Arizer Solo II

sickmanfraud · May 10, 2017

biohacker said:
Unless I misconstrued and you are stating inserting the stem after heatup, I don't think so. That 30 sec initial heatsoak is conduction, and if you leave it in for another 30s you're just getting more heatsoaked conduction.

Give it a shot with your Air, heat it up to max temp, and THEN insert your stem and draw, you won't get much if any meaningful vapour.

I use the Solo in "convection" mode. I understand that @OF has stated the Solo is only conduction.

This is what I do: Turn on Solo and set for max temp. While Solo heating up fill bent stem with desired amount of medicine. Once the Solo is at temp 7 I insert my stem (hamster style, upside down) I immediately take a long slow draw and usually see meaningful vapor from first pull. I remove the stem between hits. Hits 2 and up have massive clouds, but the stem never heat soaks.

This method works on the Air and I see no reason this will not work with a Solo II. If using a Solo II the stem should be filled before turning the unit on.

FYI, I use this method with my Extreme Q also. The elbow packed whip is only in contact with the cyclone bowl when drawing.

Smokey McVape · May 10, 2017

namasteIII said:
Hmm, y'all think with a high temp and a GONG I could kill a bowl in a few hits and a few minuets? Especially with this new more powerful heater I think I could right?

Easy option - pack half a bowl lightly - dont press it down hard - set Solo to max and you should get 3 tasty hits and be done in 3 minutes (including heat up - much faster on Solo2)

biohacker · May 10, 2017

sickmanfraud said:
Once the Solo is at temp 7 I insert my stem (hamster style, upside down) I immediately take a long slow draw and usually see meaningful vapor from first pull

I would LOVE to see a video of this. :tup:

I'm not doubting it, because i've explained "convection mode" ad nauseum in the Solo thread, and @OF quickly set me straight.

Perhaps one of our newly initiated Solo 2 owners could do so as well. However, just because you could get a tasty invisible or visible small hit, still doesn't mean it's in "convection mode", but rather quickly heating your biomass with some radiant heat (from conduction). Otherwise, it's very possible that some of your biomass is in contact, or extremely close contact with the bottom plate.

Regardless, as @OF has already indicated... it doesn't matter, and all a matter of personal experience and you will believe what you want to anyway.

My Solo 2 should be out for delivery today or latest tomorrow! It's going be nice to look at and admire indeed. :nod:

Andreaerdna · May 10, 2017

@sickmanfraud nice experience, there are some others experiences indicating convection, obviously not "on demand convection" but still clearly convection.

This is the one I like the most, (hard to contest IMO)

Stu said:
I had the same fundamental understanding of the Solo as @OF at one time. Then I tested that theory with an experiment that is easily repeatable and the results changed my mind. When evidence suggests that my assumption was incorrect, I don't ignore that evidence in order to maintain my (false) assumption. I accept what the evidence provided and change my opinion. But hey, that's just me.

What is funny is that the other way heat flows from heater to bowl is radiation or free convective stream of hot air as my understanding is heater and bowl aren't in touch, so there is no conduction at all (transferring heat from heater to bowl).

Conduction/radiation preheats glass (from bowl) in order to not loose convective heat when hitting, part of the brilliant design of arizer

That being repeated it would be nice to see an experience with temp probe proving (if this is possible) conduction theory

Edit: click on tested hyperlink inside Stu quote to see experiment

biohacker · May 10, 2017

kellya86 said:
Convection mode?
What is this. Im about to buy my first solo on black Friday. There seems to be some confusion as to whether the solo is conduction or convection. So can someone answer this question for me.

In the solo, does the herb touch a heat source or not.?

biohacker said:
The Solo is a convection AND conduction vaporizer, like most vapes out there. My term "convection mode" refers to using the Solo on max heat (I even love a nice long heatsoak without herb, just to get it to equilibrium) and then placing it on your stem, taking a draw, and removing the Solo from the stem. This prevents conduction from taking over, and you can keep going like this until it is spent, and the resulting ABV will be noticeably lighter in colour, much like convection vapes (lighter ABV in general). Or, leave the Solo attached, and go for the conduction aspect to get every last bit of goodness (I like to do this in the evenings as I find it sedating).

