Any Downsides to the Vapcap? Anything you would change?

biohacker said:

And what about the pyrolysis and smoke?

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I think you can have a vapor/smoke mix with more or less "real" smoke in it depending on how high is the temperature. Sometimes I can just feel an hint of bad taste and have a dark brown avb with no visible signs of charring and sometimes the taste is so smoke like that I prefer to not inhale at all and just dump the load and proceed to have a fresh one to forget the disgusting flavor.

biohacker said:

And what about the pyrolysis and smoke?

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It's not about talking semantics ,but rather be as much precise as possible,
in what we say or write.

Pyrolysis actually is a form of non-oxidative combustion.
A combustion without flames or fire ,simply because there's not a oxidative reactant gas around,
i.e. like Oxygen.

"Pyrolysis is a thermochemical decomposition of organic material at elevated temperatures in the absence of oxygen (or any halogen). It involves the simultaneous change of chemical composition and physical phase, and is irreversible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis


So,achieving even a partial pyrolysis ,with a vape ,is probably out of question.

stardustsailor said:

So,achieving even a partial pyrolysis ,with a vape ,is probably out of question.

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Completely disagree here. But whatever, not going to argue about it, I guess all the fire science courses I took were a waste of time. I'm just a dumb fireman, but at least I can lift heavy things!

https://www.google.ca/search?q=pyro...sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=pyrolysis+cannabis

You may change your mind after doing some research. Key phrase "pyrolytic compounds".

biohacker said:

o I appreciate your feedback, more so than the ones that don't help or "know it all".

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HA!

Baron23 said:

HA!

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I wasn't referring to you mister! I very much value and appreciate your posts bro!

The charring issue is something I used to get, but I never get it now.

This was an issue for me with the 1st gen tips. With the second gen tips I never got charring (no combustion), but the flavor degraded quicker than the bowl was done, so the third hit tasted off. With the newest tips I do not get any charring if unless I overheat and combust. I used to agree 100% with Kellya86 when I had the 1st gen tip. With the new ones, charring is a nonissue unless you overpack or overheat.

I think a lot of the reason people have such bipolar experiences with the vapcap is because how quickly they have advanced. People who have early gen vapcaps are more likely to complain of flavor issues which VC has already fixed.

I also think that the "peudo combustion" people are talking about is only unique to the vapcap because of the way the airflow works. It's easy to combust, but the cherry often does not stay, so you get a charred flavor, and incomplete combustion. What I'm getting at is that if you had more open airflow, it would just seem like regular combustion. There's nothing unique about the vapcap that allows this other than the fact that you can adjust the temp, but you also rely on the click.

The way to avoid this is to stop relying on the click. Use the click to tell you when to stop, but don't rely on it to tell you to stop. If it seems like you've been heating too long, and it should have already clicked, stop heating and you probably will never combust.

I know all of my combustion in the VC has occurred from me heating too low on the cap, or missing the click.

Now I get more charring on the bottom of a solo stem than a VC bowl. I do make sure to tamp it down, so that the top of the bud isn't touching the cap.

Farid said:

It's easy to combust, but the cherry often does not stay, so you get a charred flavor, and incomplete combustion.

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What I remember from school is that Carbon Monoxide is created greatly from incomplete combustion.

"Fossil fuels contain carbon (C) and hydrogen (H). During complete combustion carbon and hydrogen combine with oxygen (O2) to produce carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O). During incomplete combustion part of the carbon is not completely oxidized producing soot or carbon monoxide (CO)."

So from this, it appears that incomplete combustion is even worse than CO2 and H2O? Regardless, for long term health, I don't even want to be close to this line.

I digress! Don't want to turn this into a discussion on the chemistry of combustion, although I feel that there are already threads from the past discussing this very thing in tremendous detail.

biohacker said:

What I remember from school is that Carbon Monoxide is created greatly from incomplete combustion.

"Fossil fuels contain carbon (C) and hydrogen (H). During complete combustion carbon and hydrogen combine with oxygen (O2) to produce carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O). During incomplete combustion part of the carbon is not completely oxidized producing soot or carbon monoxide (CO)."

So from this, it appears that incomplete combustion is even worse than CO2 and H2O? Regardless, for long term health, I don't even want to be close to this line.

