VapCap 510 Heater Build (Based on "The Project")

I have been testing and seems to work but shorting does occur and you have to move the VC when it happens.
Had to insulate to top of positive bolt as well. It was causing real havoc.
Looking more like an inside insulator is needed. Looking into mica somehow.
Still a Work In Progress

On the Induction heat front.
Freakin Awesome News Here

Pipes said:

On the Induction heat front.
Freakin Awesome News Here

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That's great!

So, I finally built a coil to try things myself! Pipes was kind enough to include more than a few parts with the Eraser for me to play with and I am grateful for this.
This was my best result so far. Coil building like this is not easy let me tell you. Didn't look that hard in the vids and pics. A couple of jigs could make this easier for sure. I had to hold the Cuboid between my knees with the coil screwed in to be able to wind it. The end result is not as good as Pipe's of course but it's close.





I have managed to avoid shorts somehow with this last built, I think by luck mostly as it really depends at what exact points the cap is touching the wire. I am working with the SS wire at the moment as that was what Pipes kindly provided. I will try Kanthal as well. The main problem I see so far is the long heating time as the coil doesn't heat evenly I think. If you can see from the pics the coil cannot be winded perfectly and there are small gaps around the cap. Those gaps and the fact that the cap is touching the wire only here and there is why I think it doesn't short all the time but it also doesn't heat evenly. Air is a very good insulator unfortunately.
A flatter wire might do a better job but it could also short more.

I have been thinking of a very good solution to avoid shorts and make heating uniform but it needs a very special part that I don't know how to acquire yet. A small ceramic cylinder, thinnest possible one, friction fitted inside the coil. If the ceramic ring is thin enough it would heat up as fast as possible and would give the cap a more uniform heating and no shorts.
Then like Pipes did, a glass tube would be enough to cover everything and a silicon sleeve or preferably a mica tube over it to keep hot glass away from naked skin! I think mica tubes can be ordered at any dimensions and would be a better solution than silicone which tends to deteriorate with use. The mica tube could also possibly negate the need for a glass tube and could be used on its own.
I tried Shapeways for the ceramic ring but apparently they don't print that small objects. At least that's what I figured out while trying to send an order.
Any other ideas?

natural farmer said:

So, I finally built a coil to try things myself! Pipes was kind enough to include more than a few parts with the Eraser for me to play with and I am grateful for this.
This was my best result so far. Coil building like this is not easy let me tell you. Didn't look that hard in the vids and pics. A couple of jigs could make this easier for sure. I had to hold the Cuboid between my knees with the coil screwed in to be able to wind it. The end result is not as good as Pipe's of course but it's close.

I have managed to avoid shorts somehow with this last built, I think by luck mostly as it really depends at what exact points the cap is touching the wire. I am working with the SS wire at the moment as that was what Pipes kindly provided. I will try Kanthal as well. The main problem I see so far is the long heating time as the coil doesn't heat evenly I think. If you can see from the pics the coil cannot be winded perfectly and there are small gaps around the cap. Those gaps and the fact that the cap is touching the wire only here and there is why I think it doesn't short all the time but it also doesn't heat evenly. Air is a very good insulator unfortunately.
A flatter wire might do a better job but it could also short more.

I have been thinking of a very good solution to avoid shorts and make heating uniform but it needs a very special part that I don't know how to acquire yet. A small ceramic cylinder, thinnest possible one, friction fitted inside the coil. If the ceramic ring is thin enough it would heat up as fast as possible and would give the cap a more uniform heating and no shorts.
Then like Pipes did, a glass tube would be enough to cover everything and a silicon sleeve or preferably a mica tube over it to keep hot glass away from naked skin! I think mica tubes can be ordered at any dimensions and would be a better solution than silicone which tends to deteriorate with use. The mica tube could also possibly negate the need for a glass tube and could be used on its own.
I tried Shapeways for the ceramic ring but apparently they don't print that small objects. At least that's what I figured out while trying to send an order.
Any other ideas?

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You could try to form an oxide layer on the surface of your coil by getting it nice and hot and plunging it into e-cig PG liquid (or just glycerin?).

This should form a black oxide layer on the SS which will certainly help reduce shorting when in contact with the cap, and might even eliminate it?

You may need to repeat the process a few times to get a thick enough layer.

I've done this with SS 'wicks' for e-cig coils and it has worked quite well.