The herb can touch the heat source if you let it...all depends on how much you pack, if it's too full it will get darker brown, but i've never seen scorching or charring ever like I did with my previous e-Nano. If you let it just sit on it, it will go black and stink, but never combust. I've never ever EVER combusted in any Solo i've ever owned.

Derrrpp said:
As far as I can tell, by any logic the Solo should operate using conduction, not convection. But there is evidence that there may be some convection aspects to it after all.

There seems to be two different viewpoints on this subject: there's the group that believes the Solo is purely conduction, and there's the group that think it's some combination of both. Personally, I lean toward the idea that the Solo is conduction only.

But what do I know?

In the end it doesn't really matter, what matters is that the Solo is a workhorse of a vape! It just performs, period.

What else does anyone need, really?

biohacker said:
If it was conduction only (which it is not), it would not work in convection mode. There is no question that it is a combo, just like most other vapes (even VRIPTECH says their vaporization system is "mostly" convection). I think it's a moot point to discuss it any further, even if it's "mostly" conduction.

OF said:
While I too think Solo is an outstanding performer I don't think it is because you "use it in convection mode much of the time" since it's a Conduction vape. Not Convection. Or Radiation. Only those three are possible routes for moving heat. Not as those terms are used in Thermodynamics normally (the only definition that counts when you're talking heat flow).

To be convection the air has to be heated higher going in than it comes out. That is it gives up heat to the load, not drawing heat from it. The convection going on is actually convection COOLING of the load, not heating it. Cold air coming in is using up heat (energy) getting heated up. Volcano, HA, T1/Cera, and ESV are all examples of convection, each has glowing metal or other hotter than vaping surfaces that 'superheat' the air going in. They are characterized by denser vapor with harder hitting, not larger volume but thinner like we see with Solo.

Some vapes use hot air in the load to spread heat faster, but Thermodynamics is based on heat flow at a system level. 'How does the heat (ability to make stuff hotter, not temperature) get into the system' is the question at hand. In Solo it comes in over time by conduction (there is a 'recovery' between hits), convection the heat comes in instantly with the draw (no recovery, minimum lag).

A 'rose by any other name', Solo still makes the vapor when the chips are down.....by conduction if the name matters.

biohacker said:
Thanks @OF for the explanation...I always value your insightful posts. However, I just googled "Arizer Solo Convection" and it appears that many people including myself disagree with it being a Conduction vape only.

http://torontovaporizer.ca/blog/top-3-hybrid-vaporizers/

OF said:
You're welcome. Lots of folks believe in ghosts as well, but science doesn't share that opinion. Or 'Mister Right' for that matter? Thermodynamics is a real science, it defines the 3 terms and describes how they work. Opinions to the contrary might be interesting, but I think without merit unless someone can demonstrate how this 'rule breaker' does so?

What sales might say to increase the appeal of their product, even if they believe it to be true, is not really evidence of much past an interest in more sales. It doesn't change the facts or science behind them. The same guys are just as likely to give other unrealistic performance claims (like battery life). It's their job.......

For instance, "Heating is a natural process of moving energy to or from a system other than by work or the transfer of matter. The heat passes only from a hotter to a colder system". Heating the load is work being done as defined by Physics. Energy flow. This says the air has to be hotter than the load to transfer heat (do work), we know that's not happening here. Air drawn in is cooler? "The heat passes only from hotter to colder". Can't be Convection or Radiation, it has to be Conduction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

biohacker said:
I think i'm going to take a nice hit from my Solo, and re-read your posts In the end, it's about enjoying the vapour output from the Solo! I guess I now prefer conduction vaporizers? This is why the vapour is so much smoother on my airways?

OF said:
Who knows, or cares? If it fits you and your needs it's right no matter the name. The contrary is also true, no matter what it's called if it doesn't cut the mustard.......

