Because it fullfills a critical market point of per degree heating, replaceable batteries and low cost? I can buy 3 Alternates for the same cost as an Arizer Air or similar. Sure its not my only vape nor daily driver but you can't deny people's attraction to it.
Multi-brand Vivant Alternate
- Thread starter blackbur
- Start date
Because it fullfills a critical market point of per degree heating, replaceable batteries and low cost? I can buy 3 Alternates for the same cost as an Arizer Air or similar. Sure its not my only vape nor daily driver but you can't deny people's attraction to it.
Maryanna
Well-Known Member
I agree with you. Sadly, I'm not using my Alternate anymore because I care about health issues: vaporizers avoid combustion and health problems, that's the reason why I stopped smoking joints.
Breathing plastic gasses may be even worse than combustion, I guess.
I'm using my XMax V2 again.... which is not as good as the Alternate, but I don't wanna face serious risks.
My Vivant just cracked, does not smell plastic... but who knows what could happen?
Anyway, I think they should sell new caps ASAP. Mine came from China, so that's the only way I could use it again would be a new cap!
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Chocu1a
Well-Known Member
Ok, so it's about price vs performance, but not safety? For less than the Alternate's retail price, I can get an Odin, Flowermate, Focus, Alfa Gobloof, or Xmax, some with removable battery, some with adjustable air flow, all solid performers and none of them melt. For the same retail price, I found 2 reputable sellers offering the Solo for $130, the same as Alternate retail price. Again, I agree the Alternate has a great price/performance, except for the health issue of inhaling melting plastic and cracking case/mouthpiece due to heat. That last part is a deal breaker. I tried the Alternate. I went through 2 melting mouthpieces and a cracked housing. I never exceeded 400 F, nor did I ever drop my unit.
I really hope that Vivant solves this problem, but I could not ever recommend using it as is, let alone, buying and hacking up a Crafty cooling unit. There are just too many working non-melty vapes out there. MADNESS!
gienkollo
Well-Known Member
it is everything folks looking for, it's great designed but poor/cheap made, others are most of times poor designed and decent/good made, i mean in my price range ~200$
Well, whats bad about modding things? i actually like it.
Meach
Well-Known Member
Most who have bought this unit are aware of of the hazard in the MP...and are banking on @Vivant making good on the cooling unit. It hits so many features in a solid price point..just needs the proper fix and it could potentially be the best vape under $150 if everything gets worked out..until then we got our awesome modders making this unit useable while we wait for the manufacturer to get things right..
DarkSm0ke
Well-Known Member
Just got my Alternate a few minutes ago... thank you @Vivant !
The packaging is very nice, plus got the extra 420 sale mouth piece and accessory kit.
Yes I can smell the plastic robot fart smell others have commented on, but it seems to be coming from the glue from the foam packaging. the unit itself smells a bit, but I think that is from the packaging material and being in the same box for many weeks or months? We had the same problem with Fire Fly 2 box. Mostly everyone's units smelled. for the FF 2, I just left my unit out with the lid off for like 3 days away from the box and it went away. Going to try and do the same thing with the alternate.
As for the cooling unit melting, I have a crafty and extra cooling units so I may try and mod one of those like @dtaxx did already (thanks bro), or just wait it out for @Vivant to send out new material mouthpieces. I am sure they will take care of all of us here that bought through legitimate sources.
The packaging is very nice, plus got the extra 420 sale mouth piece and accessory kit.
Yes I can smell the plastic robot fart smell others have commented on, but it seems to be coming from the glue from the foam packaging. the unit itself smells a bit, but I think that is from the packaging material and being in the same box for many weeks or months? We had the same problem with Fire Fly 2 box. Mostly everyone's units smelled. for the FF 2, I just left my unit out with the lid off for like 3 days away from the box and it went away. Going to try and do the same thing with the alternate.
As for the cooling unit melting, I have a crafty and extra cooling units so I may try and mod one of those like @dtaxx did already (thanks bro), or just wait it out for @Vivant to send out new material mouthpieces. I am sure they will take care of all of us here that bought through legitimate sources.
