P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
Oh ok , variety pack meaning it was bought as such? Link or company ? . Cool , that one can try different configurations from it . thank you
RBT Open Source build
- Thread starter RastaBuddhaTao
- Start date
Boden
Aspie polymath
If someone does not have the proper knowledge and tools to build a heating element correctly throwing out half information is dangerous.
Especially if they plan to attach it directly (unregulated) to a Lithium ion cell. Or even worse two cells in series.
I recommend using http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html and http://batteryuniversity.com/
Also learn as much as they can from my old friend Battery Mooch.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blogs/mooch.256958/
I am happy to answer any specific questions.
Really excited to see number of talented people that are showing interest in this! Looking to get 10-20 kits out so hopefully folks are working on their design ideas this weekend.
I second @Boden on the dangers of playing with these 18650 batteries. Please watch the battery safety and OS safety videos on the RBT YouTube as well. We don't want anyone to be on the news for blowing off their face. Sub-Ohm builds are no joke.
I am working with @pakalolo to investigate providing a design for Figure 9 to a friend of his that makes steam punk clocks to see if he could build a vape. The IG Live video will be up for the next 24.
I second @Boden on the dangers of playing with these 18650 batteries. Please watch the battery safety and OS safety videos on the RBT YouTube as well. We don't want anyone to be on the news for blowing off their face. Sub-Ohm builds are no joke.
I am working with @pakalolo to investigate providing a design for Figure 9 to a friend of his that makes steam punk clocks to see if he could build a vape. The IG Live video will be up for the next 24.
No it could not. If you build your own heater in another body, it has nothing to do with this thread. You would have to start your own.
If you're new to coil building, I don't recommend any unregulated mod. Regulated mods actually help teach the correlation of ohms to watts and volts, amp draw, power curves, and basic tcr algorithms. After some experience then one should look to unregulated mods if they want to push the artificial limits of regulated mods
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P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
Thanks, @supershredderdan and @Boden, for your advice, links and tips to provide anyone with a good start or Intro. That is the true spirit of a diy! It sure beats inviting everyone then telling some they can't , shouldn't or don't qualify under their requirements.
I don't have any intention of blowing upmy face . and if I was ever to build or sell a vaporizer , I'd triple check for ohms , shorts etc.. I wouldnt want to ship a unit in Europe that has a short or smoking battery just like the member in Milaana thread who recently received his Mi and wasn't able to get a simple rip from it ....
I don't have any intention of blowing upmy face . and if I was ever to build or sell a vaporizer , I'd triple check for ohms , shorts etc.. I wouldnt want to ship a unit in Europe that has a short or smoking battery just like the member in Milaana thread who recently received his Mi and wasn't able to get a simple rip from it ....
Sorry for the confusion with this thread folks. If you read my earlier post I stated that this was just an idea... a work in progress, and asked for suggestions as to how to set it up.
Initially I thought that it would be easiest to supply people Milaana kits with all the parts in them. I then realized that a power supply, volt, current, resistance, and temperature meters really are needed to safely assemble a Milaana. Given that the labor to assemble is not significant, the pricing wouldn't be much less than a new Milaana.
This is of little value to advance the industry. A better approach is to find qualified people to supply materials of construction to in order to advance the designs that are unproven... that is the fun of a DIY for most.
This does two things... it accelerates a bunch of highly creative work on this thread as well as ensures that the effort is stacked with people that have the skills and knowledge to be safe. This base of experts will then be the foundation moving forward.
with the videos detailing each design, and the post to the link to McMaster above, all are armed with the information required to make an RBT Open Source heater.
If you want to put it in a glass joint you can buy them from Mointain Glass. If you want to build the design detailed in Figure 15 (fav) in a portable 3D printed wood then by some boro plates and a glass cutter to sureound the heater. You can use Mica as the plate or glass or ceramic if you choose. If you need a button then eBay is a great place. Need battery contacts or a sled then try Mouser or Digikey. If you want a voltage comtrolled power supply you can use the tried and true Zion OKR chip or a fancy DNA.
With this all is known to all to develop your concepts and list your credentials in this thread to be considered for one of the kits on 2/2/2017.
The fun in DIY is not to start with a proven design that you assemble like a jigsaw puzzle but rather a creative discovery of the physics through the learning in completing the project.
Given the talented people showing interest in this project I believe that this body of work will help advance our little wierd hobby into a place where it will Fuck Combustion.
Initially I thought that it would be easiest to supply people Milaana kits with all the parts in them. I then realized that a power supply, volt, current, resistance, and temperature meters really are needed to safely assemble a Milaana. Given that the labor to assemble is not significant, the pricing wouldn't be much less than a new Milaana.
This is of little value to advance the industry. A better approach is to find qualified people to supply materials of construction to in order to advance the designs that are unproven... that is the fun of a DIY for most.