There is nothing magic about Convection. Consider Box Vapes are Convection? They're certainly not held in universal high esteem (bad pun, but it's a small Forum......).

I think you're right, the enjoyment is the key (MMJ aside). The vapor matters, how it's made not so much. Of academic interest for the most part? How a vape uses (controls) heat and what it's made of are what counts I think. You can make great vapor by Conduction, Convection or Radiation since they are only tools, not components, in the vapor making process.

biohacker said:
I just don't understand how I can put the Solo on a cold stem (gong) and start getting vapour? There is no way the glass can heat up so fast. I guess there would have to be warm air going through the herb, no? My impression of a conduction vape was more along the lines of a PAX.

I will make a video soon!

biohacker · May 10, 2017

OF said:
Yes, the air is warm. But no, it doesn't make vapor. Warm air won't make vapor, at least not at useful rates. It has to be hot to make vapor, like almost 400F hot.

Solo is conduction. To be convection the air would have to enter the load hotter than it leaves, not the other way around.

Hashtag46&2 said:
Regarding the Conduction/ Convection topic, a newbie Vaporist (myself) is curious about....

"Convection Mode"

If one were using the PV Single Bore Turbo GonG ... Could this be a Hybrid of all three of the aforementioned methods of heat transfer?...

Conduction being the dominant source and Convective and Radiant properties following closely??

Andreaerdna said:
Loving conduction/radiation discussion because even peaple with knowledge of thermodynamics make big confusion between radiation and conduction.

As already reported conduction happens only within a body (something sharing atomic strong bond) like a metallic needle transferring heat from the tip heated to the other end, that is conduction, or the vapman crucible transferring heat from where you apply flame to the whole crucible, that is heat conduction.

From a heated bowl to the cold load there is no conduction AT ALL, that is science not opinion, if there is no heated air passing by it is radiation only (MFLB)

So in solo: there is radiation from the bowl to the load plus some convection due to air passing between glass and hot bowl and tranferring heat by that way.

Sorry for digression but it is disturbing to read peaple spreading confusion.

THERE IS NO CONDUCTION VAPORIZER AT ALL (if you refer to how the load receive heat) only radiation/convection in differents proportion.
Deal with it, or prove me wrong.

Best to you

Ps
And BTW there is a very calm thread about this matter

1DMF said:
I'm with you @Quetzalcoatl, I know metal 'conducts' heat (and electricity), but does conduction require atomic bonds, way over my head!

Is the glass stem chamber getting heated by conduction from touching a metal oven, or radiation emanating from the oven? And thus conduct the heat to the herb from physical contact with glass or again is it radiation through entropy?

If I touch a hot object, do I get burned from radiation or conduction (or both?)

Quetzalcoatl said:
I believe the heat transfer is the heater at the bottom to the metal "cup" which then transfers to the glass. The hot glass touches the material, hence conduction. I still think the hot air is there, an old stem I had broke at like 1.5 inches from the bowl end and I flame polished it and made it a turbo stem. Hitting it dry I could feel heat going through, and setting a "tophat" style screen against the rim placed the flowers further down than normal and not touching anything but the screen, and I stillgot some vapor. I wonder how much of the conduction happens when the material is suspended in the stem and not in contact with the glass.

1DMF said:
s definitely some radiation involved, you can't avoid it being so close to a heat source!

According to Wiki, a saucepan sitting on an oven heats up via conduction and as you can have a metal ring (electric) hob and a glass pan which are not bodies of the same material bonded atomically in any way.

I surmise that simple heat transfer between two bodies in contact with each other is conduction.

Therefore I believe the Solo uses all three heat transfer mechanisms to work. Mainly radiation / conduction, with a bit of convection as you draw

OF said:
No. If you want a quick lesson in conduction, touch a hot iron.....if you can find one these days. Or maybe a hot fry pan? How did you think food in that pan cooks? When I went to school it was by conduction, I assume it still is? We put oil in that pan to aid the conduction transfer, using Wok technology? MFLB is a great example. For while HEATING UP radiation plays a role, when it comes to making vapor only conduction counts. Only herb touching the load gets hot enough?

