a single 18650 mighty hard. Harder than most 'garden variety' ones can take. To even get started you need a high current version. 55 Watts to the load means something like 65 from the battery (the other ten Watts is what makes the battery/mod heat in use. So we're talking about 20 Amps, give or take, when things are fresh. And, remember, this is not the same 20 Amps the e-cig guys use since they 'only' heat a few seconds per hit. I was unable to find any 18650s with believable 30 Amp continuous ratings. Lots of claims but no hard data? Anyone know of a real one? It could give the little mods a bowl or two more?

It will work, and work well, but takes attention to detail. I think the best call for me (and I suspect most guys) will be a two cell mod. I'm using my Cuboid which I'd given up on as being too heavy a while back. I uses a pair in series (7.2 nominal not 3.6) so each cells 'carries half the load'. It's a 150 Watt mod, it's loafing along to give me 55 of that. Half a dozen loads brought me down to 50%, where I recharged. I've ordered a VTC Dual which hopefully will work as well, be a little lighter and a 'better' aspect ratio (narrow and deep).

One thing sure, QQ can bring home the goods, it's worth the effort to treat it right......

OF
My QQ is paired with my cuboid 150w as well. Cuboid provides a nice heavy base for it too!
 
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Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
Sigh...try to catch up with my DT/FC stuff...

Matt had sent me an early prototype of the new "jet stream" rda along with my new QQ a few weeks ago, and with the QQ and many other vape projects keeping me busy, I finally got around to trying this thing out and making something worthy of dabbing off of.

My first attempts with this RDA using a pair of the same ceramic rods on the QQ were un-impressive, much of the oil slipped off the rods and fell onto the ceramic build deck and didn't get vaped, and I wasn't getting much vapor yielded for the same small loads that I would load on the V3 or other ceramic attys and get plenty of vapor.

So with the big open build space with no posts, I figured this would be a good place to try not 1, but 2 big 13mm donuts? :brow:

3oJO30b.jpg


pzrN9og.jpg


I hadn't been using the biggest donuts much at all because I don't like how the cup doesn't line up flush with the ceramic housing of the V3, making it difficult to collect / scrape the splatter on the seam of the cup/housing. I know that is why some of you large donut fans use the V3 with the screws on the base removed, or you clean / reload the large donut with the outer housing removed. That works, but I don't want the lack of a solid seal between the metal and ceramic base, especially when slipping the whole thing into a glass rig / adapter.

So now I'm getting the benefit of easy access for loading / swabbing that you screw-less V3 fans have always enjoyed, but with double the donuts! :o

gSo6E68.jpg

XeEM2Gy.jpg

Some more cheap shatter, flash or natural light

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Here's some more of that nice terpy raw garden sauce. Love that big crystal-clear THCa pebble, dripping in sauce :p

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close up of that cherry slurm

mH6Ppka.jpg

oS5tjCt.jpg

And some less cheap, not as dry, slightly more oily-tasty wax / crumble, "jack cheddar" :p (no flash, or flash)

Colg7MN.jpg

And of course, I connect it to my rigs with tubes.

8uIv5S5.jpg

After about 8 or 10 sessions here, just swabbing clean after. At this rate I can vape maybe a gram or more of good concentrate before I might see any crusting that will make me want to burn it clean. A little oil has slipped underneath to the ceramic build deck, but very little so far, with nothing appearing to be slipping into the wire slots, clinging to the wire leads.

So it does work well, with good vapor production and flavor as you would expect from big ceramic donuts, but maybe not as much in terms of vapor production that you might want? Certainly not double the amount you'd get from a single 13mm donut running optimally in the V3 housing.

That could be partially in how I'm using it, not over-loading the donut and using moderate heat settings.

The directional air flow tubes are cool, and offer plenty of airflow. It feels like much more airflow than the V3. It makes a noticeably increased glugging/chugging sound on my rigs that is absent when using the V3. On my early attempts, I think I was drawing too hard, and it was pushing oil from the center of the donuts to the periphery, and I would use a dab tool to gently move it back to the middle and spread it evenly across the donut surface. Trying with a slower, steadier draw, the oil wouldn't be pushed around to the edges as much, and I could get a nicer, thicker cloud that wasn't diluted with as much air.