Good luck!

natural farmer said:

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What are those wood bodies beside the Eraser on the background?

Copacetic said:

You could try to form an oxide layer on the surface of your coil by getting it nice and hot and plunging it into e-cig PG liquid (or just glycerin?).

This should form a black oxide layer on the SS which will certainly help reduce shorting when in contact with the cap, and might even eliminate it?

You may need to repeat the process a few times to get a thick enough layer.

I've done this with SS 'wicks' for e-cig coils and it has worked quite well.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

I will certainly try this! Not sure though about the SS. Maybe it can't get hot enough. I don't seem able to make it glow bright. Maybe I shouldn't. Kanthal might be next.

Best solution would be the ceramic ring though.

Joaon said:

What are those wood bodies beside the Eraser on the background?

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Those are a couple of turned wood pieces Pipes sent me to possibly be used as a sleeve for Project. Or the heater?

EDIT: Making it glow wasn't that hard after all! I was running the Cuboid in TC...
I switched to power mode and 50W were more than enough to make it glow fairly quickly and now click comes a lot faster. But I have to pulse or... I am actually afraid not to pulse. The teflon piece/washer in the heater will sure melt at some point...

You will find one contact point will be the top of the bolt supporting the VC. It is the positive side of voltage.
I will cause some marks on the bottom of your cap. As does the coil when it touches the coils, but not as bad.
What I did, was apply a very small dab of JB-Weld, maybe 1/2 a drop, to the top of the bolt. Just enough to sit on the top without dripping down the threaded part.
Yepper, that nylon insulator is an Achilles heal for sure. You can see why I keep searching for a more durable replacement. Nevertheless, your element is far enough above the insulator that it can take quite a bit of heat. My earlier Projects had the winding start lower which made this more problematic.
I like the mica idea to insulate the coil.

Tried furnace cement which failed horribly. Ended up taking too much power to get it going. Also, took a lot of time waiting for layers to cure before building up more. Oh well, never know unless you try it. This was about 3 layers in of 5-6 layers. Followed with sanding. Sorry, did not take any pics after this one. Ugly at this point. Sanded up nice though.


Keep on experimenting @natural farmer, just takes one eureka moment and it all will come together. That's the satisfaction factor.

Pipes said:

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Is that the coil under the cement???

Have you tried making an oxide layer as mentioned above?

Pipes said:

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Looks like you're about to deep fry it!

Does look like corn dog batter.

Yes, the coil is in there. Just for fun, here's what the end result looked like before I pulled the plug on the idea. Too much power and took much too long to heat up. A way too much bulk.

Pipes said:

Does look like corn dog batter.

Yes, the coil is in there. Just for fun, here's what the end result looked like before I pulled the plug on the idea. Too much power and took much too long to heat up. A way too much bulk.

Click to expand...

Nice little furnace buddy! I wonder if a small bread can be baked in there! I am doing some reading on the Bulli thread and I just saw you have tried this hi-temp cement again with not much luck. But do you think it might be possible to make a thin cylindrical ring out of it to be pressure fitted inside the coil, you know instead of a ceramic... Should be tricky to make a thin ring, no?
And a question: How long can I hold the power on with my built above? I pulse every second or two maybe... Can I hold the power for 6-8 seconds with no risk of coil damage (will have to see if teflon holds for that long as well) while it glows bright hot. Are 50W too much maybe? Should I go down to 5-10W maybe. More time to reach glow but maybe it's healthier?

Naw, it's hard in a large chunk but fragile in a thin layer. And messy as hell.

It can take a really bright glow for a few seconds with no problem, from a cold start. The problem is the "from a cold start" part. When experimenting we tend to repeat pushing it's limits again right away without any cool down. It's not so much the radiant heat that gets to the nylon insulator, but rather the build up in the whole device including the nut, bolt and washers. Once they hit a certain temperature the insulator softens making the connection weak. I found you can get away with this happening a couple times by just tightening it back up. Of course if continuing experimenting, you'll hit a point to replace it.
You have to push till it breaks to learn how far it can go. Easy fix, so let er rip. Note the numbers and you can calculate in a safety margin and go from there. I guess the goal being to hit around a consistent 5 second click kind of thing?
Still have to insulate the coil somehow. Oxidizing would would but would still give little intermittent shorts when the VC is rubbing against it. Would certainly minimize it but we need to eliminate it. The mica would be good if it could be bent around to form a cylinder but suspect it would crack. Brittle stuff, almost impossible to cut without it shattering too.
I'm running low on ideas here. Is there anything that the coil can be dipped into? Like a liquid glass kind of thing. At least it not in a vapor path....lol.