This does two things... it accelerates a bunch of highly creative work on this thread as well as ensures that the effort is stacked with people that have the skills and knowledge to be safe. This base of experts will then be the foundation moving forward.
with the videos detailing each design, and the post to the link to McMaster above, all are armed with the information required to make an RBT Open Source heater.
If you want to put it in a glass joint you can buy them from Mointain Glass. If you want to build the design detailed in Figure 15 (fav) in a portable 3D printed wood then by some boro plates and a glass cutter to sureound the heater. You can use Mica as the plate or glass or ceramic if you choose. If you need a button then eBay is a great place. Need battery contacts or a sled then try Mouser or Digikey. If you want a voltage comtrolled power supply you can use the tried and true Zion OKR chip or a fancy DNA.
With this all is known to all to develop your concepts and list your credentials in this thread to be considered for one of the kits on 2/2/2017.
The fun in DIY is not to start with a proven design that you assemble like a jigsaw puzzle but rather a creative discovery of the physics through the learning in completing the project.
Given the talented people showing interest in this project I believe that this body of work will help advance our little wierd hobby into a place where it will Fuck Combustion.
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P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
So where would building my own body with a untested /unproven rbt design fit ? This thread? Nothing stops
anyone from trying it , regardless if being "chosen " or not . Is there ?
I did start my own thread, prior to this one being started too..
Yes, last time I checked I am a moderator. For lack of a better place, we have chosen to leave this thread in the DIY section. Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss it further.
Re: patents; I don't have all the facts about who has what patent, and I would suggest that maybe you don't have all the facts as well. If you would like to discuss these issues, please do so via PM. Accusations of duplicity in public threads border on breaking forum rules, so please refrain from casting aspersions without knowing all the facts.
Thank you.
No, that's exactly what this thread was started to encourage. The existence of a group of selected builders doesn't mean that the project is off limits to anyone else.
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
I gotta butt in real quick regarding the "why can't certain people participate if it's DIY?" bit.
I don't really blame RBT for being picky about who gets to play with these things. The coils are subohm coils which in itself isn't exactly an issue, but it becomes an "issue" when it's an unregulated device. It works on the same principal that mechanical ecigs work, there are no electronics to dictate power draw from the batteries, so it dumps whatever voltage the batteries are on directly to the coil. In the ecig world, this falls under "advanced/experienced" user territory, because if you fuck this up on mechanicals it can potentially be a bad problem. Batteries venting, etc. Even if you do it by accident, you can end up with thermal runaway. Due to the nature of 18650s, thermal runaway becomes a little more serious. I watched mechanical ecigs become popular (because I was vaping since the days of 10 different atomizer threadings and using blue aquarium foam/tea bags for wicking) and I got to watch a decent amount of "close calls" or bad stories from people that honestly had no business playing around with mechanicals. You get a lot of potential out of using mechanicals, but part of that potential is the dangers as well. Fake batteries, batteries with 10 amp draws when you need 20, etc.
I have nothing to add to the rest of the thread honestly, other than yeah good for RBT for being picky about this. There's a very solid chance you guys will be fine, but 18650s need their little disclaimer. This actually extends to other stuff like RC's that are powered by lithium packs as well. It's just the nature of the batteries. Since this is a DIY "build it yourself" type deal, it's always best to make sure everybody fully understands the situation.
I don't really blame RBT for being picky about who gets to play with these things. The coils are subohm coils which in itself isn't exactly an issue, but it becomes an "issue" when it's an unregulated device. It works on the same principal that mechanical ecigs work, there are no electronics to dictate power draw from the batteries, so it dumps whatever voltage the batteries are on directly to the coil. In the ecig world, this falls under "advanced/experienced" user territory, because if you fuck this up on mechanicals it can potentially be a bad problem. Batteries venting, etc. Even if you do it by accident, you can end up with thermal runaway. Due to the nature of 18650s, thermal runaway becomes a little more serious. I watched mechanical ecigs become popular (because I was vaping since the days of 10 different atomizer threadings and using blue aquarium foam/tea bags for wicking) and I got to watch a decent amount of "close calls" or bad stories from people that honestly had no business playing around with mechanicals. You get a lot of potential out of using mechanicals, but part of that potential is the dangers as well. Fake batteries, batteries with 10 amp draws when you need 20, etc.
I have nothing to add to the rest of the thread honestly, other than yeah good for RBT for being picky about this. There's a very solid chance you guys will be fine, but 18650s need their little disclaimer. This actually extends to other stuff like RC's that are powered by lithium packs as well. It's just the nature of the batteries. Since this is a DIY "build it yourself" type deal, it's always best to make sure everybody fully understands the situation.
P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
It's all good , pakalolo's last post answers my questions. Anyone can use it, at their own risk of course.