It would still take me many puffs to finish those loads pictured before it was minimal and crusty, like 10 or more, I was hoping such great donut surface could handle small loads with fewer puffs to finish :shrug:Maybe it's just how I'm using it

So overall, this thing is pretty cool, and enjoyable, it works, and it has some potential for versatile DIY builds, but 2 questions I'm trying to determine still:

  • how much better is this than some readily available RDAs with post-less decks for donut or ceramic type builds? Maybe not much better? The directional airflow cap is the unique part with the jet stream, but I don't have much to compare it against to evaluate it's effectiveness

  • how much better is this than the same donuts in the V3? Maybe not much better also :shrug:The extra airflow is noticeable in the jetstream, but IDK if it's being fully utilized with these donuts? Even with the potential downsides of reclaim oil falling into the cup and following the lead wires into the posts with the V3 and it's bottom-up airflow, these are completely manageable issues that provide big vapor production by forcing all of the air directly over some of the key donut surfaces, in the right direction.

This is just an early production still, and I'm sure some of you guys can come up with other novel, effective ways to use this RDA, but I have a feeling that this RDA would be ideal for that heated alumina ceramic crucible cup with the wire leads soldered in that many of us are hoping for in the future, like the source terra 2 heater. Maybe if someone just plugged in that heater to this RDA with it's directional air, we can have a hybrid of the QQ and the V3, with quick warmups and on-demand cool, stable temp puffs like the donuts, but also the quick, easy, heated swabbing clean-up and directional air like the QQ? :sherlock:

If this is any indication, much more good vape stuff may be headed our way soon....:evil:
 
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looney2nz

Research Geek, Mad Scientist
so, it's sounding like the old guard VTwin Mini should be retired in lieu of a newer dual or triple battery perhaps one of these newer cells - https://hohmtech.com/? What will hold such things?
 
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OF

Well-Known Member
so, it's sounding like the old guard VTwin Mini should be retired in lieu of a newer dual or triple battery perhaps one of these newer cells - https://hohmtech.com/? What will hold such things?

In this fun world of ours a couple of us 'usual suspects' have been discussing just that outfits 18650 offering a few hours ago. I suggest you wonder over to the ArGo thread and read a bit. IMO this is not a good idea; they are playing games with specifications. Used at the current levels we need for single cell mods driving the QQ they will potentially get dangerously hot. This was tested and reported on a link in that thread.

Our very own @KeroZen ran it to earth for us, stout fellow he is.

Notice also Homtech themselves say:

"DO NOT USE WITH E-CIGARETTE, VAPORIZER, OR SIMILAR DEVICE"

As a guess I suspect for this (heat build up) issue? While it might be different for short periods of use or where there is better cooling, that's not what we have here with QQ and the mods we use. We push them long (much longer than e-cig guys) and very very hard for a single cell (to the limit of the best available 18650s) and we put it all in a small box with little to no airflow. This 18650 smells of 'specsmanship'. Proceed with caution? It is definitely not as superior as they claim it seems. No magic here.

OF

Edit: While I wasn't working it seems the discussion of the safety of the Homtech cells got moved, it's here:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/18650-battery-safety.18527/page-5

OF
 
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ArchVape

Princess of the Biscotti Republic
I notice that no one ever asks about the overheating protection on the evic or other chipsets.

Evic/picos/wesmic if the chipset temps reach 70C (158F) the device will display "device too hot" and will not fire.
 
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OF

Well-Known Member
I notice that no one ever asks about the overheating protection on the evic or other chipsets.

Evic/picos/wesmic if the chipset temps reach 70C (158F) the device will display "device too hot" and will not fire.

Yep, and if it's on ATT it'll shut down mid hit.......don't ask me how I know this?

And good thing, commercial semiconductors generally go 'out of spec' at 70C, the makers no longer guarantee their performance. Who knows what might happen if parts of the electronics selectively decided to take a nap.....or run rogue. I suspect overtemp protection is built into the processors for just this reason whether they tell us or not?

To let it keep running at those elevated temperatures is 'asking for trouble'. FWIW Arizer puts a thermal cutout inside the battery pack, it kills all power if it gets too toasty inside. Not taking chances. Here's the pack with the cover removed (the cutout is the white block between the cells on the right):
Xm1CurQ.jpg


OF
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Got my new heater cartridges today and rebuild was successful :)

Also working better than ever! Much more stable it seems :)

Edit: I think the increased stability is as a result of the resistance staying more stable ...?
 