I contacted a few Asian factories through Alibaba and got some specs on their Alumina Ceramic rings. Not sure how to interpret them though. We need a ceramic material that heats up as fast as possible. They have AC with Al²O³ content of 85%, 95% and 99%. Their coefficient of thermal conductivity respectively is 18, 16 and 30 (W/m °K). Which one would heat up faster?

It would be sweet if liquid glass to dip the coil was possible right? For Erasers as well... Better taste?

EDIT: Well well well! This morning brought some nice ideas and voilà!



I managed to have a click in the 10sec cut-off more or less. At which point the teflon insulator started burning and giving off smoke. I noticed it only got burnt where it was really close to the positive end of the wire. It was only half a mm away or less. So I added a slightly bigger washer between the top washer and the bolt. I guess it also acts as a minor heat sink as well but most importantly the positive end of the wire is further away from the insulator now and seems to hold fine until now. I only did a few heat ups so far so I am not sure how long it holds especially if I screw/unscrew it enough times... More testing needed but it looks good. No shorts whatsoever with this built. I try to move the VC around when inserted and haven't seen any short yet. Luck??? Maybe.... Maybe it's the obvious oxidation of the wire by now? I can see it on the surface of the wire with a naked eye in good light!
Anyway, I also fitted one of the glass tubes Pipes was kind enough to pack for me and although it's quite longer than necessary it works great at stabilising the VC as well as making the whole unit safer.
With normal use (a hit every few minutes) I think there is not enough heat to make this dangerous for the user or the mod box but an outer insulator would be much better for sure. Maybe I will try getting some silicone tubing and try it out. I have 1/2" tubing but is too tight of a fit. Can I find bigger tubing than 1/2" online? Planet Vape has only IP to 1/2"...

And unfortunately no herbs to check it out properly...

natural farmer said:

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A quick one on the mica insulator idea. Hope you all understand what I'm trying to say.
Looking at the coil above take a thin strip of thin mica, pass it down vertically into the coil thru the gap between the top two wires so it rests on the 510 adapter thingy, do this 2 more times equally space around the coil. The lower part of the coil would be insulated by the mica in 3 places so no contact and it should stay in place as it'll be under slight tension.
This should only leave the top part of the coil exposed, there may be enough mica to hold the VC off this part or if needed a small piece could be overlapped to cover the top part of the coil.
Weaving the thin strip will give the insulation needed and let the cap heat quicker than a full tube.
If you don't understand I'll try and mock something up later.

phattpiggie said:

A quick one on the mica insulator idea. Hope you all understand what I'm trying to say.
Looking at the coil above take a thin strip of thin mica, pass it down vertically into the coil thru the gap between the top two wires so it rests on the 510 adapter thingy, do this 2 more times equally space around the coil. The lower part of the coil would be insulated by the mica in 3 places so no contact and it should stay in place as it'll be under slight tension.
This should only leave the top part of the coil exposed, there may be enough mica to hold the VC off this part or if needed a small piece could be overlapped to cover the top part of the coil.
Weaving the thin strip will give the insulation needed and let the cap heat quicker than a full tube.
If you don't understand I'll try and mock something up later.

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I think I know what you are saying... Interesting idea, very interesting. I haven't had any serious shorts yet but maybe I am just lucky? Pipes had a lot! Where do I find thin mica stripes again? eBay?

natural farmer said:

I think I know what you are saying

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This is cardboard and my soldering iron station spring, you should be able to bend the spring so the mica sits in and will hold under tension. If needed then you could use a high temp. adhesive to add a small piece over the first part of the coil.
Ebay or a woodburner shop it's used for the windows in stoves and some gas boilers. I know your in Greece but having spent time in Κέρκυρα I know how cold it can get at night hence the woodburner shop.

phattpiggie said:

This is cardboard and my soldering iron station spring, you should be able to bend the spring so the mica sits in and will hold under tension. If needed then you could use a high temp. adhesive to add a small piece over the first part of the coil.
Ebay or a woodburner shop it's used for the windows in stoves and some gas boilers. I know your in Greece but having spent time in Κέρκυρα I know how cold it can get at night hence the woodburner shop.

