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VapCap Induction Heater for Desktop and in Car Use

Dustydurban

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't a cpc(clicks per charge) be a better indicator for the batteries
to determine the "most useful" battery
Heat up time not so much:hmm:
The batteries I have used seem to take 5 to 8 seconds to heat to click
I seem to want as many cpc I can get
Wondering aloud:)
 

Pipes

Addicted DIY Enthusiast
Accessory Maker
As mentioned before by @KeroZen, there is no real free ride with batteries. Always a trade off.
Generally, high mAhs means it met for low power devices. They have a higher internal resistance (lower C value) which means more voltage sage if used for devices requiring more amperage. The extra missing voltage is being taken by the internal resistance which also means it will run hotter. Running hotter means less overall life.

Lower mAhs higher amps, means it is designed for higher power devices. They have a lower internal resistance (higher C value) which means less voltage sage even when more power is required. Less resistance to steal the voltage, which means less heat build up inside the battery. Running cooler means longer overall life.

How one can test this, is to do a battery check while heating the VC. Higher capacity cells will give a more noticeable drop in level.

So it's a real trade off here as the IHs kinda sits right where it's hard to pick one. Higher mAh cells will run longer but will also run somewhat slower to heat the cap. Enough to take away the mAhs gained?? Probably at some point. The heat from the battery getting hot is just a waste and over time will take some life away from it. However, because of our application here, a overly huge current rating is not so important. 20-30 Amp continuous discharge is good enough and the cells stay cool.

:science:
 

Hippie

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't a cpc(clicks per charge) be a better indicator for the batteries
to determine the "most useful" battery
Heat up time not so much:hmm:
The batteries I have used seem to take 5 to 8 seconds to heat to click
I seem to want as many cpc I can get
Wondering aloud:)

Yes and no as there are clicks from cold, continuity clicks, and duration after the click to add to the equation.

Like for example you can dip a tip maybe 10 times for a full extraction sometimes, dipping to 2 seconds after the click without letting the tip cool completely, or let the tip cool completely between dips and heat it to 5 seconds or so after the click for a full extraction in 2 or 3 cycles .... or you may have your own timing and dipping preferences combining both techniques or somewhere in between :)

I do a lot of 2 seconds after the click dipping and only get 2-3 days from HG2s
So I'm concluding that method is quite inefficient, judging by the length of time some people are getting between charges. Either that or my HG2s are fake :hmm::)
 

Dustydurban

Well-Known Member
I've tried to keep a record of my dip counting:rofl: but ya know!
I only get a 2+ day max if I only use the PS using LGhe2 and a little less with the excell LiMN
There can't be many of us battery PS SK users
How many days can you go on a charge? Everyone?

How many dips
 
Dustydurban,
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phattpiggie

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
@Dustydurban I must be one of the only stoners to be able to keep my shit together enough to do this.
I first did it with my INH05 when I was disproving ridiculously claimed battery run times.

We all have differing vaping styles and daily consumption rates so instead of looking at it as 'how many minutes vaping' or 'how many bowls to a charge' I have looked at it as 'how much weed can I vape' per mah.
I think the 05 was around 0.6g this was with a 3000mah battery, Skelly results put this to shame at just shy of 2g's to 2100mah.

Given the subject matter it's not the easiest thing to do so I always 'count' a few times and then take an average.
I've done tallies for 'click to click' and 'dip 'til done' with both 4th gen Ti and M tips.

Here's where I got to with my Skelly a while back.

Battery life testing, 2100mah VTC4, M tip. Counted how many days, bowls and weighed out the greenery as I went.

Full charge at the start of my tally was the morning of the 22nd and they finally gave up tonight, 26th.

I've done 35 bowls and I've got half a bowl left from 2g, the majority have been single click.
Maybe 5 have been click to click.

Last time I did this the weather had changed and ambient temps in my shed and outside were low so this will have made a difference in my final numbers.
This is a mix of bowls indoors, in the shed and outside whilst I was BBQ'ing in the evenings.
Other variables may have played a part but I went from 35 to 27 bowls.