Gardenerjeff
Author, Teaming Series of Organic Grow Books
I am waiting rather than using....I am pretty sure that the Vivant folks understand being on the top of the FC list is tops for selling units, but being tops on the list for having a defect which calls into question safety is a sure way for people to move on and for sales to crash. New units come up every day and there are some very similar ones out there.
So, I am sure they are on it! Another week of badmouthing, even with a terrific mod, will not be good. I have confidence they know this.
And, those of us that purchased from reputable dealers are in good shape nonetheless.
Teaming,
gardenerjeff
So, I am sure they are on it! Another week of badmouthing, even with a terrific mod, will not be good. I have confidence they know this.
And, those of us that purchased from reputable dealers are in good shape nonetheless.
Teaming,
gardenerjeff
StonerSloth
cui bono?
I definitely hear what you are saying and I largely agree with you. I was staying a mile away from this vape due to the melting mouthpieces. Burning plastic contains dioxins and other carcinogens that you should definitely not inhale under any circumstances.
As far as we can tell (correct me if I am wrong) - the airpath is isolated, the bowl is ceramic, the heating element is ceramic, the screen is stainless, the o-ring is silicone, and the funnel material above the bowl is a heat-safe plastic of sorts. It seems to me that the only safety concern is the mouthpiece, which we can now replace with the extremely well-designed and well-built and guaranteed heat-safe Crafty CU. There may be durability concerns with the exterior plastic but I'm not worried about those for such a cheap vape. If the outside gets scratched or cracked, so what?
This vape checks a lot of boxes and seems to have a lot of fans out there on the internet - so I wanted to form my own opinion for the relatively low buy-in of $75 + $17 for the CU.
I am definitely surprised that this fiasco has gone on this long - clearly Vivant could have had a new CU redesigned and built in a new high-temp plastic by now, but it seems they are more interested in moving old stock. That might make sense in a strictly economic sense, but it's definitely bad for business in the long term.
I'm actually considering taking a temp-controlled soldering iron to my Alternate to find out the real-world heat rating of these materials...........
BuddingMagic
Well-Known Member
I've officially had four (4, count em') cooling devices crack or melt, I have cracks under my cooling unit, and one down the USB port.
I'm about fed up. How can @Vivant continue to sell these (and at a 42% discount on 4/20 no less) when those who paid full price continue to deal with a self destructing vape?
I realize that both Vivant and Puffitup have been very generous in sending me 3 replacement cooling units, but when they all fail, when we have no answers, no insight, and no ETA for a true solution, it's bad.
The scariest part of all is that there have been no direct responses to recent inquiries into the safety of using the unit at all. I obviously don't have the entire story here, but this sounds like capitalism at its worst: money with no regard to the safety of the consumer. At its best, six (6 since my first cooling unit cracked) weeks with no actual information on what the issue is or how it might be solved is absurd.
I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I've emailed Emily with @Vivant with my concerns and asking her what she'd do if she were in my position.
Please @Vivant, answer the question: Does Vivant feel this device is safe to use as is with melting and cracking cooling units? If so, how did you arrive to that conclusion? If not, why are these still being sold?
I'm about fed up. How can @Vivant continue to sell these (and at a 42% discount on 4/20 no less) when those who paid full price continue to deal with a self destructing vape?
I realize that both Vivant and Puffitup have been very generous in sending me 3 replacement cooling units, but when they all fail, when we have no answers, no insight, and no ETA for a true solution, it's bad.
The scariest part of all is that there have been no direct responses to recent inquiries into the safety of using the unit at all. I obviously don't have the entire story here, but this sounds like capitalism at its worst: money with no regard to the safety of the consumer. At its best, six (6 since my first cooling unit cracked) weeks with no actual information on what the issue is or how it might be solved is absurd.
I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I've emailed Emily with @Vivant with my concerns and asking her what she'd do if she were in my position.
Please @Vivant, answer the question: Does Vivant feel this device is safe to use as is with melting and cracking cooling units? If so, how did you arrive to that conclusion? If not, why are these still being sold?
Fat Freddy
FUCK CANCER TOO !
Two of the most common reasons for a new business to fail are 1.) under-capitalization, and 2.) over forecasting sales.