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Yeap, that's what I thought from your description, I thought of thinner stripes though to maximize heating surface. It's a very smart idea man! At least it seems so! I will try get some locally then and try it.

This heater does consume a lot of energy so I wouldn't use it as the main Vapcap heater except if I was preoccupied about lighters. I know lots of people are and that's why flame powered vapes don't sell as well as electric ones although fire is a much more efficient heat source.
For me this heater will probably be used, as I said again, when outdoors and it's windy and the lighter doesn't cut it, when I need to be quiet in a house or next to my sleeping companion, when I need some stealth in a bar or cinema or similar scenario, if I am left without a lighter and maybe a few other scenarios. But some people might stay away from the Vapcap cause a flame is needed and I know how lots of folks feel about fire... This heater as well as the induction one Pipes is building can possibly make them think twice about getting one now.

It's fairly easy to built and this is an open project of course but again many people would prefer just to get one at the right price. I would if there was one available...

Sooo, I wonder if there is enough interest so I can order a few materials and tools and build some... Only a few people have shown interest so far.

I will do some more testing of course but it already looks like it is quite usable as is. I want to try the mica stripes @phattpiggie proposed and if there is enough interest I would gladly order some stuff and go for it. Otherwise I will just be happy to use my Vapcap more comfortably in more life scenarios!

I think a price of $25 + shipping (less than $10 with the Greek postal service and tracking worldwide and less for Europe) is fair and would justify my time building those and pay for the tools needed.

natural farmer said:

Sooo, I wonder if there is enough interest so I can order a few materials and tools and build some... Only a few people have shown interest so far.

I think a price of $25 + shipping (less than $10 with the Greek postal service and tracking worldwide and less for Europe) is fair and would justify my time building those and pay for the tools needed.

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I am in!

natural farmer said:

Sooo, I wonder if there is enough interest so I can order a few materials and tools and build some... Only a few people have shown interest so far.

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I am late...

But I'm ready...



Don't ask me how I done it without fixing it on the atomizer, I was drunk.
Gathering corks is a hard job indeed...

@Pipes @natural farmer Do you think this idea can marry a Vaponic..?
With some measures correction obviously... Anyway it seems that a Vaponic (outer diameter 12mm) can marry pretty well the Eraser, like the VapCap does but without O-rings? Could also be an interesting glass stem... will see... slipping off topic... bye-bye.

ander said:

@Pipes @natural farmer Do you think this idea can marry a Vaponic..?
With some measures correction obviously... Anyway it seems that a Vaponic (outer diameter 12mm) can marry pretty well the Eraser, like the VapCap does but without O-rings? Could also be an interesting glass stem... will see... slipping off topic... bye-bye.

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Actually, the Vaponic might be a better candidate at this point.... I have found that the coil marks the cap a lot. Some people might find this to be not important but I don't like it. Marking from the current at the tip of the cap can be avoided with a dot of epoxy high temp glue on the tip of the screw where it rests but markings from the coil are unavoidable. I was hoping to be able to source some cheap ceramic rings to try and fit inside the coil but after playing with the coil a lot I think it will prolong the heating even more if thick enough to be durable. Right now I am at 20 secs for the first click and 10 for the next couple ones if I don't let the cap cool down. Already long ... Also the glass can be omitted by finding mica tubing at the right size but right now I have other things to take care of. A move to another home, the garden as the weather started warming up and other stuff more pressing... Budget is limited as well so I can't really try a lot of stuff at the moment.
And I don't see much interest either. Not even others trying to make one. I guess people don't find it as practical? Who knows.... I hope I finish this one day though, the Vapcap is here to stay anyway! Hehe!

natural farmer said:

And I don't see much interest either.

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It's not much I know but I'M. And I plan to mix it with the cork concept... so thank you very much for your efforts! And good luck with your moving.

ander said:

Not enough maybe but I'M. And I plan to mix it with the cork concept... so thank you very much for your efforts! And good luck with your moving.

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Cork would make a great sleeve for the glass tube!!!

natural farmer said:

Cork would make a great sleeve for the glass tube!!!

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I was thinking about a SS tube of about 16mm (outer diameter 18mm) inside... better heat? And all things "sealed" with cork.