I'm currently putting another device thru it's paces but will go back to the Skelly when I'm done.
 

Dustydurban

Well-Known Member
@phattpiggie
Sorry I fogot about your previous research
My napkin math suggest that I am in the same 35 - 27 area
Alas, Seems there are so many variables
Just stating the obvious :Wish the batteries would last longer than they do:rockon::rockon::rockon:
Quest for encased"fire" continues :brow:
 

jerseydvd

Well-Known Member
@phattpiggie
Sorry I fogot about your previous research
My napkin math suggest that I am in the same 35 - 27 area
Alas, Seems there are so many variables
Just stating the obvious :Wish the batteries would last longer than they do:rockon::rockon::rockon:
Quest for encased"fire" continues :brow:
I have the VTC5a’s which are fantastic 2600mah 25amp continuous discharge. Fucking great batteries BUT, for the IH heater it does seem the VTC4 works just as well and is much cheaper. I’ll probably switch them out and use the 5a’s for my Tera alternates, and put VTC4’s in the Portside
 

Edge

New Member
Hi all, new to the forum so nice to meet you.

Just picked up a Vapcap and I'm super interested in building one of these induction heaters. I saw this one from Christof Smith which looked awesome and simple, so I'm going to pick up the parts/LiPo he recommended. I'll link them below:

Induction Heater:https://www.banggood.com/5V-12V-ZVS-Induction-Heating-Power-Supply-Module-With-Coil-p-1015637.html

Switch: https://www.banggood.com/2-Pin-OnOff-Waterproof-Rocker-Switch-and-Cover-For-Car-Dashboard-Dash-Boat-p-995659.html

Battery: https://www.banggood.com/ZOP-Power-11_1V-1500mAh-40C-3S-Lipo-Battery-XT60-Plug-p-1085894.html

Charger: https://www.banggood.com/New-B3-20W-Balance-Charger-2S-3S-Lipo-Battery-Charger-for-RC-Helicopter-Model-p-1022724.html




Does anyone know if there's a nicely sized box on Banggood that'll fit one of these nicely? Any material is fine as long as it'll look good, so wood/metal/dark plastic is ideal.


Also any advice on anchoring it down to the box would be wonderful, I'm a bit of a DIY noob. I've got a soldering iron but no drill, so gonna try keep it as simple as possible.


EDIT: Another quick thought, is it worth getting something to hold the vape in the coil so that it doesn't insert too far? Saw some of you just stick a piece of wood between the coils, is that safe?
 
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SmokeyTheBeard

Well-Known Member
Hi all, new to the forum so nice to meet you.

Just picked up a Vapcap and I'm super interested in building one of these induction heaters. I saw this one from Christof Smith which looked awesome and simple, so I'm going to pick up the parts/LiPo he recommended. I'll link them below:

Induction Heater:https://www.banggood.com/5V-12V-ZVS-Induction-Heating-Power-Supply-Module-With-Coil-p-1015637.html

Switch: https://www.banggood.com/2-Pin-OnOff-Waterproof-Rocker-Switch-and-Cover-For-Car-Dashboard-Dash-Boat-p-995659.html

Battery: https://www.banggood.com/ZOP-Power-11_1V-1500mAh-40C-3S-Lipo-Battery-XT60-Plug-p-1085894.html

Charger: https://www.banggood.com/New-B3-20W-Balance-Charger-2S-3S-Lipo-Battery-Charger-for-RC-Helicopter-Model-p-1022724.html

Does anyone know if there's a nicely sized box on Banggood that'll fit one of these nicely? Any material is fine as long as it'll look good, so wood/metal/dark plastic is ideal.

Also any advice on anchoring it down to the box would be wonderful, I'm a bit of a DIY noob. I've got a soldering iron but no drill, so gonna try keep it as simple as possible.

EDIT: Another quick thought, is it worth getting something to hold the vape in the coil so that it doesn't insert too far?