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divinetribe

We are trying our hardest to become Medical Grade
Manufacturer
Here are some pictures of the new quest with upgraded screws, post, insulator, 510 pin, and quartz bucket. These will be sent out to all 1st batch buyers and this will be standard for the 2nd batch production. I will be getting this prototype sent and should have it in hand for testing by feb 12. The chinese spring holiday will last till feb 23rd and production of upgraded parts will start soon after. I hope to mail out new parts and have 2nd production by the beginning of March. Please email matt@ineedhemp.com for customer service. Your loyalty and patience with my company will be recognized and rewarded. This is not the first vaporizer I have created and it will not be my last. Sincerely Matt Macosko of Divine Tribe
 

divinetribe

We are trying our hardest to become Medical Grade
Manufacturer
i haven't dirtied or put power to my QQ yet. Not sure i want it after reading about some of these connection issues.

i opened the shrink wrap to look at it, thats all.

what should i do with it?

Check the screws make sure there tight set your battery do a 1 minute burn off, use it and watch the trouble shooting videos to keep it going also email me matt@ineedhemp.com to get a confirmation email that you are on the list for upgraded parts.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
Gentle Friends,

A couple of random thoughts on the QQ for your consideration?

First off, while it may take a bit of fiddling (and I no doubt made it tougher on myself in the process.....) once 'set up' it's been quite stable and well worth the effort. Well worth it. Not as easy to handle than V3, but IMO much superior for the trouble.

And the power (second point). These guys need a LOT more than other DT products. I'm running at 55 Watts, a bit less will work but is even slower. 55 takes maybe 10 seconds (or a bit less). But 55 Watts is really pushing a small mod (like we usually use) with a single 18650 really really hard. Most 18650s aren't safe, unfortunately this includes several of the 'best possible available' cells well respected elsewhere. Like say the Panasonic IMR18650B. A champ in the all important capacity (3400mAh). You know, the simple numbers that sell stuff? The rub is that's it's only a 5 Amp cell. And we need over 15? Really closer to 20. And that has to be an honest, continuous rating. The e-cig guys really push things it seems and largely survive to brag about it and raise the bar since they run a few seconds at a time. Not us, we can do back to back loads running many minutes continuous running to really let the heat build up.....

So, thanks to a tip, by @KeroZen if I recall correctly, I went to the serious e-cig guys' haunts and educated myself some. If you want to run a single cell mod at this level your choices are pretty small, really. Samsung has the 25R (2500mAh). They also have the popular 30Q at a more attractive 3000, but it's a 15 Amp cell and would be marginal (and in most trouble near end of charge). Sony has several VTC4 (2100), 5 (2600), and 5A (2500). The 5A is probably the best choice since it's rated at 25A and will therefore run cooler (and last longer) under the same conditions. The VTC6 is again a 15 Amp unit. Lastly, from what I can gather, The LG HE2 is worth considering. 2500mAh again at 20 Amps much like 25R, VTC5, and 5A.

That's my advice on 18650s, at least for now. Those brands/models from known good vendors. Avoid 'rewraps' even if you know what's under the wrap. Seriously. And even then you can't be sure that counterfeits haven't gotten into honest stock. Basically every cell available to us is Gray Market. Sony doesn't label or market for individual end users. They sell to guys that make big battery packs, like the electric car guys. Distributors buy up surplus and move them to the consumer market. There have been reports of entire cases (200 cells?) in 'sealed factory boxes' being counterfeit. Some even mixed in the same cases with 'almost right' tape sealing them. Even the best sellers can get fooled, but they are looking out for you and I and will stand by any problems. Not a good time to get cheap and jump on that great price on EBay?

I think a better solution involves a two or even 3 cell mod. Not only does this make it easier on the poor battery (sharing the load) but it'll go more than twice as long with two cells as 1 between charges all else being equal since the cells aren't pushed as hard (and don't get as hot).

Finally (and you thought it'd never come.....) I think QQ has some interesting demonstrations of Physics for us that lead me to a possible improvement.

We heat the floor plate by conduction (for the most part, some radiation after the element glow), and therefore the concentrate sitting on it. And up the walls of the cup, causing a 'gradient' as we go up the walls and they cool. Eventually we get vapor. Remember, you can't see vapor mixed with air any more than you can see moisture in the air. What we see is condensation of individual molecules into an aerosol of tiny (few micron) particles much like we can see fog form as it cools (and the air can no longer hold as much water). Same here. If you look closely you'll see that the cup doth not runnith over with visible vapor? That's because it rises until it gets to air under 200C or so then condenses into particles heavy enough for gravity to pull down again. I managed to even leave 'a bathtub ring' of condensate playing with this.

But, if we let a jet of cold air in that balance disappears. Now vapor rapidly cools 'everywhere' and the aerosol forms big time.