Nope, no Radiation going on in Solo. At least not at a useful level. Look it up, Radiation only works with a very large temperature difference (called 'Delta' by the Science Guys). As that Delta drops, so does Radiation transfer since 'it goes both ways', that is the two bodies both radiate and absorb energy, equilibrium is when energy out balances energy in.....temperature change stops then. Notice the bathroom heater or campfire only works because stuff is fairly near and much hotter? The formula invloves correction factors for 'emissivity' ('black absorbs heat better than white') for each body, the Delta (in degrees C for SI units) and the square of the distance between (they need to be close to couple well unless there's a huge Delta like between us and the Sun. No Delta (like the cup and stem are the same basic temperature, no chance for IR transfer.

RUDE BOY · May 10, 2017

sickmanfraud said:
I use the Solo in "convection" mode. I understand that @OF has stated the Solo is only conduction.

This is what I do: Turn on Solo and set for max temp. While Solo heating up fill bent stem with desired amount of medicine. Once the Solo is at temp 7 I insert my stem (hamster style, upside down) I immediately take a long slow draw and usually see meaningful vapor from first pull. I remove the stem between hits. Hits 2 and up have massive clouds, but the stem never heat soaks.

This method works on the Air and I see no reason this will not work with a Solo II. If using a Solo II the stem should be filled before turning the unit on.

FYI, I use this method with my Extreme Q also. The elbow packed whip is only in contact with the cyclone bowl when drawing.

I also use the solo this way. ...Well everything but the "hamster style" thing and get killer amounts of vapor output from the second hit til the last.

OF · May 10, 2017

RUDE BOY said:
get killer amounts of vapor output from the second hit til the last.

Yep, although I'm not sure personally about the count. I think it might be the 3rd or 4th hit before it peaks and starts to degrade for me? Importantly it's not 'from the start' like in say ESV. Some level of 'heat soak' is going on?

Other (obviously conduction) vapes, like a current one I'm playing with, the DC Gen 2 Herb Cart, show this as well. We were just discussing this very point a while back in that thread. Best hits are a few into the session, not 'from the start'. A conduction (not convection) trait?

OF

AJS · May 10, 2017

Ugh I'm so excited for this I can hardly wait.
6 more days!! Also my tracking info said signature may be required ... hope not!!

Should be a pretty easy wait I hope.. tomorrow last day of work for the week, have a female friend staying with me for the weekend ... then 3 more days of work and it'll be here! Sheesh. Cmonnnnn.

So excited to have the GonG comin too ... never used one with the air before! Gunna get some super clouds ... only really use water with full convection vapes. Should be interesting. ... also have the ddave micro bubbler to use too ... it'll attach directly to it!

biohacker · May 10, 2017

AJS said:
Also my tracking info said signature may be required ... hope not!!

It won't be, it's fucked here with Canada Post....can't get signature confirmation when shipping to the U.S. Pisses me off in so many ways, because PayPal requires it for "protection" if the value is over $850 I think. I guess that's what couriers are for, but then there are astronomical "brokerage fees".

AJS said:
have a female friend staying with me for the weekend

GIGGITY!!! :nod:

LOVE female "friends"! :tup:

TDB · May 10, 2017

AJS said:
Ugh I'm so excited for this I can hardly wait.
6 more days!! Also my tracking info said signature may be required ... hope not!!

The USPS required signature for the delivery to me and my friends; however, we all ordered from Arizer. I missed the first delivery attempt :cry:

so I visited the USPS website and requested them to hold onto the delivery for office pickup, which happened to be as soon as they opened the next morning!! :lol:

AJS · May 10, 2017

biohacker said:
GIGGITY!!! LOVE female "friends"!

____
@biohacker
@TDB
Who do I believe!!

biohacker · May 10, 2017

It could be because of the pickup at their office? I've shipped dozens of items from Canada (over 200 on eBay alone) and never ever was able to ask for a signature upon delivery. Perhaps it's different for businesses? That's my best guess anyway, as I don't have a business account.

biohacker · May 11, 2017

Wow I take the day off of FC, and come back with no Solo 2 thread updated?! Over 24hrs later!