Combine that with a defective product and all too frequently the creditors, and lastly the customers, end up holding the financial bag.
I suspect that's what we've seen unfold over the past couple of months with @Vivant.
We should remember that a U.S. operation that contracts with an offshore manufacturer (Chinese in this case) too often has little leverage in holding them accountable should they be responsible for a production defect. I suppose this is a hard-earned lesson for those of us who really wanted to trust Vivant.
Of course, we currently don't know which party holds the largest share of accountability in this situation, but I would not be surprised to learn that the delay in taking care of these issues has had everything to do with each party arguing that the other is to blame.
So where are things headed quite possibly?
Combine that with a defective product and all too frequently the creditors, and lastly the customers, end up holding the financial bag.
I suspect that's what we've seen unfold over the past couple of months with @Vivant.
We should remember that a U.S. operation that contracts with an offshore manufacturer (Chinese in this case) too often has little leverage in holding them accountable should they be responsible for a production defect. I suppose this is a hard-earned lesson for those of us who really wanted to trust Vivant.
Of course, we currently don't know which party holds the largest share of accountability in this situation, but I would not be surprised to learn that the delay in taking care of these issues has had everything to do with each party arguing that the other is to blame.
So where are things headed quite possibly?
subway13029
Well-Known Member
I have been borrowing one of these and run single 4 minute sessions at 420 and have noticed where the screen sits start to get a little "rough" maybe precursor to melting but I'm of the belief that it's because of how hot the battery gets in this thing. This vape gets hot to the touch, probably the hottest of all my previous vapes even the stainless grasshopper and this thing is plastic so that's a issue if you ask me. But I've never done a back to back due to how hot it gets.
Baked-not-fried
riding the Cannabreak train...
Well, I did so want to love this Alternate for longer than I did. With not being able to pick up a Crafty CU to mod it up right away and the lack of replies from Vivant here, I'm enjoying my Air more than ever. 
I can't even justify using the Alternate until I get that CCU, which I will, because like I said, I want to love it. I'm really keepin' my hopes up for a happy ending(don't we all), but it's almost feeling like the 420 sale Vivant had was more like a dump and run fire sale.
Anywho, high hopes...
D
I can't even justify using the Alternate until I get that CCU, which I will, because like I said, I want to love it. I'm really keepin' my hopes up for a happy ending(don't we all), but it's almost feeling like the 420 sale Vivant had was more like a dump and run fire sale. Anywho, high hopes...D
HSIHP
Well-Known Member
Got my replacement unit from a puffitup today and after few burnoffs I think I'll just let it sit. I hope the company comes through with a good replacement cooling unit, I don't plan on buying a crafty mp and I still believe this thing could be great. Ill see how this situation is addressed by Vivant before passing the final judgement on this thing.
mash
Well-Known Member
I still hope there are users out there that have a perfectly fine Alternate.... I still want to believe it's a batch issue.
That being said... its concerning with the lack of response from @Vivant on the progress on the fix... etc
I ordered the 420 deal also... and also ordered a crafty CU from a Canadian supplier.... Seems like the mod isn't very difficult and if the result is a great performing vape..... then Im pretty happy
Wondering for those with the mod done.... how is the heat on the CU...?
That being said... its concerning with the lack of response from @Vivant on the progress on the fix... etc
I ordered the 420 deal also... and also ordered a crafty CU from a Canadian supplier.... Seems like the mod isn't very difficult and if the result is a great performing vape..... then Im pretty happy
Wondering for those with the mod done.... how is the heat on the CU...?
Razshiro
Well-Known Member
I still hope there are users out there that have a perfectly fine Alternate.... I still want to believe it's a batch issue.
That being said... its concerning with the lack of response from @Vivant on the progress on the fix... etc
I ordered the 420 deal also... and also ordered a crafty CU from a Canadian supplier.... Seems like the mod isn't very difficult and if the result is a great performing vape..... then Im pretty happy
Wondering for those with the mod done.... how is the heat on the CU...?
I don't think it's a batch issue, i've tried severals mouthpiece and all melting (for me) where the screen sit (like subway13029 said)... I don't use my vivant until @Vivant say it's safe to use (even with the Crafty CU^^) !! WE WANT AN ANSWER: Is it safe to use even with a Crafty CU ?????!!!!!!