If you heat too much/long the entire cup gets hot enough and the vapor overflows the top (you can see it form and fall), leaving condensate on the outside. Lost forever there.

Fun stuff.

Now to the idea. How about a metal ring or some other heatsink at the top of the cup forcing the 'magic point' downward into the cup again. I don't normally push it hard enough to benefit but I'm sure many do.

Thanks for hanging in there for all that, but perhaps better all at once? Anyway my advice is to carefully pick your cell(s) for this high power application. Consider multi cell mods. Watch what happens in the QQ bowl, there's good insights (and some fun) to be had there. And finally perhpas there's a chance to improve the system with some passive cooling at the top. FWIW, an entire class of vacuum pumps, Diffusion Pumps, run on just this process. Oil is boiled, the vapor rises and is condensed to fall back 'into the pot'. In the process it traps odd gas molecules and pulls them into the pot with it where mechanical pumps can remove it will it's concentrated (mechanical pumps have limit based on displacement volumes much like compression ratios in engines and compressors):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_pump.

Fun stuff.

Regards to all,

OF
 

huffmybrd

Well-Known Member
@OF I didnt wanna quote your whole post but just wanted to say thanks on the battery info. I've got a new mod coming in (it's a surprise which one, won it in a contest lol) so I've been reading up on battery's again lately lol.

But for now I've been using the QQ on a sinuous p80 with a VTC6 and have been getting upwards of 15-20 full sessions untill I need to recharge (around 30%). But I'm also using TC @ 33w so that could be why aswell
 

tylerj55

Well-Known Member
So the QQ is by far my favorite tool for consumption now, when it’s working correctly. I have been using 60w at 225 TCR at 400f, with a locked resistance of .35 and I have to constantly fiddle with it to make sure the device stays working correctly. @divinetribe are we automatically added to the list if we bought in the last week or so?
 

huffmybrd

Well-Known Member
@tylerj55 I believe the resistance needs to be between 0.25 - 0.30 ohms in order for it to fire perfectly.

With that being said, I haven't been able to get mine to drop under 0.33 and have no problems with it. I'm also to scared to break a heater leg so I've yet to take mine apart to super clean it yet (aka I've been using it since day 1, so there may be some reclaim I've spilt lol)
 

OF

Well-Known Member
@tylerj55 I believe the resistance needs to be between 0.25 - 0.30 ohms in order for it to fire perfectly.

With that being said, I haven't been able to get mine to drop under 0.33 and have no problems with it.

I think low resistance is a good key to good connections. Both the two small screws and the brass one that comes up from the 510 connector. This one threads into the saddle plate under the bowl, so be sure the saddle doesn't twist, but it also makes contact with the 'hot' post (up to the heaters on one side). All 3 need to be snug, snug enough so they don't get contact problems as they heat. It only takes an instantaneous poor connection to bump the reading out of range and have the mod default to power (which you should be careful to leave low....).

BTW, I've confirmed what Matt has said about 'stacking' of the leads at the bottom of the slot. The relief hole is wide enough to introduce problems, the 2 leads should be one atop the other with the screw pressing down on both?

Mine start out in the .26 to .28 range finally, but more importantly they are stable. I can unscrew them, use them and they still come back to the same reading when cold. They run to just under .50 Ohms hot, FWIW. So low is important, but so is stable, perhaps more so?

Once sorted out, QQ is quite stable/reliable (as long as I don't fiddle with it......) and does reward a guy with some mighty fine vapor.....

Regards to all.

OF
 

tylerj55

Well-Known Member
@huffmybrd I will have to try setting it lower and check how it is. It never seems to read below .33 for me as well though.

Here’s how I’m using mine:
zS1zVfW.jpg

eSMVl5y.jpg


It’s a crystal star bubble cap and it fits perfectly. I replaced the green o-rings with o-rings from my source nail and the attachment fits perfectly.

My rx300 with 4 LG HE2 has pretty damn good battery life in my opinion.

 
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Kanna_Kult

Well-Known Member
@huffmybrd I will have to try setting it lower and check how it is. It never seems to read below .33 for me as well though.

Here’s how I’m using mine:
zS1zVfW.jpg

eSMVl5y.jpg


It’s a crystal star bubble cap and it fits perfectly. I replaced the green o-rings with o-rings from my source nail and the attachment fits perfectly.

My rx300 with 4 LG HE2 has pretty damn good battery life in my opinion.

Is this the new posiden from HVT? I was wondering if their bubblers would fit the QQ
 
Kanna_Kult,
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