I digress! Don't want to turn this into a discussion on the chemistry of combustion, although I feel that there are already threads from the past discussing this very thing in tremendous detail.

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Dammit @biohacker now I want to extract hits from the VC into a lung and quantify CO levels with a combustion analyzer to satisfy my curiosity.

I take a day off of the forum, and come back and the thread I created is simply POOF! GONE! VANISHED!

I thought it might be closed down, but deleted too?

Mods?

biohacker said:

I take a day off of the forum, and come back and the thread I created is simply POOF! GONE! VANISHED!

I thought it might be closed down, but deleted too?

Mods?

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It's because they're out to get you!

Between that and the Mandela Effect thread i'm starting to really trip balls here!

biohacker said:

Between that and the Mandela Effect thread i'm starting to really trip balls here!

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Pretty sure it's not the "Thread" ..... unless that's some new slang term and I didn't pick up what your puttin down

Huh. It is gone. Not in ABV or anything. I went to the "your content" page to look through my recent posts and it's like my post never even existed... Weird...

Maybe your thread never existed in the first place and we're all just experiencing the Mandela Effect firsthand...

I hope this reality is better than the last one I remember....

What thread? What effect? Closed? Forum?

My best guess is that it was accidentally merged into another thread by someone who didn't have their coffee yet.

I'm going to try to pick out the posts and put Humpty together again. It's a complicated procedure so no guarantees.

Edit: The procedure appears to have been successful. I've merged your new thread (this thread) into the the old thread (now also this thread). Case closed. Or is it?

Farid said:

I also think that the "peudo combustion" people are talking about is only unique to the vapcap because of the way the airflow works.

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I don't think so, in my experience you can get the same thing with a device like the Vapman (small bowl, mostly conduction).

vtac said:

What thread? What effect? Closed? Forum?

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vtac said:

Edit: The procedure appears to have been successful. I've merged your new thread (this thread) into the the old thread (now also this thread). Case closed. Or is it?

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I think it must have been more than just not having morning coffee!

Mandella!!!

Thanks for bringing this thread back to earth....or wherever the hell we all are!

biohacker said:

What I remember from school is that Carbon Monoxide is created greatly from incomplete combustion.

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Yes, it is, but what I mean to say is that incomplete combustion is still a result of user error. It's just harder to differentiate between incomplete combustion and vaping since it's not as obvious. So if a user is getting incomplete combustion regularly they might think that's just how the VC vapor profile is. I find that with experience that charring goes away quickly.

That said, the VC still takes technique. The click just makes it easier not to combust but with any butane vape, combustion is only controlled by your flame usage.

Everyone and his brother is pissing and moaning about draw restriction on the vc. What is it, you want the good stuff to jump out of the herb and jump in your lungs? If you don't like the draw get a straw, buy a bong, roll a joint.
If you don't have "draw restriction", (dr) you don't have vacuum. You introduce vacuum you lower the boiling point of the load in the bowl. Yes boiling point.
If you heat something it releases the vapors which sits on the surface of the load. Lower the pressure and the boiling point is lowered. The hot vapor gets excited starts jumping around and heads to your lungs.
Stop and think about this you expect two little metal tubes, to automatically remove the vapor from the herb and place it, (without any effort on your part), in your lungs.
THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH. Quit looking for one.
Quit over thinking so much. Go back to shaking, and stirring, and scraping, and charging batteries, and plugging into the wall, and what ever else you do.
Please, quit trying to piss on my parade. I really don't give a s__t whether you like the VapCap or not. I like it. It works for me. And you don't. Doc

I'll throw in my two cents...

I just bought a Vapcap M, mostly due to the hype (particularly on the Vaporents Sub at Reddit). I figured for $50, even if the hype was only half real it's worth taking a chance.

When I got it, my biggest surprise was the draw resistance with the carb closed. If I'd known what the draw resistance was going to be like, I probably wouldn't have bought it. That said, I'm not going to give up on it. I'm still very much in the learning phase, but working on mouth pulls, partially closed carb and carb feathering to get the benefits without the frustration. And I'm definitely making progress each time I use it. But yeah, carb closed is like golf ball through a coffee stirrer; carb open is virtually no resistance, but how much vapor can you really get like this?