Almost zero heat for me on the Crafty CU( used at 195°C), CU do the job so well and the alternate bowl is smaller than Crafty so for me the session are shorter (=less heat than Crafty). If you 've tried Crafty or Mighty unit you know what i'm talking about !!
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duff
Well worn
Been watching this thread for a while.
Ironic that the Crafty MP fits since all of the Chinese knockoff are clones of the Crafty.
I'm so sick of these "American" companies rebranding the Chinese knockoffs and calling it theirs. It's total BS and a money grab.
Be careful folks. @Vivant has been silent for a reason.
Ironic that the Crafty MP fits since all of the Chinese knockoff are clones of the Crafty.
I'm so sick of these "American" companies rebranding the Chinese knockoffs and calling it theirs. It's total BS and a money grab.
Be careful folks. @Vivant has been silent for a reason.
elykpeace
exVASted
@Vivant ?? What's the deal... Are you still going with "a batch" being the problem. Materials used can't handle the high temps for prolonged use. I would consider the whole product defective. You don't go out and buy a new door for your oven if its causing problems. You drag it out to the end of the street and allow the garbage man to take it because it's TRASH ..
the silence is.. well.. disheartening. how long does it take to craft up a statement saying what the problem is, and what they're doing to fix it.
i understand that they want to be proper and issue the correct information and not have to backtrack or anything, but the silence, at this point is just as harmful.
or should everyone just go buy a competitors mouthpiece to fix it
@Vivant got any answers for us?
i understand that they want to be proper and issue the correct information and not have to backtrack or anything, but the silence, at this point is just as harmful.
or should everyone just go buy a competitors mouthpiece to fix it
@Vivant got any answers for us?
Well, I received my 420 sale Alternate yesterday, and surprisingly, this seems to be one of the "good" ones. I had returned my first one to PIU and wasn't intending to repurchase until the top cap issue was resolved, and I am a loyal PIU customer. But Vivant's 420 sale was too good to pass up, esp. now that we know my suggested mod works. Thanks and kudos to @dtaxx for being the first to actually do it! Let's hear it for community!
Not too much plastic smell with this one, beyond the normal new-vape smell, and I am pretty sensitive to these things. Definitely better than the first one I got. Did 5, one minute burn offs and tried a few bowls. Lovely. So maybe it actually is a batch issue..
I've used it a few times, always below 380--my usual preferred temp range anyway. I check the condition of the mouthpiece after every bowl. So far so good, but time will tell. I'm gonna be cautious with it till I get the Crafty CU in the mail and then turn it into a Crafternate....
I agree Vivant's recent absence here is distressing. On the other hand, Emily has probably said all there is to say until there is more info the company wants to release. I'm not quite ready to completely write them off yet.
Not too much plastic smell with this one, beyond the normal new-vape smell, and I am pretty sensitive to these things. Definitely better than the first one I got. Did 5, one minute burn offs and tried a few bowls. Lovely. So maybe it actually is a batch issue..
I've used it a few times, always below 380--my usual preferred temp range anyway. I check the condition of the mouthpiece after every bowl. So far so good, but time will tell. I'm gonna be cautious with it till I get the Crafty CU in the mail and then turn it into a Crafternate....
I agree Vivant's recent absence here is distressing. On the other hand, Emily has probably said all there is to say until there is more info the company wants to release. I'm not quite ready to completely write them off yet.
DownWithTheDam
Member
Modnote: 3 back-to-back posts merged.
It's my understanding Vivant has already said they're evaluating different top cap materials. I'm under the impression they're expecting to have new top caps, with better plastic, in the next couple weeks. Vivant has only been silent for a couple business days. I don't think they're closing shop as others have suggested.
The 2 week time frame is wishful thinking based on something I heard. Vivant will be back to confirm the timing as soon as they get confirmation from the factory.
I had a chance to test a buddy's new Alternate. There was a smell coming from the oven right out of the box. As mentioned by others, the oven smell is very similar to the smell of the packing material in the box. The smell from the packing material is much stronger than the smell from the oven.