Might as well double post then with a report of the delivery of my brand new Solo 2 from AgraCan! POW!

I can't actually use it with cannabis, but do plan on trying the aromatherapy bowl for whatever it's worth!

First impressions!

Wow, nice work Arizer!!!! :tup:

This is definitely a step up on first appearance! The packaging is awesome! Very Apple like in quality, and they didn't skimp out here for certain.

The Solo 2 is awesome in size and form factor! Huge difference here and it's actually much more portable and I can palm it very easily. The power cord for the charger is pretty long....more so than the OG Solo i'm pretty sure. Nice touch!

It took a while to charge up, so it was stored/shipped with proper battery management which isn't surprising, but ala @OF typical initial charge up recommendations i'm giving it a full 5 hours for the first zolt.

The stems and extras I received are laser cut holes, but much bigger than what I have seen in the past with the Air, pretty much similar size to the "big" holes that were glass blown in the past, so that was nice to see!

The build quality of the 2 is really awesome, but I have to admit I was disappointed to see surface scratches (not deep more smudges that won't come off) on the display, but you can only see them up close and I really don't care that much. Just something that they could improve upon.

AgraCan's tiny little 4 piece grinder is the tits! Super small holes so really decent for a finer grind, although I haven't used it yet. I'm sure it will be a keeper since it's pretty small and cute.

Overall first impression without using it is :rockon:

I'm quite certain just based on the surface that it will be a keeper! Nice included case and stem containers to boot too!

Oh, and the serial number is a sticker on the bottom of the solo. I'll be sure to be careful with cleaning! lol

Thanks Arizer! And thanks @agracan.com ! Everything arrived flawless! Appreciate the extras and such a wicked 4/20 deal! You're the best! :tup:

BigJr48 · May 11, 2017

biohacker said:
Wow I take the day off of FC, and come back with no Solo 2 thread updated?! Over 24hrs later!

Might as well double post then with a report of the delivery of my brand new Solo 2 from AgraCan! POW!

I can't actually use it with cannabis, but do plan on trying the aromatherapy bowl for whatever it's worth!

First impressions!

Wow, nice work Arizer!!!! This is definitely a step up on first appearance! The packaging is awesome! Very Apple like in quality, and they didn't skimp out here for certain.

The Solo 2 is awesome in size and form factor! Huge difference here and it's actually much more portable and I can palm it very easily. The power cord for the charger is pretty long....more so than the OG Solo i'm pretty sure. Nice touch!

It took a while to charge up, so it was stored/shipped with proper battery management which isn't surprising, but ala @OF typical initial charge up recommendations i'm giving it a full 5 hours for the first zolt.

The stems and extras I received are laser cut holes, but much bigger than what I have seen in the past with the Air, pretty much similar size to the "big" holes that were glass blown in the past, so that was nice to see!

The build quality of the 2 is really awesome, but I have to admit I was disappointed to see surface scratches (not deep more smudges that won't come off) on the display, but you can only see them up close and I really don't care that much. Just something that they could improve upon.

AgraCan's tiny little 4 piece grinder is the tits! Super small holes so really decent for a finer grind, although I haven't used it yet. I'm sure it will be a keeper since it's pretty small and cute.

Overall first impression without using it is I'm quite certain just based on the surface that it will be a keeper! Nice included case and stem containers to boot too!

Oh, and the serial number is a sticker on the bottom of the solo. I'll be sure to be careful with cleaning! lol

Thanks Arizer! And thanks @agracan.com ! Everything arrived flawless! Appreciate the extras and such a wicked 4/20 deal! You're the best!

Congrats!!! My order was being processed in Toronto this morning, hopefully it'll arrive by next week....

vpr85 · May 11, 2017

biohacker said:
The build quality of the 2 is really awesome, but I have to admit I was disappointed to see surface scratches (not deep more smudges that won't come off) on the display, but you can only see them up close and I really don't care that much. Just something that they could improve upon.