When I first got it, the torch I was using was a single-flame Ronson JetLite. These lighters have surprisingly good reviews on cigar forums, and with the Ebay bucks I had, I got mine for less than $3 shipped and pre-filled. The lighter itself seems OK, but with one smallish flame, it takes a good 15 seconds or so to get the Vapcap to click. I found my VC results with this lighter to be consistent with a lot of what I was reading: first heating session has tasty but fairly weak vapor; second session is where it's at; third is decent; forth and beyond is diminishing returns and not-too-great of flavor.

As a sufferer of first-world problems where I deemed 15 seconds too long to wait on the click, I ordered a JetLine New York triple torch lighter. I used it with the M for the first time last night. Night and day difference! First off, the click comes in a single-digit number of seconds now. And my first heat cycle session was the crazy one; second was pretty similar to the first; and my third didn't have much left; and after that it seemed pretty well spent. I'm certain I did not combust, but my ABV was coffee-ground dark, quite a bit darker than anything I've produced with the M or my daily driver Underdog.

So, even though I'm still in the learning phase, and still making improvements to my technique, I'm happy with the product. I don't see it becoming my daily driver any time soon; I'm pretty sure I'll stick with log vapes for the long run. However, it does meet my overall expectations for what I wanted when I decided to purchase it: something that is truly on demand. Log vapes can be on-demand if you leave them plugged in all the time. But I don't vape every day (and have little ones running around) so only plug in my Underdog when I want to use it. It takes a good 15-20 minutes to get to an "equilibrium" heat state. Normally not a problem for me. But every so often I decide I want to vape later in the night when I don't have 15 minutes to wait on the dog to heat up (more first world problems, right?). Also, the Vapcap makes for a nice alternative "new toy" to play with to change things up from time to time.

I will say: though I'm sure my Vapcap technique is far from great (at this point), it's definitely at a serviceable state. And the fact that I can get the effects I want with two or three heat cycles from one load---to me that speaks to the VC's vapor quality and efficiency. I don't believe it's as efficient as a log vape, but it's on par with the Arizer Air's efficiency.

Several months ago when I transitioned from the Arizer Air to log vapes, I realized I'm not really into session vapes (such as the Air). I like the "one-two punch knockout" style of log vapes or now the Vapcap. At least when it comes to vaping, I prefer "shots" to "beers".

And that's what really impresses me about the Vapcap, and where I suspect some of the hype comes from. For $50, I have something small, simple, and rugged, and I do think it delivers well beyond its price.

So my TL;DR is this: I don't think it's a top-tier vape; however, for the price and size, the vapor quality is amazing. Silver-medal vapor at a runner-up price.

I'm curious if the titanium Omni models are worth the 3x (or more) increase in price? I've seen several people say yes---supposedly much better carb-closed airflow, and the ability to lock-in the carb at the sweet spot. Despite my overall positive take on the VC, I'm not sure I'm (yet) willing to spend $150 to find out.

Lastly: though I haven't taken advantage of this feature, I like that I can use any heat source with the VC. Many years ago I was an avid camper, and I'm hoping to get back into that hobby soon. While I could get a big old battery pack for my UD, I can confidently say I don't want to deal with the bulk and weight. I think the VC absolutely dominates for someone concerned about size and weight issues for camping and hiking. Save butane and use a burning stick from the campfire to heat the VC, with the click taking out the guesswork.

Only had it for more than a week and read posts trying to improve things. Modded and tried some condenser ring tricks. Came up with a SS screen to try out, etc. Still consider myself a second class scout as far as using the torch.

There is more conduction and possible scorching and initial combustion that can occur when the materials are closer to the cap. I share @kellya86 's concerns with materials that are used and can taste metal when I was still struggling to get with it. Now I can inhale a fog of vapor and not know it until I exhale. That is the condenser fooling me from detecting any heat and my iron lung draws.

I have fumbled with the rings but a little lubricant of any type will work. The indentations in the condenser help, but any other solution requires more machining of the parts.

A better carb hole or even a ridge to make the hole easier to find by feel. There could be more refinement of the un-carbed air path to alleviate the hard to pull air flow. I do think there is a lot of engineering behind the dimension and size of the parts to get the most efficiency.