We ran some burn offs, and as expected, the smell is stronger when the oven is heated up. We ran about ten 1 minute sessions at temps between 375 - 428 F. There were no signs of melting or cracking plastic.
It's my understanding Vivant has already said they're evaluating different top cap materials. I'm under the impression they're expecting to have new top caps, with better plastic, in the next couple weeks. Vivant has only been silent for a couple business days. I don't think they're closing shop as others have suggested.
The 2 week time frame is wishful thinking based on something I heard. Vivant will be back to confirm the timing as soon as they get confirmation from the factory.
I had a chance to test a buddy's new Alternate. There was a smell coming from the oven right out of the box. As mentioned by others, the oven smell is very similar to the smell of the packing material in the box. The smell from the packing material is much stronger than the smell from the oven.
We ran some burn offs, and as expected, the smell is stronger when the oven is heated up. We ran about ten 1 minute sessions at temps between 375 - 428 F. There were no signs of melting or cracking plastic.
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DarkSm0ke
Well-Known Member
People should just chill out. To insinuate that the company is going bankrupt or just dumping old (bad?) stock is irresponsible and reckless. I for one would rather @Vivant be working on a solution than holding everyone's hand at FC. We aren't supposed to attack companies here on FC, and as to material safety for vapes, I understand there is a thread here already for that one.
Yeah Emily has been silent here for a couple of days, I guess we all got spoiled with daily visits here by her, but at the end of the day she has a job to do and whatever time she spends on here is not up to us to decide.
That being said, yes I am interested in a quick solution to the plastic problems but I have hope it will get resolved. Making design or material changes take time. My company deals with this on a daily basis. Takes about 5 days for air shipments just to get to us including customs. If you are having issues with your Alternate, I suggest just don't use it or PM Emily directly. If you don't have one and are complaining, well maybe you have bigger problems than the Alternate issue
. Just my 
, and I apologize for getting preachy.
Yeah Emily has been silent here for a couple of days, I guess we all got spoiled with daily visits here by her, but at the end of the day she has a job to do and whatever time she spends on here is not up to us to decide.
That being said, yes I am interested in a quick solution to the plastic problems but I have hope it will get resolved. Making design or material changes take time. My company deals with this on a daily basis. Takes about 5 days for air shipments just to get to us including customs. If you are having issues with your Alternate, I suggest just don't use it or PM Emily directly. If you don't have one and are complaining, well maybe you have bigger problems than the Alternate issue
. Just my , and I apologize for getting preachy.a couple business days.. they havent said anything about mouthpieces since almost 2 weeks ago.. their activity on the forums lately has been to push the units for 420 sale, despite the faulty top caps..
and thats the quote (in the post above), almost 2 weeks ago..
BaroneBarra
Well-Known Member
No, I don't think so.
There's one simple reason why I say that, and it's health risks.
I get that, if someone has 10 vapes to choose from, consumes herbs recreationally and has 120$ to throw down the toilet, they might not care about this all. You just wait for the company to make it right, one week or 2 months doesn't really matter.
On the other hand, I guess we all know there are people who vape because of pain relief, because of an illness, etc. Maybe those same people relied on this vape to give them the benefits they need.
I imagine a lot of people that bought this vape are not active on FC, nor on Reddit. Is Vivant sending them letters saying "ok so we had some melting of plastic, please be careful", "your vape might be unsafe, don't use it until we send you a replacement", "we don't know yet, but to be sure don't go above XXX°C"? What if between them there are people with respiratory problems? What if they don't realize their mouthpiece is melting and they're continuing to inhale plastic for the last few months?
Sorry for the long post, I don't respond well to others telling me to chill
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Fat Freddy
FUCK CANCER TOO !
Well, I think the dagger you've thrown, dripping with its self-righteous condescension, is indeed a two-edged blade! To dismiss the potential signs of a failing company is equally irresponsible and reckless. During my former career I spent a great deal of time working in M&A and the number one mantra for success in that area was, due diligence. Secondarily it was caveat emptor! A sycophantic, Pollyanna approach was ALWAYS a prescription for a failed M/A!
So while you're handing out the
perhaps you might take a couple yourself? 