Does anyone have basic instructions on how to connect the various parts? It is a bit hard to see from the video.
 
SmokeyTheBeard,

Edge

New Member
Does anyone have basic instructions on how to connect the various parts? It is a bit hard to see from the video.

The coil seems to go into the two sockets of the induction heater, although I've seen a few people soldering their coils directly. I think the small red wires coming out of the other side are connected to one side of the switch, then the battery is connected to the other side. Not sure what the connector hanging off the side is, probably used for charging the LiPo?

Could be wrong because I have no idea what I'm doing, but that makes sense in my head.
 
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Edge,
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Edge

New Member
Hi @Dustydurban, thanks for the welcome!

Quick follow-up question to my last post for anyone who can advise me. I don't have any wire around except a big roll of 16-gauge speaker wire. I don't imagine that'd be an issue with a 12v LiPo battery, but better to ask. Any advice?
 
Edge,

Dustydurban

Well-Known Member
Not trying to:horse:
after considering these graphs:http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=485&akku2=523&akku3=507&akku4=490&akku5=0&akku6=0
would it be safe to assume, that essentally the preformance of these units are the same for
our application. and upon using this assumption: that anything you stuff into the belly of your beast
is going to preform equally within reason ( I know many variabilitys but I'm going to assume you know what I mean):cheers:
Thanks

edit : That no one battery is (going to to be all that better than any other for the PS or SK):peace:
 
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Dustydurban,

rz

Well-Known Member
@Edge those components look like they will work, though it's about as bare minimum as you could get for a battery powered IH.

My biggest issue is the switch along with it's lack of DC current specification, specially since this is the ONLY control mechanism. That being said, specifications are for continuous or switched currents, which you could workaround (but there are rules to breaking rules).

The IH pulls about 4 Amps (depending on configuration and voltage) without ANY load in it. Once that VapCap tip goes in, it'll be pulling around 10A. Under normal usage, these are NOT continuous loads. At 10A, a vapcap only needs a few seconds to reach temperature. You would turn your unit on, and shortly after insert VC, heat, remove, and turn off. All good. The switch would only see the 0FF->4Amp current during switch, which should be fine, then 10A for a few seconds, back to 4, and a switch off to 0. My guess is that switch would probably handle this scenario just fine. However, you NEED to consider unintended scenarios - Switch bumped on in your bag? Continuous 4A heating up your (idle) induction heater - wouldn't last more than a few minutes. Switched on/off while VC inserted? It's seeing double the switch current (may not be an issue, but we don't have specs on those). etc. Depending on what they're made of, those switched could melt under the wrong conditions. VC left in while switched on? (if you're filling it with the same stuff I'm using:p) - dunno.

Either way, you're now switching a mechanical switch on and off multiple times while your mind is likely to think of other things ;)

I think @Pipes solution is great, and I highly recommend you investigate it further. The rocker switch is used as a main kill switch, but the majority of switching is actually done by a separate MOSFET. A small (normally open!) pushbutton switch controls the MOSFET well within the button's specifications (a few milliamps @ ~11v). Search this thread for MOSFET and I'm sure some links and relevant discussion will come up.

As for the battery - It will probably work. I'm not too familiar with those packs though - do they have any integrated overcorrect protection? Over discharge protection? Unless you are continuously monitoring pack voltage to avoid over-discharge, and feel your design can handle fault conditions like short circuits from blown IH transistors, foreign objects, etc, I'd be careful to use such an unprotected pack. The dimensions aren't very different than using 3x18650 + BMS(Battery management system - overcurrent, overcharge, and over-discharge protection and maybe even balancing) and the cost + charger isn't any cheaper either.

About the 16awg multi-core wire. The posted guideline states about 5A as the maximum current. My guess is that thats continuous. You could probably get away with using that wire, specially while testing. While testing, you'll use the device for a short burst, and feel around for anything that may be over-heating, and slowly increase use time. If the insulation gets too soft or warm, you'll need to upgrade it.