My buddy just got his and said the same thing ... until he realize there was some packaging plastic on the screen that comes off

TDB · May 11, 2017

The build quality of the 2 is really awesome, but I have to admit I was disappointed to see surface scratches (not deep more smudges that won't come off) on the display, but you can only see them up close and I really don't care that much.

Thanks to @OF I was able to "repair" this issue on the Air a few years ago so I was prepared to do the same thing when I received my Solo II. :clap:

I didn't take a pic while I "repaired" my Solo II so here's an old pic from my Arizer photo album.

biohacker · May 11, 2017

POW! Yes! I actually thought about this and tried to peel it off but when I couldn't "grip" it with my fingernail I figured this wasn't the case. Thanks to you guys I tried it again, from the bottom this time and voila! Squeeky clean display! I retract my original statement! Now I have NO negatives to pick on! lol

I think they should have left a tiny little corner to grip it though... thanks for making my night guys!!!

lemmeadem · May 11, 2017

Y'all mus' be crazy.

Solo 2's out in the wild and only 29 pages? Lawd, I need sustenance.

EDIT: Fuckit. Bought a solo 2 and gong from @agracan.com just a second ago. Jack is a fucking force to be reckoned with in this industry and if he isn't posted up as an FC sponsor within the year I'll be awestruck.

To Jack: I've already said this but thank you sincerely. You've got my business and recommendation and I wish you every success in life, sir!

tonuzzi · May 12, 2017

I just found 2 bent stems from my old Solo, never used because they fit loose on the solo 1 but fit perfect on the solo 2...Nice!!

Custom Flower Hardware · May 12, 2017

tonuzzi said:
I just found 2 bent stems from my old Solo, never used because they fit loose on the solo 1 but fit perfect on the solo 2...Nice!!

Me too! I found 1 and it's my goto for dry runs now. Verrry comfy. :tup:

biohacker · May 12, 2017

So i've been playing around with my 2 and i'm very impressed so far. The heatup time is simply INSANE!!! Top temp in maybe less than 20-30s? I'll have to time it from 14c! I couldn't even believe it.

It smells like solder/metal so no different than any other new Solo/Air really, so after a maybe 5-10 minute heat up I tried inserting all my stems (purchased extra Air stems and gong), and I was expecting alot of resistance, but low and behold they ALL went in effortlessly! And they are nice and snug with what looks like a hybrid of Air/Solo "rings". Snug but easy to insert and remove.

So then I did an airflow check (without anything loaded in bowl) and WOW! Effortless! Very impressive!

Love the menu system and options, and love the form factor in my hand or pocket.... this thing is a little rocket!

Pretty sure the aromatherapy cup is useless....no holes in it, and it actually fits somewhat loose in comparison to the herb tubes.

So happy! Even though I have my cake but can't eat it too at the moment!

whatitdew · May 12, 2017

PlanetVape offered me a pretty damn good deal on the SoloII just like to give them a shout out for that. I had already ordered elsewhere tho since PV was still on pre-order status they said.
I just contacted them through email and mentioned FC. (Think it was on par with the agracan deal)

I think this is the first vape I've paid more to be an early adopter, usually never my style.
Now just waiting on slow Canada Post! Been a while since I ordered any vape stuff within Canada. Forgot how bad our domestic Mail can be haha.

@biohacker I don't know how you can buy a new vape when you can't even use it yet! Sounds like torture to me haha.

smokum · May 12, 2017

Has anyone who ordered from @PlanetVape had a shipping notice yet ?

biohacker · May 12, 2017

whatitdew said:
Forgot how bad our domestic Mail can be haha.

It depends on how cheap the shipper is, my AgraCan order arrived next day, although I don't live far. I know you're across the country but all my medicine comes from god's country and takes 2 business days for delivery. If they cheap out, it could take more like 5.

Just tried out the included lavender potpourri (smells awesome!) on 220c for 15 minutes, and it's very nice if you inhale from about 2-3" away! Personal aromatherapy! Sublime!

The battery bar has gone down a tiny notch after about 2 sessions!

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