Oh and my cap tends to fall off more. But I'm also playing with it more. If I bump it too hard, the tip will fall off and I've had to clean it and fiddle with it to help it stay on better.


When I get even more familiar with my 'M', I'll list more.

invertedisdead said:

It doesn't feel anything like the Air to me. I think more people should try using it without covering the carb. You can see in my clip above huge vapor immediately pouring out without that draw restriction.

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Played around with my OG again today and it is not as restricted as I thought. But it has to sit super low in the 14mm female joint to seal. Almost too low to use the carb but I can manage it. So I think it was more leaking air than restricted. But with a water piece (miniElvis) it gets great clouds but only with the carb closed. Finger off the carb and I get nothing in water. And through this minimal diffusion I still find it on the harsh side compared to my other vapes.
I will have to try it in a 14mm male and see if it fits better

Dynalowrider said:

Everyone and his brother is pissing and moaning about draw restriction on the vc. What is it, you want the good stuff to jump out of the herb and jump in your lungs? If you don't like the draw get a straw, buy a bong, roll a joint.
If you don't have "draw restriction", (dr) you don't have vacuum. You introduce vacuum you lower the boiling point of the load in the bowl. Yes boiling point.
If you heat something it releases the vapors which sits on the surface of the load. Lower the pressure and the boiling point is lowered. The hot vapor gets excited starts jumping around and heads to your lungs.
Stop and think about this you expect two little metal tubes, to automatically remove the vapor from the herb and place it, (without any effort on your part), in your lungs.
THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH. Quit looking for one.
Quit over thinking so much. Go back to shaking, and stirring, and scraping, and charging batteries, and plugging into the wall, and what ever else you do.
Please, quit trying to piss on my parade. I really don't give a s__t whether you like the VapCap or not. I like it. It works for me. And you don't. Doc

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Umm, you're in the wrong thread here Doc Fish out of water in this thread, and I think I wouldn't be alone here in thinking that you're trolling. Please don't piss on my parade of this thread, you know what the title is.

Thanks to everyone else for their contributions.

A laser. I want the nextgen VapCap to have a built in laser.

Dynalowrider said:

Everyone and his brother is pissing and moaning about draw restriction on the vc. What is it, you want the good stuff to jump out of the herb and jump in your lungs? If you don't like the draw get a straw, buy a bong, roll a joint.
If you don't have "draw restriction", (dr) you don't have vacuum. You introduce vacuum you lower the boiling point of the load in the bowl. Yes boiling point.
If you heat something it releases the vapors which sits on the surface of the load. Lower the pressure and the boiling point is lowered. The hot vapor gets excited starts jumping around and heads to your lungs.
Stop and think about this you expect two little metal tubes, to automatically remove the vapor from the herb and place it, (without any effort on your part), in your lungs.
THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH. Quit looking for one.
Quit over thinking so much. Go back to shaking, and stirring, and scraping, and charging batteries, and plugging into the wall, and what ever else you do.
Please, quit trying to piss on my parade. I really don't give a s__t whether you like the VapCap or not. I like it. It works for me. And you don't. Doc

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I really don't think anyone here is trying to piss on your parade doc & I'm sorry you feel like that. No one has said anything bad about the Vapcap & almost everyone who has posted here seems to like it. I feel this thread is just a discussion on whether or not this vaporizer suits our needs.

Personally I find using a vaporizer with highly restricted air flow uncomfortable difficult & also time consuming, but I do know that it is physically impossible for some people to use a vape with tight draw restriction.

As I posted on this thread before I like the concept of the Vapcap but had a few issues with it one of them being draw restriction. I was looking forward to trying a later model to see if this has improved or not so I find it interesting & helpful that you've pointed out that this vape with it's two little metal tubes (one of mine is timber) requires that tight draw restriction to actually function.

I agree with you that there's no such thing as a free lunch. I don't think anyone expects one that's why we all happily paid for our VapCaps but as most people here are non smokers rolling a joint or hitting a bong isn't an option for us.
I do have several plug in vapes & a butane powered one that extract quickly & completely with very little effort required on my part.
I'm not sure if you are aware but not all vaporizers require vampire like sucking to extract the goodness from your herb & some people tend to avoid the ones that do.
Thanks for your post trying to explain the reason for the tight draw restriction of the Vapcap.