I wouldnt want myself or anyone coming up with a similar design to be perceived as they stole or copied a heater coil shape that is not proven or protected. It happens to some of the best and most respected builders on this forum. Someone else in this thread had asked a similar question on the topic too, sorry for the inconvenience in seeking an answer. I won't question it further. Thank you
After consulting @RastaBuddhaTao and discussing this with the other mods, I've changed the thread title in hopes that it will alleviate some of the confusion. I advise people to go back and re-read RBT's posts and also watch his videos. Everything is laid out and explained. In case it isn't clear, RBT is using the MIT Open Source license, which is one of the most permissive.
@Stu @pakalolo you have my word that I will not send trolls to other threads to cause trouble. Real men fight there own battles. Lesser men send trolls.
I am pleased to announce that @KeroZen has agreed to be one of the RBT Open Source Master Builders.
@KeroZen work on the Z-Team ensured material and battery safety was carefully considered. His understanding of the power electronics will allow him to create designs that will be safe, reliable, and effective. I have no doubt he will advance the HSA tech. I am excited to have such an experienced builder working on the RBT HSA heate tech.
Builders please post your relevant skills / experience and a description of what you plan to design by 2/2 to be comsidered to receive a @RastaBuddhaTao Builders kit.
I am pleased to announce that @KeroZen has agreed to be one of the RBT Open Source Master Builders.
@KeroZen work on the Z-Team ensured material and battery safety was carefully considered. His understanding of the power electronics will allow him to create designs that will be safe, reliable, and effective. I have no doubt he will advance the HSA tech. I am excited to have such an experienced builder working on the RBT HSA heate tech.
Builders please post your relevant skills / experience and a description of what you plan to design by 2/2 to be comsidered to receive a @RastaBuddhaTao Builders kit.
P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
What does this imply ? When a searched is performed in the patent database using your 2015 provisional patent number , there are no hits.. no one here is a lesser man for seeking an answer on this. dodge it all you want but no need to suggest some on fc are trolls or lesser men for wanting to know something..
Peace
Andreaerdna
If God is the answer, then the question is wrong
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Open source means free to the world so @P.A.M. your question is mute. You have gone from wanting to participate to attacking the @RastaBuddhaTao brand. Not sure why the change of heart but I have a pretty good idea. If you no longer want to participate here then I believe you have your own thread. So, please, either stay and be positive or go. Either way I am eager to see what you come up with as touch seem to have the skills and the passion to make it happen.
So let's get on with seeing what the world will do with the RBT tech and stop wasting time being counter productive to the effort. The Mods have spoken so... on with the show.
Starting to put together the kits. Kits will have both high and low resistive heater material. This will allow for designs of different surface areas / aspect ratios to be tailored to the application / voltage. Depending on the geometry of the design for a given space, the resistance has to be tuned to get optimum vapor. With that said, you might need to one of even higher resistance value which can be purchased from the link on the post above. McMaster Carr is a vape builders go-to store for nearly everything you need.
Production RBT heaters are hemmed and resistance welded to form a simple and cost effective bus bar. This ensures that the current flows through the entire heater surface. This prevents hot spots that can burn holes in the heater at the point of contact. @pakalolo mentioned that the Flash Vape uses a physical bus bar that could be used to connect the heater. It is not recommended that you solder connections as they can melt / outgas in extreme use situations. With sub ohm, small changes in resistance is a large percentage of the total. Meaning, the smallest change in contact resistance will have a large impact. I believe @kero has done some work with 510 vapes in temperature control and has seen this effect. Please prove all Heater designs with with rigousous bench testing and ensure solid connections prior to energizing the circuit.
Safety, Safety, Safety
So let's get on with seeing what the world will do with the RBT tech and stop wasting time being counter productive to the effort. The Mods have spoken so... on with the show.
Starting to put together the kits. Kits will have both high and low resistive heater material. This will allow for designs of different surface areas / aspect ratios to be tailored to the application / voltage. Depending on the geometry of the design for a given space, the resistance has to be tuned to get optimum vapor. With that said, you might need to one of even higher resistance value which can be purchased from the link on the post above. McMaster Carr is a vape builders go-to store for nearly everything you need.
Production RBT heaters are hemmed and resistance welded to form a simple and cost effective bus bar. This ensures that the current flows through the entire heater surface. This prevents hot spots that can burn holes in the heater at the point of contact. @pakalolo mentioned that the Flash Vape uses a physical bus bar that could be used to connect the heater. It is not recommended that you solder connections as they can melt / outgas in extreme use situations. With sub ohm, small changes in resistance is a large percentage of the total. Meaning, the smallest change in contact resistance will have a large impact. I believe @kero has done some work with 510 vapes in temperature control and has seen this effect. Please prove all Heater designs with with rigousous bench testing and ensure solid connections prior to energizing the circuit.