All in all - I think the parts you posted are OK for testing and playing around with, building a proof of concept, or whatever, but not for throwing in your backpack or mindless use (prone to happen). A few upgrades will significantly improve the design. I think @Pipes has put a lot of thought into the component selection with all above-mentioned considerations and has found a great combo. Have you read all his detailed posts about the process?

So, get the parts, play around, but be really careful and understand the limitations, and work on improving in the meantime. :science::rockon:

Not trying to:horse:
after considering these graphs:http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=485&akku2=523&akku3=507&akku4=490&akku5=0&akku6=0
would it be safe to assume, that essentally the preformance of these units are the same for
our application. and upon using this assumption: that anything you stuff into the belly of your beast
is going to preform equally within reason ( I know many variabilitys but I'm going to assume you know what I mean):cheers:
Thanks

edit : That no one battery is (going to to be all that better than any other for the PS or SK):peace:


More or less, yeah. I agree that all those batteries will function in the PS. Though I don't believe they will function equally, specially not while compared to all available 18650 batteries.

Even at 5A, you can see a 0.1v difference between some batteries there, which turns into 0.3v with three batteries, and 0.6v difference at 10A. This will lead to a slightly slower heating time (which, IMHO, is not actually bad, the slower heating. I think the slower heating improves performance as it gets the whole tip mass a bit hotter, which just works better). There's also the capacity difference, about 25% between them. While yes, there are many parameters, and the affect of most of them won't REALLY change how the device behaves, there ARE differences between the cells. My current line of thought is to find the batteries with maximum capacity while maintaining CDR at least slightly above the use case (No real need for a 30A CDR cell here, and we aren't even continuously discharging - we're pulse discharging at currents below CDR, so well within spec). From there the differences will probably be a bit smaller. But yeah, My IH works just as well with INR 25Rs as with VTC6s, mostly just not for as long.
 
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Edge

New Member
@Edge
All in all - I think the parts you posted are OK for testing and playing around with, building a proof of concept, or whatever, but not for throwing in your backpack or mindless use (prone to happen). A few upgrades will significantly improve the design. I think @Pipes has put a lot of thought into the component selection with all above-mentioned considerations and has found a great combo. Have you read all his detailed posts about the process?

So, get the parts, play around, but be really careful and understand the limitations, and work on improving in the meantime. :science::rockon:

Thank you so much for such a detailed response. I'll definitely be using it for more of a proof of concept rather than a final product, and you've given me lots to look out for and think about. Appreciate it!
 

jds

Well-Known Member
I've been using my Portside for a few days - Amazing device. Really changes how enjoyable Vapcaps are when sitting at home or in the backyard. I doubt I'll bring it around with me outside, but it is really nice not to have to use a torch when sitting around. I've had great results with my Omnivap, and one or two hits gets me at exactly the same place my torch did, but certainly makes the whole experience that much more enjoyable.

I do have one question: I've used it with one of my M's a bit, and I found it a bit underwhelming. The cap clicks but there is not much vapor production and it takes me at least 6-7 rounds before the herb starts even looking browned a bit. Would it be bad to go beyond the click? How many seconds beyond should I keep it in the coil?
 

phattpiggie

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
@tragique I keep the heat on for 3-5 seconds after the click with my M tip on the first cycle.
If you find 3 isn't enough then apply a second more heat and try it again.
Err on the side of caution until you're comfortable with this.
Better to be underwhelmed and build up to it than over cook it and end up getting the Qtips and Iso out.
 

buckhakeesah

Well-Known Member
Takes about 5 seconds for me after the click with my M and im standing outside in the frozen tundra. But after that, i just deduct a second every round after.

Has anyone experienced the red LED staying on after the VC is removed? Mine has been staying lit after some sessions. Happens intermittently. I have to manually hit the kill switch sometimes to get it to turn off. Unsure if power is still being applied to run the heater when this happens. Thoughts anyone?
 
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