Safety, Safety, Safety
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Diggy Smalls
Notorious
Wow this is a different kind of project now. Very interesting. So we going to be getting several different vape designs inspired by rbt heater tech and assisted by rbt? That's pretty cool.
I'm not a builder myself, so my interest in this is to see what new and unique directions the great minds here can come up with together.
I'm not a builder myself, so my interest in this is to see what new and unique directions the great minds here can come up with together.
Implying that other members are trolls is against the rules and will not be allowed. FC is not a battleground, it is a place for like-minded souls to share ideas in friendly environment. If you think someone is breaking forum rules, please report it and leave it to the staff to deal with.
Thank you.
Interesting indeed.
I'd love to play around with some of the heater parts, but I cannot commit to any resulting builds and testing in any specific time frame. I've also got zero experience with these kind of vapes, so I'd have less to contribute there. I don't have any specific design in mind that I can submit, and am in no hurry to start a mouser parts frenzy cause why would I just buy a DNA200? OK fine I've already got some relevant parts to my open mouser order cause who doesn't need a 60W buck in their parts bin anyway?
I don't live near USA, and don't have a mcMaster a next-day away.. I haven't got that sherline workshop that I plan on getting sometime yet (fine, even their simplest mill would do yes plz) either. I do however have three great young boys (9m, 3.5, 6) and their wonderful mama keeping me busy 
And I am part of a company doing some really cool things even though I'm not exactly doing a 'me' job. I'm busy getting as much of my engineering fix as I can from my little project
, and that about leaves me with a few years too little time ;/ but I'm in no hurry, so all good.. I'll eventually get that sherline, yes..
So.. I can't really be part of any core or whatnot team here right now as much as I'd love to. I will however keep up with this thread as much as I can, and look forward to as much electronics related stuff I can contribute to, specially discussing with @KeroZen as I've always learnt a lot from his posts so I'm glad he's on this team , but anyone wanting to discuss electronics as the sub-ohm stuff is fascinating and I'm already enjoying learning a lot about it. Sounds like I need to get myself a box mod... or better yet, I will gladly buy any box of random relevant parts that could get me fiddling faster, and will probably open a mcmaster cart sometimes cause logistic opportunities come and go for me (as much as I'd love to, I cant keep paying international delivery for every component order I wish to make, so I just take my time..) any I'm sure I'd find what to buy there so.. time for me to get off this couch and do some more rZToaster QA 
QA is important. I find it very relaxing.
I'd love to play around with some of the heater parts, but I cannot commit to any resulting builds and testing in any specific time frame. I've also got zero experience with these kind of vapes, so I'd have less to contribute there. I don't have any specific design in mind that I can submit, and am in no hurry to start a mouser parts frenzy cause why would I just buy a DNA200? OK fine I've already got some relevant parts to my open mouser order cause who doesn't need a 60W buck in their parts bin anyway?
I don't live near USA, and don't have a mcMaster a next-day away.. I haven't got that sherline workshop that I plan on getting sometime yet (fine, even their simplest mill would do yes plz) either. I do however have three great young boys (9m, 3.5, 6) and their wonderful mama keeping me busy And I am part of a company doing some really cool things even though I'm not exactly doing a 'me' job. I'm busy getting as much of my engineering fix as I can from my little project, and that about leaves me with a few years too little time ;/ but I'm in no hurry, so all good.. I'll eventually get that sherline, yes.. So.. I can't really be part of any core or whatnot team here right now as much as I'd love to. I will however keep up with this thread as much as I can, and look forward to as much electronics related stuff I can contribute to, specially discussing with @KeroZen as I've always learnt a lot from his posts so I'm glad he's on this team
, but anyone wanting to discuss electronics as the sub-ohm stuff is fascinating and I'm already enjoying learning a lot about it. Sounds like I need to get myself a box mod... or better yet, I will gladly buy any box of random relevant parts that could get me fiddling faster, and will probably open a mcmaster cart sometimes cause logistic opportunities come and go for me (as much as I'd love to, I cant keep paying international delivery for every component order I wish to make, so I just take my time..) any I'm sure I'd find what to buy there so.. time for me to get off this couch and do some more rZToaster QA QA is important. I find it very relaxing.
Implying that other members are trolls is against the rules and will not be allowed. FC is not a battleground, it is a place for like-minded souls to share ideas in friendly environment. If you think someone is breaking forum rules, please report it and leave it to the staff to deal with.
Thank you.
Roger that @Stu. Thus my post about being positive here. I'm here to make Vapor not war
Herb Vapenstien's lesson on Ohm's law as it pertains to 18650's
We hope to explore exotics later in the first half the year and potentially venture into burls and drift wood at the end of the year.
That one there was made custom for Ed's TNT out of his private stock. The matching Mi2 is on the IG.
We hope to explore exotics later in the first half the year and potentially venture into burls and drift wood at the end of the year.
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